hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP - SGI

This is a discussion on hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP - SGI ; Hi, my hardware texturing is broken on my Octane. It gives weird colours :-( Mplayer -vo gl2 is broke and gives purple or green colours only and the 'Distort' demo is also broke. I've removed my graphics board, removed the ...

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Thread: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

  1. hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    Hi,
    my hardware texturing is broken on my Octane. It gives weird colours :-(

    Mplayer -vo gl2 is broke and gives purple or green colours only and the
    'Distort' demo is also broke. I've removed my graphics board, removed the
    tram module and used an air duster to remove any dust. I've reseated the
    video boards but still have the problem. Any idea what it could be. Please
    see

    http://mainframe.homeunix.com/~khalid/video_problem.jpg

    for a pic of my broken distort demo. Mplayer looks much the same. Any idea
    what could be wrong?

    This is a real problem now as I use hardware texturing a lot and it seems
    to be totaly broken at the moment.

    Could it be software thats the problem?

    gfxinfo is

    Graphics board 0 is "IMPACTSR" graphics.
    Managed (":0.0") 1280x1024
    Product ID 0x2, 1 GE, 1 RE, 4 TRAMs
    MGRAS revision 4, RA revision 0
    HQ rev B, GE12 rev A, RE4 rev C, PP1 rev G,
    VC3 rev A, CMAP rev E, Heart rev D
    21" monitor (id 0xb)
    Video board present

    Channel 0:
    Origin = (0,0)
    Video Output: 1280 pixels, 1024 lines, 75.92Hz (1280x1024_76_32db)


    running versions | grep GL I get



    Octane 3% versions | grep GL I fw_gtkglarea 04/16/2003 gtkglarea-1.2.3
    OpenGL widget for GTK+ I fw_hp2xx 04/16/2003 hp2xx-3.4.0 HP-GL image
    conversion tools I fw_xtraceroute 11/22/2003 xtraceroute-0.9.0 OpenGL
    based traceroute GUI I gl_dev.books.OpenGL_PG 05/17/2003 OpenGL
    Programming Guide I gl_dev.books.OpenGL_Porting 05/17/2003 OpenGL Porting
    Guide I gl_dev.books.OpenGL_RM 05/17/2003 OpenGL Reference Manual I
    gl_dev.books.OpenGLonSGI 05/17/2003 OpenGL on Silicon Graphics Systems I
    gl_dev.man 05/17/2003 GL Documentation I gl_dev.man.gldev 05/17/2003 GL
    Development Manual Pages I gl_dev.man.relnotes 05/17/2003 GL Development
    Release Notes I gl_dev.sw 05/17/2003 GL Software I gl_dev.sw.gldev
    05/17/2003 GL Development Environment I gl_dev.sw.widget 05/17/2003 OpenGL
    Widget Development Environment I gl_dev.sw64 05/17/2003 GL Software 64bit
    I gl_dev.sw64.gldev 04/16/2003 64bit GL Development Environment I
    gl_dev.sw64.widget 05/17/2003 OpenGL Widget 64bit Development Environment
    I mpk_dev 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Development Environment,
    3.0.0 I mpk_dev.man 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Documents I
    mpk_dev.man.base 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Man Pages I
    mpk_dev.man.pg 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Programmers Guide I
    mpk_dev.man.relnotes 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Release Notes
    I mpk_dev.sw 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Software I
    mpk_dev.sw.base 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Headers I
    mpk_dev.sw.examples 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Example Code I
    mpk_eoe 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Execution Only
    Environment, 3.0.0 I mpk_eoe.man 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library
    Documents I mpk_eoe.man.relnotes 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library
    Release Notes I mpk_eoe.man.ug 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Users Guide
    I mpk_eoe.sw 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Executable Software I
    mpk_eoe.sw.base 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Shared Library I
    performer_data 05/04/2003 OpenGL Performer 3.0.1 Database Samples I
    performer_demo 05/04/2003 OpenGL Performer 3.0.1 Demos and Demo Data I
    performer_eoe 05/17/2003 OpenGL Performer 3.0.1 Run-Time Environment I
    shader_dev 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Development Environment I
    shader_dev.man 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Reference I
    shader_dev.man.compilers 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Compiler Man Pages
    I shader_dev.man.isl 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 ISL Library
    Documentation I shader_dev.man.relnotes 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1
    Release Notes
    I shader_dev.sw 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Software
    I shader_dev.sw.compilers 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Software
    I shader_dev.sw.examples 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Examples
    I shader_dev.sw.headers 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Headers
    I shader_dev.sw.liblinks 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Library Links
    I shader_eoe 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Execution Environment
    I shader_eoe.man 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Execution Environment Docs
    I shader_eoe.man.isl 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 ISL Specification
    I shader_eoe.man.relnotes 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Release Notes
    I shader_eoe.sw 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Software
    I shader_eoe.sw.libraries 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Libraries

  2. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:41:58 +0000
    Khalid Schofield wrote:

    > Hi,
    > my hardware texturing is broken on my Octane. It gives weird colours :-(
    >
    > Mplayer -vo gl2 is broke and gives purple or green colours only and the
    > 'Distort' demo is also broke. I've removed my graphics board, removed the
    > tram module and used an air duster to remove any dust. I've reseated the
    > video boards but still have the problem. Any idea what it could be. Please
    > see
    >
    > http://mainframe.homeunix.com/~khalid/video_problem.jpg
    >
    > for a pic of my broken distort demo. Mplayer looks much the same. Any idea
    > what could be wrong?
    >
    > This is a real problem now as I use hardware texturing a lot and it seems
    > to be totaly broken at the moment.
    >
    > Could it be software thats the problem?
    >
    > gfxinfo is
    >
    > Graphics board 0 is "IMPACTSR" graphics.
    > Managed (":0.0") 1280x1024
    > Product ID 0x2, 1 GE, 1 RE, 4 TRAMs
    > MGRAS revision 4, RA revision 0
    > HQ rev B, GE12 rev A, RE4 rev C, PP1 rev G,
    > VC3 rev A, CMAP rev E, Heart rev D
    > 21" monitor (id 0xb)
    > Video board present
    >
    > Channel 0:
    > Origin = (0,0)
    > Video Output: 1280 pixels, 1024 lines, 75.92Hz (1280x1024_76_32db)
    >
    >
    > running versions | grep GL I get
    >
    >
    >
    > Octane 3% versions | grep GL I fw_gtkglarea 04/16/2003 gtkglarea-1.2.3
    > OpenGL widget for GTK+ I fw_hp2xx 04/16/2003 hp2xx-3.4.0 HP-GL image
    > conversion tools I fw_xtraceroute 11/22/2003 xtraceroute-0.9.0 OpenGL
    > based traceroute GUI I gl_dev.books.OpenGL_PG 05/17/2003 OpenGL
    > Programming Guide I gl_dev.books.OpenGL_Porting 05/17/2003 OpenGL Porting
    > Guide I gl_dev.books.OpenGL_RM 05/17/2003 OpenGL Reference Manual I
    > gl_dev.books.OpenGLonSGI 05/17/2003 OpenGL on Silicon Graphics Systems I
    > gl_dev.man 05/17/2003 GL Documentation I gl_dev.man.gldev 05/17/2003 GL
    > Development Manual Pages I gl_dev.man.relnotes 05/17/2003 GL Development
    > Release Notes I gl_dev.sw 05/17/2003 GL Software I gl_dev.sw.gldev
    > 05/17/2003 GL Development Environment I gl_dev.sw.widget 05/17/2003 OpenGL
    > Widget Development Environment I gl_dev.sw64 05/17/2003 GL Software 64bit
    > I gl_dev.sw64.gldev 04/16/2003 64bit GL Development Environment I
    > gl_dev.sw64.widget 05/17/2003 OpenGL Widget 64bit Development Environment
    > I mpk_dev 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Development Environment,
    > 3.0.0 I mpk_dev.man 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Documents I
    > mpk_dev.man.base 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Man Pages I
    > mpk_dev.man.pg 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Programmers Guide I
    > mpk_dev.man.relnotes 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Release Notes
    > I mpk_dev.sw 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Software I
    > mpk_dev.sw.base 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Headers I
    > mpk_dev.sw.examples 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Example Code I
    > mpk_eoe 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Execution Only
    > Environment, 3.0.0 I mpk_eoe.man 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library
    > Documents I mpk_eoe.man.relnotes 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library
    > Release Notes I mpk_eoe.man.ug 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Users Guide
    > I mpk_eoe.sw 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Executable Software I
    > mpk_eoe.sw.base 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Shared Library I
    > performer_data 05/04/2003 OpenGL Performer 3.0.1 Database Samples I
    > performer_demo 05/04/2003 OpenGL Performer 3.0.1 Demos and Demo Data I
    > performer_eoe 05/17/2003 OpenGL Performer 3.0.1 Run-Time Environment I
    > shader_dev 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Development Environment I
    > shader_dev.man 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Reference I
    > shader_dev.man.compilers 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Compiler Man Pages
    > I shader_dev.man.isl 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 ISL Library
    > Documentation I shader_dev.man.relnotes 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1
    > Release Notes
    > I shader_dev.sw 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Software
    > I shader_dev.sw.compilers 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Software
    > I shader_dev.sw.examples 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Examples
    > I shader_dev.sw.headers 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Headers
    > I shader_dev.sw.liblinks 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Library Links
    > I shader_eoe 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Execution Environment
    > I shader_eoe.man 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Execution Environment Docs
    > I shader_eoe.man.isl 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 ISL Specification
    > I shader_eoe.man.relnotes 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Release Notes
    > I shader_eoe.sw 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Software
    > I shader_eoe.sw.libraries 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Libraries


    Khalid,
    Are you sure it's the hardware that's broken, not the mplayer? mplayer doesn't seem to me like a way of stress testing hardware texturing... Some of the demos will, CAD systems will (the ones that can actually do texturing), CAID will (Maya, Alias Studio, Blender, ...).

  3. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    Khalid Schofield wrote:
    > Hi,
    > my hardware texturing is broken on my Octane. It gives weird colours :-(


    does this also occur when using other apps that make use of the TRAMs?
    Did you try some of the IRIX demos (TexCube, etc.)?


    Cheers
    Andreas

  4. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    have a look at the screenshot I posted. I am also having problems with the
    demos not working anymore.

    *********************
    Khalid Schofield
    System Administrator / EM Technician
    Dept. Of Materials
    University Of Oxford
    Parks Road
    Oxford
    OX1 3PH

    Email: khalid.schofield@materials.ox.ac.uk
    Tel: 01865 273785
    Fax: 01865 283333
    Web: http://www-em.materials.ox.ac.uk/peo...eld/index.html


    On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, UNIX Musuem wrote:

    > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:41:58 +0000
    > Khalid Schofield wrote:
    >
    > > Hi,
    > > my hardware texturing is broken on my Octane. It gives weird colours :-(
    > >
    > > Mplayer -vo gl2 is broke and gives purple or green colours only and the
    > > 'Distort' demo is also broke. I've removed my graphics board, removed the
    > > tram module and used an air duster to remove any dust. I've reseated the
    > > video boards but still have the problem. Any idea what it could be. Please
    > > see
    > >
    > > http://mainframe.homeunix.com/~khalid/video_problem.jpg
    > >
    > > for a pic of my broken distort demo. Mplayer looks much the same. Any idea
    > > what could be wrong?
    > >
    > > This is a real problem now as I use hardware texturing a lot and it seems
    > > to be totaly broken at the moment.
    > >
    > > Could it be software thats the problem?
    > >
    > > gfxinfo is
    > >
    > > Graphics board 0 is "IMPACTSR" graphics.
    > > Managed (":0.0") 1280x1024
    > > Product ID 0x2, 1 GE, 1 RE, 4 TRAMs
    > > MGRAS revision 4, RA revision 0
    > > HQ rev B, GE12 rev A, RE4 rev C, PP1 rev G,
    > > VC3 rev A, CMAP rev E, Heart rev D
    > > 21" monitor (id 0xb)
    > > Video board present
    > >
    > > Channel 0:
    > > Origin = (0,0)
    > > Video Output: 1280 pixels, 1024 lines, 75.92Hz (1280x1024_76_32db)
    > >
    > >
    > > running versions | grep GL I get
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Octane 3% versions | grep GL I fw_gtkglarea 04/16/2003 gtkglarea-1.2.3
    > > OpenGL widget for GTK+ I fw_hp2xx 04/16/2003 hp2xx-3.4.0 HP-GL image
    > > conversion tools I fw_xtraceroute 11/22/2003 xtraceroute-0.9.0 OpenGL
    > > based traceroute GUI I gl_dev.books.OpenGL_PG 05/17/2003 OpenGL
    > > Programming Guide I gl_dev.books.OpenGL_Porting 05/17/2003 OpenGL Porting
    > > Guide I gl_dev.books.OpenGL_RM 05/17/2003 OpenGL Reference Manual I
    > > gl_dev.books.OpenGLonSGI 05/17/2003 OpenGL on Silicon Graphics Systems I
    > > gl_dev.man 05/17/2003 GL Documentation I gl_dev.man.gldev 05/17/2003 GL
    > > Development Manual Pages I gl_dev.man.relnotes 05/17/2003 GL Development
    > > Release Notes I gl_dev.sw 05/17/2003 GL Software I gl_dev.sw.gldev
    > > 05/17/2003 GL Development Environment I gl_dev.sw.widget 05/17/2003 OpenGL
    > > Widget Development Environment I gl_dev.sw64 05/17/2003 GL Software 64bit
    > > I gl_dev.sw64.gldev 04/16/2003 64bit GL Development Environment I
    > > gl_dev.sw64.widget 05/17/2003 OpenGL Widget 64bit Development Environment
    > > I mpk_dev 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Development Environment,
    > > 3.0.0 I mpk_dev.man 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Documents I
    > > mpk_dev.man.base 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Man Pages I
    > > mpk_dev.man.pg 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Programmers Guide I
    > > mpk_dev.man.relnotes 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Release Notes
    > > I mpk_dev.sw 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Software I
    > > mpk_dev.sw.base 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Headers I
    > > mpk_dev.sw.examples 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Example Code I
    > > mpk_eoe 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Execution Only
    > > Environment, 3.0.0 I mpk_eoe.man 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library
    > > Documents I mpk_eoe.man.relnotes 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library
    > > Release Notes I mpk_eoe.man.ug 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Users Guide
    > > I mpk_eoe.sw 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Executable Software I
    > > mpk_eoe.sw.base 07/29/2003 OpenGL Multipipe SDK Library Shared Library I
    > > performer_data 05/04/2003 OpenGL Performer 3.0.1 Database Samples I
    > > performer_demo 05/04/2003 OpenGL Performer 3.0.1 Demos and Demo Data I
    > > performer_eoe 05/17/2003 OpenGL Performer 3.0.1 Run-Time Environment I
    > > shader_dev 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Development Environment I
    > > shader_dev.man 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Reference I
    > > shader_dev.man.compilers 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Compiler Man Pages
    > > I shader_dev.man.isl 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 ISL Library
    > > Documentation I shader_dev.man.relnotes 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1
    > > Release Notes
    > > I shader_dev.sw 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Software
    > > I shader_dev.sw.compilers 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Software
    > > I shader_dev.sw.examples 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Examples
    > > I shader_dev.sw.headers 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Headers
    > > I shader_dev.sw.liblinks 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Library Links
    > > I shader_eoe 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Execution Environment
    > > I shader_eoe.man 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Execution Environment Docs
    > > I shader_eoe.man.isl 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 ISL Specification
    > > I shader_eoe.man.relnotes 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Release Notes
    > > I shader_eoe.sw 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Software
    > > I shader_eoe.sw.libraries 05/04/2003 OpenGL Shader 3.0.1 Libraries

    >
    > Khalid,
    > Are you sure it's the hardware that's broken, not the mplayer? mplayer doesn't seem to me like a way of stress testing hardware texturing... Some of the demos will, CAD systems will (the ones that can actually do texturing), CAID will (Maya, Alias Studio, Blender, ...).
    >


  5. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    yep

    please see the screenshot I posted.

    *********************
    Khalid Schofield
    System Administrator / EM Technician
    Dept. Of Materials
    University Of Oxford
    Parks Road
    Oxford
    OX1 3PH

    Email: khalid.schofield@materials.ox.ac.uk
    Tel: 01865 273785
    Fax: 01865 283333
    Web: http://www-em.materials.ox.ac.uk/peo...eld/index.html


    On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Andreas Backhaus wrote:

    > Khalid Schofield wrote:
    > > Hi,
    > > my hardware texturing is broken on my Octane. It gives weird colours :-(

    >
    > does this also occur when using other apps that make use of the TRAMs?
    > Did you try some of the IRIX demos (TexCube, etc.)?
    >
    >
    > Cheers
    > Andreas
    >


  6. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    Khalid Schofield wrote:

    > yep
    >
    > please see the screenshot I posted.


    That sounds like failing TRAM. Do you have anyone within your reach who
    has experience with SMD soldering? Most TRAMs can be fixed with a calm hand.


    Cheers
    Andreas

  7. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    yep I do :-)

    what is the common fault? I'll also try to find someone who can lend me a
    tram module for an SE board to I can check.

    *********************
    Khalid Schofield
    System Administrator / EM Technician
    Dept. Of Materials
    University Of Oxford
    Parks Road
    Oxford
    OX1 3PH

    Email: khalid.schofield@materials.ox.ac.uk
    Tel: 01865 273785
    Fax: 01865 283333
    Web: http://www-em.materials.ox.ac.uk/peo...eld/index.html


    On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Andreas Backhaus wrote:

    > Khalid Schofield wrote:
    >
    > > yep
    > >
    > > please see the screenshot I posted.

    >
    > That sounds like failing TRAM. Do you have anyone within your reach who
    > has experience with SMD soldering? Most TRAMs can be fixed with a calm hand.
    >
    >
    > Cheers
    > Andreas
    >


  8. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    Khalid Schofield wrote:

    > yep I do :-)
    >
    > what is the common fault? I'll also try to find someone who can lend me a
    > tram module for an SE board to I can check.


    the pins of the RAMs desolder because of the heat - you just have to
    check the four TRAMs on each module for those desoldered pins. That's
    about it


    Cheers
    Andreas

  9. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    In article ,
    Andreas Backhaus wrote:

    : Khalid Schofield wrote:
    :
    : > yep I do :-)
    : >
    : > what is the common fault? I'll also try to find someone who can lend me a
    : > tram module for an SE board to I can check.
    :
    : the pins of the RAMs desolder because of the heat - you just have to
    : check the four TRAMs on each module for those desoldered pins. That's
    : about it

    It should be noted that soldering surface-mount ICs is a bit easier than most
    people assume.

    The technique is not "use a very fine tipped soldering iron, microscope, and
    steady hands of a surgeon", it's more like "get the soldering iron nice and hot
    and wipe a small blob of solder across all the pins on one side". If the solder
    is the right temperature it will cling only to the solder pads and IC leads, and
    will not form bridges between the pins. If you do get some bridges, they're easy
    enough to wipe away with the hot iron.


    Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler

    --
    Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler -- Master of Code-fu -- nicoya@ubb.ca
    -- http://nicoya.feline.pp.se/ -- http://www.ubb.ca/ --

  10. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler wrote:

    > The technique is not "use a very fine tipped soldering iron, microscope, and
    > steady hands of a surgeon", it's more like "get the soldering iron nice and hot
    > and wipe a small blob of solder across all the pins on one side". If the solder
    > is the right temperature it will cling only to the solder pads and IC leads, and
    > will not form bridges between the pins. If you do get some bridges, they're easy
    > enough to wipe away with the hot iron.


    In theory, that works. In real life, not so good :-/
    What you get with this method are tons of pins that are soldered
    together and it's not that easy to wipe that away. What works well is to
    suck away the solder (no, don't use mom's vacuum cleaner).

    Or I didn't find the right temperature for the soldering iron - don't
    forget, make it too hot and you'll damage more than you'll fix.

    Anyway, I'm open to corrections, I've got two more TRAMs here to fix *g*


    Cheers
    Andreas

  11. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    kool will look at it :-)

    I'll slap on my high mag goggles I use for looking at electron microscope
    samples and have a look for dry joints.

    *********************
    Khalid Schofield
    System Administrator / EM Technician
    Dept. Of Materials
    University Of Oxford
    Parks Road
    Oxford
    OX1 3PH

    Email: khalid.schofield@materials.ox.ac.uk
    Tel: 01865 273785
    Fax: 01865 283333
    Web: http://www-em.materials.ox.ac.uk/peo...eld/index.html


    On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Andreas Backhaus wrote:

    > Khalid Schofield wrote:
    >
    > > yep I do :-)
    > >
    > > what is the common fault? I'll also try to find someone who can lend me a
    > > tram module for an SE board to I can check.

    >
    > the pins of the RAMs desolder because of the heat - you just have to
    > check the four TRAMs on each module for those desoldered pins. That's
    > about it
    >
    >
    > Cheers
    > Andreas
    >


  12. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    Thanks for the tip :-)

    I'm testing the hardware and going to re-install GL on my Octane. If it's
    stil dead the I'll grab my iron.


    *********************
    Khalid Schofield
    System Administrator / EM Technician
    Dept. Of Materials
    University Of Oxford
    Parks Road
    Oxford
    OX1 3PH

    Email: khalid.schofield@materials.ox.ac.uk
    Tel: 01865 273785
    Fax: 01865 283333
    Web: http://www-em.materials.ox.ac.uk/peo...eld/index.html


    On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler wrote:

    > In article ,
    > Andreas Backhaus wrote:
    >
    > : Khalid Schofield wrote:
    > :
    > : > yep I do :-)
    > : >
    > : > what is the common fault? I'll also try to find someone who can lend me a
    > : > tram module for an SE board to I can check.
    > :
    > : the pins of the RAMs desolder because of the heat - you just have to
    > : check the four TRAMs on each module for those desoldered pins. That's
    > : about it
    >
    > It should be noted that soldering surface-mount ICs is a bit easier than most
    > people assume.
    >
    > The technique is not "use a very fine tipped soldering iron, microscope, and
    > steady hands of a surgeon", it's more like "get the soldering iron nice and hot
    > and wipe a small blob of solder across all the pins on one side". If the solder
    > is the right temperature it will cling only to the solder pads and IC leads, and
    > will not form bridges between the pins. If you do get some bridges, they're easy
    > enough to wipe away with the hot iron.
    >
    >
    > Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler
    >
    > --
    > Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler -- Master of Code-fu -- nicoya@ubb.ca
    > -- http://nicoya.feline.pp.se/ -- http://www.ubb.ca/ --
    >


  13. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    Andreas Backhaus wrote:


    > What you get with this method are tons of pins that are soldered
    > together and it's not that easy to wipe that away.


    ....with a raster as small as the RAMs on the modules, I meant to say.


    Cheers
    Andreas

  14. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    In article ,
    Andreas Backhaus wrote:

    : In theory, that works. In real life, not so good :-/
    : What you get with this method are tons of pins that are soldered
    : together and it's not that easy to wipe that away. What works well is to
    : suck away the solder (no, don't use mom's vacuum cleaner).
    :
    : Or I didn't find the right temperature for the soldering iron - don't
    : forget, make it too hot and you'll damage more than you'll fix.
    :
    : Anyway, I'm open to corrections, I've got two more TRAMs here to fix *g*

    Well, ok, there is a *bit* of technique to it. Getting the right temperature,
    getting the right amount of solder, knowing how to coax solder to flow in the
    right directions, etc. It's something that you have to pick up with practice,
    the main skill you need controlling the flow of solder from iron to joint and
    from joint to iron.

    The point I was trying to make, though, is that you don't need a $100k rework
    station and inhuman ninja skills to be able to fix up a few SMT solder joints.


    Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler

    --
    Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler -- Master of Code-fu -- nicoya@ubb.ca
    -- http://nicoya.feline.pp.se/ -- http://www.ubb.ca/ --

  15. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler wrote:

    > The point I was trying to make, though, is that you don't need a $100k rework
    > station and inhuman ninja skills to be able to fix up a few SMT solder joints.


    that is certainly true - I used soldering equipment worth around 70 EUR.


    Cheers
    Andreas

  16. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP



    Andreas Backhaus wrote:


    > the pins of the RAMs desolder because of the heat - you just have to
    > check the four TRAMs on each module for those desoldered pins. That's
    > about it


    I seriously doubt that the TRAMs get to around 400 degrees F. (204.4
    degrees C), which is the temperature that 60/40 tin/lead solder
    melts. I've never seen any semiconductor device boil spit
    (100 deg. C) and survive more than a few minutes.

    More likely they weren't IR reflowed properly during production. When
    fresh, the resin in the solder paste allows the solder paste to make a
    connection. But as the resin dries out over time (and high temps),
    it loses the electrical connection.

    BTW, I have seen this (loose pins) on TRAMs, I use a stereo microscope,
    and press down on each pin of the RAM ICs with the tip of an Xacto
    knife. If the IC lead moves at all, it's not soldered. It IS a
    bit of an art (and requires much practice), but it can be soldered.
    Use a very fine tip soldering iron, at around 600-650 deg. F, and
    very fine solder, or solder paste if you can find it.

    --
    Greg Douglas
    Reputable Systems




  17. Re: hardware texturing broken on Octane HELP

    In article <103r0o4a87iqr2d@corp.supernews.com>,
    Greg Douglas wrote:

    : Andreas Backhaus wrote:
    :
    :
    : > the pins of the RAMs desolder because of the heat - you just have to
    : > check the four TRAMs on each module for those desoldered pins. That's
    : > about it
    :
    : I seriously doubt that the TRAMs get to around 400 degrees F. (204.4
    : degrees C), which is the temperature that 60/40 tin/lead solder
    : melts. I've never seen any semiconductor device boil spit
    : (100 deg. C) and survive more than a few minutes.
    :
    : More likely they weren't IR reflowed properly during production. When
    : fresh, the resin in the solder paste allows the solder paste to make a
    : connection. But as the resin dries out over time (and high temps),
    : it loses the electrical connection.
    :
    : BTW, I have seen this (loose pins) on TRAMs, I use a stereo microscope,
    : and press down on each pin of the RAM ICs with the tip of an Xacto
    : knife. If the IC lead moves at all, it's not soldered. It IS a
    : bit of an art (and requires much practice), but it can be soldered.
    : Use a very fine tip soldering iron, at around 600-650 deg. F, and
    : very fine solder, or solder paste if you can find it.

    Self-desoldering pins aren't actually all that uncommon in electronics, even
    when the original solder joint is good. The Alpha CPU in particular was
    notorious for this, and it's a very common failure mode for TVs and Monitors to
    have some pins in the flyback circutry desolder themselves.

    There's no actual melting of solder involved, of course. The process is one of
    both mechanical stresses during thermal cycles and I believe in the case of high
    voltage components the solder itself can tend to migrate, forming pits and gaps
    that make the joint look a lot like a moonscape. Both of these conditions can be
    worsened if the board was not properly cleaned of flux residue after soldering.

    The Flux or Resin does not provide any function in the joint after the joint has
    been properly soldered.


    Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler

    --
    Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler -- Master of Code-fu -- nicoya@ubb.ca
    -- http://nicoya.feline.pp.se/ -- http://www.ubb.ca/ --

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