Double Vision - Tridia. - SCO

This is a discussion on Double Vision - Tridia. - SCO ; (Dan Martin) 15.09.05 in /comp/unix/sco/misc: >Another consideration for Robin is that Iomega (I think still) bundles >Yomesite backup software, but only with the SCSI REV. >I believe this is the only Windows backup software bundled >with the various REV models ...

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Thread: Double Vision - Tridia.

  1. Re: BackEdge vs. LoneTar [Was: Re: Double Vision - Tridia]

    (Dan Martin) 15.09.05 in /comp/unix/sco/misc:

    >Another consideration for Robin is that Iomega (I think still) bundles
    >Yomesite backup software, but only with the SCSI REV.
    >I believe this is the only Windows backup software bundled
    >with the various REV models
    >that allows a "bare metal" restore of windows.



    My 60MB QIC tapes can still be read...(at least theoretically, if i would
    need the historical data... ) and today they are good for 50GB+, native!

    Only the the DDS-1 tapes become diffcult to be read meanwhile.
    (But DDS-1 was always a bad thing. (Not DDS-2 or DDS-3).)

    The devices were (relative) expensive, but the were worth every euro!
    (The (scsi) SLR-100 drive is about 1000Euro...)


    If you can't remember what's the problem with IOmega and
    why i would never recommand to use IOmega products:
    Google does not forget, just type
    "iomega problem"
    "Klick of death" etc...


    Don't start saving money at the backup layer if you have
    any data of any relevance!

    Buy a smaler computer, less and lower clocked CPUs, lesser RAM,
    smaller disks, but not a *cheap* backup system if your etat is limited.


    Rainer


    PS:
    I assume it shows micronet professionality not to support IOmega REV devices.
    So not support "REV" is a "pro" of Backup edge, as it shows that
    micronet takes it customers data serious.
    (I use BE 2.0 and are very satified with the software and teh technical
    support. Next tiem i have time i will upgrade as i am really missing
    the "backup over network to ftp server" feature.)


  2. Re: BackEdge vs. LoneTar [Was: Re: Double Vision - Tridia]

    (Dan Martin) 14.09.05 in /comp/unix/sco/misc:


    >Check with Iomega about the SCSI REV, but I don't think it is designed
    >to be moved from, or attached to, a running system.


    What is true for EVERY SCSI device!
    SCSI is -by default- not hotplugable.
    The SCSI specs only say a SCSI device been powered off or
    on must not distrub the BUS!
    That is often missinterpreted as SCSI device can be plugged
    to a "hot" Bus. That's not true and may cause hard to detect data corruption
    or hardware defects.

    OTHO:
    If the device is on a only BUS, only that bus can be disturbed or destroyed.
    So the risk is limited...

    USB OTOH is "hot plugable".


    I really wonder why there are so few USB or Firewire tape streamers?
    Because all servers have SCSI and the vendors like to sell a
    tape for each computer instead one "moving" arround?

    Rainer

  3. Re: BackEdge vs. LoneTar [Was: Re: Double Vision - Tridia]


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Rainer Zocholl"
    Newsgroups: comp.unix.sco.misc
    To:
    Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 8:26 AM
    Subject: Re: BackEdge vs. LoneTar [Was: Re: Double Vision - Tridia]


    > (Dan Martin) 14.09.05 in /comp/unix/sco/misc:
    >
    >
    >>Check with Iomega about the SCSI REV, but I don't think it is designed
    >>to be moved from, or attached to, a running system.

    >
    > What is true for EVERY SCSI device!
    > SCSI is -by default- not hotplugable.
    > The SCSI specs only say a SCSI device been powered off or
    > on must not distrub the BUS!
    > That is often missinterpreted as SCSI device can be plugged
    > to a "hot" Bus. That's not true and may cause hard to detect data
    > corruption
    > or hardware defects.
    >
    > OTHO:
    > If the device is on a only BUS, only that bus can be disturbed or
    > destroyed.
    > So the risk is limited...
    >
    > USB OTOH is "hot plugable".
    >
    >
    > I really wonder why there are so few USB or Firewire tape streamers?
    > Because all servers have SCSI and the vendors like to sell a
    > tape for each computer instead one "moving" arround?


    usb is a cpu hog

    Brian K. White -- brian@aljex.com -- http://www.aljex.com/bkw/
    +++++[>+++[>+++++>+++++++<<-]<-]>>+.>.+++++.+++++++.-.[>+<---]>++.
    filePro BBx Linux SCO FreeBSD #callahans Satriani Filk!


  4. Re: BackEdge vs. LoneTar [Was: Re: Double Vision - Tridia]

    "Brian K. White" wrote:
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Rainer Zocholl"
    > Newsgroups: comp.unix.sco.misc
    > To:
    > Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 8:26 AM
    > Subject: Re: BackEdge vs. LoneTar [Was: Re: Double Vision - Tridia]
    >
    > > (Dan Martin) 14.09.05 in /comp/unix/sco/misc:
    > >
    > >
    > >>Check with Iomega about the SCSI REV, but I don't think it is designed
    > >>to be moved from, or attached to, a running system.

    > >
    > > What is true for EVERY SCSI device!
    > > SCSI is -by default- not hotplugable.
    > > The SCSI specs only say a SCSI device been powered off or
    > > on must not distrub the BUS!
    > > That is often missinterpreted as SCSI device can be plugged
    > > to a "hot" Bus. That's not true and may cause hard to detect data
    > > corruption
    > > or hardware defects.
    > >
    > > OTHO:
    > > If the device is on a only BUS, only that bus can be disturbed or
    > > destroyed.
    > > So the risk is limited...
    > >
    > > USB OTOH is "hot plugable".
    > >
    > >
    > > I really wonder why there are so few USB or Firewire tape streamers?
    > > Because all servers have SCSI and the vendors like to sell a
    > > tape for each computer instead one "moving" arround?

    >
    > usb is a cpu hog
    >
    > Brian K. White -- brian@aljex.com -- http://www.aljex.com/bkw/
    > +++++[>+++[>+++++>+++++++<<-]<-]>>+.>.+++++.+++++++.-.[>+<---]>++.
    > filePro BBx Linux SCO FreeBSD #callahans Satriani Filk!


    "usb is a cpu hog"

    I have noticed the systems are very busy during the nightly backup,
    but I thought it was the overhead of the server cpu doing the compression.

    NOTE: At least under BackupEDGE the USB REV drive is handled as a
    CDROM type device, and if you want compression it must be handled in
    software by the backup software.

    We have sold a few of the USB REV drives to entry level customers,
    and have tested backup/restore and recovery with BackupEDGE. So far
    everything works as advertised including booting the RecoverEDGE from
    the REV drive.

    The choice of REV vs. DAT is mainly cost. The lower price of the REV
    drive is offset by the higher cost of media, so for a small system that
    with a total of 3 to 5 backup cartridges will supply enough rotation the
    REV is a good choice. IOMega will warranty the cartridges for 5 years,
    which makes the total cost a bargain. If the customer needs off site
    storage of backups, 14 or 30 day rotations, end of month archive etc. then
    the DAT will work out cheaper.

    I know people will scream that 3 days rotation is not enough, but in
    some cases the compressed database size is so small that we can keep
    multiple weeks of daily backups on the hard drive, and just back
    everything up nightly.

    Mike
    --
    Michael Brown

    The Kingsway Group

  5. Re: BackEdge vs. LoneTar [Was: Re: Double Vision - Tridia]

    Mike Brown wrote:
    > "Brian K. White" wrote:
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: "Rainer Zocholl"
    > > Newsgroups: comp.unix.sco.misc
    > > To:
    > > Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 8:26 AM
    > > Subject: Re: BackEdge vs. LoneTar [Was: Re: Double Vision - Tridia]
    > >
    > > > (Dan Martin) 14.09.05 in /comp/unix/sco/misc:
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >>Check with Iomega about the SCSI REV, but I don't think it is designed
    > > >>to be moved from, or attached to, a running system.
    > > >
    > > > What is true for EVERY SCSI device!
    > > > SCSI is -by default- not hotplugable.
    > > > The SCSI specs only say a SCSI device been powered off or
    > > > on must not distrub the BUS!
    > > > That is often missinterpreted as SCSI device can be plugged
    > > > to a "hot" Bus. That's not true and may cause hard to detect data
    > > > corruption
    > > > or hardware defects.
    > > >
    > > > OTHO:
    > > > If the device is on a only BUS, only that bus can be disturbed or
    > > > destroyed.
    > > > So the risk is limited...
    > > >
    > > > USB OTOH is "hot plugable".
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I really wonder why there are so few USB or Firewire tape streamers?
    > > > Because all servers have SCSI and the vendors like to sell a
    > > > tape for each computer instead one "moving" arround?

    > >
    > > usb is a cpu hog
    > >
    > > Brian K. White -- brian@aljex.com -- http://www.aljex.com/bkw/
    > > +++++[>+++[>+++++>+++++++<<-]<-]>>+.>.+++++.+++++++.-.[>+<---]>++.
    > > filePro BBx Linux SCO FreeBSD #callahans Satriani Filk!

    >
    > "usb is a cpu hog"
    >
    > I have noticed the systems are very busy during the nightly backup,
    > but I thought it was the overhead of the server cpu doing the compression.
    >
    > NOTE: At least under BackupEDGE the USB REV drive is handled as a
    > CDROM type device, and if you want compression it must be handled in
    > software by the backup software.
    >
    > We have sold a few of the USB REV drives to entry level customers,
    > and have tested backup/restore and recovery with BackupEDGE. So far
    > everything works as advertised including booting the RecoverEDGE from
    > the REV drive.


    My apologies to Robin Grayson for the bum steer, it looks
    like USB REV might be his best option, since he plans on switching the
    drive between SCO and Windows. I had earlier posted that bootable
    media with USB REV was not supported by BackupEdge on any version of
    SCO.

    I notice now that
    http://www.microlite.com/REV_Download/rev_download.html
    was updated on Sept 15 and includes this NOTE on USB booting:
    "USB Booting is mostly the ability of the PC BIOS to boot from a CDROM
    device. Older BIOSes are not capable of this. This functionality should
    be tested on a platform-by-platform basis."

    Regards,
    Dan Martin

    >
    > The choice of REV vs. DAT is mainly cost. The lower price of the REV
    > drive is offset by the higher cost of media, so for a small system that
    > with a total of 3 to 5 backup cartridges will supply enough rotation the
    > REV is a good choice. IOMega will warranty the cartridges for 5 years,
    > which makes the total cost a bargain. If the customer needs off site
    > storage of backups, 14 or 30 day rotations, end of month archive etc. then
    > the DAT will work out cheaper.
    >
    > I know people will scream that 3 days rotation is not enough, but in
    > some cases the compressed database size is so small that we can keep
    > multiple weeks of daily backups on the hard drive, and just back
    > everything up nightly.
    >
    > Mike
    > --
    > Michael Brown
    >
    > The Kingsway Group



  6. Re: Double Vision - Tridia.

    Brian,

    All the functionality you have come to enjoy in DoubleVision is
    available in DoubleVision Pro. Our windows interface is an option that
    you don't pay extra for, and you don't have to use.

    I hope that helps.

    Vince Frese
    CEO
    Tridia Corporation


  7. Re: Double Vision - Tridia.

    Jeff,

    Thanks for the kind words. I agree with your perspective and insight
    into this issue.

    Vince Frese
    CEO
    Tridia Corporation


  8. Re: Double Vision - Tridia.

    I am sorry for your frustration with our pricing. I hope I can shed
    some light on this. We discontinued DoubleVision almost 2 years ago.
    DoubleVision Pro replaced DoubleVision and provides all the
    functionality of DoubleVision at the same price. When we discontinued
    DV, we ran an upgrade promotion for almost a year that allowed any
    DoubleVision user to upgrade to DoubleVision Pro for simply the cost of
    maintenance. For a Class A SCO license, that is $199. It seems from
    the price you were quoted, you elected not to subscribe to maintenance
    for at least a 2+ year period. The price to upgrade your DV to DVPRO
    is $449.. This will not only provide you an upgrade, but provides a
    year of unlimited upgrades and tech support at no addtional cost.
    While our maintenance model is not perfect, we think it is much better
    than the model that forces you to buy an upgrade everytime a new
    version comes out. We don't. As long as you are under maintenance,
    you get FREE upgrades.

    Vince Frese
    CEO
    Tridia Corporation


  9. Re: BackEdge vs. LoneTar [Was: Re: Double Vision - Tridia]

    On 20 Sep 2005 04:39:05 -0700, "Dan Martin"
    wrote:

    | My apologies to Robin Grayson for the bum steer, it looks
    | like USB REV might be his best option, since he plans on switching the
    | drive between SCO and Windows. I had earlier posted that bootable
    | media with USB REV was not supported by BackupEdge on any version of
    | SCO.

    Thanks to everyone who replied on this thread. Sorry for the lack of
    replies but I've been on vacation for a couple of weeks and am just
    catching up.

    This REV drive is just going to be used for backing up my own OSR6 box
    and a windows box which is why I wanted one that could be used on both
    OS's - for customers on SCO we still use DAT.

    We use Lone-Tar for unix backups, and always have done, so I will
    leave the LT/BE comparison for those that can compare the two
    products.

    Regards,

    Robin


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