Belkin UPS Surge-Protected Network Connection - Routers

This is a discussion on Belkin UPS Surge-Protected Network Connection - Routers ; I just got myself a Belkin 1250VA UPS with Ethernet surge protection I'm trying to place it between the cable modem and the PC, such that the PC is surge protected. Before: Cat5 patch cable (586A wire layout) from modem ...

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Thread: Belkin UPS Surge-Protected Network Connection

  1. Belkin UPS Surge-Protected Network Connection

    I just got myself a Belkin 1250VA UPS with Ethernet surge protection

    I'm trying to place it between the cable modem and the PC, such that the PC
    is surge protected.

    Before: Cat5 patch cable (586A wire layout) from modem to PC. Patch cable
    was supplied with the modem. Everything works.

    After: Above cable from modem to UPS "in" port. Second Cat5e patch cable
    (586B wire layout) from UPS "out" port to PC. Now I get no Internet
    connection.

    Does anyone have experience with the choice of cable type for use with UPS
    outlets? Should I be able to use a 586A patch cable with a 586B patch cable
    in this situation, since they are both straight-through cables?

    --
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."




  2. Re: Belkin UPS Surge-Protected Network Connection

    First of One wrote:

    > I just got myself a Belkin 1250VA UPS with Ethernet surge protection
    >
    > I'm trying to place it between the cable modem and the PC, such that the PC
    > is surge protected.
    >
    > Before: Cat5 patch cable (586A wire layout) from modem to PC. Patch cable
    > was supplied with the modem. Everything works.
    >
    > After: Above cable from modem to UPS "in" port. Second Cat5e patch cable
    > (586B wire layout) from UPS "out" port to PC. Now I get no Internet
    > connection.


    Maybe the 568B cable is faulty. Have you tried the 568B cable direct
    from cable modem to PC?

    > Does anyone have experience with the choice of cable type for use with UPS
    > outlets? Should I be able to use a 586A patch cable with a 586B patch cable
    > in this situation, since they are both straight-through cables?


    You are quite right. They are both straight through so it doesn't matter
    if you mix them. If, however, a cable has the 568A pinout at one end and
    the 568B pinout at the other then it is a crossover cable designed for
    connecting two computers directly without an intervening hub or router.

    --
    James Taylor

  3. Re: Belkin UPS Surge-Protected Network Connection

    "James Taylor" wrote in message
    news:1hi5oo2.9vr2yefr0amoN%usenet@oakseed.demon.co .uk.invalid...
    > Maybe the 568B cable is faulty. Have you tried the 568B cable direct
    > from cable modem to PC?


    Yep, tried that. The [brand new] 568B cable works fine on its own. Strange,
    isn't it?

    > You are quite right. They are both straight through so it doesn't matter
    > if you mix them. If, however, a cable has the 568A pinout at one end and
    > the 568B pinout at the other then it is a crossover cable designed for
    > connecting two computers directly without an intervening hub or router.


    Knew this. Both are indeed straight-through cables.

    I was expecting this to be a simple plug-and-play thing, since the UPS
    simply passes the signal without modifying it (except for the surge
    protection). Interestingly, there are two "out" ports and one "in" port, as
    can be seen in the manual:


    How do you think this works? Would two PCs connected to the "out" ports be
    able to see each other and use the UPS as a router (which Belkin does
    produce)?

    --
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."




  4. Re: Belkin UPS Surge-Protected Network Connection

    First of One wrote:

    > James Taylor wrote:
    >
    > > Have you tried the 568B cable direct from cable modem to PC?

    >
    > Yep, tried that. The [brand new] 568B cable works fine on its own.
    > Strange, isn't it?


    Are you sure that the UPS doesn't have a separate trip switch for the
    ethernet surge protector that needs resetting? Or maybe there's an
    internal fuse that's blown.

    The only other explanation I can see is that the UPS itself is faulty.
    What do their after sales support people have to say?

    > Interestingly, there are two "out" ports and one "in" port, as
    > can be seen in the manual:

    [snip]
    >
    > How do you think this works? Would two PCs connected to the "out"
    > ports be able to see each other and use the UPS as a router
    > (which Belkin does produce)?


    It's highly unlikely the UPS will act as a router, unless the software
    provided makes the configuration of routes available to the user. Far
    more likely is that it operates as a dumb hub, sending what comes in to
    both output ports, and what comes back into one of the output ports to
    both the other output port and back up the in port.

    Frankly I don't see the point of the UPS/surge protector trying to be so
    very slightly a hub. It might as well just leave the user to get a
    proper switch or router if they need one.

    --
    James Taylor

  5. Re: Belkin UPS Surge-Protected Network Connection

    "James Taylor" wrote in message
    news:1hi6nc0.18ecwg410okd57N%usenet@oakseed.demon. co.uk.invalid...
    > Are you sure that the UPS doesn't have a separate trip switch for the
    > ethernet surge protector that needs resetting? Or maybe there's an
    > internal fuse that's blown.


    I did some experimentation with the network ports on the UPS, with the
    following results:

    [1] Modem on "in" port, PC on "out" port: no connection.
    [2] Modem on "out" port, PC on "in" port: everything works.
    [3] Modem on "out" port, PC on "out" port: everything works.

    Of course, [2] and [3] offer no surge protection. [1] is the proper setup,
    but it doesn't work.

    [2] is the reverse of the proper setup. The fact it works, rules out the
    possibility of a blown internal fuse. Maybe the UPS does something funny
    with the send/receive wires in the cable, such that a crossover cable is
    required? Belkin's manual is fairly sparse in this regard.

    I'll give Belkin's tech support line a call on Monday and see what they have
    to say. I'm also waiting for them to reply by email.

    > It's highly unlikely the UPS will act as a router, unless the software
    > provided makes the configuration of routes available to the user. Far
    > more likely is that it operates as a dumb hub, sending what comes in to
    > both output ports, and what comes back into one of the output ports to
    > both the other output port and back up the in port.


    From [3], the UPS indeed operates as a dumb hub. There is of course no NAT
    capability, so I cannot share an Internet connection with it.

    --
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."





  6. Re: Belkin UPS Surge-Protected Network Connection

    First of One wrote:

    > I did some experimentation with the network ports on the UPS,
    > with the following results:
    >
    > [1] Modem on "in" port, PC on "out" port: no connection.
    > [2] Modem on "out" port, PC on "in" port: everything works.
    > [3] Modem on "out" port, PC on "out" port: everything works.
    >
    > Of course, [2] and [3] offer no surge protection. [1] is the
    > proper setup, but it doesn't work.


    That is weird. Sounds like some part of the surge protection circuitry
    is blown out or shorted in a manner than only affects data passing in
    one direction. No, hang on a minute, if everything works in [2] and [3]
    then data must be flowing freely in both directions. So it must be
    something about the modem or PC that presents differently to the UPS's
    ports such that the surge protection circuit blocks the flow. Maybe
    either the modem or PC are outputting a higher voltage than they should.
    If I had to guess, I'd say it was the modem at fault because the
    symptoms change according to whether it is connected to IN or OUT, not
    whether the PC is on the IN or OUT. Does that make sense?

    Do you have another modem you can borrow for testing?

    For that matter, do you have a different computer to try?

    > [2] is the reverse of the proper setup. The fact it works, rules
    > out the possibility of a blown internal fuse.


    Not necessarily. The fuse, or circuitry acting like a fuse, could be set
    up only to act in one direction.

    > Maybe the UPS does something funny with the send/receive wires
    > in the cable, such that a crossover cable is required?


    I think that's highly unlikely. These days everyone does crossover in
    hubs and routers rather than in the cable itself, and many ethernet
    interfaces have auto-detection of which way round they need to behave,
    and both these factors make crossover cables unnecessary and thus
    increasingly rare. If a crossover cable were necessary Belkin would
    certainly have mentioned it and probably also provided it in the box.

    > Belkin's manual is fairly sparse in this regard.


    User guides are a dying breed, especially one written in English by
    people for whom English is a first language.

    > I'll give Belkin's tech support line a call on Monday and see what they
    > have to say. I'm also waiting for them to reply by email.


    It's likely they'll just blame your other equipment, and you'll be no
    further toward a solution. The only way to have any leverage with them
    is to try several different cables, modems, and PCs until the weight of
    evidence forces them to admit the fault is with the UPS. I suppose you
    could always send the UPS back for warranty replacement anyway and see
    if the new one behaves the same way.

    --
    James Taylor

  7. [Solved] Re: Belkin UPS Surge-Protected Network Connection

    "James Taylor" wrote in message
    news:1hi9ctd.13fu05dn7bk5rN%usenet@oakseed.demon.c o.uk.invalid...

    I found another 568B patch cable (brand new, sealed, but long forgotten) in
    the back of my closet. I hooked it up, and got a network connection right
    away through the UPS, without even having to power-cycle the modem. Problem
    solved. I'm not sure if this is a quirk of Belkins, or UPS units in general.
    Stranger things have happened.

    > something about the modem or PC that presents differently to the UPS's
    > ports such that the surge protection circuit blocks the flow. Maybe
    > either the modem or PC are outputting a higher voltage than they should.
    > If I had to guess, I'd say it was the modem at fault because the
    > symptoms change according to whether it is connected to IN or OUT, not
    > whether the PC is on the IN or OUT. Does that make sense?


    While there's no practical way to test this, I don't think the UPS will cut
    the connection if there's an excessive input voltage on the Ethernet port.
    It should simply attenuate the voltage to a safe level while maintaining the
    connection, just like it does with the power lines. The only circuit breaker
    on the unit is meant for the output side, in case the UPS gets overloaded
    with too many devices or a short circuit.

    > It's likely they'll just blame your other equipment, and you'll be no
    > further toward a solution. The only way to have any leverage with them
    > is to try several different cables, modems, and PCs until the weight of
    > evidence forces them to admit the fault is with the UPS. I suppose you
    > could always send the UPS back for warranty replacement anyway and see
    > if the new one behaves the same way.


    To my surprise, a Belkin support rep did return my email, with the
    suggestion to pair up two 568A cables. He even left his four-digit phone
    extension in case the solution didn't work, at least giving the appearance
    of being personally accountable for each problem. So far, so good... on wood>

    Thanks for all your help. Cheers!

    --
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."





  8. Re: [Solved] Re: Belkin UPS Surge-Protected Network Connection

    Just to clarify, the unit works now with two 568B cables paired up. I assume
    it'll also work with two 568A cables as well, per the Belkin tech support
    response.

    --
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

    "First of One" wrote in message
    news:QdWdnWC9nux2dy_ZnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
    > I found another 568B patch cable (brand new, sealed, but long forgotten)
    > in
    > the back of my closet. I hooked it up, and got a network connection right
    > away through the UPS, without even having to power-cycle the modem.
    > Problem
    > solved. I'm not sure if this is a quirk of Belkins, or UPS units in
    > general.
    > Stranger things have happened.




  9. Re: [Solved] Re: Belkin UPS Surge-Protected Network Connection

    First of One wrote:

    > I found another 568B patch cable (brand new, sealed, but long forgotten)
    > in the back of my closet. I hooked it up, and got a network connection
    > right away through the UPS, without even having to power-cycle the modem.
    > Problem solved.


    How strange that faulty cable seemed to work fine on the other side of
    the UPS.

    > I'm not sure if this is a quirk of Belkins, or UPS units in general.
    > Stranger things have happened.


    Well I know that gigabit ethernet uses all four twisted pairs whereas 10
    or 100base-T only use two pairs. Maybe the fault lay in one of the wires
    not normally important for 10/100base-T. I'm just hand-waving.

    > To my surprise, a Belkin support rep did return my email, with the
    > suggestion to pair up two 568A cables.


    What possible difference would that make? Ignorant monkey. I'd be
    tempted to ask in what way he imagines the colour of the insulation will
    affect the behaviour of straight-through cables.

    > He even left his four-digit phone extension in case the
    > solution didn't work, at least giving the appearance
    > of being personally accountable for each problem.


    Now that *is* impressive!

    --
    James Taylor

  10. Re: [Solved] Re: Belkin UPS Surge-Protected Network Connection

    First of One wrote:

    > Just to clarify, the unit works now with two 568B cables paired up. I assume
    > it'll also work with two 568A cables as well, per the Belkin tech support
    > response.


    It would also work with any mixture of 568A or 568B cables, as long as
    one of them isn't faulty of course.

    --
    James Taylor

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