does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals? - SCO

This is a discussion on does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals? - SCO ; .. I was looking at an old copy of facetterm, and remembered what a great product that was/is. I realized that I hadn't sold facetterm in years because I hadn't sold a dumb terminal (wyse60ish) for years. I only setup ...

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  1. does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals?

    ..

    I was looking at an old copy of facetterm, and remembered what a great
    product that was/is. I realized that I hadn't sold facetterm in years
    because I hadn't sold a dumb terminal (wyse60ish) for years. I only
    setup telnet from dumb PCs these days.

    So I started wondering....

    How many people still buy dumb terminals?

    Locally, Nebraska Furniture Mart (a Warren Buffet Co.) still uses them
    for their POS on their huge sales floors (believe it or not). But I
    haven't seen one elsewhere in many years.

    I've seen wyse terminals on EBay, but they never seem to sell.

    Ironically, the dumb terminal was pretty smart. The user's could NOT
    load funky screen savers, and they didn't have *.DLL files that got
    replaced with every new video game. The only thing to go wrong was a
    smoked main board or zapped serial port. Whereas the "smart" PC has
    been a good source of job security for many-a-pseudo-tech. LOL. KISS
    still works.

    When I started talking clients into buying PCs for clients, it was for
    the management personnel that wanted Microsoft Office Graphics
    applications. It was a good match, but now all clients have morphed
    into windows. Funny thing is that the #1 graphics application that
    killed dumb terminals has been Email (imo). Unix never did develope a
    user friendly email system, or system administrator friendly either. I
    only recently found an email for SCO that doen't require a slide rule
    and a case of Bawls to set it up - and it is for sending only.



    That's one thing the PC world still needs. A dumb terminal. But the
    price would have to compete with $300 Compaqs. IMO: the cost savings
    over the life of the terminal would probably justify spending $1000 per
    terminal.

    *** end of editorial ***


  2. Re: does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals?

    XeniXman wrote:

    >
    > That's one thing the PC world still needs. A dumb terminal. But the
    > price would have to compete with $300 Compaqs. IMO: the cost savings
    > over the life of the terminal would probably justify spending $1000 per
    > terminal.
    >
    > *** end of editorial ***
    >


    Most of the people who were in the dumb terminal market have moved to
    todays X/Citrix/Terminal Server thin client terminal.

    You can buy reconditioned terminals at http://www.vecmar.com

    --
    Tony Lawrence
    Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
    Geek Yard Sale: http://geekyardsale.com

  3. Re: does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals?

    On Tue, Oct 11, 2005, Tony Lawrence wrote:
    >XeniXman wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>That's one thing the PC world still needs. A dumb terminal. But the
    >>price would have to compete with $300 Compaqs. IMO: the cost savings
    >>over the life of the terminal would probably justify spending $1000 per
    >>terminal.
    >>
    >>*** end of editorial ***
    >>

    >
    >Most of the people who were in the dumb terminal market have moved to
    >todays X/Citrix/Terminal Server thin client terminal.


    We used diskless Linux boxes in place of dumb terminals from 1997 until the
    hardware started failing a year or so ago. The hardware for these was less
    expensive than new Wyse, Links, or similar terminals. The first ones we
    installed booted Caldera OpenLinux 1.x from SCO OpenServer boxes.

    As the price of hardware decreased we were using stand alone Linux boxes,
    most recently the ones from Fry's Electronics that typically go on sale for
    about $180USD. These were easier to maintain than dealing with the server
    setup necessary to support diskless desktops with current software.

    Most recently we have been installing Mac Minis plugged into the existing
    Monitors.

    All of these are used largely to run accounting software on a *nix server
    in the back room. They run xterms with secure shell.

    One consideration keeping dumb terminals is that often the *nix server is
    connected to dumb terminals with old intelligent multiport boards which are
    either unsupported on current versions of *nix, or are ISA boards -- and
    there aren't too many mother boards available today with ISA support.

    I'm dealing with one of these systems now where they have several dumb
    terminals in an office and warehouse connecting to an OpenServer 5.0.4 box
    with Specialix ISA card. The server's about six years old now, and due for
    replacement. We're probably going to put in a wireless access point by the
    server, and replace the dumb terminals with Mac Minis or perhaps eMacs
    using wireless instead of replacing incompatible wiring.

    Bill
    --
    INTERNET: bill@Celestial.COM Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
    UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
    FAX: (206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676
    URL: http://www.celestial.com/

    ``The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be
    properly armed.''
    -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

  4. Re: does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals?

    In article <1129046834.726795.301700@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
    XeniXman wrote:
    >.
    >
    >I was looking at an old copy of facetterm, and remembered what a great
    >product that was/is. I realized that I hadn't sold facetterm in years
    >because I hadn't sold a dumb terminal (wyse60ish) for years. I only
    >setup telnet from dumb PCs these days.


    >So I started wondering....


    >How many people still buy dumb terminals?


    Not very many.

    I'd pick them up when they were going to be dumped. And now I'm
    about to dump them too.

    I have 3 Wyse 50s, and 3 Wyse 75s, but I'm keeping my 160.

    The 75's are similar to the Radio Shack but with the 20ma interface
    in addition to the serial.

    I'll keep at least one in case I ever get around to bringing up
    my CP/M 2.2 on a hybrid Vector Graphics / CCS system.

    It made more sense to run PCs with terminal emulators in most
    instances - as you could get two jobs done - one for the PC and one
    as a terminal and only take up one spot on the table.

    The most bizarre place I had used a serial connection to the Xenix
    systems, a special interface on the second serial port to connect
    to the TDI interfaces on a Sperry/Burroughs system, and also a
    standalone PC.

    Not everyone one there had one of those but many had two terminals
    on their desk - so they got a terminal- whose name I forget - that
    handled both ASCII for the Xenix system, and TDI for the Burroughs.

    A firmware upgrade on that was a disaster. Depending on what you
    did the numeric keypad would go into application mode instead of
    numeric. A call after that said they wanted umpteen $$ for
    replacement ROMS to fix that. That was bizarre wanting to charge
    money to fix a free upgrade that broke previous operational modes.
    So the head of the department [who was also in charge of the $3
    million Burroughs] called them and said they had better get free
    upgrades or he'd see they'd get removed from the State list of
    approved vendors. New working ROMS arrived a week later. Not
    everyone has clout like that.


    The neatest terminal I saw - but they never got it fully debugged -
    and it used a keyboard plug in module to change personalities
    was one from Link - not a standard well known terminal.

    It had two serial ports for connection to two systems. It also
    had built in buffers for each serial port.

    You could, as an example, open up vi on two different systems.
    Then you could mark a section in vi [I don't recall if it used
    cursor keys to highlight or if it had a mouse] and hit a key and
    paste it directly into the vi that was open on the other machine.

    It was probable one of the slickest terminals in the idea
    department, but the implementation was shaky.

    I had a Link 10, that I don't think did the above, and got a
    firmware upgrade, and things went down hill rapidly. I'd be typing
    along and characters would reverse positions as I typed.

    It was the ones as the cursor that were flipping, so a complaint
    elicited another ROM that fixed that. But they never got it fully
    debugged and finally took it off the market.

    So when someone sees a terminal who has never seen one before do
    they ask where do you put in the CD/DVD ?? :-)

    Bill
    --
    Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com

  5. Re: does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals?

    Bill Vermillion wrote:

    >
    > The neatest terminal I saw - but they never got it fully debugged -
    > and it used a keyboard plug in module to change personalities
    > was one from Link - not a standard well known terminal.



    Ah, the Link's: I had several customers who though the name of their
    system was "Link". I'd get calls like "Link is down this morning" and
    they didn't mean a vpn :-)

    --
    Tony Lawrence
    Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
    Geek Yard Sale: http://geekyardsale.com

  6. Re: does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals?

    XeniXman wrote:
    > ..
    >
    > I was looking at an old copy of facetterm, and remembered what a great
    > product that was/is. I realized that I hadn't sold facetterm in years
    > because I hadn't sold a dumb terminal (wyse60ish) for years. I only
    > setup telnet from dumb PCs these days.
    >
    > So I started wondering....
    >
    > How many people still buy dumb terminals?
    >



    It is many many years since I bought any, but it looks like VT510's can
    still be purchased from Boundless.
    http://www.boundless.com/text%20terminals.htm

    Wyse 55, 150 etc also still seem to be available for purchase.
    http://www.wyse.com/products/gpt/index.htm

  7. Re: does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals?

    Tony Lawrence wrote:
    > Bill Vermillion wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > The neatest terminal I saw - but they never got it fully debugged -
    > > and it used a keyboard plug in module to change personalities
    > > was one from Link - not a standard well known terminal.

    >
    >
    > Ah, the Link's: I had several customers who though the name of their
    > system was "Link". I'd get calls like "Link is down this morning" and
    > they didn't mean a vpn :-)
    >
    > --
    > Tony Lawrence
    > Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
    > Geek Yard Sale: http://geekyardsale.com



    Salesman: Do you know what kind of computers your company uses?
    Receptionist: Wyse 50s.


    I once had a customer that was fond of an Esprit terminal that
    had 2 serial ports. We tied them both to the same system, so that
    he could hot key between sessions. But he was jealous of his
    receptionist
    who had 12 sessions on the sco console.

    Another customer used FacetTerm with his CRTs, and when he upgraded to
    PCs and FacetWIN, he kept using FacetTerm. He'd open a FacetWIN
    session,
    and within that, he'd have 10 FacetTerm sessions. He was a 1 man show
    with
    about 4 PCs scattered through his shop and warehouse with dozens of
    sessions running all over the place. Talk about multitasking! But if
    the
    phone rings while I'm writing this, it might not get posted for a week
    ;-)

    Regards,
    Dan Martin


  8. Re: does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals?

    Brian K. White wrote:
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Bill Vermillion"
    > Newsgroups: comp.unix.sco.misc
    > To:
    > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:05 PM
    > Subject: Re: does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals?
    >

    ..
    ..

    ..

    > > It was the ones as the cursor that were flipping, so a complaint
    > > elicited another ROM that fixed that. But they never got it fully
    > > debugged and finally took it off the market.
    > >
    > > So when someone sees a terminal who has never seen one before do
    > > they ask where do you put in the CD/DVD ?? :-)

    >

    ..
    ..
    ..

    >
    > I took the little ITX motherboard from a $300 WalMart Lindows machine that
    > served as a FacetPhone server for 2 or 3 years (running right on the
    > original Lindows install thanks to how easy it is to use apt-get on the
    > debian based Lindows)
    > and stuffed the motherboard, sans hard drive or floppy, into the nice blue
    > painted steel box of an old Netgear hub.
    > There was even room for the power supply right inside the case after
    > relocating a couple big filter caps a little, just enough to lay them down,
    > and the case already had the standard 3 prong ac power jack and I ripped the
    > uplink/standard button off the hubs original circuit board, pulled out it's
    > ratchet-on-off clip so it's now a momentary button, and made it into the
    > power switch. Ripped out the two noisy old 1 inch fans and put in one
    > larger, slower, thermal controlled, quiet fan. Connect it to the vga port
    > of my TV, add a wireless keyboard with built-in mouse and it makes a neat
    > addition to my entertinment center.
    > http://www.aljex.com/bkw/hubpc/Photo_061805_022.jpg
    > http://www.aljex.com/bkw/hubpc/Photo_061805_027.jpg
    > http://www.aljex.com/bkw/hubpc/Photo_062005_001.jpg
    > (my cell phone takes pretty poor pictures, deal.)


    Brian, do you by any chance have a dog named Gromit?

    Regards,
    Dan Martin
    >
    > Brian K. White -- brian@aljex.com -- http://www.aljex.com/bkw/
    > +++++[>+++[>+++++>+++++++<<-]<-]>>+.>.+++++.+++++++.-.[>+<---]>++.
    > filePro BBx Linux SCO FreeBSD #callahans Satriani Filk!



  9. Re: does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals?

    In article <1129124210.521369.109270@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
    Dan Martin wrote:
    >Tony Lawrence wrote:
    >> Bill Vermillion wrote:
    >>


    >> > The neatest terminal I saw - but they never got it fully debugged -
    >> > and it used a keyboard plug in module to change personalities
    >> > was one from Link - not a standard well known terminal.

    >>
    >>
    >> Ah, the Link's: I had several customers who though the name of their
    >> system was "Link". I'd get calls like "Link is down this morning" and
    >> they didn't mean a vpn :-)
    >>
    >> --
    >> Tony Lawrence
    >> Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
    >> Geek Yard Sale: http://geekyardsale.com

    >


    >Salesman: Do you know what kind of computers your company uses?
    >Receptionist: Wyse 50s.


    >I once had a customer that was fond of an Esprit terminal that
    >had 2 serial ports. We tied them both to the same system, so that
    >he could hot key between sessions. But he was jealous of his
    >receptionist
    >who had 12 sessions on the sco console.


    I did this but for a slightly different reason. Two programs
    reacted differently to the terminals, so I made two logins for the
    people in the adminstrators office.

    Then each session set up the terminal in the way best for the
    application. AIR the app was one of those older ones that diddled
    things outside the OS.

    Bill
    --
    Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com

  10. Re: does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals?


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Dan Martin"
    Newsgroups: comp.unix.sco.misc
    To:
    Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 9:43 AM
    Subject: Re: does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals?


    >> [...]
    >> I took the little ITX motherboard from a $300 WalMart Lindows machine
    >> [...]
    >> and stuffed [it] into the nice blue painted steel box of an old Netgear
    >> hub.
    >> [...]
    >> http://www.aljex.com/bkw/hubpc/Photo_061805_022.jpg
    >> http://www.aljex.com/bkw/hubpc/Photo_061805_027.jpg
    >> http://www.aljex.com/bkw/hubpc/Photo_062005_001.jpg

    >
    > Brian, do you by any chance have a dog named Gromit?
    >
    > Regards,
    > Dan Martin


    I've never even heard of Wensleydale cheese, and yet I am strangely drawn to
    it...

    I've never seen those films btw, but when I googled up the reference, they
    look fun.
    Thanks.

    Brian K. White -- brian@aljex.com -- http://www.aljex.com/bkw/
    +++++[>+++[>+++++>+++++++<<-]<-]>>+.>.+++++.+++++++.-.[>+<---]>++.
    filePro BBx Linux SCO FreeBSD #callahans Satriani Filk!


  11. Re: does anyone still sell/buy dumb terminals?

    On Wed, Oct 12, 2005, Bill Vermillion wrote:
    >In article <1129124210.521369.109270@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,

    ....
    >>I once had a customer that was fond of an Esprit terminal that
    >>had 2 serial ports. We tied them both to the same system, so that
    >>he could hot key between sessions. But he was jealous of his
    >>receptionist
    >>who had 12 sessions on the sco console.

    >
    >I did this but for a slightly different reason. Two programs
    >reacted differently to the terminals, so I made two logins for the
    >people in the adminstrators office.
    >
    >Then each session set up the terminal in the way best for the
    >application. AIR the app was one of those older ones that diddled
    >things outside the OS.


    I have a customer with a FilePro application that gets down and dirty with
    the dumb terminal, reprogramming the function keys on a Radio Shack DT-100.
    The application has a fundamental problem -- parts of it are written in C,
    compiled for x286 Xenix (and of course the author is long gone and there's
    now source code available :-).

    It took some serious fiddling to see what this application was doing, but
    after a bit, I got it to run properly in xterms from Linux and Apple OS X.
    The trick was to write a C shim program that runs the application via two
    pipes in two forks, one to read input from the terminal mapping the keys
    pressed to the application, the other to read the application's output,
    remapping the function keys in shared memory when it sees the DT-100
    function key programming codes.

    Bill
    --
    INTERNET: bill@Celestial.COM Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
    UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
    FAX: (206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676
    URL: http://www.celestial.com/

    ``Perhaps, when committing your first federal crime, it would be unwise to
    slap your name and address on it and mail it to 10,000 people.'' --Dogbert

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