F9 - Unmitigated disaster - Redhat

This is a discussion on F9 - Unmitigated disaster - Redhat ; F9 is an unmitigated disaster. I discovered several very serious problems with it. 1) Microphone doesn't work with Skype. Pulse is a disaster. 2) GDM greeter is not configurable. Background users like "Oracle RDBMS" keep popping up in the greeter. ...

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Thread: F9 - Unmitigated disaster

  1. F9 - Unmitigated disaster

    F9 is an unmitigated disaster. I discovered several very serious problems
    with it.

    1) Microphone doesn't work with Skype. Pulse is a disaster.
    2) GDM greeter is not configurable. Background users like "Oracle RDBMS"
    keep popping up in the greeter. The venerable "gdmsetup" program is
    gone.
    3) TCL 8.4 is replaced by TCL 8.5. Very few utilities are able to work
    with 8.5.
    4) NDISWRAPPER is broken. If you have cheaper WLAN card, it is very likely
    that it will not work in F9 and that you will suffer badly to make it
    work.
    5) Known and well documented "init" was replaced by an undocumented
    "upstart", work in progress.

    As far as I understood it, the deal was that Fedora will be a distribution
    of at least RC1 quality, beyond beta, and that we will be looking for
    little quirks here and there. F9 is a disaster, complete alpha, if now
    worse. Also, the compatibility with RH EL is broken on the several levels
    (TCL, init/upstart, GDM). Is it the time to switch to Ubuntu or OpenSuSE?

    --
    Mladen Gogala
    http://mgogala.freehostia.com

  2. Re: F9 - Unmitigated disaster

    Mladen Gogala wrote:
    > F9 is an unmitigated disaster. I discovered several very serious problems
    > with it.
    >
    > 1) Microphone doesn't work with Skype. Pulse is a disaster.
    > 2) GDM greeter is not configurable. Background users like "Oracle RDBMS"
    > keep popping up in the greeter. The venerable "gdmsetup" program is
    > gone.
    > 3) TCL 8.4 is replaced by TCL 8.5. Very few utilities are able to work
    > with 8.5.
    > 4) NDISWRAPPER is broken. If you have cheaper WLAN card, it is very likely
    > that it will not work in F9 and that you will suffer badly to make it
    > work.
    > 5) Known and well documented "init" was replaced by an undocumented
    > "upstart", work in progress.
    >
    > As far as I understood it, the deal was that Fedora will be a distribution
    > of at least RC1 quality, beyond beta, and that we will be looking for
    > little quirks here and there. F9 is a disaster, complete alpha, if now
    > worse. Also, the compatibility with RH EL is broken on the several levels
    > (TCL, init/upstart, GDM). Is it the time to switch to Ubuntu or OpenSuSE?
    >


    There are many complaints going on right now on other Linux newsgroups
    regarding both Ubuntu and OpenSuse. You should try CentOS - also based
    on Red Hat, but it avoids the bleeding edge stuff that is plaguing you
    in Fedora. The current version is 5.2. Another good one is Debian.
    Ubuntu is based on Debian, but again, Debian itself is more mature and
    less bleeding edge.

  3. Re: F9 - Unmitigated disaster

    Bruce Coryell wrote:

    > There are many complaints going on right now on other Linux newsgroups
    > regarding both Ubuntu and OpenSuse. * You should try CentOS - also based
    > on Red Hat, but it avoids the bleeding edge stuff that is plaguing you
    > in Fedora. The current version is 5.2. *Another good one is Debian.
    > Ubuntu is based on Debian, but again, Debian itself is more mature and
    > less bleeding edge.


    I did try CentOS and it is good for server stuff. Unfortunately, the distro
    I am complaining about is meant for desktop. It is hard to get xmms-mp3,
    vlc, ffmpeg or MPlayer for CentOS. I am an experienced Linux user, with
    more then 8 years of Linux experience. Who is Fedora meant for? Is it
    really meant to be so much of the bleeding edge that it's nearly useless?
    What is the idea of rendering ndiswrapper and GDM useless? How about Skype?
    Is it really that hard to be a little more conservative? Fedora used to be
    rather stable distribution, usable both as desktop and server version.
    Can you, at least, tell me whether the issues I listed will be fixed in F10?
    You know, gdmsetup, ndiswrapper and skype? Who will use desktop distros if
    they're so unreliable? I use Fedora since version 1, I used RH 9 before
    that and now I am disappointed to the point that I am considering
    abandoning Fedora altogether. Who is Fedora meant for?
    --
    http://mgogala.freehostia.com

  4. Re: F9 - Unmitigated disaster

    Mladen Gogala wrote:
    > F9 is an unmitigated disaster. I discovered several very serious problems
    > with it.
    >
    > 1) Microphone doesn't work with Skype. Pulse is a disaster.
    > 2) GDM greeter is not configurable. Background users like "Oracle RDBMS"
    > keep popping up in the greeter. The venerable "gdmsetup" program is
    > gone.
    > 3) TCL 8.4 is replaced by TCL 8.5. Very few utilities are able to work
    > with 8.5.
    > 4) NDISWRAPPER is broken. If you have cheaper WLAN card, it is very likely
    > that it will not work in F9 and that you will suffer badly to make it
    > work.
    > 5) Known and well documented "init" was replaced by an undocumented
    > "upstart", work in progress.
    >
    > As far as I understood it, the deal was that Fedora will be a distribution
    > of at least RC1 quality, beyond beta, and that we will be looking for
    > little quirks here and there. F9 is a disaster, complete alpha, if now
    > worse. Also, the compatibility with RH EL is broken on the several levels
    > (TCL, init/upstart, GDM). Is it the time to switch to Ubuntu or OpenSuSE?
    >


    The only one in your list I have run into, is of course #5. I still
    don't see the point to upstart - just seems to be headed back to a BSD
    style startup script.

    The main issue I had on install was that disk enumeration was done
    differently during different parts of the install. If memory serves, I
    told it I wanted stuff installed to sda, and boot loader installed to
    sda. When it didn't boot - all the software got installed to a single
    disk on my raid controller. Took me a while to figure out what it was
    doing wrong. Basically on the 'install software to' option - it picked
    up sdc first (but called it sda... ) and on the next option, sda
    was in fact correct. *wow* did that one get hosed.

    However, once I got things installed - I find I am really liking the distro!

    JR.




    --

    Bill will have to take Linux from my cold, dead flippers.

    -Tux.

  5. Re: F9 - Unmitigated disaster

    Mladen Gogala wrote:

    > F9 is an unmitigated disaster. I discovered several very serious problems
    > with it.
    >
    > 1) Microphone doesn't work with Skype. Pulse is a disaster.
    > 2) GDM greeter is not configurable. Background users like "Oracle RDBMS"
    > keep popping up in the greeter. The venerable "gdmsetup" program is
    > gone.
    > 3) TCL 8.4 is replaced by TCL 8.5. Very few utilities are able to work
    > with 8.5.
    > 4) NDISWRAPPER is broken. If you have cheaper WLAN card, it is very likely
    > that it will not work in F9 and that you will suffer badly to make it
    > work.
    > 5) Known and well documented "init" was replaced by an undocumented
    > "upstart", work in progress.
    >
    > As far as I understood it, the deal was that Fedora will be a distribution
    > of at least RC1 quality, beyond beta, and that we will be looking for
    > little quirks here and there. F9 is a disaster, complete alpha, if now
    > worse. Also, the compatibility with RH EL is broken on the several levels
    > (TCL, init/upstart, GDM). Is it the time to switch to Ubuntu or OpenSuSE?


    Nice list but as I do not knowingly use anything you name I have not seen any
    of those problems. In fact I have no complaints. One man's disaster etc.

    --
    Hodie duodecimo Kalendas Octobres MMVIII est
    -- The Ferric Webcaesar
    http://www.giwersworld.org a1

  6. Re: F9 - Unmitigated disaster

    In article ,
    Mladen Gogala wrote:
    :
    :I did try CentOS and it is good for server stuff. Unfortunately, the distro
    :I am complaining about is meant for desktop. It is hard to get xmms-mp3,
    :vlc, ffmpeg or MPlayer for CentOS.

    For all of those packages, RPMs built for RHEL/CentOS versions 2 through
    5 are available from the RPMforge repo.

    See https://rpmrepo.org/RPMforge/Using .

    --
    Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

  7. Re: F9 - Unmitigated disaster

    Mladen Gogala wrote:
    > Bruce Coryell wrote:
    >
    >> There are many complaints going on right now on other Linux newsgroups
    >> regarding both Ubuntu and OpenSuse. You should try CentOS - also based
    >> on Red Hat, but it avoids the bleeding edge stuff that is plaguing you
    >> in Fedora. The current version is 5.2. Another good one is Debian.
    >> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but again, Debian itself is more mature and
    >> less bleeding edge.

    >
    > I did try CentOS and it is good for server stuff. Unfortunately, the distro
    > I am complaining about is meant for desktop. It is hard to get xmms-mp3,
    > vlc, ffmpeg or MPlayer for CentOS. I am an experienced Linux user, with
    > more then 8 years of Linux experience. Who is Fedora meant for? Is it
    > really meant to be so much of the bleeding edge that it's nearly useless?
    > What is the idea of rendering ndiswrapper and GDM useless? How about Skype?
    > Is it really that hard to be a little more conservative? Fedora used to be
    > rather stable distribution, usable both as desktop and server version.
    > Can you, at least, tell me whether the issues I listed will be fixed in F10?
    > You know, gdmsetup, ndiswrapper and skype? Who will use desktop distros if
    > they're so unreliable? I use Fedora since version 1, I used RH 9 before
    > that and now I am disappointed to the point that I am considering
    > abandoning Fedora altogether. Who is Fedora meant for?


    Fedora is bleeding edge, and allows RHEL to be server stable. This is a big
    issue in Linux: the tradeoffs between toolkits written last week and dependent
    on widgets written last month and never stres tested, and the stuff that's had
    a few thousand man-hours invested in debugging in the field, is huge.

    For MPEG players for Linux, you have a licensing and software patent issue. If
    you're in the US, you sort of have to buy the licenses and software for server
    use. But since I'm not in the USA right now and don't have to worry about
    software patents for now, I look over at the 'Penguin Liberation Front' and
    their Mandriva based tools to port over to RHEL or Fedora, as needed.

  8. Re: F9 - Unmitigated disaster

    Robert Nichols wrote:

    > In article ,
    > Mladen Gogala wrote:
    > :
    > :I did try CentOS and it is good for server stuff. Unfortunately, the
    > :distro I am complaining about is meant for desktop. It is hard to get
    > :xmms-mp3, vlc, ffmpeg or MPlayer for CentOS.
    >
    > For all of those packages, RPMs built for RHEL/CentOS versions 2 through
    > 5 are available from the RPMforge repo.
    >
    > See https://rpmrepo.org/RPMforge/Using .
    >


    I was not aware of that repository. The only things I have in my yum.repos.d
    are the official CentOS repos and Freshrpms. I will check and let you know.

    --
    http://mgogala.freehostia.com

  9. Re: F9 - Unmitigated disaster

    In article ,
    Mladen Gogala wrote:
    :Robert Nichols wrote:
    :
    :> In article ,
    :> Mladen Gogala wrote:
    :> :
    :> :I did try CentOS and it is good for server stuff. Unfortunately, the
    :> :distro I am complaining about is meant for desktop. It is hard to get
    :> :xmms-mp3, vlc, ffmpeg or MPlayer for CentOS.
    :>
    :> For all of those packages, RPMs built for RHEL/CentOS versions 2 through
    :> 5 are available from the RPMforge repo.
    :>
    :> See https://rpmrepo.org/RPMforge/Using .
    :>
    :
    :I was not aware of that repository. The only things I have in my yum.repos.d
    :are the official CentOS repos and Freshrpms. I will check and let you know.

    You also need to be aware that the only way to get a recent version of
    mplayer is to build from source. All the compiled packages I'm aware of
    are built on the latest mplayer release, 1.0rc2, from 27 Oct 2007, with
    only security updates added. Some of the mplayer developers have
    indicated that the likelihood of a new "release" version any time soon
    is pretty low.

    If you've got the necessary development tools and libraries installed,
    the source snapshots available from www.mplayerhq.hu generally build and
    run quite nicely, but on any given day YMMV.

    Personally, I install the RPM from RPMforge so that all the dependencies
    get satisfied, but I actually run a version compiled from source and
    installed in /usr/local.

    --
    Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

  10. Re: F9 - Unmitigated disaster

    Mladen Gogala wrote :
    > F9 is an unmitigated disaster. I discovered several very serious problems
    > with it.
    >
    > 1) Microphone doesn't work with Skype. Pulse is a disaster.
    > 2) GDM greeter is not configurable. Background users like "Oracle RDBMS"
    > keep popping up in the greeter. The venerable "gdmsetup" program is
    > gone.
    > 3) TCL 8.4 is replaced by TCL 8.5. Very few utilities are able to work
    > with 8.5.
    > 4) NDISWRAPPER is broken. If you have cheaper WLAN card, it is very likely
    > that it will not work in F9 and that you will suffer badly to make it
    > work.
    > 5) Known and well documented "init" was replaced by an undocumented
    > "upstart", work in progress.
    >
    > As far as I understood it, the deal was that Fedora will be a distribution
    > of at least RC1 quality, beyond beta, and that we will be looking for
    > little quirks here and there. F9 is a disaster, complete alpha, if now
    > worse. Also, the compatibility with RH EL is broken on the several levels
    > (TCL, init/upstart, GDM). Is it the time to switch to Ubuntu or OpenSuSE?


    I employ CentOS on at least 150 servers and i can't help but wonder
    what userbase will stick around through alpha-testing-like issues such
    as these. i only felt the need to comment because i appreciate the
    service that each and every fedora user provides me. i wouldn't want to
    see them chased off.



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