Palm goes Windows Mobile - Scion

This is a discussion on Palm goes Windows Mobile - Scion ; In article , Martin T wrote: > I was perhaps a bit unclear about that, but I liked JF's > ideas with using some sort of established standard connection who don't require > any special software install. > These days, ...

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Thread: Palm goes Windows Mobile

  1. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    In article <8h5ek1t13n50h1sb0smq37j84rni0jhe0u@4ax.com>, Martin T wrote:
    > I was perhaps a bit unclear about that, but I liked JF's
    > ideas with using some sort of established standard connection who don't require
    > any special software install.
    >

    These days, that's a no-brain decision. Well, to me it is. I get headaches
    trying to think like someone who thinks customers would accept anything less
    these days.

    --
    Aidan Karley,
    Aberdeen, Scotland,
    Location: +57°10' , -02°09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
    Written at Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:30 +0100


  2. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Captain's log. On StarDate Sat, 08 Oct 2005 20:00:11 +0100 received comm from
    Aidan Karley on
    channel comp.sys.psion.misc:

    : In article <8h5ek1t13n50h1sb0smq37j84rni0jhe0u@4ax.com>, Martin T wrote:
    : > I was perhaps a bit unclear about that, but I liked JF's
    : > ideas with using some sort of established standard connection who don't require
    : > any special software install.
    : >
    : These days, that's a no-brain decision. Well, to me it is. I get headaches
    : trying to think like someone who thinks customers would accept anything less
    : these days.

    I'm actually not sure all devices work like that (my mobile phone doesn't, and I
    really dislike that). How is it generally with PPC and PalmOS devices?

    martin

    --
    Martin Törnsten - http://martin.tornsten.com/

  3. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Martin T wrote:
    > I'm actually not sure all devices work like that (my mobile phone doesn't, and I
    > really dislike that). How is it generally with PPC and PalmOS devices?


    I think that some provide FAT file system access via the USB port if
    they have USB. Others still use proprietary protocols for file exchanges
    (even if done over GPRS which is essentially TCPIP).

  4. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    On the 7 Oct 2005, Aidan Karley
    wrote:



    [Data transfer between machines]

    > The closest approach at the time (and the one that I invested about
    > 1/3 of the price of my Psion in, and which served me in a
    > heterogenous environment for about 4 years, which is pretty good!)
    > was the Zip disc.


    I bought a Cyclone floppy drive for my 3C. It was made by Purple
    Software, and integrated beautifully with EPOC. It communicated via the
    serial port. It was a little slow, but this was more than paid for by
    the sheer convenience it offered. All you had to do to access it once
    you'd installed the driver was copy to or read from the 'C' device on
    the 3C. It used standard 1.44MB DOS format disks, so you could
    communicate with pretty much anything.

    Sadly, it became redundant after I bought my Revo Plus. I assume that
    there would be no way to connect the drive to it. I think I've lost the
    disk with the driver on, too. :-(

    Nowadays, I use PsiFS to transfer data between my Revo Plus and the RISC
    OS machines I use. Compatibility with RISC OS is my main criterion when
    judging a potential new PDA, and it looks like I'll have to continue
    using Psions. Time to fork out for new batteries for the Revo and a new
    screen cable for the 3C, methinks.

    > And believe me, the hassles I had with managed computers that didn't
    > allow me to install Zip drivers were sufficient to hone my skills at
    > breaking into computers.


    In some respects, it's a shame that Zip drives never became as
    ubiquitous as floppy drives were, because it was a pretty good format
    for quite some time. At a guess, the only reason why it never became
    the standard was because of the cost of the internal units.

    The nice thing about USB memory sticks is that they just work. It's
    very rare that you'll encounter a machine with no USB ports or which
    has MSDs disabled.

    > These days I carry a USB to IDE adaptor and I *know* that I can move data.


    I've never seen one of those, are they any good? I assume that you just
    plug an IDE device to one end of it.

    --
    Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
    The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.

    nospam@jades.org /is/ a real email address!

  5. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    In article , Martin T wrote:
    > I'm actually not sure all devices work like that (my mobile phone doesn't, and I
    > really dislike that).
    >

    My phone is old enough that it doesn't need mass storage. Although if I
    felt the need, I should be able to save contacts between it and my Psion. I can't
    say that I've actually felt a *need* to do this though, not in the 4 or 5 years
    I've used this model of phone.

    > How is it generally with PPC and PalmOS devices?
    >

    Pass. Never used one for more than tens of seconds at a time. Don't know
    anyone who uses one either ... oh, hang on, Cllr Fletcher runs a Palm of some
    sort, but I don't know what type ; he misses his Psion 3.

    --
    Aidan Karley,
    Aberdeen, Scotland,
    Location: +57°10' , -02°09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
    Written at Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:18 +0100


  6. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Den 2005-10-08 02:18:19 skrev Martin T :

    > Captain's log. On StarDate Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:47:39 +1000 received comm
    > from
    > Eric Lindsay on channel
    > comp.sys.psion.misc:


    > : I tried an IBM laptop with Win XP Home before I tried the Mac. XP
    > drove
    > : me insane, to the point where I was ready to throw the thing out. It
    > is
    >
    > Strange. I know a lot of loyal Mac fans, but that seems (to me at least)
    > rather
    > extreme. I'm curious about what problems you had with it?



    I have to side with Martin here. If it is unstable, something is wrong and
    needs fixing. Regarding the user interface, you have to take a step back
    and try to understand what they were thinking when they designed it. Do
    that, and you will get along much easier wih any interface.

    Having said that, I hate the new windows look... give me a boxy Volvo any
    day.

    Erik Sandblom

    --
    my site is EriksRailNews.com

  7. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Den 2005-10-06 06:00:04 skrev JF Mezei :

    > Perhaps PSION was really shortsighted and
    > really expected people to pay the big bucks (licensing) to get the
    > privilege of getting the real documentation on the prprietary fille
    > formats etc.



    I think that's a big part of the whole Psion community. People thought
    they are were going to get rich quick (I guess some did). Witness how
    quickly Epoc downloads vanished from websites as soon as Symbian phones
    came out. No sensitivity to community issues and long-term customer
    goodwill.

    And witness Psion's rather brutal exit from the market. They could have
    just downsized; cut a deal with POS (which still sells new devices) or
    another partner. They could have brought out the Bluetooth Revo on a
    smaller scale -- the customers were already lined up! It seems to me that
    they figured they couldn't rule the world so they quit alltogether.

    Erik Sandblom

    --
    my site is EriksRailNews.com

  8. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Den 2005-10-08 03:07:45 skrev Martin T :

    > Captain's log. On StarDate 6 Oct 2005 13:46:24 -0700 received comm from
    > eriksandblom@yahoo.co.uk on channel comp.sys.psion.misc:
    >
    > : But they still don't have long enough battery time -- a day should be
    > : the minumum. And they break when you drop them, which is a shame for a
    > : device intended to be carried.
    > :
    > : I think the reason people bought laptops was that they were afraid of
    > : using anything that was not MS Windows and MS Office, and they
    > : overestimated the difficulty and inconvenience of using anything else.
    > : The very sad part about that, is that in so doing, they bought machines
    > : that break when you drop them, and run out of gas within a few hours.
    > : In short, they fail when used as intended.
    >
    > Battery life, yes I agree (but neither Netbook or Series 7 is near the
    > life of
    > my Psion S3a, HP Jornada or my Smartphone).
    >
    > Break, no. I have had several Psion (both Series 3 and 3a) break when
    > dropped,
    > and this happened to a lot of people I know.



    Wow. I had to reset myself a couple of times after reading that, because
    my experience is completely opposite. My Netbook and Revo get dropped all
    the time. Sometimes parts come off, but you just snap them on again. I
    have sometimes been unkind to my Netbook. It has earned my loyalty by
    soldiering on and on.

    My Dad dropped his Toshiba Protege once -- once -- and the screen had to
    be replaced for $$$. Toshibas are not cheap, so I assumed they would hold
    up better than most.


    > I have dropped my notebook (HP Omnibook 500) a couple of times, and just
    > got
    > some ugly scratches on it's magnesium case, but nothing more.



    Wow.


    > : Editing a desktop PC document on a PDA will always be a compromise, but
    > : that's not because PDAs are worse, it's because 100% compatibility
    > : between programs and even program versions will never be achieved. Once
    >
    > Exactly. That's why a lot of people (I would say most) prefer the trade
    > off in
    > battery life vs the trade off in not being able to install your normal
    > software.



    But my point was that the whole reason they want to install their normal
    software is that they are too timid to try and learn other software. So
    they never even get as far as *considering* what benefits they might get
    from a non-MS Office solution. Hence they make uninformed decisions.

    Of course you can make an informed decision, and still conclude that a
    traditional laptop is best for you. But I suspect uninformed, uneducated
    consumers have tipped the market in favour of heavy, expensive breakable
    laptops which quickly run out of power. (Though your HP doesn't break.)


    > This is why not only Netbook, both also notebook Windows CE machines
    > failed. The
    > format wasn't a good compromise for most users.



    I think consumers just didn't understand what a good compromise modern
    PDAs are. Plus Windows CE consumed too much power and was too unstable,
    which is a real shame since those are two of the most important aspects
    for portable machines.

    Erik Sandblom

    --
    my site is EriksRailNews.com

  9. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Erik Sandblom wrote:
    > But my point was that the whole reason they want to install their normal
    > software is that they are too timid to try and learn other software.


    And that is the crux of the problem. When you look at the Series 3,
    PSION had gone through a lot of trouble to design a user interface that
    was well suited for most efficient use on a PDA with small keyboard.

    Microsoft products have a user interface designed to be used on a large
    computer with a mouse. Laptops generally give you the same functionlity,
    but certaintly not the same level of usability. Consider for instance
    how slow the "clitoris" pointing device on IBM laptop is. (and how your
    finger ends up hurting after long periods of use).

    So while one can scale down laptops to something approaching a palmtop,
    the default Windows software just doesn't work well on such a small
    screen. And Windows_CE (or whatever it is called this week) isn't the
    same as Windows although the marketing makes you want to think it is.

    The PSION Series 5 was a neat demo of technology, but a form factor that
    expects you to switch between keyboard and pen is flawed for a PDA. (eg:
    when standing up for instance).

    So one really needs to have applications designed for the type of use.

    Where the mini-laptop comes into play is if you move from one office to
    another and can plug in your mini plaptop to have large screen, real
    keyboard and mouse. (essentially, you are carrying a glorified hard disk
    with pre-confugured windows and your own documents on the disk).

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