Re: What do you want to see SGI _do_ for hobbyists?

On Sun, 25 May 2003 16:35:43 -0700, Douglas Carmichael wrote:
[color=blue]
> After talking to some people within SGI, they said that they want to
> introduce a hobbyist program which would include such things as IRIX
> updates and development tools for free or a reasonable fee. (There
> would be a noncommercial use provision, though.)
>
> Also, hobbyists would be allowed to list their applications in the SGI
> Third-Party Applications Directory.
>
> But, they need support from the hobbyist community. I urge you to
> email either Anneke Dempsey (anneke@sgi.com) and/or Robert Green
> (green@sgi.com) and show your support for a program like this. BCC me
> at [email]dcarmich@ourservers.net[/email] as well.
>
> What would you want in a hobbyist program?[/color]

Right, well, there are a few things I'd like SGI to do:

1) Instead of laying off talented software/hardware engineers, try laying off
management (or at least lower their salaries) and/or sales people. Why?

* Management generally know nothing about the industries that they work
within and just end up forcing company's out of business because of their
lack of foresight, cutting costs in the wrong areas, forcing designers to
redesign hardware/software time after time until the cost is just too much
and projects get shelved, and their huge salaries, so everyone loses out. Bad
management costs all, look at Commodore for one and well, SGI in part for
another.

* Sales people only know the "gift of the gab" and are generally a pain
to talk to - when buying computer hw/sw I will *not* go through a sales
person as I tend to find out what I need (if I don't already know) - and
that way they won't try to force a ton of extra crap down my throat so I
end up spending more.

2) Get people to go through the IRIX source code and complete the hardware
documentation (and undocumented PROM features) for older machines so that
open source projects can develop fully fledged drivers for these machines
and continue to support SGI's excellent machines for longer. This way SGI
cannot any longer keep saying that somebody needs to volunteer for the job
or sign an NDA or nobody wants to do it, etc...Just assign a couple of
interns to do it. If I had got the job at SGI I would've volunteered for it.

I have an Indy and I'm currently playing with the hardware to get a feel for
it. You see, I wanted a decent MIPS target to develop an OS on (I will
develop for other platforms, but I wanted something a bit different to
start with), but there will come a time when I will not be able to go any
further because of the lack of documentation for the more advanced stuff,
like providing a GL layer, etc. I'm also looking at an O2 because it's
another completely different machine that will provide a proof of concept
of what I want to do. But, again, I will only be able to get so far.

3) Develop modular hardware. I disagree with some people that SGI
shouldn't provide lower cost hardware, they should; it just shouldn't look
cheap, like those Intel based SGI's.

By developing the hardware as modules that can be *put* together SGI can
open up the workstation market to hobbyists who are looking for more
modern machine than a 2nd hand SGI and it'll give them the chance to
upgrade at their own pace and not at an extortionate cost - yes I know
that the cost of SGI hardware includes support.

Hmmm, that'll probably do ;-)

Thanks,
Luke A. Guest.

On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 02:54:41 +0000, SkyWriter wrote:
[color=blue]
> have you been in management and know what they do? you might be suprised.[/color]

Nope, but I have had to deal with them, glorified sales people is what
they are. I would be surprised if they actually got off their arses and
did some work (and I don't mean in the pub).
[color=blue][color=green]
>> * Sales people only know the "gift of the gab" and are generally a pain
>> to talk to - when buying computer hw/sw I will *not* go through a sales
>> person as I tend to find out what I need (if I don't already know) - and
>> that way they won't try to force a ton of extra crap down my throat so I
>> end up spending more.[/color]
>
> there are 'direct' and 'channels' sales people which do you mean?
> even if you know what you want, do you want to pay full price?[/color]

Both. I have no interest in paying an extortionate rate for sales people,
they have their place, but it's the technical people who actually give
them their jobs.
[color=blue]
> IRIX source code is a licensed, intellectual property. you can't change that[/color]

No ****? I really thought that I'd make a difference ;-/
[color=blue]
> fact on usenet. besides all the good interns are on linux already (thank god).[/color]

They have only shown a commitment to the new machines, when they could be
showing just a little more interest in keeping their older platforms
relevant on Linux.
[color=blue]
> and why do single processor os developement, that's kids stuff.[/color]

I never said that did I? Did you actually read my post or just the first
few lines in which I hit a nerve (you are either sales or management)?
[color=blue][color=green]
>> 3) Develop modular hardware. I disagree with some people that SGI
>> shouldn't provide lower cost hardware, they should; it just shouldn't look
>> cheap, like those Intel based SGI's.[/color]
>
> oh my, 'modular' now there's a modern marketing buzword. here i through you were[/color]

No it isn't, "modular" is a programming/engineering term. A buzzword is
made up by management, like "downsizing," "refactoring" and other bull****.
[color=blue]
> a free thinker. btw, origin 2k-3k is modular.[/color]

I am a free thinker, I just think that SGI needs to get a grip on the
current industry rather than to produce custom hardware. they can still
produce custom hardware, but what's stopping them from producing graphics
options on PCI/PCI-X cards? they provide support for these cards, why not
produce options for them?
[color=blue][color=green]
>> By developing the hardware as modules that can be *put* together SGI can
>> open up the workstation market to hobbyists who are looking for more
>> modern machine than a 2nd hand SGI and it'll give them the chance to
>> upgrade at their own pace and not at an extortionate cost - yes I know
>> that the cost of SGI hardware includes support.[/color]
>
> buy a peecee.[/color]

I have a peecee and they are crap architectures, but if you actually have
competing companies producing machines, oh my god! There might actually be
competition! The HORROR!

BTW, I thought you were supposed to be technical and know what you're
talking about...
[color=blue]
> btw: I have yet to hear anything come out of this thread from sgi other than
> second
> hand assurances, which i rate slightly above Lukes opinion of sales people.[/color]

I obviously hit a nerve, oh well...I must be right then. ;-)

Luke.

"Luke A. Guest" wrote:
[color=blue]
> I obviously hit a nerve, oh well...I must be right then. ;-)
>
> Luke.[/color]

no Luke you're wrong, but I can't tell you that. you'll have to learn it for
yourself.