time sync? time servers give wrong time - Setup

This is a discussion on time sync? time servers give wrong time - Setup ; I'm in toronto. Eastern Standard time. I use netdate linux to sync my clock. I use: /usr/sbin/netdate -l 2 localhost 193.67.79.202 216.46.5.9 This was working fine until last week when the DST changed. Now it reports one hour behind. Every ...

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  1. time sync? time servers give wrong time

    I'm in toronto. Eastern Standard time. I use netdate linux to sync my
    clock. I use:

    /usr/sbin/netdate -l 2 localhost 193.67.79.202 216.46.5.9

    This was working fine until last week when the DST changed. Now it
    reports one hour behind. Every name server does this. For example:

    localhost +0.000 Thu Mar 13 19:17:51.519
    193.67.79.202 -0.669 Thu Mar 13 19:17:51.000
    216.46.5.9 -0.718 Thu Mar 13 19:17:51.000
    Local host firewall has best time, so not setting date
    localhost +0.000 Thu Mar 13 19:17:51.718

    But its 20:17 right now in EST.

    How do I fix this? Is this a setting that netdate needs to accurately
    specify EST? or are all these time servers screwed? where on slackware
    10 can I specify EST in my /etc. Everything was fine until recently
    (sunday march 9 I think).

    Thanks.
    kenw232@yahoo.com

  2. Re: time sync? time servers give wrong time

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:21:22 -0400, Ken Williams wrote:

    >I'm in toronto. Eastern Standard time. I use netdate linux to sync my
    >clock. I use:
    >
    >/usr/sbin/netdate -l 2 localhost 193.67.79.202 216.46.5.9
    >
    >This was working fine until last week when the DST changed. Now it
    >reports one hour behind. Every name server does this. For example:
    >
    >localhost +0.000 Thu Mar 13 19:17:51.519
    >193.67.79.202 -0.669 Thu Mar 13 19:17:51.000
    >216.46.5.9 -0.718 Thu Mar 13 19:17:51.000
    >Local host firewall has best time, so not setting date
    >localhost +0.000 Thu Mar 13 19:17:51.718
    >
    >But its 20:17 right now in EST.
    >
    >How do I fix this? Is this a setting that netdate needs to accurately
    >specify EST? or are all these time servers screwed? where on slackware
    >10 can I specify EST in my /etc. Everything was fine until recently
    >(sunday march 9 I think).


    You failed to update tzdata?

    From the changelog:
    "Mon Dec 31 18:49:52 CST 2007
    patches/packages/glibc-zoneinfo-2.3.2-noarch-10_slack10.0.tgz:
    Some deja vu. ;-)
    Upgraded to tzdata2007k. A new year should be started with the
    latest timezone data, so here it is.
    Happy holidays, and a happy new year to all! :-)"

    Grant.
    --
    http://bugsplatter.mine.nu/

  3. Re: time sync? time servers give wrong time

    Ken Williams writes:
    > How do I fix this? Is this a setting that netdate needs to accurately
    > specify EST? or are all these time servers screwed?


    Netdate uses the obsolescent RFC868 "time" protocol which sends the time in
    seconds the start of 1900 GMT. Thus it knows nothing about DST. Your best
    bet is to use something more modern such as Ntpdate.

    > where on slackware 10 can I specify EST in my /etc. Everything was fine
    > until recently (sunday march 9 I think).


    Slackware 10 is rather old, I believe. You probably need to update your
    zoneinfo. The problem is not with Netdate. The problem is that your
    system does not know that we switch to DST three weeks earlier than we used
    to.
    --
    John Hasler
    john@dhh.gt.org
    Dancing Horse Hill
    Elmwood, WI USA

  4. Re: time sync? time servers give wrong time

    John Hasler :
    > Ken Williams writes:
    > > where on slackware 10 can I specify EST in my /etc. Everything was fine
    > > until recently (sunday march 9 I think).

    >
    > Slackware 10 is rather old, I believe. You probably need to update your


    Indeed. June, 2004 (distrowatch.com).

    > zoneinfo. The problem is not with Netdate. The problem is that
    > your system does not know that we switch to DST three weeks earlier
    > than we used to.


    This seems to be the biggest problem for the noobs I help. I hammer
    it in that they have to keep up to date on security fixes, but it's
    like pulling teeth to get them to do it. A distro that's four years
    old and which hasn't been updated is a sick system waiting to blow
    up.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  5. Re: time sync? time servers give wrong time

    John Hasler (john@dhh.gt.org) writes:
    > Ken Williams writes:
    >> How do I fix this? Is this a setting that netdate needs to accurately
    >> specify EST? or are all these time servers screwed?

    >
    > Netdate uses the obsolescent RFC868 "time" protocol which sends the time in
    > seconds the start of 1900 GMT. Thus it knows nothing about DST. Your best
    > bet is to use something more modern such as Ntpdate.
    >
    >> where on slackware 10 can I specify EST in my /etc. Everything was fine
    >> until recently (sunday march 9 I think).

    >
    > Slackware 10 is rather old, I believe. You probably need to update your
    > zoneinfo. The problem is not with Netdate. The problem is that your
    > system does not know that we switch to DST three weeks earlier than we used
    > to.


    Yes, I had to do the patch last year when they altered the times of
    the chaneover to and from DST, and it was Slack 10.

    Slack 11 and Slack 12 are okay.

    Michael


  6. Re: time sync? time servers give wrong time

    It worked, I replaced all my files under /usr/share/zoneinfo with newer
    ones. Thanks.

    Grant wrote:
    > On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:21:22 -0400, Ken Williams wrote:
    >
    > You failed to update tzdata?
    >
    > From the changelog:
    > "Mon Dec 31 18:49:52 CST 2007
    > patches/packages/glibc-zoneinfo-2.3.2-noarch-10_slack10.0.tgz:
    > Some deja vu. ;-)
    > Upgraded to tzdata2007k. A new year should be started with the
    > latest timezone data, so here it is.
    > Happy holidays, and a happy new year to all! :-)"
    >
    > Grant.


  7. Re: time sync? time servers give wrong time

    Ken Williams writes:

    >I'm in toronto. Eastern Standard time. I use netdate linux to sync my
    >clock. I use:


    >/usr/sbin/netdate -l 2 localhost 193.67.79.202 216.46.5.9


    >This was working fine until last week when the DST changed. Now it


    It is NOT the servers. It is your /etc/localtime file. You are running a
    very very old version of Linux.
    Linux runs the system clock on UTC and gets UTC from the timeservers.
    It then adds an appropriate amount according to the /etc/localtime file

    ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata2008a.tar.gz
    mkdir /tmp/tz
    cd /tmp/tz
    tar -xzf /localation/of/tzdata2008a.tar.gz
    As root
    zic northamerica
    cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Toronto /etc/localtime
    chmod a+r /etc/localtime

    and now your time will be fine.


    >reports one hour behind. Every name server does this. For example:


    >localhost +0.000 Thu Mar 13 19:17:51.519
    >193.67.79.202 -0.669 Thu Mar 13 19:17:51.000
    >216.46.5.9 -0.718 Thu Mar 13 19:17:51.000
    >Local host firewall has best time, so not setting date
    >localhost +0.000 Thu Mar 13 19:17:51.718


    >But its 20:17 right now in EST.


    >How do I fix this? Is this a setting that netdate needs to accurately
    >specify EST? or are all these time servers screwed? where on slackware
    >10 can I specify EST in my /etc. Everything was fine until recently
    >(sunday march 9 I think).


    >Thanks.
    >kenw232@yahoo.com


  8. Re: time sync? time servers give wrong time

    John Hasler writes:

    >Ken Williams writes:
    >> How do I fix this? Is this a setting that netdate needs to accurately
    >> specify EST? or are all these time servers screwed?


    >Netdate uses the obsolescent RFC868 "time" protocol which sends the time in
    >seconds the start of 1900 GMT. Thus it knows nothing about DST. Your best
    >bet is to use something more modern such as Ntpdate.


    ntpdate also knows nothing about DST.
    Unix time is all in UTC.
    (Which of course you know).



    >> where on slackware 10 can I specify EST in my /etc. Everything was fine
    >> until recently (sunday march 9 I think).


    >Slackware 10 is rather old, I believe. You probably need to update your
    >zoneinfo. The problem is not with Netdate. The problem is that your
    >system does not know that we switch to DST three weeks earlier than we used
    >to.
    >--
    >John Hasler
    >john@dhh.gt.org
    >Dancing Horse Hill
    >Elmwood, WI USA


  9. Re: time sync? time servers give wrong time

    Bill Unruh writes:
    > ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata2008a.tar.gz
    > mkdir /tmp/tz
    > cd /tmp/tz
    > tar -xzf /localation/of/tzdata2008a.tar.gz
    > As root
    > zic northamerica
    > cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Toronto /etc/localtime
    > chmod a+r /etc/localtime


    > and now your time will be fine.


    His North American time will be fine.
    --
    John Hasler
    john@dhh.gt.org
    Dancing Horse Hill
    Elmwood, WI USA

  10. Re: time sync? time servers give wrong time

    John Hasler writes:

    >Bill Unruh writes:
    >> ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata2008a.tar.gz
    >> mkdir /tmp/tz
    >> cd /tmp/tz
    >> tar -xzf /localation/of/tzdata2008a.tar.gz
    >> As root
    >> zic northamerica
    >> cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Toronto /etc/localtime
    >> chmod a+r /etc/localtime


    >> and now your time will be fine.


    >His North American time will be fine.


    Uh, yes. That was what he wanted. If you mean that this did not fix the
    times if he happens to want Dubai time, you are correct. He would then have
    to also compile the correct file which contained the Dubai time zone. But
    he did say he lived in Toronto.

    >--
    >John Hasler
    >john@dhh.gt.org
    >Dancing Horse Hill
    >Elmwood, WI USA


  11. Re: time sync? time servers give wrong time

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.os.linux.setup, in article
    , s. keeling wrote:

    >John Hasler :


    >> Ken Williams writes:


    >>> where on slackware 10 can I specify EST in my /etc. Everything was fine
    >>> until recently (sunday march 9 I think).


    Comment: While the older timezone names such as 'EST' (which does NOT
    use Daylight Savings Time) or the slightly more appropriate 'EST5EDT'
    (which does use DST, but under US rules) are still supported by the
    NIST tzdata files, it is _really_ preferred to use the 'region/city'
    zonefiles, such as 'America/Montreal' or 'America/Toronto' which follow
    the national rules appropriate to your country.

    >> Slackware 10 is rather old, I believe. You probably need to update your

    >
    >Indeed. June, 2004 (distrowatch.com).
    >
    >> zoneinfo. The problem is not with Netdate. The problem is that
    >> your system does not know that we switch to DST three weeks earlier
    >> than we used to.


    What is funny is that this change was implemented back in the spring of
    2006 (not sure which revision, but it was certainly in tzdata2006n.tar.gz)
    and went into effect in 2007. Up-thread, 'Grant '
    shows a changelog entry which updated to tzdata2007k (which was published
    by NIST on Dec 31 15:25, 2007). This tzdata file has been replaced by
    tzdata2008a (which was published by NIST on Mar 8 10:42, 2008) but that
    revision only changes the date Chile reverts to standard time in the year
    2008 only (and includes the latest announcement from the IERS that there
    will NOT be a leap-second change at the end of June 2008).

    >This seems to be the biggest problem for the noobs I help. I hammer
    >it in that they have to keep up to date on security fixes, but it's
    >like pulling teeth to get them to do it.


    Agree completely. The comparable Fedora Linux release was FC2 (5/16/04)
    As distributed, it had 1618 packages. 26 months later at End-Of-Life,
    the errata server had 741 packages available for update. Now before
    some start spouting distribution advocacy, wander over to ftp.kernel.org
    and look in the /pub/linux/v2.6/ directory for the same period, and
    you'll find there were 76 v2.6.x kernel releases. In both cases, the
    changes reflect improvements, added features, bug and security fixes
    and so on. Linux (and the Linux distributors) do not follow the
    microsoft model of a quarterly software update, but fix problems
    right away, even if the change is of minor nature that may only be
    important to a few users.

    >A distro that's four years old and which hasn't been updated is a sick
    >system waiting to blow up.


    This is sort of like the windoze user whose system was barely usable
    because it had so many viruses/trojans/spyware installed. When asked
    why the user hadn't installed the various anti-mal-ware programs
    (even the "free" ones available on the Internet), the user replied
    that "there was a demo version of Norton installed on this win98 box
    when it was bought [used] six years earlier - what more was needed?"
    Would _you_ have been able to answer without laughing for 5 minutes?

    Old guy

  12. Re: time sync? time servers give wrong time

    Moe Trin :
    >
    > Would _you_ have been able to answer without laughing for 5 minutes?


    "Sir, pack up your computer and take it back to the people you bought
    it from."

    "Okay, what do I tell them?"

    "That you're too stupid to own a computer."


    [stolen from a classic true story WP support call.]

    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  13. Re: time sync? time servers give wrong time

    Unruh wrote:

    >>That's all to true. A lot of people are using (and worse, running)
    >>computers and have absolutely no idea what it is doing, never mind how
    >>it is doing what it is. Some of the problem is the modern concept of
    >>"you don't need to know - I'll set things up do that they work". Of
    >>course, if the user needs to do anything other than click on one icon,
    >>then the user is out of luck.


    > So do you know in detail how your body works, how your mind works? Do you
    > understand the chemistry of all of the reactions in your body? And yet you
    > use it? Why not just kill yourself as incompetent to live?
    > Or do you feel that making it just work is more important that
    > understanding all of the details?
    > Why should they care how and why it does what it does. That is not their
    > job. A computer is a tool not a life.


    There is nothing wrong with using the computer as a tool.
    And there is also nothing wrong in trying to understand how it works.
    Linux offers both possibilities.
    It is important in my view to maintain a balance
    between these two aspects of the system.

    So while there should be clear instructions on how to use Linux,
    it is just as important to maintain access to the underlying mechanism,
    for those who want to look deeper into how things work.

    The alternative is a kind of priesthood who know how everything works,
    but only tell the ordinary user as much as the priesthood
    think they need to know.
    Like Microsoft, in fact.


    --
    Timothy Murphy
    e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
    tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
    s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

  14. Re: time sync? time servers give wrong time

    Unruh :
    > ibuprofin@painkiller.example.tld (Moe Trin) writes:
    > >
    > >That's all to true. A lot of people are using (and worse, running)
    > >computers and have absolutely no idea what it is doing, never mind how

    >
    > So do you know in detail how your body works, how your mind works? Do you


    The software we've developed in our heads since birth knows that stuff
    very well, or we'd not still be alive. Thankfully, intimate knowledge
    of quantum mechanics is not a life or death question.

    > Why should they care how and why it does what it does. That is not their
    > job. A computer is a tool not a life.


    Because there are many unintended consequences, from botnets, identity
    theft, creeps surfing for children, ... It's a tool, but it's an
    interconnected tool making connection after connection with $foo knows
    who. If one of those foos takes over that machine, the rest of us
    suffer.

    People like this are encouraged to drive cars, but they're expected to
    pass a driver's test first, and buy insurance to cover any victims
    they inconvenience.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

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