Is 9300 the new psion? - Scion

This is a discussion on Is 9300 the new psion? - Scion ; "AM Christophe" wrote in message news ro8e.46295$Of5.30714@nntpserver.swip.net... > Aidan Karley wrote: > >> In article , AM Christophe >> wrote: >>> Only tasks >>> switching (without closing the running application) needs the >>> touchscreen. >>> >> As I'm sure someone ...

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Thread: Is 9300 the new psion?

  1. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    "AM Christophe" wrote in message
    newsro8e.46295$Of5.30714@nntpserver.swip.net...
    > Aidan Karley wrote:
    >
    >> In article , AM Christophe
    >> wrote:
    >>> Only tasks
    >>> switching (without closing the running application) needs the
    >>> touchscreen.
    >>>

    >> As I'm sure someone else has said already, try Macro5 (I'm sure I
    >> could find a website if you can't). Switch between operating tasks with
    >> Ctrl-Space (or re-defined key). Works. Film at 11.

    >
    > Yes of course. There are dedicated feewares for this. Task switching just
    > does'nt work out of the box.


    You're right. I used to use it. My 5mx is long dead. But it wasn't a
    perfect solution - it interfered with programs, slowed things down, and then
    of course, Ctrl-space still wasn't the easiest thing to press when the
    centre of gravity of the organiser was just behind the screen! Fine on a
    table, but standing up required really long thumbs.

    Duncan.



  2. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    > Well, what about the Nokia 9300? Why does can this not replace your psion?
    > It has a backlit screen and maybe even has a backlit keyboard (but
    > seriously, do you do all your work at night? How about just turning the
    > light on?!)


    The keyboard is horrible. The keys have virtually no travel and are
    cramped. Of course there's also no touch screen. I'm sticking with my
    5MX a little bit longer.

  3. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    AM Christophe wrote:
    > ...), but even with all this work they missed a few
    > good Series 3 ideas.


    Agreed. The one I'd most miss, if ever I got an EPOC device, was that after
    calling up the menu on Series 3 you can press the shortcut key to see and
    check that you have remembered it correctly before commiting yourself. On
    Series 5 it seems to be just the number keys that work the same which I
    never found so useful. (And means that you cannot have numbers as
    shortcuts.)

    Mike.
    --
    If reply address = connectfee, add an r because it is free not fee.



  4. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    "Lodd3" wrote in message
    news:MPG.1ccca7b5954365a59896b2@text.news.virgin.n et...
    >> Well, what about the Nokia 9300? Why does can this not replace your
    >> psion?
    >> It has a backlit screen and maybe even has a backlit keyboard (but
    >> seriously, do you do all your work at night? How about just turning the
    >> light on?!)

    >
    > The keyboard is horrible. The keys have virtually no travel and are
    > cramped. Of course there's also no touch screen. I'm sticking with my
    > 5MX a little bit longer.


    As long as you're talking about the keyboard on a real model, and on a
    display model (here in the u.k. it's impossible to get your hands on a real
    model), then I agree, that makes it useless.

    I never found I really needed the touch-screen, what do you use it for? Did
    you ever use a 3-series? because they worked excellently without one. I
    really wish I'd upgraded my Revo to a 3mx, rather than a 5mx, though at the
    time, I couldn't understand why anyone would want a 3mx!

    Duncan.



  5. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    In article ,
    Duncan J Murray

    wrote:
    > > The keyboard is horrible. The keys have virtually no travel and are
    > > cramped. Of course there's also no touch screen. I'm sticking with my
    > > 5MX a little bit longer.


    > As long as you're talking about the keyboard on a real model, and on a
    > display model (here in the u.k. it's impossible to get your hands on a
    > real model), then I agree, that makes it useless.


    A fellow passenger on a train on Friday had one with him; he was explaining
    to the person with whom he was travelling that he had only just got it, and
    hadn't yet been able to explore the possibilities. He was wondering what
    happened if the phone rang while you were using one of the programs.

    --
    __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________
    |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / Acorn StrongArm Risc_PC
    | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines
    ___________________________/ dhwild@argonet.co.uk

  6. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    Duncan J Murray wrote:
    > Psion isn't about touch screen, touch typing, clever opening mechanism etc.
    > etc. It was about being the most flexible and efficient organiser there
    > was.


    Towards the end of its life, PSION abandonned those principles when it
    released the Series5 for which there was quite a priorioty on touch
    screen demoing fancy menus etc instead of thee Series3's prioroty of
    reducing keystrokes and menus.

    What surprises me is that the Register's review of the 9300 mentions it
    is like Psions ER5 of Symbian OS.


    Does anyone know if it actually uses Symbian OS and if so, which version
    ?

  7. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    Duncan J Murray wrote:
    > the psion as useful as it is - I could live without all of the above. But
    > it was what made it a success, and might explain why the series 5, despite
    > being technologically better, was much less of a success.


    I agree with your praise for the Series3.

    The series 5 failed for many reasons. Psion probably had already decided
    to pull out of the PDA market. Consider that at about the same time
    PSION released the 5, it also dropped its north american distribution
    and marketing. And it also pushed to move its new EPOC32 to the mobile
    phone companies (which was probably one reason PSION didn't want to make
    EPOC32 an open/documented platform since it saw the value of EPOC32 in
    all the proprietary file formats and various engines to handle those formats.

    IF PSION's goal was to offload its software developmeht team with the
    most value, it probably succeeded by selling Psion Software to Symbian
    consortium, and a couple years ago, selling its remaining shares in Symbian.

    PDAs are in a difficult place between ever more powerful mobile handsets
    and ever better/lighter laptops.

    I still use my series 3c every day. The only tikme I use the 5 now is in
    bed to play "bombs". Its screen just instn't readable in the kind of
    lighting I am usually in.

  8. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    In article , Duncan J Murray wrote:
    > I would say the most useful psion, in terms of pure organising power, is the
    > series 3.
    >

    I never had a 3. I had to borrow a friend's mobile phone for a couple of
    weeks in about 1997 when I was on short-call work, and then decided to get a
    mobile of my own and do the "mobile computing" thing. I looked closely at what
    was on the market, and it came to a cloes-run thing between a Psion5 and IR
    mobile or a Nokia 9000. After much thought (well, it was over a month's
    disposable), I decided on the 9000. Which worked reasonably well for about 6
    months, but the absence of a worthwhile spreadsheet (apart from one from
    Portugal that cost more than the phone/computer itself) was a real killer. Then
    mobiles of any stripe were banned at work (unbanned a couple of years ago), and
    I went back to Plan-B, the Psion and the IR phone, which proved to be *much*
    better. By then, Psion 3s were pretty hard to find.
    I'm interested in the N-9300, but while the Psion is working OK, I'm
    happy.
    Would normal EPOC programs work on the Nokia?

    --
    Aidan Karley,
    Aberdeen, Scotland,
    Location: 57°10' N, 02°09' W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
    Written at Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:48 +0100


  9. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    In article <4d5d255920dhwild@argonet.co.uk>, David H Wild wrote:
    > He was wondering what
    > happened if the phone rang while you were using one of the programs.
    >

    If it's anything like the 9000, you close the clamshell, answer
    the phone (or handle the SMS), and then re-open the clamshell to
    continue. I can't remember a case when a phone call fscked a running
    program, but the SMS handler couldn't multi-instance.
    Things might have changed.

    --
    Aidan Karley,
    Aberdeen, Scotland,
    Location: 57°10' N, 02°09' W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
    Written at Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:02 +0100


  10. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    In article , Duncan J Murray wrote:
    > Why does can this not replace your psion?
    >

    There are still workplaces where mobile phones of any stripe are
    banned, partly because of requirements for radio silence, but also
    because of secrecy desires. To quote one company representative "I want
    to be able to walk into that radio room, cut the plug off the radio
    spread, and *know* that no information is leaving the site that I don't
    know about."

    > do you do all your work at night?
    >

    I do do quite a lot of note-taking out on deck. If that's at 3
    am, that's at 3 am. The backlight on the Psion chews more battery than
    I'd like, and it's not unknown for me to be based in camp miles away
    from the site, making a spare set of batteries another bit of kit to be
    remembered.

    --
    Aidan Karley,
    Aberdeen, Scotland,
    Location: 57°10' N, 02°09' W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
    Written at Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:56 +0100


  11. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?


    "JF Mezei" wrote in message
    news:1113813907.aea6b7ad4383b1888a0e352ddcf04a14@t eranews...
    > Duncan J Murray wrote:
    >> the psion as useful as it is - I could live without all of the above.
    >> But
    >> it was what made it a success, and might explain why the series 5,
    >> despite
    >> being technologically better, was much less of a success.

    >
    > I agree with your praise for the Series3.
    >
    > The series 5 failed for many reasons. Psion probably had already decided
    > to pull out of the PDA market. Consider that at about the same time
    > PSION released the 5, it also dropped its north american distribution
    > and marketing. And it also pushed to move its new EPOC32 to the mobile
    > phone companies (which was probably one reason PSION didn't want to make
    > EPOC32 an open/documented platform since it saw the value of EPOC32 in
    > all the proprietary file formats and various engines to handle those
    > formats.


    Ah, well that definetely is a reason - dropping marketing in the US is going
    to hit it quite badly! Psion did an excellent job of moving the OS over to
    symbain - thank goodness the os is still alive!

    >
    > IF PSION's goal was to offload its software developmeht team with the
    > most value, it probably succeeded by selling Psion Software to Symbian
    > consortium, and a couple years ago, selling its remaining shares in
    > Symbian.
    >
    > PDAs are in a difficult place between ever more powerful mobile handsets
    > and ever better/lighter laptops.


    True. However, they are just about not meeting - I'd say the mobile smart
    phone market is just touching the PDA market, but the laptop is a bit
    further off, the primary problem being the short battery life, size, and
    instant-on. The people getting squashed are Palm. Symbian seems to be
    moving in from the outside, back to where it was originally (as in the 9300,
    9500 - that's an increase in those keyboard/display type model - only time
    will tell if they can maintain having two lines).

    >
    > I still use my series 3c every day. The only tikme I use the 5 now is in
    > bed to play "bombs". Its screen just instn't readable in the kind of
    > lighting I am usually in.


    You are dead right - in theory the series 5 should have been excellent, but
    in practice, lots of little things let it down. The screen was one of
    them - I used to long for proper outlook connectivity to save my eyesight
    from having to type in that murky screen.

    Does you 3c have a backlight? I had a 3a, without backlight, and it was
    extremely clear - no need for outlook.

    Duncan.



  12. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?


    "JF Mezei" wrote in message
    news:1113812432.7bb5c949988fabd64a2587911ab78cff@t eranews...
    > Duncan J Murray wrote:
    >> Psion isn't about touch screen, touch typing, clever opening mechanism
    >> etc.
    >> etc. It was about being the most flexible and efficient organiser there
    >> was.

    >
    > Towards the end of its life, PSION abandonned those principles when it
    > released the Series5 for which there was quite a priorioty on touch
    > screen demoing fancy menus etc instead of thee Series3's prioroty of
    > reducing keystrokes and menus.


    Absolutely. It's possible to have both, just the series 5 didn't.

    > What surprises me is that the Register's review of the 9300 mentions it
    > is like Psions ER5 of Symbian OS.


    Well, it's definetely based on it.

    > Does anyone know if it actually uses Symbian OS and if so, which version


    It is OS 7 (so 2 updates past ER5) and it's series 80 - for the widescreen.

    I just looked at the symbian website, and what is very very interesting, is
    that appears Lenovo is a partner, too. These guys bought up IBM's hardware
    division - and are currently making mobile phones. Just a small guess, but
    in 5 years time I think they'll be leading the mobile market. Wouldn't a
    Psion/Thinkpad be great?!

    Duncan.



  13. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?


    "Duncan J Murray"

    schreef in bericht news:d3pkhm$jov$1@news.ox.ac.uk...
    > Hello all,
    >
    > Nice to see the psion community is still going... I remember in the good
    > old days the 3a-5mx dynastys when this was really thriving!
    >
    > What do people think of the new 9300 from Nokia as being a good

    replacement
    > for the Psion?
    >
    > Also, has anyone noticed the really high second-hand price of series 3
    > machines?! I thought I would (after a 1/2 year stint without a psion)

    look
    > for a really cheap 3 series on ebay - Ridiculous! Spending £50 on an
    > organiser that can barely communicate with a new laptop, only for the

    screen
    > to go in 2 years?! Maybe I'm missing something...
    >
    > Duncan.


    Its problems compared to the 5mx:

    - Really, really, really tiny keyboard (even more annoying than that of the
    Revo or the 3a). It has a nice e-mail client and a complete Office suite,
    but it is not of much use with this keyboard...
    - Not a lot of freeware (and judging from the experience with the 9210 and
    the 9210i this will not improve), compared to the EPOC OS. I am a chemical
    engineer and I use ChemTools ( a database of the periodic system) and QCite
    (a literature citation program). No such things on the smartphone toys of
    nowadays. :-(
    The 3's had many engineering tools as well.

    Its problem compared to the 9500:

    - A real cool (and even slightly useful) function is the 9500's built-in
    WiFi. You can check your mail in nearly every neighbourhood for free,
    because there always is a WiFi emitter emitting its Internet freely (either
    on purpose or because the user does not know how to switch on his security
    features). This makes the 9500 very useful. I also do it regularly with my
    netBook.
    However, since there must be a difference between the 9500 and the 9300,
    Nokia decided to not include a WiFi receiver in the 9300 (and a camera
    neither, but I could live without that).

    If I were to buy a Nokia Communicator it would be the 9500, but for the
    moment I am happy with my netBook (and a spare 7book in the drawer). That is
    and will still be a serious working tool.



  14. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    Duncan J Murray wrote:
    > further off, the primary problem being the short battery life, size, and
    > instant-on.


    I think that laptops are moving quite a bit in this direction. IBM just
    announced hydrogen fuel cells for laptops (not sure how long before they
    go to market).

    > You are dead right - in theory the series 5 should have been excellent, but
    > in practice, lots of little things let it down.


    But these little things are also what sold the OS to Symbian. The 5 was
    built to demo all the features of the OS, at the expense of making the
    unit itself as efficient as the Series 3 for a PDA. The irony is that
    not much has been retained of the upper layer of the OS and series 6 and
    7 have totally different user interfaces.

    And while PSION had bragged about EPOC32 being able to do hard real time
    to drive phones, it is still not known if any phone has used Symbian OS
    to drive the actual phone. (as opposed to driving the gadgets that come
    with the phone).

    > Does you 3c have a backlight? I had a 3a, without backlight, and it was
    > extremely clear - no need for outlook.


    Yeah, and its screen quality isn't as good as what the 3a was. But I
    guess I could always open the screen assembly and remove the backlight
    and replace it with a very white or aluminium layer. That woudl bring it
    back to the series 3A's screen readability.

    But backlight is useful at times as well.

    The 5, however has the bad combination of backlight and touchscreen. For
    this, you really need TFT displays with much brighter backlight used all
    the time. (my siemens phone has that)

  15. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    On Saturday, in article
    duncan.murray@remove.this.bit.medica...t.oxford.ac.uk
    "Duncan J Murray" wrote:

    > You can touch type on a series 5, but you can't hold it in your
    > hands and type with your thumbs.


    Only if you have tiny, tiny, hands. I used to do both as a matter of
    course, and my hands are on the small side for a man.
    --
    Raj Rijhwani | This is the voice of the Mysterons...
    raj@rijhwani.org | ... We know that you can hear us Earthmen
    http://www.rijhwani.org/raj/ | "Lieutenant Green: Launch all Angels!"
    Permission to distribute this article as website content is expressly denied.


  16. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?


    "Dixit" wrote in message
    news:QkS8e.68072$hh3.4703360@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
    >
    > "Duncan J Murray"
    >
    > schreef in bericht news:d3pkhm$jov$1@news.ox.ac.uk...
    >> Hello all,
    >>
    >> Nice to see the psion community is still going... I remember in the good
    >> old days the 3a-5mx dynastys when this was really thriving!
    >>
    >> What do people think of the new 9300 from Nokia as being a good

    > replacement
    >> for the Psion?
    >>
    >> Also, has anyone noticed the really high second-hand price of series 3
    >> machines?! I thought I would (after a 1/2 year stint without a psion)

    > look
    >> for a really cheap 3 series on ebay - Ridiculous! Spending £50 on an
    >> organiser that can barely communicate with a new laptop, only for the

    > screen
    >> to go in 2 years?! Maybe I'm missing something...
    >>
    >> Duncan.

    >
    > Its problems compared to the 5mx:
    >
    > - Really, really, really tiny keyboard (even more annoying than that of
    > the
    > Revo or the 3a). It has a nice e-mail client and a complete Office suite,
    > but it is not of much use with this keyboard...


    This is a major drawback if it is true (I trust you're not talking about a
    display model, but an actual real unit). I found the 3a keyboard excellent
    for thumb-typing, which, for a diary, is the main way I tended to use it.
    The revo's was not great, but I think actually, still better than the 5mx,
    if only because it could be held in the hand and typed on at the same time.

    > - Not a lot of freeware (and judging from the experience with the 9210 and
    > the 9210i this will not improve), compared to the EPOC OS. I am a chemical
    > engineer and I use ChemTools ( a database of the periodic system) and
    > QCite
    > (a literature citation program). No such things on the smartphone toys of
    > nowadays. :-(


    Yes, but that may still come... The release of the 9300 alongside the 9500
    is bound to make these phones more widespread in its use (though I doubt as
    much as psions, but I may be proven wrong).

    > The 3's had many engineering tools as well.
    >
    > Its problem compared to the 9500:
    >
    > - A real cool (and even slightly useful) function is the 9500's built-in
    > WiFi. You can check your mail in nearly every neighbourhood for free,
    > because there always is a WiFi emitter emitting its Internet freely
    > (either
    > on purpose or because the user does not know how to switch on his security
    > features). This makes the 9500 very useful. I also do it regularly with my
    > netBook.


    Round where I am, people don't know what wifi is. (the u.k.).

    > However, since there must be a difference between the 9500 and the 9300,
    > Nokia decided to not include a WiFi receiver in the 9300 (and a camera
    > neither, but I could live without that).


    Yes, but the 9500 is significantly bulkier than the 9300. I think I could
    live without a camera, too.

    >
    > If I were to buy a Nokia Communicator it would be the 9500, but for the
    > moment I am happy with my netBook (and a spare 7book in the drawer). That
    > is
    > and will still be a serious working tool.


    Netbooks seem excellent, do they have the same problem regarding the screen
    cable as all the others though?
    Duncan.



  17. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?


    "Aidan Karley"
    wrote in message
    news:VA.0000069d.2b8f2942@validemailaddresstoa.new s.group...
    > In article , Duncan J Murray wrote:
    >> Why does can this not replace your psion?
    >>

    > There are still workplaces where mobile phones of any stripe are
    > banned, partly because of requirements for radio silence, but also
    > because of secrecy desires. To quote one company representative "I want
    > to be able to walk into that radio room, cut the plug off the radio
    > spread, and *know* that no information is leaving the site that I don't
    > know about."
    >


    Good point - didn't occur to me.

    >> do you do all your work at night?
    >>

    > I do do quite a lot of note-taking out on deck. If that's at 3
    > am, that's at 3 am. The backlight on the Psion chews more battery than
    > I'd like, and it's not unknown for me to be based in camp miles away
    > from the site, making a spare set of batteries another bit of kit to be
    > remembered.


    Ah..... Just your psion, stars and sea spray! Reminds me of trips on the
    ferry to France in the holidays.
    Duncan.

    >
    > --
    > Aidan Karley,
    > Aberdeen, Scotland,
    > Location: 57°10' N, 02°09' W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
    > Written at Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:56 +0100
    >




  18. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    In article , Duncan J Murray wrote:
    > > Would normal EPOC programs work on the Nokia?

    >
    > The nokia 9000, I don't believe, actually ran symbian os.
    >

    I should have been clearer - I used to have a Nokia 9000 (which I know
    did not run EPOC/ Symbian/ ER5 but ran a version of Geoworks, a pre-Windows
    multi-tasking environment for the i86a processor architecture. I was wondering
    if the Nokia 9300 ran Symbian/ ER5/ etc.

    > However, there's going to be a time when even your psion's
    > screen will die (I place it at 2 years hard use), and then what do you do?
    >

    Die again. I'm on my 3rd Psion 5(whatever) and if I count correctly,
    this Psion's 2nd screen. Psions die; I backup. And I must remember to toast
    the toenails of that snotty twerp in Glasgow who hasn't returned the Psion I
    loaned him just because his girlfriend threw him out of the house. Are you
    listening, Gordon P.?)

    > However, outlook synch is an enormous plus.
    >

    IFF you use Outlook. I declined to use the crap that was Outlook's
    grandparent, and see no reason to move deeper into the dregs.

    > The reason I think the N-9300 and 9500 are interesting is that they don't
    > have touch screen, which hopefully means their designers made proper use of
    > the keyboards.
    >

    An adequate reason. I like keyboard input. I've proven, by
    demonstration, that I can input data faster on a keyboard than the programming
    director at work can using a mouse, so naturally keyboard support is being
    phased out. We are expected to do piece-work on sub-optimal interfaces.

    --
    Aidan Karley,
    Aberdeen, Scotland,
    Location: 57°10' N, 02°09' W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
    Written at Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:51 +0100


  19. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    In article , Duncan J Murray wrote:
    > Just your psion, stars and sea spray! Reminds me of trips on the
    > ferry to France in the holidays.
    >

    Snow in June in off the Shetlands and anaphylactic shock from
    the mosquito bites in Siberian summer ; heatstroke in the Gulf in July
    and too-bad-to-sleep sunburn off Tanzania when I should have been
    Valentining her Ladyship in Siberia.

    --
    Aidan Karley,
    Aberdeen, Scotland,
    Location: 57°10' N, 02°09' W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
    Written at Wed, 20 Apr 2005 00:42 +0100


  20. Re: Is 9300 the new psion?

    Captain's log. On StarDate Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:17:45 +0100 received comm from
    "Duncan J Murray"
    on
    channel comp.sys.psion.misc:

    : I would say the most useful psion, in terms of pure organising power, is the
    : series 3. If they re-released a series 3, I think I would get one. I've
    : seriously considered repairing my series 3a, except that it is completely
    : incompatible with my laptop. Nothing compares to the series 3 for a
    : replacement for a pocket diary, in that you can hold it while typing,
    : doesn't require ridiculous shortcuts to do things, and it's got a clear
    : screen (clearer than the 5 series), and of course, the most excellent agenda
    : program.

    The Series 3a is the absolutely best Psion product I have ever owned (I liked my
    Series 3 as well, but a little bit too low screen resolution).

    That was IMHO the absolute peak of the Psion organizer history and development.

    (After that it all turned around and started to go downhill...)

    martin törnsten

    --
    martinot@gmail.com

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