Editing DV-AVI on irix - SGI

This is a discussion on Editing DV-AVI on irix - SGI ; Hi, this is kinda relavent to both groups so please accept my appologies to cross posting. I started a thread about editing video on irix and htough it'd be of interest here too. Anyway to the point. I've got a ...

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Thread: Editing DV-AVI on irix

  1. Editing DV-AVI on irix

    Hi,
    this is kinda relavent to both groups so please accept my appologies to
    cross posting. I started a thread about editing video on irix and htough
    it'd be of interest here too.

    Anyway to the point. I've got a Cannon MV700 DV camera. I've got a load of
    video footave in DV-AVI format and I want to edit it. My PeeCee it a total
    waste of space. 256Mb ram and a poxey cpu with 4Gb of disk space left
    (20Gb in total) along with the worlds worst graphics card.

    I want to edit on my Octane as it's got loads more power in it. How can I
    edit DV-AVI files on irix or what format can I convert them to? mpeg2
    seems to butcher using 'TMPGEnc' and setting it to max quality.

    It's probably not worth converting it to uncompressed video as DV is
    already compressed so it would seem pointless. Or am I wrong? Would
    converting it to images be better?

    What format should I convert it to?

    I'll edit in Adobe Permier 7

    thanks for info.

    *********************
    Khalid Schofield
    System Administrator / EM Technician
    Dept. Of Materials
    University Of Oxford
    Parks Road
    Oxford
    OX1 3PH

    Email: khalid.schofield@materials.ox.ac.uk
    Tel: 01865 273785
    Fax: 01865 283333
    Web: http://www-em.materials.ox.ac.uk/peo...eld/index.html


  2. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    "Khalid Schofield" wrote:
    > I want to edit on my Octane as it's got loads more power in it. How can I
    > edit DV-AVI files on irix or what format can I convert them to?


    Well, it depends what app you want to use to edit them, and as you're aware
    your choice is a bit limited there.

    > mpeg2
    > seems to butcher using 'TMPGEnc' and setting it to max quality.


    Mmm, MPEG2 is really not suitable for editing unless you have your source
    footage compressed with it and you're desperate to avoid recompression...
    and even then you have to muck about making sure you're using only I frames
    and... just don't

    > It's probably not worth converting it to uncompressed video as DV is
    > already compressed so it would seem pointless. Or am I wrong? Would
    > converting it to images be better?


    If you have the storage, uncompressed is definitely easier all round. ISTR
    you getting some FC arrays a while back - if you can sustain 40 Mbytes/sec
    and have tens of Gbytes free, I'd go uncompressed. It'll have much less
    processor load than editing with some compressed format.

    > I'll edit in Adobe Permier 7


    On an Octane? That'd be a good trick...



  3. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    oops it's premier 4.2...... sorry for mistake

    yeh ok good idea. What format shall I convert it too then? What happens to
    the audio? mplayer will convert it to all jpeg images. Would I be better
    with all bmp images?

    *********************
    Khalid Schofield
    System Administrator / EM Technician
    Dept. Of Materials
    University Of Oxford
    Parks Road
    Oxford
    OX1 3PH

    Email: khalid.schofield@materials.ox.ac.uk
    Tel: 01865 273785
    Fax: 01865 283333
    Web: http://www-em.materials.ox.ac.uk/peo...eld/index.html


    On Tue, 15 Jun 2004, Lewis Saunders wrote:

    > "Khalid Schofield" wrote:
    > > I want to edit on my Octane as it's got loads more power in it. How can I
    > > edit DV-AVI files on irix or what format can I convert them to?

    >
    > Well, it depends what app you want to use to edit them, and as you're aware
    > your choice is a bit limited there.
    >
    > > mpeg2
    > > seems to butcher using 'TMPGEnc' and setting it to max quality.

    >
    > Mmm, MPEG2 is really not suitable for editing unless you have your source
    > footage compressed with it and you're desperate to avoid recompression...
    > and even then you have to muck about making sure you're using only I frames
    > and... just don't
    >
    > > It's probably not worth converting it to uncompressed video as DV is
    > > already compressed so it would seem pointless. Or am I wrong? Would
    > > converting it to images be better?

    >
    > If you have the storage, uncompressed is definitely easier all round. ISTR
    > you getting some FC arrays a while back - if you can sustain 40 Mbytes/sec
    > and have tens of Gbytes free, I'd go uncompressed. It'll have much less
    > processor load than editing with some compressed format.
    >
    > > I'll edit in Adobe Permier 7

    >
    > On an Octane? That'd be a good trick...
    >
    >
    >


  4. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    "Khalid Schofield" wrote:
    > yeh ok good idea. What format shall I convert it too then? What happens to
    > the audio? mplayer will convert it to all jpeg images. Would I be better
    > with all bmp images?


    I've never used Premiere (note trailing e) on IRIX, but I assume from
    screenshots that it's a straight port (I'm assuming it won't import DV AVIs
    otherwise you could just edit them as they are). You should be able to use
    mencoder to make raw AVI files with uncompressed PCM audio, which Premiere
    will like. I forget the options you have to give it, you may have problems
    with packings and depths - there are options for these, buried somewhere in
    man mplayer. Maybe Premiere will only take raw YUV, maybe only raw RGB, I
    have no idea.

    If that works you should be able to edit nicely, and play back in real time
    with no problems. If it doesn't you can import image sequences into
    Premiere, but it's a bit of a pain in the bum. Use mencoder, obviously an
    uncompressed format (BMP, TGA, SGI) or at least lossless (PNG) is best.



  5. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    thanks for the info

    I've found that the dv tools for linux allow capture of raw dv I'm also
    going to try AVI 1 and AVI 2 formats as IRIX nativly supports those too


    Oh man DV over IEEE1394 is a mess on linux. SuSE 9 is horrible. I'm
    getting firewire on my Octane or a shiny new G5 as soon as I have funds.

    Thanks for everyone's advise on this topic. I'm going to try to make a
    movie of the sun rise in the morning using my digital camera set at
    1600x1200 (far lower res that I normaly use it on) and take one pic (or
    frame as I'll be using it as) every few secs for 2 hours or more. Very
    high quality uncompressed video and none of this pal trash in sight

    I bet an SGI will kick ass doing that sorts of work.



    *********************
    Khalid Schofield
    System Administrator / EM Technician
    Dept. Of Materials
    University Of Oxford
    Parks Road
    Oxford
    OX1 3PH

    Email: khalid.schofield@materials.ox.ac.uk
    Tel: 01865 273785
    Fax: 01865 283333
    Web: http://www-em.materials.ox.ac.uk/peo...eld/index.html


    On Tue, 15 Jun 2004, Lewis Saunders wrote:

    > "Khalid Schofield" wrote:
    > > yeh ok good idea. What format shall I convert it too then? What happens to
    > > the audio? mplayer will convert it to all jpeg images. Would I be better
    > > with all bmp images?

    >
    > I've never used Premiere (note trailing e) on IRIX, but I assume from
    > screenshots that it's a straight port (I'm assuming it won't import DV AVIs
    > otherwise you could just edit them as they are). You should be able to use
    > mencoder to make raw AVI files with uncompressed PCM audio, which Premiere
    > will like. I forget the options you have to give it, you may have problems
    > with packings and depths - there are options for these, buried somewhere in
    > man mplayer. Maybe Premiere will only take raw YUV, maybe only raw RGB, I
    > have no idea.
    >
    > If that works you should be able to edit nicely, and play back in real time
    > with no problems. If it doesn't you can import image sequences into
    > Premiere, but it's a bit of a pain in the bum. Use mencoder, obviously an
    > uncompressed format (BMP, TGA, SGI) or at least lossless (PNG) is best.
    >
    >
    >


  6. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    In article ,
    Khalid Schofield wrote:

    : I'm getting firewire on my Octane

    How exactly do you intend to do that?


    : or a shiny new G5 as soon as I have funds.

    That would probably work a bit better.


    Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler

    --
    Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler -- Master of Code-fu -- nicoya@ubb.ca
    -- http://nicoya.feline.pp.se/ -- http://www.ubb.ca/ --

  7. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    Le Wed, 16 Jun 2004 23:27:59 +0100, Khalid Schofield a écrit*:

    >
    > Oh man DV over IEEE1394 is a mess on linux.


    Well I've setup dvgrab and Kino on my slackware box, it seems OK. To
    install on debian it was just a matter of "apt-get install dvgrab" and it
    did the trick fine Why is it a mess exactly?

    --
    Si ça a l'air facile, c'est difficile. Si ça a l'air difficile, c'est
    carrément impossible. Si ça a l'air impossible, c'est un compilateur
    Ada.
    Théorème de Stockmayer.


  8. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    Havn't SGI released a firewire option for Octanes now

    *********************
    Khalid Schofield
    System Administrator / EM Technician
    Dept. Of Materials
    University Of Oxford
    Parks Road
    Oxford
    OX1 3PH

    Email: khalid.schofield@materials.ox.ac.uk
    Tel: 01865 273785
    Fax: 01865 283333
    Web: http://www-em.materials.ox.ac.uk/peo...eld/index.html


    On Wed, 16 Jun 2004, Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler wrote:

    > In article ,
    > Khalid Schofield wrote:
    >
    > : I'm getting firewire on my Octane
    >
    > How exactly do you intend to do that?
    >
    >
    > : or a shiny new G5 as soon as I have funds.
    >
    > That would probably work a bit better.
    >
    >
    > Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler
    >
    > --
    > Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler -- Master of Code-fu -- nicoya@ubb.ca
    > -- http://nicoya.feline.pp.se/ -- http://www.ubb.ca/ --
    >


  9. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    In article ,
    Khalid Schofield wrote:

    : Havn't SGI released a firewire option for Octanes now

    Ah, I found it now. DM10 option. They certainly hid it well enough.


    Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler

    --
    Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler -- Master of Code-fu -- nicoya@ubb.ca
    -- http://nicoya.feline.pp.se/ -- http://www.ubb.ca/ --

  10. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    yeh SGI's website is really on a fast downhill run

    *********************
    Khalid Schofield
    System Administrator / EM Technician
    Dept. Of Materials
    University Of Oxford
    Parks Road
    Oxford
    OX1 3PH

    Email: khalid.schofield@materials.ox.ac.uk
    Tel: 01865 273785
    Fax: 01865 283333
    Web: http://www-em.materials.ox.ac.uk/peo...eld/index.html


    On Thu, 17 Jun 2004, Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler wrote:

    > In article ,
    > Khalid Schofield wrote:
    >
    > : Havn't SGI released a firewire option for Octanes now
    >
    > Ah, I found it now. DM10 option. They certainly hid it well enough.
    >
    >
    > Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler
    >
    > --
    > Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler -- Master of Code-fu -- nicoya@ubb.ca
    > -- http://nicoya.feline.pp.se/ -- http://www.ubb.ca/ --
    >


  11. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    "Khalid Schofield" wrote
    > I've found that the dv tools for linux allow capture of raw dv I'm also
    > going to try AVI 1 and AVI 2 formats as IRIX nativly supports those too
    >


    Hey - if you do manage to capture some raw DV, do you think you could try
    renaming the file to be a .dif, then playing it with movieplayer on IRIX?
    The dmIC API allegedly supports .dif files, I don't know if movieplayer
    knows about them. You should be able to play them with hardware
    decompression on O2, in theory.



  12. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    wow your right it works

    Playback under mediaplayer on my Octane.

    *********************
    Khalid Schofield
    System Administrator / EM Technician
    Dept. Of Materials
    University Of Oxford
    Parks Road
    Oxford
    OX1 3PH

    Email: khalid.schofield@materials.ox.ac.uk
    Tel: 01865 273785
    Fax: 01865 283333
    Web: http://www-em.materials.ox.ac.uk/peo...eld/index.html


    On Thu, 17 Jun 2004, Lewis Saunders wrote:

    > "Khalid Schofield" wrote
    > > I've found that the dv tools for linux allow capture of raw dv I'm also
    > > going to try AVI 1 and AVI 2 formats as IRIX nativly supports those too
    > >

    >
    > Hey - if you do manage to capture some raw DV, do you think you could try
    > renaming the file to be a .dif, then playing it with movieplayer on IRIX?
    > The dmIC API allegedly supports .dif files, I don't know if movieplayer
    > knows about them. You should be able to play them with hardware
    > decompression on O2, in theory.
    >
    >
    >


  13. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    [...]
    > Thanks for everyone's advise on this topic. I'm going to try to make a
    > movie of the sun rise in the morning using my digital camera set at
    > 1600x1200 (far lower res that I normaly use it on) and take one pic (or
    > frame as I'll be using it as) every few secs for 2 hours or more. Very
    > high quality uncompressed video and none of this pal trash in sight


    > I bet an SGI will kick ass doing that sorts of work.


    .... but your camera might not survive this "burn-in" test

    [...]

  14. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    can't be that hard on the cam though

    Does the CCD chip kick out lots of heat? Will the cam over heat ?

    I just HATE pal so badly.

    *********************
    Khalid Schofield
    System Administrator / EM Technician
    Dept. Of Materials
    University Of Oxford
    Parks Road
    Oxford
    OX1 3PH

    Email: khalid.schofield@materials.ox.ac.uk
    Tel: 01865 273785
    Fax: 01865 283333
    Web: http://www-em.materials.ox.ac.uk/peo...eld/index.html


    On Fri, 18 Jun 2004, Rainer Latka wrote:

    > [...]
    > > Thanks for everyone's advise on this topic. I'm going to try to make a
    > > movie of the sun rise in the morning using my digital camera set at
    > > 1600x1200 (far lower res that I normaly use it on) and take one pic (or
    > > frame as I'll be using it as) every few secs for 2 hours or more. Very
    > > high quality uncompressed video and none of this pal trash in sight

    >
    > > I bet an SGI will kick ass doing that sorts of work.

    >
    > ... but your camera might not survive this "burn-in" test
    >
    > [...]
    >


  15. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    Khalid Schofield wrote:
    > can't be that hard on the cam though
    >
    > Does the CCD chip kick out lots of heat? Will the cam over heat ?


    For an example of what can happen if you point your camera
    at the sun for too long, look for the diagonal stripes on
    http://www.geonet.org.nz/images/volc...40618.1500.jpg
    or
    http://www.geonet.org.nz/images/volc...40618.0700.jpg

    > I just HATE pal so badly.


    I'd suggest getting a really cheap digital camera for your
    sunrise/-set experiments. Maybe an old one that has a serial
    interface and has software available for *nix to actually
    control it (instead of just beeing able to download stored
    images).


    rainer

  16. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix


    > can't be that hard on the cam though


    yes it can

    > Does the CCD chip kick out lots of heat? Will the cam over heat ?


    actually it's the sun that kicks out a lot of heat, and the lens will
    focus it. A little test with a lens focusing the sun on the back of your
    hand will convince you.

    Of course, right at sunrise, the atmosphere absorbs a good deal of it,
    but as the sun rises higher, the heat concentration at the focus may
    eventually fry the CCD chip, especially, if you mount the camera in a
    fixed position and it is the type of camera where the CCD is permanently
    exposed.

    See e.g. (randomly selected from a google search):

    http://www.photozo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1587
    http://www.mreclipse.com/SENL/SENL9902/SENL902as.htm



  17. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    Khalid Schofield wrote in
    news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0406151359410.12429@crow.linux. ox.ac.uk:

    > oops it's premier 4.2...... sorry for mistake
    >
    > yeh ok good idea. What format shall I convert it too then? What
    > happens to the audio? mplayer will convert it to all jpeg images.
    > Would I be better with all bmp images?
    >
    > *********************
    > Khalid Schofield
    > System Administrator / EM Technician
    > Dept. Of Materials
    > University Of Oxford
    > Parks Road
    > Oxford
    > OX1 3PH
    >
    > Email: khalid.schofield@materials.ox.ac.uk
    > Tel: 01865 273785
    > Fax: 01865 283333
    > Web: http://www-em.materials.ox.ac.uk/peo...eld/index.html
    >
    >
    > On Tue, 15 Jun 2004, Lewis Saunders wrote:
    >
    >> "Khalid Schofield" wrote:
    >> > I want to edit on my Octane as it's got loads more power in it. How
    >> > can I edit DV-AVI files on irix or what format can I convert them
    >> > to?

    >>
    >> Well, it depends what app you want to use to edit them, and as you're
    >> aware your choice is a bit limited there.
    >>
    >> > mpeg2
    >> > seems to butcher using 'TMPGEnc' and setting it to max quality.

    >>
    >> Mmm, MPEG2 is really not suitable for editing unless you have your
    >> source footage compressed with it and you're desperate to avoid
    >> recompression... and even then you have to muck about making sure
    >> you're using only I frames and... just don't
    >>
    >> > It's probably not worth converting it to uncompressed video as DV
    >> > is already compressed so it would seem pointless. Or am I wrong?
    >> > Would converting it to images be better?

    >>
    >> If you have the storage, uncompressed is definitely easier all round.
    >> ISTR you getting some FC arrays a while back - if you can sustain 40
    >> Mbytes/sec and have tens of Gbytes free, I'd go uncompressed. It'll
    >> have much less processor load than editing with some compressed
    >> format.
    >>
    >> > I'll edit in Adobe Permier 7

    >>
    >> On an Octane? That'd be a good trick...
    >>
    >>
    >>


    Khalid,
    Convert all your stuff to motion-JPEG. It does not use keyframes and is
    well-supported on multiple platforms. The lack of keyframes means it is
    not dependent on the frame before it, thus lending itself to editing. If
    you have to do this on a Peecee, use Quicktime Pro to convert the files
    to motion-jpeg. I think there is some kind of 2gb filesize limit so you
    may have to splice the files into multiple parts.

    Logan

  18. Re: Editing DV-AVI on irix

    "Diazonin" wrote:
    > Convert all your stuff to motion-JPEG. It does not use keyframes and is
    > well-supported on multiple platforms. The lack of keyframes means it is
    > not dependent on the frame before it, thus lending itself to editing.


    All true, but since he's using an Octane he wouldn't be able to watch his
    footage in real time. Plus rendering effects and transitions would be
    slower, and would add yet more compression artifacts. DV is an intra-frame
    only codec too, with very wide support, but needs much less CPU power to
    work with. And looks a bit crappy compared to decent rate MJPEG.

    Obviously if you have an O2 or a Cosmo card, MJPEG is the way to go.



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