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  1. Redhat Licensing

    If I need to install RHEL desktop on 100 users PCs do I need to buy
    support for each one of them? Or can buy support for one PC and
    install the software on the others even if I don’t get support for the
    others?

  2. Re: Redhat Licensing

    1PW wrote:
    > On 08/29/2008 10:40 PM, Artificer sent:
    >> If I need to install RHEL desktop on 100 users PCs do I need to buy
    >> support for each one of them? Or can buy support for one PC and
    >> install the software on the others even if I don’t get support for the
    >> others?

    >
    > The later is what my last employer did. Think about going to CentOS for
    > the majority, using Yum for all your updates. Then perhaps you could
    > afford the most expensive support that Red Hat offers for one lone PC.
    > This would certainly work if all hardware configurations are identical.
    >


    I am not a lawyer, just an ethical sys-admin who hates to steal. The places
    I've worked would fire you in a heartbeat for that. It's software piracy.
    Don't do it: it's a very bad example to teach the 100 users, whether they're
    business users or students. And it's the same stunt cheap middle managers pull
    with MicroSoft Office or MSDN licenses.

    If you need to support 100 PC's, consider hiring a reasonable competent
    engineer and using CentOS, or go with RedHat licenses which are not too
    expensive if you will actually need their help with software updates and
    software integration issues, with which they can provide commercial help. It's
    a choice you cna make. And use their commercial support *instead* of hiring an
    other engineer.

  3. Re: Redhat Licensing

    On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:40:06 -0700, Artificer wrote:

    > If I need to install RHEL desktop on 100 users PCs do I need to buy
    > support for each one of them? Or can buy support for one PC and install
    > the software on the others even if I don’t get support for the others?


    Why don't you talk to Redhat about this? Redhat sells support contracts,
    not software, the software is GPLed so you can do what you want with it.
    What you can't do is buy support for one system and then make support
    requests for 100 systems, that would be fraud. You should ask Redhat what
    sort of support contracts they have available. If they have a per incident
    support contract then you could use that to support as many users as you
    want. Even if they don't they will probably offer you a discount for a 100
    system contract. If you don't need Redhat support at all then you should
    just use CentOS. Even though it's probably OK to put RHEL on all of your
    systems, I'd use CentOS just to remove all doubt.

  4. Re: Redhat Licensing

    On Aug 30, 7:43*am, General Schvantzkopf
    wrote:
    > On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:40:06 -0700, Artificer wrote:
    > > If I need to install RHEL desktop on 100 users PCs do I need to buy
    > > support for each one of them? Or can buy support for one PC and install
    > > the software on the others even if I don’t get support for the others?

    >
    > Why don't you talk to Redhat about this? Redhat sells support contracts,
    > not software, the software is GPLed so you can do what you want with it.
    > What you can't do is buy support for one system and then make support
    > requests for 100 systems, that would be fraud. You should ask Redhat what
    > sort of support contracts they have available. If they have a per incident
    > support contract then you could use that to support as many users as you
    > want. Even if they don't they will probably offer you a discount for a 100
    > system contract. If you don't need Redhat support at all then you should
    > just use CentOS. Even though it's probably OK to put RHEL on all of your
    > systems, I'd use CentOS just to remove all doubt.


    Thanks a lot!

  5. Re: Redhat Licensing

    General Schvantzkopf wrote:
    > On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:40:06 -0700, Artificer wrote:
    >
    >
    >>If I need to install RHEL desktop on 100 users PCs do I need to buy
    >>support for each one of them? Or can buy support for one PC and install
    >>the software on the others even if I don’t get support for the others?

    >
    >
    > Why don't you talk to Redhat about this? Redhat sells support contracts,
    > not software, the software is GPLed so you can do what you want with it.
    > What you can't do is buy support for one system and then make support
    > requests for 100 systems, that would be fraud. You should ask Redhat what
    > sort of support contracts they have available. If they have a per incident
    > support contract then you could use that to support as many users as you
    > want. Even if they don't they will probably offer you a discount for a 100
    > system contract. If you don't need Redhat support at all then you should
    > just use CentOS. Even though it's probably OK to put RHEL on all of your
    > systems, I'd use CentOS just to remove all doubt.

    LS,


    The only support contract types they have are based on a per system base.

    Always unlimited number of calls.

    There are bundle prices for bigger quanties of Desktop subscriptions.

    Call your nearest Red Hat office for pricing.

    The standard pricing can be found on the localized Red Hat store or Red
    Hat shop on the Red Hat website.

    There are 4 type of "Desktop" subscriptions, so visit first
    https://www.redhat.com/apps/store/desktop/
    or the local version to be sure to pick the right subscription.


    If you would want to go for 'cheap' you could setup a Linux terminal
    server with 'dump' X-terminals. Disadvantage of that is, it might take a
    lot of time to setup if you do not know the details.
    Just a suggestion, I did not do it yet. Still have a book laying around
    somewhere.


    Kind regards,


    Jan Gerrit.


  6. Re: Redhat Licensing

    Jan Gerrit Kootstra wrote:
    > General Schvantzkopf wrote:
    >> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:40:06 -0700, Artificer wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> If I need to install RHEL desktop on 100 users PCs do I need to buy
    >>> support for each one of them? Or can buy support for one PC and install
    >>> the software on the others even if I don’t get support for the others?

    >>
    >>
    >> Why don't you talk to Redhat about this? Redhat sells support
    >> contracts, not software, the software is GPLed so you can do what you
    >> want with it. What you can't do is buy support for one system and then
    >> make support requests for 100 systems, that would be fraud. You should
    >> ask Redhat what sort of support contracts they have available. If they
    >> have a per incident support contract then you could use that to
    >> support as many users as you want. Even if they don't they will
    >> probably offer you a discount for a 100 system contract. If you don't
    >> need Redhat support at all then you should just use CentOS. Even
    >> though it's probably OK to put RHEL on all of your systems, I'd use
    >> CentOS just to remove all doubt.

    > LS,
    >
    >
    > The only support contract types they have are based on a per system base.
    >
    > Always unlimited number of calls.
    >
    > There are bundle prices for bigger quanties of Desktop subscriptions.
    >
    > Call your nearest Red Hat office for pricing.
    >
    > The standard pricing can be found on the localized Red Hat store or Red
    > Hat shop on the Red Hat website.
    >
    > There are 4 type of "Desktop" subscriptions, so visit first
    > https://www.redhat.com/apps/store/desktop/
    > or the local version to be sure to pick the right subscription.
    >
    >
    > If you would want to go for 'cheap' you could setup a Linux terminal
    > server with 'dump' X-terminals. Disadvantage of that is, it might take a
    > lot of time to setup if you do not know the details.
    > Just a suggestion, I did not do it yet. Still have a book laying around
    > somewhere.


    Supporting one hundred copies of FireFox, OpenOffice, and the necessary
    thin-client X tools at the same time for one hundred clients is begging for
    pain on any single system.

  7. Re: Redhat Licensing

    Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
    > Jan Gerrit Kootstra wrote:
    >
    >> General Schvantzkopf wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:40:06 -0700, Artificer wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> If I need to install RHEL desktop on 100 users PCs do I need to buy
    >>>> support for each one of them? Or can buy support for one PC and install
    >>>> the software on the others even if I don’t get support for the others?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Why don't you talk to Redhat about this? Redhat sells support
    >>> contracts, not software, the software is GPLed so you can do what you
    >>> want with it. What you can't do is buy support for one system and
    >>> then make support requests for 100 systems, that would be fraud. You
    >>> should ask Redhat what sort of support contracts they have available.
    >>> If they have a per incident support contract then you could use that
    >>> to support as many users as you want. Even if they don't they will
    >>> probably offer you a discount for a 100 system contract. If you don't
    >>> need Redhat support at all then you should just use CentOS. Even
    >>> though it's probably OK to put RHEL on all of your systems, I'd use
    >>> CentOS just to remove all doubt.

    >>
    >> LS,
    >>
    >>
    >> The only support contract types they have are based on a per system base.
    >>
    >> Always unlimited number of calls.
    >>
    >> There are bundle prices for bigger quanties of Desktop subscriptions.
    >>
    >> Call your nearest Red Hat office for pricing.
    >>
    >> The standard pricing can be found on the localized Red Hat store or
    >> Red Hat shop on the Red Hat website.
    >>
    >> There are 4 type of "Desktop" subscriptions, so visit first
    >> https://www.redhat.com/apps/store/desktop/
    >> or the local version to be sure to pick the right subscription.
    >>
    >>
    >> If you would want to go for 'cheap' you could setup a Linux terminal
    >> server with 'dump' X-terminals. Disadvantage of that is, it might take
    >> a lot of time to setup if you do not know the details.
    >> Just a suggestion, I did not do it yet. Still have a book laying
    >> around somewhere.

    >
    >
    > Supporting one hundred copies of FireFox, OpenOffice, and the necessary
    > thin-client X tools at the same time for one hundred clients is begging
    > for pain on any single system.

    Nico,


    A Dump-terminal runs no software at all. It is just started and
    downloads it X-Server.

    After that it just activates the "office applications" on the central
    server, like a Windows 2003 Server, terminal server environment.

    I did mention 'cheap' for nothing, it takes some time to setup.

    RHEL Desktop can have a centralized management by introducing a RHN
    Sattelite Server. It is a bit costly.


    Kind regards,


    Jan Gerrit Kootstra



  8. Re: Redhat Licensing

    Jan Gerrit Kootstra wrote:
    > Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
    >> Jan Gerrit Kootstra wrote:
    >>
    >>> General Schvantzkopf wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:40:06 -0700, Artificer wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> If I need to install RHEL desktop on 100 users PCs do I need to buy
    >>>>> support for each one of them? Or can buy support for one PC and
    >>>>> install
    >>>>> the software on the others even if I don’t get support for the others?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Why don't you talk to Redhat about this? Redhat sells support
    >>>> contracts, not software, the software is GPLed so you can do what
    >>>> you want with it. What you can't do is buy support for one system
    >>>> and then make support requests for 100 systems, that would be fraud.
    >>>> You should ask Redhat what sort of support contracts they have
    >>>> available. If they have a per incident support contract then you
    >>>> could use that to support as many users as you want. Even if they
    >>>> don't they will probably offer you a discount for a 100 system
    >>>> contract. If you don't need Redhat support at all then you should
    >>>> just use CentOS. Even though it's probably OK to put RHEL on all of
    >>>> your systems, I'd use CentOS just to remove all doubt.
    >>>
    >>> LS,
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> The only support contract types they have are based on a per system
    >>> base.
    >>>
    >>> Always unlimited number of calls.
    >>>
    >>> There are bundle prices for bigger quanties of Desktop subscriptions.
    >>>
    >>> Call your nearest Red Hat office for pricing.
    >>>
    >>> The standard pricing can be found on the localized Red Hat store or
    >>> Red Hat shop on the Red Hat website.
    >>>
    >>> There are 4 type of "Desktop" subscriptions, so visit first
    >>> https://www.redhat.com/apps/store/desktop/
    >>> or the local version to be sure to pick the right subscription.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> If you would want to go for 'cheap' you could setup a Linux terminal
    >>> server with 'dump' X-terminals. Disadvantage of that is, it might
    >>> take a lot of time to setup if you do not know the details.
    >>> Just a suggestion, I did not do it yet. Still have a book laying
    >>> around somewhere.

    >>
    >>
    >> Supporting one hundred copies of FireFox, OpenOffice, and the
    >> necessary thin-client X tools at the same time for one hundred clients
    >> is begging for pain on any single system.

    > Nico,
    >
    >
    > A Dump-terminal runs no software at all. It is just started and
    > downloads it X-Server.


    X is *not* a cheap client/server protocol in computatonal terms. It's
    amazingly powerful, and horribly inefficient.

    > After that it just activates the "office applications" on the central
    > server, like a Windows 2003 Server, terminal server environment.


    And that server is going to be *HAMMERED* by running dozens, or a hundred,
    instances of Firefox and OpenOffice, the two applications most likely to be
    used by the clients.

    > I did mention 'cheap' for nothing, it takes some time to setup.
    >
    > RHEL Desktop can have a centralized management by introducing a RHN
    > Sattelite Server. It is a bit costly.
    >
    >
    > Kind regards,
    >
    >
    > Jan Gerrit Kootstra


    Yes, it's over 10,000 pounds here in the UK. It's basically a customized
    Oracle server providing the RHN toolkit, and you still have to write a lot of
    your own monitoring and management scripts. You might as well use any of the
    other more powerful and editable tools such as CFEngine and a local yum
    repository, since you pretty much have to do the scripting work anyway for a
    varied system. The package management toolkit is nice, except that (at last
    look) it doesn't properly handle non-RedHat off-site repositories such as EPEL
    or RPMforge.

    I'd be glad to know if that's been fixed.

  9. Re: Redhat Licensing

    Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
    > Jan Gerrit Kootstra wrote:
    >
    >> Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
    >>
    >>> Jan Gerrit Kootstra wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> General Schvantzkopf wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:40:06 -0700, Artificer wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> If I need to install RHEL desktop on 100 users PCs do I need to buy
    >>>>>> support for each one of them? Or can buy support for one PC and
    >>>>>> install
    >>>>>> the software on the others even if I don’t get support for the
    >>>>>> others?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Why don't you talk to Redhat about this? Redhat sells support
    >>>>> contracts, not software, the software is GPLed so you can do what
    >>>>> you want with it. What you can't do is buy support for one system
    >>>>> and then make support requests for 100 systems, that would be
    >>>>> fraud. You should ask Redhat what sort of support contracts they
    >>>>> have available. If they have a per incident support contract then
    >>>>> you could use that to support as many users as you want. Even if
    >>>>> they don't they will probably offer you a discount for a 100 system
    >>>>> contract. If you don't need Redhat support at all then you should
    >>>>> just use CentOS. Even though it's probably OK to put RHEL on all of
    >>>>> your systems, I'd use CentOS just to remove all doubt.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> LS,
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> The only support contract types they have are based on a per system
    >>>> base.
    >>>>
    >>>> Always unlimited number of calls.
    >>>>
    >>>> There are bundle prices for bigger quanties of Desktop subscriptions.
    >>>>
    >>>> Call your nearest Red Hat office for pricing.
    >>>>
    >>>> The standard pricing can be found on the localized Red Hat store or
    >>>> Red Hat shop on the Red Hat website.
    >>>>
    >>>> There are 4 type of "Desktop" subscriptions, so visit first
    >>>> https://www.redhat.com/apps/store/desktop/
    >>>> or the local version to be sure to pick the right subscription.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> If you would want to go for 'cheap' you could setup a Linux terminal
    >>>> server with 'dump' X-terminals. Disadvantage of that is, it might
    >>>> take a lot of time to setup if you do not know the details.
    >>>> Just a suggestion, I did not do it yet. Still have a book laying
    >>>> around somewhere.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Supporting one hundred copies of FireFox, OpenOffice, and the
    >>> necessary thin-client X tools at the same time for one hundred
    >>> clients is begging for pain on any single system.

    >>
    >> Nico,
    >>
    >>
    >> A Dump-terminal runs no software at all. It is just started and
    >> downloads it X-Server.

    >
    >
    > X is *not* a cheap client/server protocol in computatonal terms. It's
    > amazingly powerful, and horribly inefficient.
    >
    >> After that it just activates the "office applications" on the central
    >> server, like a Windows 2003 Server, terminal server environment.

    >
    >
    > And that server is going to be *HAMMERED* by running dozens, or a
    > hundred, instances of Firefox and OpenOffice, the two applications most
    > likely to be used by the clients.
    >
    >> I did mention 'cheap' for nothing, it takes some time to setup.
    >>
    >> RHEL Desktop can have a centralized management by introducing a RHN
    >> Sattelite Server. It is a bit costly.
    >>
    >>
    >> Kind regards,
    >>
    >>
    >> Jan Gerrit Kootstra

    >
    >
    > Yes, it's over 10,000 pounds here in the UK. It's basically a customized
    > Oracle server providing the RHN toolkit, and you still have to write a
    > lot of your own monitoring and management scripts. You might as well use
    > any of the other more powerful and editable tools such as CFEngine and a
    > local yum repository, since you pretty much have to do the scripting
    > work anyway for a varied system. The package management toolkit is nice,
    > except that (at last look) it doesn't properly handle non-RedHat
    > off-site repositories such as EPEL or RPMforge.
    >
    > I'd be glad to know if that's been fixed.

    Nico,


    I cannot go into detail, I do manage a RHN Sattelite server myself. I
    only know that the team that manages the RHN Sattelite distributes epel
    and some self created repos.

    It should be able to do so, because it is a part of the RHCA training
    and exams.


    Kind regards,


    Jan Gerrit Kootstra

  10. Re: Redhat Licensing

    Jan Gerrit Kootstra wrote:
    > Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
    >> Jan Gerrit Kootstra wrote:
    >>
    >>> Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Jan Gerrit Kootstra wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> General Schvantzkopf wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:40:06 -0700, Artificer wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> If I need to install RHEL desktop on 100 users PCs do I need to buy
    >>>>>>> support for each one of them? Or can buy support for one PC and
    >>>>>>> install
    >>>>>>> the software on the others even if I don’t get support for the
    >>>>>>> others?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Why don't you talk to Redhat about this? Redhat sells support
    >>>>>> contracts, not software, the software is GPLed so you can do what
    >>>>>> you want with it. What you can't do is buy support for one system
    >>>>>> and then make support requests for 100 systems, that would be
    >>>>>> fraud. You should ask Redhat what sort of support contracts they
    >>>>>> have available. If they have a per incident support contract then
    >>>>>> you could use that to support as many users as you want. Even if
    >>>>>> they don't they will probably offer you a discount for a 100
    >>>>>> system contract. If you don't need Redhat support at all then you
    >>>>>> should just use CentOS. Even though it's probably OK to put RHEL
    >>>>>> on all of your systems, I'd use CentOS just to remove all doubt.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> LS,
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The only support contract types they have are based on a per system
    >>>>> base.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Always unlimited number of calls.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> There are bundle prices for bigger quanties of Desktop subscriptions.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Call your nearest Red Hat office for pricing.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The standard pricing can be found on the localized Red Hat store or
    >>>>> Red Hat shop on the Red Hat website.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> There are 4 type of "Desktop" subscriptions, so visit first
    >>>>> https://www.redhat.com/apps/store/desktop/
    >>>>> or the local version to be sure to pick the right subscription.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If you would want to go for 'cheap' you could setup a Linux
    >>>>> terminal server with 'dump' X-terminals. Disadvantage of that is,
    >>>>> it might take a lot of time to setup if you do not know the details.
    >>>>> Just a suggestion, I did not do it yet. Still have a book laying
    >>>>> around somewhere.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Supporting one hundred copies of FireFox, OpenOffice, and the
    >>>> necessary thin-client X tools at the same time for one hundred
    >>>> clients is begging for pain on any single system.
    >>>
    >>> Nico,
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> A Dump-terminal runs no software at all. It is just started and
    >>> downloads it X-Server.

    >>
    >>
    >> X is *not* a cheap client/server protocol in computatonal terms. It's
    >> amazingly powerful, and horribly inefficient.
    >>
    >>> After that it just activates the "office applications" on the central
    >>> server, like a Windows 2003 Server, terminal server environment.

    >>
    >>
    >> And that server is going to be *HAMMERED* by running dozens, or a
    >> hundred, instances of Firefox and OpenOffice, the two applications
    >> most likely to be used by the clients.
    >>
    >>> I did mention 'cheap' for nothing, it takes some time to setup.
    >>>
    >>> RHEL Desktop can have a centralized management by introducing a RHN
    >>> Sattelite Server. It is a bit costly.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Kind regards,
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Jan Gerrit Kootstra

    >>
    >>
    >> Yes, it's over 10,000 pounds here in the UK. It's basically a
    >> customized Oracle server providing the RHN toolkit, and you still have
    >> to write a lot of your own monitoring and management scripts. You
    >> might as well use any of the other more powerful and editable tools
    >> such as CFEngine and a local yum repository, since you pretty much
    >> have to do the scripting work anyway for a varied system. The package
    >> management toolkit is nice, except that (at last look) it doesn't
    >> properly handle non-RedHat off-site repositories such as EPEL or
    >> RPMforge.
    >>
    >> I'd be glad to know if that's been fixed.

    > Nico,
    >
    >
    > I cannot go into detail, I do manage a RHN Sattelite server myself. I
    > only know that the team that manages the RHN Sattelite distributes epel
    > and some self created repos.
    >
    > It should be able to do so, because it is a part of the RHCA training
    > and exams.
    >
    >
    > Kind regards,
    >
    >
    > Jan Gerrit Kootstra


    Well, I'm *very* curious how you they do it: the resolutions between similar
    revisions of packages from RedHat repositories, EPEL, RPMforge, and local
    revisions are nasty to keep resolved due to the poor integration of
    yum-rhn-plugin, which is up2date wearing grandma's dress, and normal yum
    channels. Perhaps there have been good updates to RHN Satellite to manage it?
    Or perhaps they don't use so many local package versions as I tend to.

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