Floppy Install Problem, Old Box - Setup

This is a discussion on Floppy Install Problem, Old Box - Setup ; I am trying to net-install Debian Sarge on an old P1 133MHz box with Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS - there is no CD booting allowed, no USB ports. When I try to start the machine with the boot diskette inserted, ...

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Thread: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

  1. Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    I am trying to net-install Debian Sarge on an old P1 133MHz box with
    Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS - there is no CD booting allowed, no USB ports.

    When I try to start the machine with the boot diskette inserted, I get a
    "Boot Failed" error.

    This is the consistent failure using numerous diskettes that I created on
    two different machines. I think I'm creating them correctly - dd'ing to
    an unmounted device.

    Is there any other way to get this machine running to install Linux?

    I'm looking to set this box up as a NAT/firewall - is this machine going
    to be too slow for that purpose?

  2. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:42:55 -0600, God Bless Texas wrote:

    >I am trying to net-install Debian Sarge on an old P1 133MHz box with
    >Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS - there is no CD booting allowed, no USB ports.
    >
    >When I try to start the machine with the boot diskette inserted, I get a
    >"Boot Failed" error.


    Wonder if floppy boot enabled in BIOS?
    >
    >This is the consistent failure using numerous diskettes that I created on
    >two different machines. I think I'm creating them correctly - dd'ing to
    >an unmounted device.
    >
    >Is there any other way to get this machine running to install Linux?


    Pull the hard drive into another machine and either install there or
    copy the install source onto the drive -- I don't do debian

    Grant.
    --
    http://bugsplatter.mine.nu/

  3. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    In God Bless Texas:

    > I am trying to net-install Debian Sarge on an old P1 133MHz box with
    > Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS - there is no CD booting allowed, no USB ports.
    >
    > When I try to start the machine with the boot diskette inserted, I get a
    > "Boot Failed" error.


    Shot in the dark...

    How much RAM? A machine that dated may have only 32 MB RAM (or less). I'm
    not sure about Sarge, but many recent distros require at least 128 MB for
    even 1st stage install booting.

    > I'm looking to set this box up as a NAT/firewall - is this machine going
    > to be too slow for that purpose?


    No, it should be fine, but you may want a more specific distro trimmed to
    do more limited tasks. Sarge may be too big and generic for that (?).

    If you look at

    http://www.linuxlinks.com/Distributions/Floppy/

    or (watch the linewrap)

    http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/O...Distributions/
    Tiny/Floppy_Sized/

    there may be specific NAT/Firewall systems more tuned to your details. It
    is likely Googling for such may also provide some useful tips.

    *BSD systems may offer an alternate route if Linux seems too limited.

    HTH; YMMV...

    --
    Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
    Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
    Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
    Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.

  4. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:00:08 +0000, Harold Stevens wrote:
    >
    > Shot in the dark...
    >
    > How much RAM? A machine that dated may have only 32 MB RAM (or less). I'm


    64MB - not a lot, but enough per the Debian Installation Notes.
    >
    > If you look at
    > http://www.linuxlinks.com/Distributions/Floppy/
    >
    > or (watch the linewrap)
    > http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/O...Distributions/
    > Tiny/Floppy_Sized/
    >
    > there may be specific NAT/Firewall systems more tuned to your details.
    > It is likely Googling for such may also provide some useful tips.
    >
    > *BSD systems may offer an alternate route if Linux seems too limited.


    Thanks for the pointers, I had not considered a shorty version.

    I've steered clear of BSD for some reason . . . it may be time!


  5. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 06:55:24 +1100, Grant wrote:

    >>When I try to start the machine with the boot diskette inserted, I get a
    >>"Boot Failed" error.

    >
    > Wonder if floppy boot enabled in BIOS?


    Yep, that was about the third thing I checked. ;-)

    > Pull the hard drive into another machine and either install there or
    > copy the install source onto the drive -- I don't do debian


    Ouch. Thanks though.

  6. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:42:55 -0600, God Bless Texas wrote:

    > I am trying to net-install Debian Sarge on an old P1 133MHz box with
    > Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS - there is no CD booting allowed, no USB ports.


    You could try using a Smart Boot Manager floppy to boot the first install
    CD: http://btmgr.sourceforge.net IIRR.

  7. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:45:46 +0100, mark south wrote:

    > On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:42:55 -0600, God Bless Texas wrote:
    >
    >> I am trying to net-install Debian Sarge on an old P1 133MHz box with
    >> Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS - there is no CD booting allowed, no USB ports.

    >
    > You could try using a Smart Boot Manager floppy to boot the first install
    > CD: http://btmgr.sourceforge.net IIRR.
    >

    I'll second this advice. This may be enough of a jump start to get your
    install started, that is, if the only problem is that the CD is not
    bootable by the BIOS, the SmartBootManager will allow booting starting
    from a floppy. I posted a SBM bootable image, as explained here:
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....6c561db0f77fa9

    --
    Douglas Mayne


  8. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:34:40 -0700, Douglas Mayne wrote:

    > On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:45:46 +0100, mark south wrote:
    >>
    >> You could try using a Smart Boot Manager floppy to boot the first install
    >> CD: http://btmgr.sourceforge.net IIRR.
    >>

    > I'll second this advice.


    This looks great - I'll try tonight or tomorrow. Thanks.

  9. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:46:52 -0600, God Bless Texas wrote:
    >
    > This looks great - I'll try tonight or tomorrow. Thanks.


    Grrr. This is where the Linux experience sometimes leaves me gasping.

    I'm not a C coder.

    What do you suppose is the proper response when the installation returns
    (blank lines inserted):

    make[1]: Entering directory `/home/USERID/Downloads/btmgr-3.7-1/manager'

    nasm -DSHOW_DRV_NAME -DSLOW_ATAPI_DEVICE -DCOMPRESS_SBM -DY2K_BUGFIX
    -DSTRICT_PART_CHECK -fbin -o edd30.bin edd30.asm

    edd30.asm:1140: error: symbol `..@205.ifnot3' undefined

    edd30.asm:1181: error: symbol `..@266.ifnot2' undefined

    edd30.asm:1381: error: symbol `..@439.ifnot2' undefined

    edd30.asm:1609: error: symbol `..@679.ifnot2' undefined

    edd30.asm:1896: error: phase error detected at end of assembly.

    make[1]: *** [edd30.bin] Error 1

    make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/USERID/Downloads/btmgr-3.7-1/manager'

    make: *** [install] Error 2

    Is this some configuration problem in nasm that I introduced somehow when
    I installed it, or is the code old/bugged?

  10. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:37:38 -0600, God Bless Texas wrote:
    >
    > I'm not a C coder.


    Er, um, actually an assembler coder.

    Only I used to be, but they don't make those machines anymore. :-/

  11. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    God Bless Texas wrote:
    >

    .... snip ...
    >
    > What do you suppose is the proper response when the installation
    > returns (blank lines inserted):
    >
    > make[1]: Entering directory `/home/USERID/Downloads/btmgr-3.7-1/manager'
    >
    > nasm -DSHOW_DRV_NAME -DSLOW_ATAPI_DEVICE -DCOMPRESS_SBM -DY2K_BUGFIX
    > -DSTRICT_PART_CHECK -fbin -o edd30.bin edd30.asm
    >
    > edd30.asm:1140: error: symbol `..@205.ifnot3' undefined


    I think it is fairly obvious. The assembler is nasm, called with
    the options shown, and it found undefined items in the sourcefile
    edd30.asm. The first such occured at line 1140, and the symbol was
    @205.ifnot3. I suspect you will find the files involved in
    /home/USERID/Downloads/btmgr-3.7-1/manager.

    Don't panic. Read. info nasm or info make may be of help.

    --


    "A man who is right every time is not likely to do very much."
    -- Francis Crick, co-discover of DNA
    "There is nothing more amazing than stupidity in action."
    -- Thomas Matthews



  12. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:37:38 -0600, God Bless Texas wrote:

    > On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:46:52 -0600, God Bless Texas wrote:
    >>
    >> This looks great - I'll try tonight or tomorrow. Thanks.

    >
    > Grrr. This is where the Linux experience sometimes leaves me gasping.
    >
    > I'm not a C coder.
    >
    > What do you suppose is the proper response when the installation returns
    > (blank lines inserted):
    >
    > make[1]: Entering directory `/home/USERID/Downloads/btmgr-3.7-1/manager'
    >
    > nasm -DSHOW_DRV_NAME -DSLOW_ATAPI_DEVICE -DCOMPRESS_SBM -DY2K_BUGFIX
    > -DSTRICT_PART_CHECK -fbin -o edd30.bin edd30.asm
    >
    > edd30.asm:1140: error: symbol `..@205.ifnot3' undefined
    >



    > make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/USERID/Downloads/btmgr-3.7-1/manager'
    >
    > make: *** [install] Error 2
    >
    > Is this some configuration problem in nasm that I introduced somehow when
    > I installed it, or is the code old/bugged?
    >

    I think there is more likely a problem with the build environment, than
    with SBM's source code. I think when I saw that building SBM required its
    own assembler for its build environment, I decided that using a
    precompiled binary was fine for my purpose. IIRC, other people have had
    trouble assembling SBM, too. If you "skip" the assembler, then you can get
    back to testing if SBM will actually solve your problem. If you want to do
    it for yourself, then I used this Wiki as a guide:
    http://gentoo-wiki.com/TIP_Chainload...-ROM_from_GRUB

    I made a bootable floppy image (binary), which I referenced in my previous
    post:
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....6c561db0f77fa9

    The solution SBM provides is fairly esoteric because modern BIOSs
    don't require the trick. But if you proceed building SBM from scratch
    and are able to get it working, then please post the details for posterity.

    --
    Douglas Mayne

  13. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:25:41 -0500, CBFalconer wrote:

    > I think it is fairly obvious. The assembler is nasm, called with
    > the options shown, and it found undefined items in the sourcefile
    > edd30.asm. The first such occured at line 1140, and the symbol was
    > @205.ifnot3. I suspect you will find the files involved in
    > /home/USERID/Downloads/btmgr-3.7-1/manager.


    Sorry, Linux noob but not computer noob - the lines indicated contained
    the "end" statement for a blockif. No symbol such as those listed was
    anywhere near the lines in the assembler source.

    > Don't panic. Read. info nasm or info make may be of help.


    Yes but . . . all I want to do is run the durned program, not learn a new
    assembler so that I can debug it.

    Thanks anyway.


  14. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    God Bless Texas wrote:
    > On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:46:52 -0600, God Bless Texas wrote:
    >>


    [ compiling btmgr ]

    > What do you suppose is the proper response when the installation returns

    [...]
    > nasm -DSHOW_DRV_NAME -DSLOW_ATAPI_DEVICE -DCOMPRESS_SBM -DY2K_BUGFIX
    > -DSTRICT_PART_CHECK -fbin -o edd30.bin edd30.asm
    > edd30.asm:1140: error: symbol `..@205.ifnot3' undefined
    > edd30.asm:1181: error: symbol `..@266.ifnot2' undefined
    > edd30.asm:1381: error: symbol `..@439.ifnot2' undefined
    > edd30.asm:1609: error: symbol `..@679.ifnot2' undefined
    > edd30.asm:1896: error: phase error detected at end of assembly.

    [...]
    > Is this some configuration problem in nasm that I introduced somehow when
    > I installed it, or is the code old/bugged?


    Old macros (in manager/helptool.h). Brute force and ignorance appear to
    work:

    mv manager/edd30.asm manager/edd30.asm.dud &&
    nasm -DSHOW_DRV_NAME -DSLOW_ATAPI_DEVICE -DCOMPRESS_SBM \
    -DY2K_BUGFIX -DSTRICT_PART_CHECK \
    -Imanager/ -e manager/edd30.asm.dud |
    sed -e 's/\.\.@205\.ifnot3/..@205.ifnot/' \
    -e 's/\.\.@266\.ifnot2/..@266.ifnot/' \
    -e 's/\.\.@439\.ifnot2/..@439.ifnot/' \
    -e 's/\.\.@679\.ifnot2/..@679.ifnot/' > manager/edd30.asm &&
    make

    [ Followup-To: set to comp.os.linux.setup ]

  15. Re: Floppy Install Problem, Old Box

    On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 08:03:13 -0700, Douglas Mayne wrote:
    >
    > I made a bootable floppy image (binary), which I referenced in my
    > previous post:
    > http://groups.google.com/group/comp....6c561db0f77fa9


    Thanks Douglas - I went to the source instead of your link.

    Once I got your file onto the floppy, it booted fine, but there was a
    *long* delay between the menu selection from Grub (I guess) and the actual
    SBM menu.

    I got PO'd and rebooted a few times, grumbled and searched around the
    Internet, then finally went to bed. A couple of days later I flipped back
    over to that machine and *hey presto* there was the SBM menu.

    > The solution SBM provides is fairly esoteric because modern BIOSs don't
    > require the trick. But if you proceed building SBM from scratch and are
    > able to get it working, then please post the details for posterity.


    Nope, the binary worked great. Now if I could just get something to
    recognize the NIC . . .

    Thanks again.

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