Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64 - Setup

This is a discussion on Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64 - Setup ; Hello, I am currently running linux-image-2.6.18-4-k7 on my old ASUS K8V SE Deluxe machine with an Athlon 64 3200+ 754 CPU (single core), 1 GB of RAM, etc. ( http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm.../computers.txt for my secondary computer specifications). It runs Debian r4 and ...

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Thread: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64

  1. Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64

    Hello,

    I am currently running linux-image-2.6.18-4-k7 on my old ASUS K8V SE
    Deluxe machine with an Athlon 64 3200+ 754 CPU (single core), 1 GB of
    RAM, etc. (http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm.../computers.txt for
    my secondary computer specifications). It runs Debian r4 and acts a
    workstation (no gaming) like surfing the Web, using e-mails, using
    newsgroups (Tin and Pan), IMs, IRC, some compilings (nothing major),
    download a lot, SSH from outside like at work, watch videos (online and
    locally) and DVDs, VMware v5.5.4 to test and use things, etc.

    I was wondering if I would get any advantages (even 1% faster speed) if
    I were to install and use AMD64 Kernel (linux-image-2.6.18-4-amd64).
    Will it break anything programs like 32-bit programs? I know I will have
    to recompile things like NVIDIA driver and VMware v5.5.4's drivers. I am
    not making my OS 100% 64-bit because I heard it is a hassle to compile
    both 32-bit and 64-bit programs which I do not have time for.

    In a couple years or more, I will put a dual core 939 Athlon 64 for this
    Debian. Who knows after that.

    Thank you in advance.
    --
    "Maybe it's like an ant hive..." "Bees man, bees have hives." "You know
    what I mean. It's like one female that runs the whole show." "Yes, the
    queen." "Yeah the mamma. She is bad*ss, man. I mean big." "These things
    ain't ants estupido." "I know that." --ALIENS movie
    /\___/\
    / /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
    | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
    \ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
    ( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
    Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.

  2. Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64

    Ant writes:
    >I am currently running linux-image-2.6.18-4-k7 on my old ASUS K8V SE
    >Deluxe machine with an Athlon 64 3200+ 754 CPU (single core), 1 GB of
    >RAM, etc. (http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm.../computers.txt for
    >my secondary computer specifications). It runs Debian r4 and acts a
    >workstation (no gaming) like surfing the Web, using e-mails, using
    >newsgroups (Tin and Pan), IMs, IRC, some compilings (nothing major),
    >download a lot, SSH from outside like at work, watch videos (online and
    >locally) and DVDs, VMware v5.5.4 to test and use things, etc.
    >
    >I was wondering if I would get any advantages (even 1% faster speed) if
    >I were to install and use AMD64 Kernel (linux-image-2.6.18-4-amd64).


    And continue to use the 32-bit userland? Probably not (not sure how
    it will affect VMware).

    One advantage of the 64-bit kernel for 32-bit programs is that the
    programs can get more virtual address space, but with 1GB RAM you
    probably don't need that. Otherwise, if you want to stay with a
    32-bit userland, I would not bother with the 64-bit kernel.

    >Will it break anything programs like 32-bit programs?


    I have noticed that strace does not work on 32-bit programs when
    running a 64-bit kernel. Apart from that all 32-bit stuff I have
    tested works.

    > I know I will have
    >to recompile things like NVIDIA driver and VMware v5.5.4's drivers.


    You probably will need a 64-bit userland or a 32-bit-to-64-bit
    cross-compiler for that.

    > I am
    >not making my OS 100% 64-bit because I heard it is a hassle to compile
    >both 32-bit and 64-bit programs which I do not have time for.


    It's pretty easy: Keep your existing 32-bit installation (in addition
    to installing a 64-bit installation), and when you want to compile a
    32-bit program, chroot to the 32-bit installation and compile the
    program there. Less hassle thanrecompiling your proprietary drivers
    and installing the 64-bit system in the first place.

    I have this board and one problem I have is that the 64-bit system
    hangs or reboots soon after the CPU load drops after or during reboot,
    unless I boot Windows first and let it run a minute or two, then
    reboot into Linux. If you use the 64-bit kernel and don't encounter
    this problem, let me know your BIOS version.

    Followups set to comp.os.linux.hardware.

    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
    http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

  3. Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64

    I demand that Anton Ertl may or may not have written...

    > Ant writes:
    >> I am currently running linux-image-2.6.18-4-k7 on my old ASUS K8V SE
    >> Deluxe machine with an Athlon 64 3200+ 754 CPU (single core), 1 GB of
    >> RAM, etc. [... with VMware]
    >> I was wondering if I would get any advantages (even 1% faster speed) if
    >> I were to install and use AMD64 Kernel (linux-image-2.6.18-4-amd64).

    [snip]
    >> Will it break anything programs like 32-bit programs?


    > I have noticed that strace does not work on 32-bit programs when running a
    > 64-bit kernel. [...]


    Works for me (2.6.21).

    >> I know I will have to recompile things like NVIDIA driver and VMware
    >> v5.5.4's drivers.


    > You probably will need a 64-bit userland or a 32-bit-to-64-bit
    > cross-compiler for that.


    It's called "gcc -m64". That said, given that the kernel configuration will
    for 64-bit, I wouldn't expect any problems (well, other than any problems
    that the taintware might bring).

    >> I am not making my OS 100% 64-bit because I heard it is a hassle to
    >> compile both 32-bit and 64-bit programs which I do not have time for.


    > It's pretty easy: Keep your existing 32-bit installation (in addition to
    > installing a 64-bit installation), and when you want to compile a 32-bit
    > program, chroot to the 32-bit installation and compile the program there.


    Or use pbuilder (if you're building .debs).

    [snip]
    > Followups set to comp.os.linux.hardware.


    Duly ignored. :-)

    --
    | Darren Salt | linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon
    | RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
    | + Output less CO2 => avoid boiling weather. TIME IS RUNNING OUT *FAST*.

    If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.

  4. Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64

    On 5/26/2007 5:59 AM PT, Darren Salt wrote:

    >>> I am currently running linux-image-2.6.18-4-k7 on my old ASUS K8V SE
    >>> Deluxe machine with an Athlon 64 3200+ 754 CPU (single core), 1 GB of
    >>> RAM, etc. [... with VMware]
    >>> I was wondering if I would get any advantages (even 1% faster speed) if
    >>> I were to install and use AMD64 Kernel (linux-image-2.6.18-4-amd64).

    > [snip]
    >>> Will it break anything programs like 32-bit programs?

    >
    >> I have noticed that strace does not work on 32-bit programs when running a
    >> 64-bit kernel. [...]

    >
    > Works for me (2.6.21).
    >
    >>> I know I will have to recompile things like NVIDIA driver and VMware
    >>> v5.5.4's drivers.

    >
    >> You probably will need a 64-bit userland or a 32-bit-to-64-bit
    >> cross-compiler for that.

    >
    > It's called "gcc -m64". That said, given that the kernel configuration will
    > for 64-bit, I wouldn't expect any problems (well, other than any problems
    > that the taintware might bring).
    >
    >>> I am not making my OS 100% 64-bit because I heard it is a hassle to
    >>> compile both 32-bit and 64-bit programs which I do not have time for.

    >
    >> It's pretty easy: Keep your existing 32-bit installation (in addition to
    >> installing a 64-bit installation), and when you want to compile a 32-bit
    >> program, chroot to the 32-bit installation and compile the program there.

    >
    > Or use pbuilder (if you're building .debs).


    I don't use pbuilder. I just do the basic ./configure ; make ; make
    install, but that's rare. I do use apt-get a lot and daily for upgrades.

    Hmm, this sounds like a lot of work. Maybe I won't upgrade Kernel to
    AMD64 then, and just stick with the good old 32-bit AMD-K7 one. I assume
    K7 is optimized for all AMD K7 CPUs (faster and better than the stock
    i386, i686, etc.).
    --
    "At high tide the fish eat ants; at low tide the ants eat fish." --Thai
    Proverb
    /\___/\
    / /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
    | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
    \ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
    ( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
    Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.

  5. Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64

    On May 26, 12:37 am, Ant wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I am currently running linux-image-2.6.18-4-k7 on my old ASUS K8V SE
    > Deluxe machine with an Athlon 64 3200+ 754 CPU (single core), 1 GB of
    > RAM, etc. (http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm...mputers.txtfor
    > my secondary computer specifications).


    Sounds like a nice machine.

    > It runs Debian r4 and acts a
    > workstation (no gaming) like surfing the Web, using e-mails, using
    > newsgroups (Tin and Pan), IMs, IRC, some compilings (nothing major),
    > download a lot, SSH from outside like at work, watch videos (online and
    > locally) and DVDs, VMware v5.5.4 to test and use things, etc.


    I would change to Debian/Etch (v 4.0) and not running Debian/Sarge (v
    3.2 r4)

    > I was wondering if I would get any advantages (even 1% faster speed) if
    > I were to install and use AMD64 Kernel (linux-image-2.6.18-4-amd64).
    > Will it break anything programs like 32-bit programs? I know I will have
    > to recompile things like NVIDIA driver and VMware v5.5.4's drivers. I am
    > not making my OS 100% 64-bit because I heard it is a hassle to compile
    > both 32-bit and 64-bit programs which I do not have time for.


    Just try it. There is no big deal to select kernelpackage when you
    install, and later kernel when you boot. You could have both packages
    installed at the same time.

    Switch to 64 bit just for it's own sake is only realy any advantage
    when you have programs that use lots of memory, or you have a machine
    with lots of RAM (like 2 GB RAM). Then there is advantages with 64-
    bit kernels. The 64-bit programs has a tendency to also need more RAM
    then same version in 32-bit.
    If you want to run 64 bit kernel and 32 bit application i should be
    that simple. But if you want to run all software, kernel and
    applications, in 64-bit mode, the easy way is to reinstall Debian.

    > In a couple years or more, I will put a dual core 939 Athlon 64 for this
    > Debian. Who knows after that.


    It will be at least quad core CPU:s then :-)

    > Thank you in advance.


    Good luck


  6. Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64

    On 5/29/2007 9:25 AM PT, AJackson wrote:

    >> I am currently running linux-image-2.6.18-4-k7 on my old ASUS K8V SE
    >> Deluxe machine with an Athlon 64 3200+ 754 CPU (single core), 1 GB of
    >> RAM, etc. (http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm...mputers.txtfor
    >> my secondary computer specifications).

    >
    > Sounds like a nice machine.


    Yeah, but it's not that fast. It's good for non-gaming and anything not
    requiring heavy usage.


    >> It runs Debian r4 and acts a
    >> workstation (no gaming) like surfing the Web, using e-mails, using
    >> newsgroups (Tin and Pan), IMs, IRC, some compilings (nothing major),
    >> download a lot, SSH from outside like at work, watch videos (online and
    >> locally) and DVDs, VMware v5.5.4 to test and use things, etc.

    >
    > I would change to Debian/Etch (v 4.0) and not running Debian/Sarge (v
    > 3.2 r4)


    Oops, my text/console login screens doesn't say that anymore. I have
    Lenny/Sid now. I assume that is Etch. All these codenames can be confusing!


    >> I was wondering if I would get any advantages (even 1% faster speed) if
    >> I were to install and use AMD64 Kernel (linux-image-2.6.18-4-amd64).
    >> Will it break anything programs like 32-bit programs? I know I will have
    >> to recompile things like NVIDIA driver and VMware v5.5.4's drivers. I am
    >> not making my OS 100% 64-bit because I heard it is a hassle to compile
    >> both 32-bit and 64-bit programs which I do not have time for.

    >
    > Just try it. There is no big deal to select kernelpackage when you
    > install, and later kernel when you boot. You could have both packages
    > installed at the same time.


    Yeah, I was aware of having multiple Kernels. I was asking to see if it
    was worth the time and effort. I haven't installed it or tried it yet
    due to lack of free time (notice I am late in replying to this!).


    > Switch to 64 bit just for it's own sake is only realy any advantage
    > when you have programs that use lots of memory, or you have a machine
    > with lots of RAM (like 2 GB RAM). Then there is advantages with 64-


    Ah, I guess I won't bother at this time with this old 64-bit machine
    that only has 1 GB of RAM. I will save it for the next hardware (2 GB of
    RAM -- might be able to add more from the 754 box since they use the
    same DRAM type).


    > bit kernels. The 64-bit programs has a tendency to also need more RAM
    > then same version in 32-bit.
    > If you want to run 64 bit kernel and 32 bit application i should be
    > that simple. But if you want to run all software, kernel and
    > applications, in 64-bit mode, the easy way is to reinstall Debian.


    Do all 32-bit programs exist in 64-bit or will I have to compile them
    myself? What I like about Debian is the premade compiled packages via
    apt-get. For example, I don't see a 64-bit Pan, Tin, BitchX, KDE,
    Gaim/Pidgeon, Lopster, aMule, Mplayer, Xine, IceApe (SeaMonkey), VMware
    v5.5.4, XMMS, etc.


    >> In a couple years or more, I will put a dual core 939 Athlon 64 for this
    >> Debian. Who knows after that.

    >
    > It will be at least quad core CPU:s then :-)


    That will be my gaming box first. [grin]
    --
    "What, like I had to live with all those ants? Do you know what I did to
    those ants? HoooHooo! No more ants!" --unknown
    /\___/\
    / /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
    | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
    \ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
    ( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
    Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.

  7. Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64

    Ant writes:
    >On 5/29/2007 9:25 AM PT, AJackson wrote:
    >> I would change to Debian/Etch (v 4.0) and not running Debian/Sarge (v
    >> 3.2 r4)

    >
    >Oops, my text/console login screens doesn't say that anymore. I have
    >Lenny/Sid now. I assume that is Etch. All these codenames can be confusing!


    Sarge, Etch, Lenny, and Sid are all different tracks. Currently these
    correspond to:

    oldstable=Sarge
    stable=Etch
    testing=Lenny
    unstable=Sid (Sid is always unstable)

    >Do all 32-bit programs exist in 64-bit or will I have to compile them
    >myself?


    Among free software programs, nearly all have 64-bit ports.

    > What I like about Debian is the premade compiled packages via
    >apt-get. For example, I don't see a 64-bit Pan, Tin, BitchX, KDE,
    >Gaim/Pidgeon, Lopster, aMule, Mplayer, Xine, IceApe (SeaMonkey), VMware
    >v5.5.4, XMMS, etc.


    Of these programs I have only installed xine and xmms, and both of
    them are 64-bit executables.

    You can check particular packages by looking at the page of the
    package. E.g., for XMMS in unstable:
    .

    Followups set to alt.os.linux.debian.

    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
    http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

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