install fedora linux - Redhat

This is a discussion on install fedora linux - Redhat ; chrisv wrote: > Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: > >> The Ghost In The Machine wrote: >> >>> Oh, the horror. Vista obviously plans to wipe out LILO and GRUB! :-) >>> >>> Can't be too careful with those non-NTLDR affairs, I ...

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Thread: install fedora linux

  1. Trusted Computing, was Re: install fedora linux

    chrisv wrote:
    > Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
    >
    >> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>
    >>> Oh, the horror. Vista obviously plans to wipe out LILO and GRUB! :-)
    >>>
    >>> Can't be too careful with those non-NTLDR affairs, I guess.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Don't laugh. Take a good look at the 'Palladium' DRM tools, which have
    >> been renamed to 'Trusted Computing'.

    >
    > Years-old stuff that has been dropped, AFAIK...


    No, "Trusted Computing" is still proceeding. It's apparently not incorporated
    commonly into Intel CPU's yet, but it's certainly a default hardware chipset
    on a number of modern laptops and desktips.

    >> The tools clearly have the capacity
    >> to lock the boot loader so that only authorized software can replace it,
    >> and to check the authorization for the bootloader in the BIOS and
    >> prevent access to any media without the designated boot loader.
    >>
    >> It's really scary stuff.

    >
    > Never turn your back on M$. You just might get a knife.


    And this one is being done slowly, hoping we don't notice.

  2. Re: install fedora linux

    In article <4840FB92.9000509@gmail.com>,
    Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
    > Don't laugh. Take a good look at the 'Palladium' DRM tools, which have been
    > renamed to 'Trusted Computing'. The tools clearly have the capacity to lock
    > the boot loader so that only authorized software can replace it, and to check
    > the authorization for the bootloader in the BIOS and prevent access to any
    > media without the designated boot loader.
    >
    > It's really scary stuff.


    Nice FUD. Here are the facts:




    --
    --Tim Smith

  3. Re: install fedora linux

    In article <4840FB92.9000509@gmail.com>,
    Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
    > Don't laugh. Take a good look at the 'Palladium' DRM tools, which have been
    > renamed to 'Trusted Computing'. The tools clearly have the capacity to lock
    > the boot loader so that only authorized software can replace it, and to check
    > the authorization for the bootloader in the BIOS and prevent access to any
    > media without the designated boot loader.
    >
    > It's really scary stuff.


    Nice FUD. Here are the facts:




    --
    --Tim Smith

  4. Re: install fedora linux

    On 2008-05-30, Angelocracy.com wrote:
    > i have been using fedora for a long time, but only on old computers. I
    > would just delete everything and install linux.
    >
    > This will be my frist new computer, I want to have both systems on
    > it. Will there be any problems, I read somewhere there was problems
    > installing linux on a computer with vista.


    This is just silly.

    Installing is easy. Peaceful co-existence might be another matter.
    That's something that's in the hands of Microsoft.

    Run some sort of LiveCD on the system and see what happens.

    >
    > HP Pavilion dv6700t Entertainment
    > - Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
    > - Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo Processor T5550 (1.83GHz)
    > - 15.4" diagonal WXGA High-Definition HP BrightView Widescreen Display
    > (1280 x 800)
    > - 4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
    > - Intel(R) Graphics Media Accelerator X3100 - For Core 2 Duo
    > Processors
    > - HP Imprint Finish (Radiance) + Fingerprint Reader + Webcam +
    > Microphone
    > - Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 4965AGN Network Connection
    > - 160GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive!
    > - SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-R/RW with Double Layer Support
    > - HP ExpressCard Digital/Analog TV Tuner
    > - 12 Cell Lithium Ion Battery



    --
    If you are going to judge Linux based on how easy
    it is to get onto a Macintosh. Let's try installing |||
    MacOS X on a DELL! / | \

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  5. Re: install fedora linux

    On 2008-05-30, Angelocracy.com wrote:
    > i have been using fedora for a long time, but only on old computers. I
    > would just delete everything and install linux.
    >
    > This will be my frist new computer, I want to have both systems on
    > it. Will there be any problems, I read somewhere there was problems
    > installing linux on a computer with vista.


    This is just silly.

    Installing is easy. Peaceful co-existence might be another matter.
    That's something that's in the hands of Microsoft.

    Run some sort of LiveCD on the system and see what happens.

    >
    > HP Pavilion dv6700t Entertainment
    > - Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
    > - Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo Processor T5550 (1.83GHz)
    > - 15.4" diagonal WXGA High-Definition HP BrightView Widescreen Display
    > (1280 x 800)
    > - 4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
    > - Intel(R) Graphics Media Accelerator X3100 - For Core 2 Duo
    > Processors
    > - HP Imprint Finish (Radiance) + Fingerprint Reader + Webcam +
    > Microphone
    > - Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 4965AGN Network Connection
    > - 160GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive!
    > - SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-R/RW with Double Layer Support
    > - HP ExpressCard Digital/Analog TV Tuner
    > - 12 Cell Lithium Ion Battery



    --
    If you are going to judge Linux based on how easy
    it is to get onto a Macintosh. Let's try installing |||
    MacOS X on a DELL! / | \

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  6. Re: install fedora linux

    Angelocracy.com wrote:
    > i have been using fedora for a long time, but only on old computers. I
    > would just delete everything and install linux.
    > This will be my frist new computer, I want to have both systems on
    > it. Will there be any problems, I read somewhere there was problems
    > installing linux on a computer with vista.


    Certainly MS will make it as difficult as possible for anything else to
    reside on the HD but I haven't heard of any new trick to make it harder. If
    you have to restore Vista after linux has been installed it will erase the
    boot record which allows you to choose between the two.

    Also the newer the laptop the more likely linux does have all the latest
    tricks the makers used so don't expect miracles. As soon as possible after
    installation yum -y upgrade to get all the latest.

    --
    God bless America -- or else!
    -- The Iron Webmaster, 4012
    http://www.haaretz.com What is Israel really like? http://www.jpost.com a7

  7. Re: install fedora linux

    Angelocracy.com wrote:
    > i have been using fedora for a long time, but only on old computers. I
    > would just delete everything and install linux.
    > This will be my frist new computer, I want to have both systems on
    > it. Will there be any problems, I read somewhere there was problems
    > installing linux on a computer with vista.


    Certainly MS will make it as difficult as possible for anything else to
    reside on the HD but I haven't heard of any new trick to make it harder. If
    you have to restore Vista after linux has been installed it will erase the
    boot record which allows you to choose between the two.

    Also the newer the laptop the more likely linux does have all the latest
    tricks the makers used so don't expect miracles. As soon as possible after
    installation yum -y upgrade to get all the latest.

    --
    God bless America -- or else!
    -- The Iron Webmaster, 4012
    http://www.haaretz.com What is Israel really like? http://www.jpost.com a7

  8. Re: Trusted Computing, was Re: install fedora linux

    Tim Smith wrote:
    > In article <4840FB92.9000509@gmail.com>,
    > Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
    >> Don't laugh. Take a good look at the 'Palladium' DRM tools, which have been
    >> renamed to 'Trusted Computing'. The tools clearly have the capacity to lock
    >> the boot loader so that only authorized software can replace it, and to check
    >> the authorization for the bootloader in the BIOS and prevent access to any
    >> media without the designated boot loader.
    >>
    >> It's really scary stuff.

    >
    > Nice FUD. Here are the facts:
    >
    >


    Oh, look. Several year old whitepapers, describing how the technology can be
    accessed by Linux. That's fine: a software emulation is reasonable for some
    uses, and the whitepapers seem accurate.

    The problem is that they're not discussing the potential misues: the ability
    to lock hardware and software capabilities to specific, vendor-owned keys, and
    the key registration process through Microsoft's key vault.

    Let's take an example, on page 8 of
    http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/research_projects.nsf/pages/gsal.TCG.html/$FILE/TCFL-TPM_intro.pdf,
    the use of fingerprint sensors. When you look at
    http://www.deeperwants.com/cul1/home...es/000048.html, or
    look for the keywords 'gummie fingerprint'. Similarly, take a look at the Boot
    management, at page 9.

    Do you really believe that it's not likely for motherboard and BIOS
    manufacturers to cooperate with system manufacturers to provide master boot
    record management through Palladium, thus locking their motherboard to vendor
    authorized operating systems and doing a hardware lock-in to their supported
    configurations? Or similar management of DVD writers and USB thumb drives?
    Because that's part of the *point* of this kind of technology. There are
    legitimate security uses for it it, but its priary use is and will be DRM for
    quite a long time to come.

    Or let's take a look at another strawman argument paper, I mean whitepaper,
    http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/research_projects.nsf/pages/gsal.TCG.html/$FILE/tcpa_rebuttal.pdf.
    And let's start with the first claim., that other papers "improperly lump
    together TCPA, Palladium, and DRM". I was at Brian LaMacchia's presentation at
    MIT on this, and the DRM intent was obvious to the audience, especially with
    Microsoft key management which the IBM whitepapers failed to mention.

    Then go read http://magazine.digitalidworld.com/Nov03/Page24.pdf, which
    describes the key management infrastructure that Microsoft wants. Centralized,
    with a private authority (Microsoft) managing the nexus keys, the keys allowed
    to access everything or allowed to register software updates, are vulnerable
    to Patriot Act subpoenas. And once those keys have left the building, the game
    is over for genuine personal security. Now, this is admittedly a Palladium
    issue, not one inherent in the Trusted Computing chipsets. But as the largest
    OS vendor with the largest libraries of available software, Microsoft is a
    guiding force in 'Trusted Computing'.

  9. Re: Trusted Computing, was Re: install fedora linux

    Tim Smith wrote:
    > In article <4840FB92.9000509@gmail.com>,
    > Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
    >> Don't laugh. Take a good look at the 'Palladium' DRM tools, which have been
    >> renamed to 'Trusted Computing'. The tools clearly have the capacity to lock
    >> the boot loader so that only authorized software can replace it, and to check
    >> the authorization for the bootloader in the BIOS and prevent access to any
    >> media without the designated boot loader.
    >>
    >> It's really scary stuff.

    >
    > Nice FUD. Here are the facts:
    >
    >


    Oh, look. Several year old whitepapers, describing how the technology can be
    accessed by Linux. That's fine: a software emulation is reasonable for some
    uses, and the whitepapers seem accurate.

    The problem is that they're not discussing the potential misues: the ability
    to lock hardware and software capabilities to specific, vendor-owned keys, and
    the key registration process through Microsoft's key vault.

    Let's take an example, on page 8 of
    http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/research_projects.nsf/pages/gsal.TCG.html/$FILE/TCFL-TPM_intro.pdf,
    the use of fingerprint sensors. When you look at
    http://www.deeperwants.com/cul1/home...es/000048.html, or
    look for the keywords 'gummie fingerprint'. Similarly, take a look at the Boot
    management, at page 9.

    Do you really believe that it's not likely for motherboard and BIOS
    manufacturers to cooperate with system manufacturers to provide master boot
    record management through Palladium, thus locking their motherboard to vendor
    authorized operating systems and doing a hardware lock-in to their supported
    configurations? Or similar management of DVD writers and USB thumb drives?
    Because that's part of the *point* of this kind of technology. There are
    legitimate security uses for it it, but its priary use is and will be DRM for
    quite a long time to come.

    Or let's take a look at another strawman argument paper, I mean whitepaper,
    http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/research_projects.nsf/pages/gsal.TCG.html/$FILE/tcpa_rebuttal.pdf.
    And let's start with the first claim., that other papers "improperly lump
    together TCPA, Palladium, and DRM". I was at Brian LaMacchia's presentation at
    MIT on this, and the DRM intent was obvious to the audience, especially with
    Microsoft key management which the IBM whitepapers failed to mention.

    Then go read http://magazine.digitalidworld.com/Nov03/Page24.pdf, which
    describes the key management infrastructure that Microsoft wants. Centralized,
    with a private authority (Microsoft) managing the nexus keys, the keys allowed
    to access everything or allowed to register software updates, are vulnerable
    to Patriot Act subpoenas. And once those keys have left the building, the game
    is over for genuine personal security. Now, this is admittedly a Palladium
    issue, not one inherent in the Trusted Computing chipsets. But as the largest
    OS vendor with the largest libraries of available software, Microsoft is a
    guiding force in 'Trusted Computing'.

  10. Re: install fedora linux

    Matt Giwer wrote:
    > Angelocracy.com wrote:
    >> i have been using fedora for a long time, but only on old computers. I
    >> would just delete everything and install linux.
    >> This will be my frist new computer, I want to have both systems on
    >> it. Will there be any problems, I read somewhere there was problems
    >> installing linux on a computer with vista.

    >
    > Certainly MS will make it as difficult as possible for anything else
    > to reside on the HD but I haven't heard of any new trick to make it
    > harder. If you have to restore Vista after linux has been installed it
    > will erase the boot record which allows you to choose between the two.
    >
    > Also the newer the laptop the more likely linux does NOT NOT NOT have all the
    > latest tricks the makers used so don't expect miracles. As soon as
    > possible after installation yum -y upgrade to get all the latest.
    >



    --
    Dual citizenship is the gateway to treason.
    -- The Iron Webmaster, 4014
    http://www.giwersworld.org/disinfo/occupied-2.phtml a6

  11. Re: install fedora linux

    Matt Giwer wrote:
    > Angelocracy.com wrote:
    >> i have been using fedora for a long time, but only on old computers. I
    >> would just delete everything and install linux.
    >> This will be my frist new computer, I want to have both systems on
    >> it. Will there be any problems, I read somewhere there was problems
    >> installing linux on a computer with vista.

    >
    > Certainly MS will make it as difficult as possible for anything else
    > to reside on the HD but I haven't heard of any new trick to make it
    > harder. If you have to restore Vista after linux has been installed it
    > will erase the boot record which allows you to choose between the two.
    >
    > Also the newer the laptop the more likely linux does NOT NOT NOT have all the
    > latest tricks the makers used so don't expect miracles. As soon as
    > possible after installation yum -y upgrade to get all the latest.
    >



    --
    Dual citizenship is the gateway to treason.
    -- The Iron Webmaster, 4014
    http://www.giwersworld.org/disinfo/occupied-2.phtml a6

  12. Re: Trusted Computing, was Re: install fedora linux

    Le Sat, 31 May 2008 12:53:06 +0100, Nico Kadel-Garcia a √©crit¬*:

    > chrisv wrote:
    >
    > No, "Trusted Computing" is still proceeding. It's apparently not
    > incorporated commonly into Intel CPU's yet, but it's certainly a default
    > hardware chipset on a number of modern laptops and desktips.
    >


    On my new motherboard Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H there is a TPM
    (Trusted Platform Module Header).
    Is that what you are talking about or something similar?

    --
    Barack Obama for President http://www.barackobama.com/
    http://home.comcast.net/~mcatudal
    We are the Cybernetic Entomology Experts

  13. Re: Trusted Computing, was Re: install fedora linux

    Le Sat, 31 May 2008 12:53:06 +0100, Nico Kadel-Garcia a √©crit¬*:

    > chrisv wrote:
    >
    > No, "Trusted Computing" is still proceeding. It's apparently not
    > incorporated commonly into Intel CPU's yet, but it's certainly a default
    > hardware chipset on a number of modern laptops and desktips.
    >


    On my new motherboard Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H there is a TPM
    (Trusted Platform Module Header).
    Is that what you are talking about or something similar?

    --
    Barack Obama for President http://www.barackobama.com/
    http://home.comcast.net/~mcatudal
    We are the Cybernetic Entomology Experts

  14. Re: Trusted Computing, was Re: install fedora linux

    Michel Catudal wrote:
    > Le Sat, 31 May 2008 12:53:06 +0100, Nico Kadel-Garcia a écrit :
    >
    >> chrisv wrote:
    >>
    >> No, "Trusted Computing" is still proceeding. It's apparently not
    >> incorporated commonly into Intel CPU's yet, but it's certainly a default
    >> hardware chipset on a number of modern laptops and desktips.
    >>

    >
    > On my new motherboard Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H there is a TPM
    > (Trusted Platform Module Header).
    > Is that what you are talking about or something similar?
    >


    That board apparently has a slot to plug such a module into. But yes, that's it.

  15. Re: Trusted Computing, was Re: install fedora linux

    Michel Catudal wrote:
    > Le Sat, 31 May 2008 12:53:06 +0100, Nico Kadel-Garcia a écrit :
    >
    >> chrisv wrote:
    >>
    >> No, "Trusted Computing" is still proceeding. It's apparently not
    >> incorporated commonly into Intel CPU's yet, but it's certainly a default
    >> hardware chipset on a number of modern laptops and desktips.
    >>

    >
    > On my new motherboard Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H there is a TPM
    > (Trusted Platform Module Header).
    > Is that what you are talking about or something similar?
    >


    That board apparently has a slot to plug such a module into. But yes, that's it.

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