IRIX freeware releases - SGI

This is a discussion on IRIX freeware releases - SGI ; Hello, I Wanted to ask how often is the freeware collection for IRIX updated ? THere are a few package marked as dangerous because of vulnerabilities. There are also packages which depends on the dangerous one so that to have ...

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  1. IRIX freeware releases

    Hello,
    I Wanted to ask how often is the freeware collection for IRIX updated ?
    THere are a few package marked as dangerous because of vulnerabilities.
    There are also packages which depends on the dangerous one so that
    to have a decent freeware install I had to remove
    fw_common.sw.security_fixes

    thank you

    Rick



  2. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    In article ,
    Rick wrote:
    :I Wanted to ask how often is the freeware collection for IRIX updated ?

    Usually 4 times a year -- February, May, August, and November.


    :THere are a few package marked as dangerous because of vulnerabilities.
    :There are also packages which depends on the dangerous one so that
    :to have a decent freeware install I had to remove
    : fw_common.sw.security_fixes

    There are internal delays of some sort; the usual November
    release is late. We have not been told of the nature of the delays.
    --
    'ignorandus (Latin): "deserving not to be known"'
    -- Journal of Self-Referentialism

  3. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    hello,
    mike wrote:
    > I think we can all assume it might have to do with less man-power,
    > unfortunately


    when is IRIX version VII coming out, is there even a roadmap for future
    IRIX releases after 6.X ?

    g.


  4. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    In article ,
    wrote:
    :when is IRIX version VII coming out, is there even a roadmap for future
    :IRIX releases after 6.X ?

    The only technical reason to go for IRIX 6.6 or 7.0 would be if it
    were important to break the forwards-and-backwards compatability
    promises of 6.5 .

    Going to IRIX 6.6 or 7.0 could be important from a marketting hype
    perspective, if it were felt necessary to convince buyers that there
    was something substantially new and exciting in IRIX.

    Software application vendors, though, made it very clear to SGI that
    every time SGI does a major release upgrade (e.g., 6.5 to 6.6) then
    that they have to requalify all their applications for IRIX, and that
    that's an expensive process that a number of them are not willing to
    undertake. These vendors -are- willing to keep up with the subrelease
    6.5.X strategy because of the compatability guarantees. Break that
    guarantee, upset the vendors. Even if it's just a name change for sales
    hype reasons, the vendors have to treat it as if it is a big technical
    change, and that makes them unhappy.


    What is it that you see that could be accomplished in 6.6 or 7.0 that
    could not be accomplished in 6.5.X ? There -are- road maps for
    IRIX development within 6.5: why do you see 6.6 or 7.0 as important?
    Are you perhaps just looking for a marketing signal that IRIX isn't
    dead, that SGI is still putting a lot of faith and effort into IRIX?
    --
    "The human genome is powerless in the face of chocolate."
    -- Dr. Adam Drewnowski

  5. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    gereon@geekmail.de wrote:
    >
    > when is IRIX version VII coming out, is there even a roadmap for future
    > IRIX releases after 6.X ?


    This has been discussed several times in the past. You should check
    google.

    But to save you a little effort, here are the main points from SGI's
    point of view:

    - features, hardware support and improvements are being added to IRIX
    at every quartlery release. You're not missing out on stuff.

    - renumbering IRIX from 6.5 to 7 buys us little and will in fact cost
    SGI a whole lot to have it requalified with various standards and
    applications.

    - SGI has decided that the IRIX 6.5 compatibility guarantee is a good
    thing for its customers, and renumbering it to 7 would imply breaking
    that guarantee.

    - and certainly there is a roadmap for IRIX which covers things like
    future features, other major work and hardware support.

    - releasing a new "version" of an OS is a marketing decision for all
    vendors, not a technical one. There are very few actual new OSes
    that actually deserve being labelled as a new version. OS X is
    probably as close to a new OS as we've seen for some time, at least
    from the customer's point of view. XP is as relatively close to NT
    as IRIX 6.5.23 is to 6.5 base.

    - and finally, not changing the OS willy-nilly is a good thing.
    Software stability and performance comes over time, as it matures.
    XP is much better than NT, not because it is a new version, but
    because it is mostly the same version with a bucket-load of bugs and
    performance issues fixed.


    Ivan
    --
    Ivan Rayner
    ivanr@sgi.com

  6. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    Ivan Rayner wrote:

    > gereon@geekmail.de wrote:
    > >
    > > when is IRIX version VII coming out, is there even a roadmap for future
    > > IRIX releases after 6.X ?

    >
    > This has been discussed several times in the past. You should check
    > google.
    >
    > But to save you a little effort, here are the main points from SGI's
    > point of view:
    >
    > - features, hardware support and improvements are being added to IRIX
    > at every quartlery release. You're not missing out on stuff.


    like IP22 support

    >
    >
    > - renumbering IRIX from 6.5 to 7 buys us little and will in fact cost
    > SGI a whole lot to have it requalified with various standards and
    > applications.
    >


    but coming out with several lines of failed peecee platforms cost nothing,
    i guess.

    >
    > - SGI has decided that the IRIX 6.5 compatibility guarantee is a good
    > thing for its customers, and renumbering it to 7 would imply breaking
    > that guarantee.


    yes, lets save 7 for eol of IRIX, so after years of 6.5.25... 6.5.75 it
    looks like
    the linux development cycle, and customers are used to that.

    >
    >
    > - and certainly there is a roadmap for IRIX which covers things like
    > future features, other major work and hardware support.


    like uh... fixing mediarecord? or ah... upgrading opengl past 1.1?
    nah.....

    >
    >
    > - releasing a new "version" of an OS is a marketing decision for all
    > vendors, not a technical one. There are very few actual new OSes
    > that actually deserve being labelled as a new version. OS X is
    > probably as close to a new OS as we've seen for some time, at least
    > from the customer's point of view. XP is as relatively close to NT
    > as IRIX 6.5.23 is to 6.5 base.
    >


    i don't know. some vendors roll out new OS version when they make
    major upgrades to it either to bring new software or hardware products
    to market, and that's generally a technical reason.
    staying at 6.5.x sounds more like stagnation....

    >
    > - and finally, not changing the OS willy-nilly is a good thing.
    > Software stability and performance comes over time, as it matures.
    > XP is much better than NT, not because it is a new version, but
    > because it is mostly the same version with a bucket-load of bugs and
    > performance issues fixed.


    well, i DO admit there isn't one damn reason i would run anything other
    than irix. because frankly, it IS the most stable and easy to use unix OS
    I've used, as well as most others... except poor TOPS-20... (boohoo).

    anyway all opinions are rhetorical unless specifically implied.

    >
    >
    > Ivan
    > --
    > Ivan Rayner
    > ivanr@sgi.com



  7. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    In article ,
    Ivan Rayner wrote:

    : We bring plenty of new hardware to market under the 6.5 name. We add
    : plenty of new features under the 6.5 name. Renumbering 6.5.24 to IRIX
    : 7 wont automatically get you a fancy new desktop...

    Why not renumber 6.5.24 as "IRIX 24". Just slowly phase the "6.5" out of the
    marketing speak - since it will never change it's pointless to keep those digits
    around.

    That way you satisfy both camps. For people who say "IRIX must always be 6.5",
    simply point to the uname which says "6.5.24". For the people who say "IRIX is
    only on life support and nothing new is added" point to the fancy big "IRIX 24"
    version number - increases by a whole integer every quarter, and it's a whopping
    14 better than Solaris 10.

    Of course, I'm still wondering what you're gonna name the CPU after you get past
    R18k, since R20k is already taken.


    Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler

    --
    Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler -- Master of Code-fu -- nicoya@ubb.ca
    -- http://nicoya.feline.pp.se/ -- http://www.ubb.ca/ --

  8. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    Ivan Rayner wrote:

    > Ah, now that is an entirely different topic... All companies try
    > things and fail. The PC experience did lead to the Altix which is an
    > impressive machine.


    Hmm...I see no reason why the experience SGI had in the x86 market should
    lead to a machine that is based on IA64 and Origin technology.

    Benjamin



  9. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    Walter Roberson wrote:

    > The only technical reason to go for IRIX 6.6 or 7.0 would be if it
    > were important to break the forwards-and-backwards compatability
    > promises of 6.5 .
    >
    > Going to IRIX 6.6 or 7.0 could be important from a marketting hype
    > perspective, if it were felt necessary to convince buyers that there
    > was something substantially new and exciting in IRIX.
    >
    > Software application vendors, though, made it very clear to SGI that
    > every time SGI does a major release upgrade (e.g., 6.5 to 6.6) then
    > that they have to requalify all their applications for IRIX, and that
    > that's an expensive process that a number of them are not willing to
    > undertake. These vendors -are- willing to keep up with the subrelease
    > 6.5.X strategy because of the compatability guarantees. Break that
    > guarantee, upset the vendors.


    IMHO that's a really sad excuse for stagnation. The point is that most other
    platform vendors _do_ major release upgrades with the software vendors
    following them. I understand SGI is afraid of loosing the few remaining
    companies developing for IRIX but besides the technical side it's very bad
    marketing since it makes people think SGI isn't interested in IRIX any more.

    > Even if it's just a name change for
    > sales hype reasons, the vendors have to treat it as if it is a big
    > technical change, and that makes them unhappy.


    It depends. I have the feeling it makes _SGI_ unhappy as every new release
    of a vendors software product might be the one that doesn't support IRIX any
    more. If software vendors are running away from Your platform of course You
    are afraid of changes that might cause these vendors to think about their
    IRIX efforts twice.

    > What is it that you see that could be accomplished in 6.6 or 7.0 that
    > could not be accomplished in 6.5.X ? There -are- road maps for
    > IRIX development within 6.5: why do you see 6.6 or 7.0 as important?
    > Are you perhaps just looking for a marketing signal that IRIX isn't
    > dead, that SGI is still putting a lot of faith and effort into IRIX?


    With the current situation SGI could really use some "marketing signal" that
    shows that there is still done something. Maybe IRIX is still up to date,
    but the outside world gets the impression that it is not. Usually the last
    numbers are used to show the patch level, and a numbering like 6.5.22 says
    that it's mainly a bug fix for an operating system that hasn't seen a major
    update since 1998! Maybe there is any progress inside IRIX, but that is
    definitely not shown by SGI. And while the competition is producing a new OS
    Release every 1-3 years SGI will still be at 6.5 when offering the 'IRIX
    6.55.485m' update.

    As to breaking up things, I know SGI is afraid of the software vendor
    dropping them, but maybe one of the reason for the decreasing number of IRIX
    applications is the stagnation that SGI shows the outside world. Besides
    this, a new Release number doesn't necessarily mean to break with everything
    from 6.5. SGI could have taken some of the improvements and the current drop
    of the old hardware and package this in a optically reworked IRIX 6.6 that
    eventually comes with a improved installation routine.

    For most platform manufacturers a new OS Release usually is a positive
    thing, providing some marketing hype and showing the customers that their
    platform is still alive and being improved. IMHO SGI shouldn't be too afraid
    of changes...

    Benjamin



  10. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    Benjamin Gawert wrote:
    > Ivan Rayner wrote:
    >
    >> Ah, now that is an entirely different topic... All companies try
    >> things and fail. The PC experience did lead to the Altix which is an
    >> impressive machine.

    >
    > Hmm...I see no reason why the experience SGI had in the x86 market should
    > lead to a machine that is based on IA64 and Origin technology.


    The drive to support Linux started well before Altix was released.
    Lots of work went into Linux for IA32 and low end IA64 machines -- XFS
    being the best example.

    I don't mean to imply that the Altix was only thought of after the
    technical success of porting IRIX features to Linux -- a Intel/Linux
    version of the Origin was a goal for some time. However, early success
    with Linux on PCs and IA64 workstations certainly helped.

    From a hardware perspective, it was driven by a desire to start taking
    greater advantage of commodity parts. I expect our early use of PCs
    and IA64 workstations helped cement our relationship with Intel.

    Of course there is little relationship between a PC or IA64 workstation
    and an Altix wrt. hardware, but from a software point of view, there
    are clear ties.

    In addition to the technical aspects, many admin and engineering
    processes had to evolve to incorporate open source development.

    Ivan
    --
    Ivan Rayner
    ivanr@sgi.com

  11. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    Dans article ,
    bgawert@gmx.de disait...
    > I understand SGI is afraid of loosing the few remaining
    > companies developing for IRIX but besides the technical side it's very bad
    > marketing since it makes people think SGI isn't interested in IRIX any more.
    >


    IRIX is only a matter of compatibility now. When the Altix 300 and Altix
    graphics will be available ( soon) it will really ring the beginning of
    the end for IRIX/MIPS. I think there aren't any new IRIX/MIPS machine to
    come in the future... Wait 5 years and IRIX will be phased out.

    --
    Quis, quid, ubi, quibus auxiliis, cur, quomodo, quando?

  12. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    Dans article ,
    ivanr@sgi.com disait...
    >
    > Well, the desktop was only an example. Renumbering to 7 wont get you
    > any feature that couldn't already be put into 6.5.x. I used the desktop
    > example because most people equate a new version with something flashy
    > and obvious on their screen.
    >


    Most people here seems to forget that Solaris 7,8,9 are really Solaris
    2.7, 2.8 and 2.9... So the marketing bullsh*t does work sometimes!

    --
    Quis, quid, ubi, quibus auxiliis, cur, quomodo, quando?

  13. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    Dans article ,
    gereon@geekmail.de disait...
    >
    > when is IRIX version VII coming out, is there even a roadmap for future
    > IRIX releases after 6.X ?
    >


    Never, ever. There won't be anything higher than IRIX 6.5.xx.

    --
    Quis, quid, ubi, quibus auxiliis, cur, quomodo, quando?

  14. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    Ivan Rayner wrote:

    > SkyWriter wrote:
    > > Ivan Rayner wrote:


    > 'Course I'm just a lowly engineer, so I know nothing
    > about sales.


    hmmm.. it's usually a 'food chain' thing. the information (in one form or another)

    gets filtered down in any organization. why not just ask (with some engineering
    pretense).
    you might just get it ;-)

    >
    > >> Admittedly there are a bunch of little fixes we could do if we were
    > >> prepared to break compatibility, but they simply aren't worth it.

    > >
    > > acceptable, albiet i'll take your word for what they are.

    >
    > The compatibility guarantee bites engineering all the time, and working
    > around it can become half the problem. It doesn't just mean binary and
    > API compatibility. One example is that we wanted to improve xfsdump's
    > error reporting, to give a more detailed indication of what caused an
    > error. The obvious way to fix this was change the exit status
    > numbering, but we couldn't do that because customers might have scripts
    > which rely on the existing exit status numbers. So we had to change
    > xfsdump to print out its status at the end, which is why xfsdump will
    > print SUCCESS nowadays.
    >
    > If we went to IRIX 7 would we bother to change xfsdump's exit status
    > reporting? Of course not.
    >
    > There are many less trivial examples, and many that would be changed,
    > but all in all, it probably isn't worth the effort, especially given
    > our current resources...


    ain't customer the b*tch? ;-) they want you to maintain compatibility AND come
    out with new features.... ;-) believe me, i know where you're coming from, it's
    not an easy battle. I think the Altix strategy is a good one in the long run as
    you stated above (hrm.. cut it, sorry). however, i hate to trade the 'it just
    works'
    of mips/irix to the 'poke and prod, at the behest of one of a million self
    proclaimed
    experts' of linux (who never manage to fix anything).

    i believe it's always easier to develop and QA a hardware software system you
    own entirely, rather than manage outsourced design, standards based hardware
    integration, and someone elses OS given a reasonable number of productive people.
    ok, i'm proselytizing now... ;-) time to shut up.

    although I WOULD like to see base opengl upgraded past 1.1 on the older mips line,

    it's going to kill me someday (maybe soon).

    thanks for the insights Ivan, it's not as bad as I thought.

    >
    >
    > Ivan
    > --
    > Ivan Rayner
    > ivanr@sgi.com



  15. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    Ivan Rayner wrote:

    >> Hmm...I see no reason why the experience SGI had in the x86 market
    >> should lead to a machine that is based on IA64 and Origin technology.

    >
    > The drive to support Linux started well before Altix was released.


    When I remember right the x86 lesson for SGI started with Windows, not
    Linux...

    > From a hardware perspective, it was driven by a desire to start taking
    > greater advantage of commodity parts. I expect our early use of PCs
    > and IA64 workstations helped cement our relationship with Intel.


    Well, IA64 is definitely not what one would understand as "comodity parts".
    The only comodity parts in IA64 was the SGI 750 which was just a rebaged
    intel OEM machine that SGI tried to sell with lousy gfx and for a higher
    price than the competitors. Well, at least CPU-wise it certainly is still
    the fastest workstation SGI made ;-)

    > Of course there is little relationship between a PC or IA64
    > workstation and an Altix wrt. hardware, but from a software point of
    > view, there
    > are clear ties.


    Maybe, but with the same argument one could say that x86 and MIPS are the
    same, because both platforms run Linux...

    Benjamin



  16. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    Emmanuel Florac wrote:

    > IRIX is only a matter of compatibility now. When the Altix 300 and
    > Altix graphics will be available ( soon) it will really ring the
    > beginning of
    > the end for IRIX/MIPS. I think there aren't any new IRIX/MIPS machine
    > to
    > come in the future... Wait 5 years and IRIX will be phased out.


    That certainly will be the case. However, IMHO it is overdue for SGI to give
    up the slow MIPS platform. The Itanium machines are great, they offer
    competitive performance, and IMHO for a lot of tasks Linux does the job well
    enough.

    Benjamin



  17. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    In message , Walter Roberson wrote:
    > What is it that you see that could be accomplished in 6.6 or 7.0 that
    > could not be accomplished in 6.5.X ? There -are- road maps for
    > IRIX development within 6.5: why do you see 6.6 or 7.0 as important?
    > Are you perhaps just looking for a marketing signal that IRIX isn't
    > dead, that SGI is still putting a lot of faith and effort into IRIX?


    It would actually be quite nice to know what Sgi is planning to do. Is Mips/Irix
    still alive ? Or is it as some others here have said only alive until Itanium
    machines become available ?
    Does it still make sense to develop commercial applications for Irix ?

    As for things that can't be accomplished in 6.5 because of compatibility: The
    main thing for me are the media libraries. There still is no way to add your
    own encoders/decoders for audio/video codecs and adding that will probably
    break compatibility.

    Mark


  18. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    In article <3fca4914$0$1503$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
    Mark Hellegers wrote:
    :As for things that can't be accomplished in 6.5 because of compatibility: The
    :main thing for me are the media libraries. There still is no way to add your
    wn encoders/decoders for audio/video codecs and adding that will probably
    :break compatibility.

    Isn't patents/licensing still *the* major limitation in adding additional
    codecs ?
    --
    IMT made the sky
    Fall.

  19. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    Benjamin Gawert wrote:
    > Ivan Rayner wrote:
    >
    >>> Hmm...I see no reason why the experience SGI had in the x86 market
    >>> should lead to a machine that is based on IA64 and Origin technology.

    >>
    >> The drive to support Linux started well before Altix was released.

    >
    > When I remember right the x86 lesson for SGI started with Windows, not
    > Linux...


    Yes. So? This doesn't affect my argument. A while back I said
    something along the lines of the less said about the Windows experience
    the better.

    >> From a hardware perspective, it was driven by a desire to start taking
    >> greater advantage of commodity parts. I expect our early use of PCs
    >> and IA64 workstations helped cement our relationship with Intel.

    >
    > Well, IA64 is definitely not what one would understand as "comodity parts".


    That depends on your point of view. A commodity part for SGI, is
    something that is developed by someone else that is either cheap and
    does its job well, or has other specific advantages over SGI developing
    the part internally.

    In this case, I think the idea was to leverage Intel's market
    dominance and probable performance dominance.

    >> Of course there is little relationship between a PC or IA64
    >> workstation and an Altix wrt. hardware, but from a software point of
    >> view, there are clear ties.

    >
    > Maybe, but with the same argument one could say that x86 and MIPS are the
    > same, because both platforms run Linux...


    If SGI sold and supported Linux on both platforms, then the *software*
    engineering for both *would* be very much the same.

    Ivan
    --
    Ivan Rayner
    ivanr@sgi.com

  20. Re: IRIX freeware releases

    Benjamin Gawert wrote:

    > and IMHO for a lot of tasks Linux does the job well
    > enough.
    >
    > Benjamin


    thus the death knell of disruptive technology doth ring...



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