Redhat certification - Redhat

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  1. Redhat certification

    hi everyone ,
    i am a linux newbie and i've started out with redhat (RHEL 5) .
    Eventually , i'd like to go for linux certification in redhat . It
    would be highly appreciative if you could tell me the best
    certification resources for redhat out there ( but i do not want a
    book that lists out everything in a dry manner as if it were made for
    rote learning....i want the concepts to come through) . Right now i am
    studying Introduction to Linux of the Linux Documentation Process . am
    i on the right path ??
    Thanking in anticipation .
    Vaib .

  2. Re: Redhat certification

    Can't give you any tips on resources to use, but go to
    http://www.redhat.com/certification/
    They lay out all the things covered by RHCT/RHCE/RHCA. As for not
    wanting dry rote learning, I'd suggest taking the RH133 class. Red
    Hat's training is superb.

  3. Re: Redhat certification

    On 15 Jul, 22:43, ryran wrote:
    > Can't give you any tips on resources to use, but go tohttp://www.redhat.com/certification/
    > They lay out all the things covered by RHCT/RHCE/RHCA.


    Thanx for the reply Ryran . i'll surely visit it .




    > I'd suggest taking the RH133 class. Red
    > Hat's training is superb.


    don't you think i should take RH033 first ?? what the difference
    anyway ?

  4. Re: Redhat certification

    Follow the link through to the RH033 page and look at the course
    outline. If you can spend a week or two covering all those things
    yourself using your friend google, and if you can then successfully
    take a RH133 pre-assessment questionnaire .. well, then.. you'll be
    fine skipping 033 obviously.

    If you have no Linux experience however, you'll probably want to start
    with 033--unless you're a very motivated, very disciplined self-
    learner.

  5. Re: Redhat certification

    On Jul 16, 1:13*pm, ryran wrote:
    > Follow the link through to the RH033 page and look at the course
    > outline. If you can spend a week or two covering all those things
    > yourself using your friend google, and if you can then successfully
    > take a RH133 pre-assessment questionnaire .. well, then.. you'll be
    > fine skipping 033 obviously.


    yes i had a look at the site . although i do not know 033 stuff much
    but i think i can cover it myself - i 've started studying and
    practising linux from a very good linux book (Rute User's tutorial and
    exposition) . i am finding it very good and i also often refer to
    'intro to linux' of the Linux Documantation Project' . all this would
    suffice i guess . besides , i want to do things myself first and then
    go for certification training . do you think its fine ? thank you ,
    won't bother again . Vaib .


  6. Re: Redhat certification

    vaib wrote:
    > hi everyone ,
    > i am a linux newbie and i've started out with redhat (RHEL 5) .
    > Eventually , i'd like to go for linux certification in redhat . It
    > would be highly appreciative if you could tell me the best
    > certification resources for redhat out there ( but i do not want a
    > book that lists out everything in a dry manner as if it were made for
    > rote learning....i want the concepts to come through) . Right now i am
    > studying Introduction to Linux of the Linux Documentation Process . am
    > i on the right path ??
    > Thanking in anticipation .
    > Vaib .


    To be Devils advocate, if you are new, why do you want certification?
    Certifications without experience pretty much does nothing for you job
    wise. I personally have the experience and did a few certs (not the
    RHCE) to fill in the blanks on the CV. I am not even certain it would
    help me in a job respect since most people wised up with the flood of
    MCSE's years ago.... I have seen being an MCSE as a requirement for
    Helpdesks now. Certs are good if you have the experience to back them
    up, or you are using the books purely to learn in a dry, point blank
    manner which you are going to apply with practical "playing around"
    (which is worth more than anything IMHO). If you want to learn Linux,
    skip the certs and put the $$$ towards a few cheap systems - you will
    learn more, and get some experience.

    JR.


    --

    Bill will have to take Linux from my cold, dead flippers.

    -Tux.

  7. Re: Redhat certification

    > Certs are good if you have the experience to back them
    > up, or you are using the books purely to learn in a dry, point blank
    > manner which you are going to apply with practical "playing around"
    > (which is worth more than anything IMHO). *If you want to learn Linux,
    > skip the certs and put the $$$ towards a few cheap systems - you will
    > learn more, and get some experience.


    If I may be so bold, I think the point you're missing is that you
    can't get certifications from REDHAT without actually knowing quite a
    bit. RHCE!=MCSE. Redhat's RHCE course track is designed to accomodate
    someone with no Linux experience. Taking their courses, starting at
    the very beginning, _would_ provide a whole lot of hands-on
    experience--more than enough to jumpstart a brand new career in my
    opinion (assuming there's genuine interest to follow through).

  8. Re: Redhat certification

    ryran wrote:
    >> Certs are good if you have the experience to back them
    >> up, or you are using the books purely to learn in a dry, point blank
    >> manner which you are going to apply with practical "playing around"
    >> (which is worth more than anything IMHO). If you want to learn Linux,
    >> skip the certs and put the $$$ towards a few cheap systems - you will
    >> learn more, and get some experience.

    >
    > If I may be so bold, I think the point you're missing is that you
    > can't get certifications from REDHAT without actually knowing quite a
    > bit. RHCE!=MCSE. Redhat's RHCE course track is designed to accomodate
    > someone with no Linux experience. Taking their courses, starting at
    > the very beginning, _would_ provide a whole lot of hands-on
    > experience--more than enough to jumpstart a brand new career in my
    > opinion (assuming there's genuine interest to follow through).


    No problems! I am however not missing that point. The RHCE track
    will of course follow a route for new comers to Linux, as they have to
    populate the courses. What you seem to be missing is that a lot of
    people take the courses, get the cert, and expect to walk into an
    Enterprise environment as a "senior" because they have a cert. This is
    simply not realistic to any extent. It is not even IMHO enough of a
    qualification to set up a server for a small business - they simply do
    not have the experience. Certs do not jump-start careers - people who
    work hard and learn jump start their careers. I started my career
    working for free for almost a year... got hired, and now manage an
    Enterprise environment. I had no certs all the way until I decided to
    fill in some blanks on my CV. The certs do no good without *actual*
    experience - a course or 10 is not *actual* experience - you have no
    users, you have no load, and probably don't have the "big" stuff that
    one would find in a server room. You are quite correct in saying that
    a genuine interest has to follow - but I feel that a passion is more the
    drive that makes on successful doing SA work. I do this as my job, I do
    it for fun, and I do it for side contracts - I have a passion for it,
    and do pretty well at the same time!

    JR.

    (apologies if this gets post more than once - my ISPs must have cheap
    certified admins as they suck and don't know how to configure things
    properly - having issues with them.)


    --

    Bill will have to take Linux from my cold, dead flippers.

    -Tux.

  9. Re: Redhat certification

    Johnny Rebel wrote:
    > What you seem to be missing is that a lot of
    > people take the courses, get the cert, and expect to walk into an
    > Enterprise environment as a "senior" because they have a cert. This is
    > simply not realistic to any extent.


    Ah. Well I suppose I am "missing" that. heh. I wouldn't have thought
    anyone would expect to walk in as a senior solely because of an
    RHCE... In short, I agree with you.

    > It is not even IMHO enough of a
    > qualification to set up a server for a small business - they simply do
    > not have the experience. Certs do not jump-start careers - people who
    > work hard and learn jump start their careers.


    I didn't mean that certificates literally jump-start careers--
    obviously you have to do that yourself; I was just trying to say that
    going through the courses and learning, to the point where you can
    easily get an RHCE, should give you the skills and momentum necessary
    to start a career. ... And in that scenario, I might disagree with
    you on setting up a smb server--but we can certainly agree that
    experience with real systems outside of class is essential. Perhaps
    the real difference is.. well, the impression I get (possibly
    mistakenly) from your writing, is that you feel garnering _experience_
    take AGES, which I, being pretty darn new to the Linux world,
    naturally would disagree with. ;-)

    > You are quite correct in saying that
    > a genuine interest has to follow - but I feel that a passion is more the
    > drive that makes on successful doing SA work. I do this as my job, I do
    > it for fun, and I do it for side contracts - I have a passion for it,
    > and do pretty well at the same time!


    Awesome! I'm with ya there.

  10. Re: Redhat certification

    ryran wrote:
    > Johnny Rebel wrote:
    >> What you seem to be missing is that a lot of
    >> people take the courses, get the cert, and expect to walk into an
    >> Enterprise environment as a "senior" because they have a cert. This is
    >> simply not realistic to any extent.

    >
    > Ah. Well I suppose I am "missing" that. heh. I wouldn't have thought
    > anyone would expect to walk in as a senior solely because of an
    > RHCE... In short, I agree with you.


    Oh, I have seen quite a few of them in my professional career - you
    would be surprised. It is especially bad in the Windows world.

    >
    >> It is not even IMHO enough of a
    >> qualification to set up a server for a small business - they simply do
    >> not have the experience. Certs do not jump-start careers - people who
    >> work hard and learn jump start their careers.

    >
    > I didn't mean that certificates literally jump-start careers--
    > obviously you have to do that yourself; I was just trying to say that
    > going through the courses and learning, to the point where you can
    > easily get an RHCE, should give you the skills and momentum necessary
    > to start a career.


    I found when I first started that going through all the cert
    books(without actually writing them) definitely gave me a direction to
    study towards. It gave me buzz-words and a few interesting tidbits.
    When I am trying to learn some new stuff I usually go for the cert books
    simply because it will tell me what I need to know in short precise
    chapters.... then I expand on that with the "doing" part. Works for me.
    I believe we agree on this point which neither of us can explain very
    well!!

    .... And in that scenario, I might disagree with
    > you on setting up a smb server--but we can certainly agree that
    > experience with real systems outside of class is essential. Perhaps
    > the real difference is.. well, the impression I get (possibly
    > mistakenly) from your writing, is that you feel garnering _experience_
    > take AGES, which I, being pretty darn new to the Linux world,
    > naturally would disagree with. ;-)


    hehehehe... I have been working this stuff for 10 years now and still
    will not call myself a 'senior' admin. Could be due to the fact
    that my mentor type is *that* good. But yes, getting/retaining and
    applying everything you know - does take years (and years... and
    years... ). I would laugh at anyone under 5 years that calls themselves
    a senior, and would be pretty apprehensive at the same - between 5-7
    years. What some people think is senior is typically more an advanced
    intermediate (more where I place myself on a realistic level - I have
    not mastered the art (black art) of system tuning yet (except at a
    rudimentary level). Well, setting up an SMB server itself is not that
    bad - administering one with users can be a little mind numbing at times
    (I spent yesterday and a good portion of today trying to resolve some
    issues with mine...). I understand you want to disagree, but do
    not discount the amount of things you have to learn to get to a position
    - there is a *lot* of things to know.

    >
    >> You are quite correct in saying that
    >> a genuine interest has to follow - but I feel that a passion is more the
    >> drive that makes on successful doing SA work. I do this as my job, I do
    >> it for fun, and I do it for side contracts - I have a passion for it,
    >> and do pretty well at the same time!

    >
    > Awesome! I'm with ya there.


    Hard to disagree with that!! But most that have a passion with/on
    something, excel in the field.

    JR.



    --

    Bill will have to take Linux from my cold, dead flippers.

    -Tux.

  11. Re: Redhat certification

    > To be Devils advocate, if you are new, why do you want certification?

    no . its not that i really want a cert bit i thought it would be nice
    to have one . i am keen to learn linux actually .


    >*If you want to learn Linux,
    > skip the certs and put the $$$ towards a few cheap systems - you will
    > learn more, and get some experience.



    what do you mean by 'a few cheap systems' ? thank you .

  12. Re: Redhat certification


    > Using books from the LDP? * Yes, that's a very good learning source,
    > but you've also got to be _using_ the O/S. *Nothing beats experience.


    yes i actually _do_ what i read from the books .


    > >If you want to learn Linux, skip the certs and put the $$$ towards a
    > >few cheap systems - you will learn more, and get some experience.

    >
    > * * * * * * * * * * *^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >
    > Read what he said. *Unless you are sure that the job requires the GUI
    > admin experience, learn the commands that actually do the job. Other
    > distributions don't use the Red Hat specific tools, nor do the various
    > versions of UNIX. But if you know how to get information from (for
    > example) 'ps aux' or 'netstat -antu' you'll be a lot more desirable
    > and will get a better job. (The "Advanced Bash Scripting" guide from
    > the LDP is _very_ useful.)


    there is no specific job that i am looking out for . i am not a GUI
    guy . i want to be a command-line ( shell ) expert .
    thank you for your advice . i really appreciate that .

  13. Re: Redhat certification

    On Sat, 19 Jul 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup linux.redhat, in article
    , vaib wrote:

    NOTE: Posting from groups.google.com (or some web-forums) dramatically
    reduces the chance of your post being seen. Find a real news server.

    >> Using books from the LDP? Yes, that's a very good learning source,
    >> but you've also got to be _using_ the O/S. Nothing beats experience.

    >
    >yes i actually _do_ what i read from the books .


    That's good. Another source of inspiration is to read through the
    scripts that boot the system. Look in the file /etc/inittab to find
    where to start (there is a man page for inittab):

    ------------------------
    id:3:initdefault:

    # System initialization.
    si::sysinit:/etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit

    l3:3:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 3
    ------------------------

    On this system, the default run level is '3' (text login). So the first
    thing that runs is '/etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit'. After that is completed,
    it runs '/etc/rc.d/rc' with the argument '3'. The guys who wrote these
    scripts are 'good', and have great knowledge of scripting - they are
    showing off their skills. You can learn a lot of tricks that way.

    >there is no specific job that i am looking out for . i am not a GUI
    >guy . i want to be a command-line ( shell ) expert .


    It takes time, and experience to learn that. But there really is a
    little secret about the command line.

    [compton ~]$ ls `echo $PATH | tr ':' ' '` | egrep -v '(:|^$)' | wc -l
    1346
    [compton ~]$ echo $HISTSIZE
    1000
    [compton ~]$ history | cut -c7- | sed 's/ | / # /g' | tr '#' '\n' | sed
    's/^ *//' | cut -d' ' -f1 | sort -u | wc -l
    90
    [compton ~]$ find `echo $PATH | tr ':' ' '` -type f -atime -30 | wc -l
    180
    [compton ~]$ ^30^90
    find `echo $PATH | tr ':' ' '` -type f -atime -90 | wc -l
    320
    [compton ~]$

    First command looks at my $PATH, and counts all of the files. As a user
    on this system, there are 1346 "commands" in my PATH (as root, it's
    around 1650). Next line says that my shell remembers the last 1000
    times I've pressed the Enter key. The third line looks at those 1000
    entries, breaks them down into the individual commands, and then counts
    them. So, of 1346 commands in my PATH, I've used just 90 - over and
    over. The next command is interesting. The 'find' looks in my PATH and
    counts how many files (commands) I and everyone else on the system have
    used in the last 30 days. Only 180 of the 1346 got used. The last
    command is a substitution - replace the 30 in the previous command with
    90 - so the shell re-writes the command for me, and runs it.

    The point is that you don't need to learn every command on the system.
    Most people don't even know all of the commands, never mind use them.
    The magic of the command line is that you can take simple commands, and
    pipe them together to get results that would be impossible with a GUI,
    even if the application author thought you might need that capability.

    Old guy

  14. Re: Redhat certification

    Moe Trin wrote:

    > 1. Novell was teaching (and testing) in their "Network Technologies"
    > course that thick Ethernet used RG-8/U or RG-11/U. Two lies for the
    > price of one - RG-11 is 75 Ohm, not 50 Ohm as specified by DIX, and
    > both cables use a vinyl jacket material specifically prohibited by
    > the DIX spec (and virtually all fire inspectors / insurance companies).


    Ooohhh. I remember this. Explaining why we wanted plenum cable when you could
    buy cheap cables at the store has always been fun.

    > 2. Microsoft was teaching Class-ful networking (Class A, B, C) as the
    > ONLY size of networks, six YEARS after RFC1517 introduced CIDR
    >
    > 1517 Applicability Statement for the Implementation of Classless
    > Inter-Domain Routing (CIDR). Internet Engineering Steering Group, R.
    > Hinden. September 1993. (Format: TXT=7357 bytes) (Status: HISTORIC)


    I think that's because that's all that Active Directory really understands for
    configuration purposes.

    > None of our servers run X (heck, most don't even have video cards, being
    > admin'd over the wire, or through a remote serial console), so the GUI
    > stuff is generally useless. Despite the wishes of marketing departments
    > at the various O/S providers, we don't use a single distribution of
    > Linux - heck, we've also got Solaris and FreeBSD running here. A single
    > GUI knowledge is useless. Not only that, most of the systems lack a
    > removable media drive (floppy, CD, DVD), so booting to rescue media isn't
    > generally an option. Now 'peachpit' in server room 2 isn't responding,
    > and there is the beginnings of the mob (complete with burning torches
    > and pitchforks) forming in the hallway. How soon can you get that system
    > running?


    I certainly agree that knowledge of a single GUI is insufficient.

    If you can run VNC, you have access to GUI's. (It can take work to setup. I've
    done so.) If your servers have the built-in remote management of the better
    class of Dell or HP servers, there are also tools to make a remote CD on a
    management console available to the server for boot-time access, and there is
    PXE for rescue media, and USB sticks.

    There are also removable USB CD drives, especially DVD burners, if your BIOS
    and hardware support booting from it. I've had to deal with significant remote
    deployments. I've found these a real salvation for hardware that was ordered
    without bootable devices.

    It takes time and experience to learn about all this stuff, and how to get it
    to play together nicely. The workable solutions depend on BIOS configurations
    and features, so can be an adventure.

    >> But yes, resourcefulness is the one qualification that most are missing
    >> - they can not find information. That is usually the best thing to
    >> test in interviews!

    >
    > Some time ago, I was interviewing an applicant for student intern here
    > (we've an agreement with several local universities to provide a quarter
    > of "work experience" for certain disciplines), and the student mentioned
    > that she ran Linux (Mandrake or Red Hat - it was that long ago) at home.
    > "Oh boy", I thought - "another icon clicker". The position being
    > interviewed for was something like second or third assistant tape monkey
    > but we also have positions in the NOC. So I asked a couple of leading
    > questions that would expose this problem. To my surprise, she knew the
    > answers, including knowing to include the full path to commands like
    > /sbin/ifconfig. Two other supervisors asked no more that four or five
    > additional questions, and the student was hired as a NOC intern. At the
    > end of the quarter, she was also offered a job here, which she accepted.
    >
    > Old guy


    Good for her, and for you for noticing their knowledge. I've been consulting
    lately, and enjoy doing that at job interviews.


  15. Re: Redhat certification

    Johnny Rebel wrote:
    > Moe Trin wrote:
    >> On Fri, 18 Jul 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup linux.redhat, in article
    >> , Johnny Rebel wrote:
    >>
    >>> Moe Trin wrote:

    >>
    >>>> Johnny Rebel wrote:


    >>
    >>> I am over qualified for helpdesk, and probably would not be able to
    >>> get a job on one (I certainly wouldn't stay on one!)

    >>
    >> We only have one person in the barrel (it rotates through the department
    >> so you only are on the phone one day every other week), but the other
    >> staff are on call to handle things not fixable over the net. I'm senior
    >> enough to only get caught when things are really getting out of hand.

    >
    > - why do places do that to people... I have seen that where I
    > work, but as I am a consultant, I do the job I am paid to do. If they
    > included me in their rotation for HD work, I wouldn't be there.


    It's a serious education, and way to make sure your tools are working right. I
    encourage places to do it after some experience in a big company. Nothing
    makes a manager notice that the NOC chairs are awful and will damage people's
    hands on a long shift like having the company founder working in the NOC.
    (This happened to me in a NOC, where the staff was on a seminar and we systems
    engineers and some of the technical staff covered for them.)

    It also lets us know that, say, the NOC needs training in what it means when
    traceroute shows the connections cycling back and forth between 2 IP addresses
    after reaching an external gateway for a remote target. That's not a router
    loop, it's correct behavior for a failover configured ICMP blocked firewall,
    but I've repeatedly heard even a well-trained NOC worker misunderstand it. We
    do it for the same reason the manager goes and actually works in the kitchen
    and takes orders in a good restaurant.

  16. Re: Redhat certification

    On Sun, 20 Jul 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup linux.redhat, in article
    <48830824.1030609@gmail.com>, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >> both cables use a vinyl jacket material specifically prohibited by
    >> the DIX spec (and virtually all fire inspectors / insurance companies).

    >
    >Ooohhh. I remember this. Explaining why we wanted plenum cable when you
    >could buy cheap cables at the store has always been fun.


    And the price differential could be significant. The only catalog I have
    handy at the moment lists Belden 9880 (DIX spec) as $810/K, while some
    "RG-8/U" from NoName Industries is $560/K. But you see the same problem
    with Cat5 and Cat5e. We had a vendor bidding network cable install in a
    new building - the spec said plenum rated Cat5e. The idiot _sampled_ us
    some decent looking cable. He gets the job based on a price that's ~7%
    below the competition. LUCKILY, the state fire marshal's inspector
    happened to be on-site when the klown pulls up and starts unloading
    5k feet reels of some garbage, and he asks WTF. Unloading crew tells him
    to shove it. I think that was the wrong answer, probably because they
    didn't recognize the uniform. I didn't know it, but some fire inspectors
    do indeed have legal powers to arrest. Old vendor seems to have gone out
    of business, and his bonding company paid the next lowest bidder to
    complete the job to spec,

    >> 2. Microsoft was teaching Class-ful networking (Class A, B, C) as the
    >> ONLY size of networks, six YEARS after RFC1517 introduced CIDR


    >I think that's because that's all that Active Directory really
    >understands for configuration purposes.


    I dunno - that was an NT4 server class, and I know NT and even windoze
    for wankgroups could be set to non-class-ful masks.

    >> None of our servers run X (heck, most don't even have video cards, being
    >> admin'd over the wire, or through a remote serial console), so the GUI
    >> stuff is generally useless. Despite the wishes of marketing departments
    >> at the various O/S providers, we don't use a single distribution of
    >> Linux - heck, we've also got Solaris and FreeBSD running here.


    >I certainly agree that knowledge of a single GUI is insufficient.


    Plus, it's generally so limiting.

    >If you can run VNC, you have access to GUI's. (It can take work to
    >setup. I've done so.) If your servers have the built-in remote
    >management of the better class of Dell or HP servers, there are also
    >tools to make a remote CD on a management console available to the
    >server for boot-time access, and there is PXE for rescue media, and
    >USB sticks.


    echo "*** An error occurred during the file system check."
    echo "*** Dropping you to a shell; the system will reboot"
    echo "*** when you leave the shell."
    PS1="(Repair filesystem) \#"; export PS1
    sulogin

    >There are also removable USB CD drives, especially DVD burners, if your
    >BIOS and hardware support booting from it. I've had to deal with
    >significant remote deployments. I've found these a real salvation for
    >hardware that was ordered without bootable devices.


    Because of the rapid turnover in the workstation computers ("my
    secretary _needs_ a Quad Xeon with 4 Gigs of RAM to type my reports
    and check mail"), we get to recycle the better stuff into servers. This
    means yanking the super whizzy video and sound systems, replacing the
    original cheap disks with battleship grade disk systems, and installing
    a second NIC (for admin/backups). For installations and major
    maintenance, we usually have the systems in the shop, with covers off
    and such, and we have a number of CD drives we can temporarily install.
    If a line system goes down hard, it's faster to drop in a spare system,
    and bring the b0rken box into the shop.

    >> "Oh boy", I thought - "another icon clicker". The position being
    >> interviewed for was something like second or third assistant tape
    >> monkey but we also have positions in the NOC. So I asked a couple of
    >> leading questions that would expose this problem.


    >Good for her, and for you for noticing their knowledge. I've been
    >consulting lately, and enjoy doing that at job interviews.


    We have agreements with the university, as well as three "community" or
    "junior" colleges (I know this is North American corporate policy, and
    I think we also do this elsewhere) and the staff at the schools are
    usually pretty good about providing decent candidates. After their
    internship, we often wind up hiring a number of the ex-interns.

    Old guy

  17. Re: Redhat certification

    On Sun, 20 Jul 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup linux.redhat, in article
    , Johnny Rebel wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >> As for CIDR networking, the net mask here is a /22 so it would be
    >> desirable to know what it looks like if you're going to work here.

    >
    >Well, CIDR notation is not in full on use /yet/ - people still use the
    >classed notation more - I believe this to be a 'windoizm'. All network
    >diagrams I do are of course CIDR notation since it is easier to read.


    Looking at the delegated* files from AFRINIC, APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC and
    RIPE, the allocations and assignments of Class A, B, and C sized chunks
    is still marginally ahead of classless sized chunks (45502 classful vs.
    41771 classless as of five days ago), but part of that is because /24s
    are the most common (35367) delegation world wide.

    >> We only have one person in the barrel (it rotates through the
    >> department so you only are on the phone one day every other week),
    >> but the other staff are on call to handle things not fixable over
    >> the net. I'm senior enough to only get caught when things are really
    >> getting out of hand.

    >
    > - why do places do that to people... I have seen that where I
    >work, but as I am a consultant, I do the job I am paid to do. If they
    >included me in their rotation for HD work, I wouldn't be there.


    Not sure which point you are commenting about. Our helpdesk is a
    position that 1) solves problems over the phone/net if immediately
    possible, and 2) assigns the rest to individuals who will go to the
    computer in question, and do what is needed. There are people in each
    group/department who have root (actually 'sudo') and can do the quick
    and dirty stuff needed to get the users back to work. But they don't
    handle the servers or infrastructure, nor are they expected to handle
    hardware problems or spend more than 2-3 minutes trying. They all have
    "regular" jobs within their group/department, and 'front-line' duty is
    extra.

    As for me getting hands dirty when things get rough, our job is to see
    that the lusers have working computers and that includes the network
    end of things. If the hell-desk needs someone else to handle an urgent
    problem, I'm fair game, as are the two department secretaries (or if
    you feel an intern can do the job... guess what!). "Lead, Follow,
    or Get The Fsck out of the Way". This is the same reason about a tenth
    of our employees have have training in the use of fire extinguishers
    and CPR. It's not a part of their job, but if things go seriously wrong,
    they're better able to "Do The Right Thing(tm)" right now - even if the
    right thing is to get the hell out of there and scream for help.

    In his response, Nico makes the valid point of having the manager get
    involved - to make him/her better aware of problems. "The Powers That
    Be(tm)" used to decree that we'd have weekly problem-solving meetings
    with our group/department. That's been cut back to monthly (and I think
    everyone was happy when that happened), because they weren't as useful
    as having management get out of the office and into the trenches to see
    where the problems are.

    Old guy

  18. Re: Redhat certification

    Moe Trin wrote:
    > On Sun, 20 Jul 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup linux.redhat, in article
    > , Johnny Rebel wrote:
    >
    >> Moe Trin wrote:

    >
    >>> As for CIDR networking, the net mask here is a /22 so it would be
    >>> desirable to know what it looks like if you're going to work here.

    >> Well, CIDR notation is not in full on use /yet/ - people still use the
    >> classed notation more - I believe this to be a 'windoizm'. All network
    >> diagrams I do are of course CIDR notation since it is easier to read.

    >
    > Looking at the delegated* files from AFRINIC, APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC and
    > RIPE, the allocations and assignments of Class A, B, and C sized chunks
    > is still marginally ahead of classless sized chunks (45502 classful vs.
    > 41771 classless as of five days ago), but part of that is because /24s
    > are the most common (35367) delegation world wide.


    Interesting - I would have figured classed addressing would have still
    been way ahead.

    >
    >>> We only have one person in the barrel (it rotates through the
    >>> department so you only are on the phone one day every other week),
    >>> but the other staff are on call to handle things not fixable over
    >>> the net. I'm senior enough to only get caught when things are really
    >>> getting out of hand.

    >> - why do places do that to people... I have seen that where I
    >> work, but as I am a consultant, I do the job I am paid to do. If they
    >> included me in their rotation for HD work, I wouldn't be there.

    >
    > Not sure which point you are commenting about. Our helpdesk is a
    > position that 1) solves problems over the phone/net if immediately
    > possible, and 2) assigns the rest to individuals who will go to the
    > computer in question, and do what is needed. There are people in each
    > group/department who have root (actually 'sudo') and can do the quick
    > and dirty stuff needed to get the users back to work. But they don't
    > handle the servers or infrastructure, nor are they expected to handle
    > hardware problems or spend more than 2-3 minutes trying. They all have
    > "regular" jobs within their group/department, and 'front-line' duty is
    > extra.


    I was responding to the 'rotating people in' to the Helpdesk. If that
    happened to me, I would quit, plain and simple. I am an SA, not a
    helpdesk person. It is like telling a brain surgeon to fix broken arms,
    it just shouldn't be done.

    >
    > As for me getting hands dirty when things get rough, our job is to see
    > that the lusers have working computers and that includes the network
    > end of things. If the hell-desk needs someone else to handle an urgent
    > problem, I'm fair game, as are the two department secretaries (or if
    > you feel an intern can do the job... guess what!). "Lead, Follow,
    > or Get The Fsck out of the Way". This is the same reason about a tenth
    > of our employees have have training in the use of fire extinguishers
    > and CPR. It's not a part of their job, but if things go seriously wrong,
    > they're better able to "Do The Right Thing(tm)" right now - even if the
    > right thing is to get the hell out of there and scream for help.
    >
    > In his response, Nico makes the valid point of having the manager get
    > involved - to make him/her better aware of problems. "The Powers That
    > Be(tm)" used to decree that we'd have weekly problem-solving meetings
    > with our group/department. That's been cut back to monthly (and I think
    > everyone was happy when that happened), because they weren't as useful
    > as having management get out of the office and into the trenches to see
    > where the problems are.


    Sure, but if you have a *good* manager, they are approachable and will
    listen to what their people say. If a manager is not aware of any
    problems - I would suspect the people below them are doing their jobs.
    It is more up to employees to make sure management knows what the issues
    are, that is part of what being a good employee is. A good employee
    does not follow blindly or keep their mouth shut when they have a
    problem. A good manager can not be expected to know everything going on
    below - but, if it is a good manager, they will find and effective way
    to deal with an issue. Managers should stay out of the trenches in a
    technical environment. Typically, from what I have seen, managers in
    the trenches try to be one of the 'techies' and fit in - but by proxy
    then tend to micro-manage, which drives everyone nuts.

    JR.

    JR.

    >
    > Old guy



    --

    Bill will have to take Linux from my cold, dead flippers.

    -Tux.

  19. Re: Redhat certification

    Moe Trin wrote:
    > On Sun, 20 Jul 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup linux.redhat, in article
    > <48830824.1030609@gmail.com>, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:


    >> There are also removable USB CD drives, especially DVD burners, if your
    >> BIOS and hardware support booting from it. I've had to deal with
    >> significant remote deployments. I've found these a real salvation for
    >> hardware that was ordered without bootable devices.

    >
    > Because of the rapid turnover in the workstation computers ("my
    > secretary _needs_ a Quad Xeon with 4 Gigs of RAM to type my reports
    > and check mail"), we get to recycle the better stuff into servers. This
    > means yanking the super whizzy video and sound systems, replacing the
    > original cheap disks with battleship grade disk systems, and installing
    > a second NIC (for admin/backups). For installations and major
    > maintenance, we usually have the systems in the shop, with covers off
    > and such, and we have a number of CD drives we can temporarily install.
    > If a line system goes down hard, it's faster to drop in a spare system,
    > and bring the b0rken box into the shop.


    Ahh. You're in one facility, not scattered around a county or a country. I
    *wish* I could work in such a tight facility again.

    I do like keeping a spare external USB DVD drive around: they're handy at odd
    moments, such as duplicating bootable media or using it on a system with one
    of those 'covers' on it that blocks the CD drive from opening.

  20. Managers in the NOC, was Re: Redhat certification

    Johnny Rebel wrote:
    > I was responding to the 'rotating people in' to the Helpdesk. If that
    > happened to me, I would quit, plain and simple. I am an SA, not a
    > helpdesk person. It is like telling a brain surgeon to fix broken arms,
    > it just shouldn't be done.


    That was me. In a decent sized systems group, it's helpful to designate one
    person the 'on-call' person, who handles all the incoming requests and passes
    them along as needed. It's massively helpful for cross-training, and it lets
    folks know where the bottlenecks that drive the users, or the helpdesk
    personnel, nuts and need attention.

    It's also massively helpful for the systems administrators, who can use what
    happens on that workshift to tell their managers "do one cares about the funky
    beautiful printer setups, because they don't use it".

    > Sure, but if you have a *good* manager, they are approachable and will
    > listen to what their people say. If a manager is not aware of any
    > problems - I would suspect the people below them are doing their jobs.
    > It is more up to employees to make sure management knows what the issues
    > are, that is part of what being a good employee is. A good employee
    > does not follow blindly or keep their mouth shut when they have a
    > problem. A good manager can not be expected to know everything going on
    > below - but, if it is a good manager, they will find and effective way
    > to deal with an issue. Managers should stay out of the trenches in a
    > technical environment. Typically, from what I have seen, managers in
    > the trenches try to be one of the 'techies' and fit in - but by proxy
    > then tend to micro-manage, which drives everyone nuts.


    I'm saying 'occasional' visits to the trenches. Drawing Gant charts and
    laborflows and org charts is useful, but sometimes it helps to get out there
    and feel what your support personnel are going through.

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