Can't "telnet mail-host 25" - Redhat

This is a discussion on Can't "telnet mail-host 25" - Redhat ; Hi, I am running linux 8.? standard distribution. I noticed that I can't do "telnet server-host port" for a lot of ports, even though the server to serve the port is running in server-host. For example, when I have sendmail/smtp ...

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Thread: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

  1. Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    Hi,

    I am running linux 8.? standard distribution. I noticed that I can't do
    "telnet server-host port" for a lot of ports, even though the server to
    serve the port is running in server-host. For example, when I have
    sendmail/smtp running on host mail-host(47.17.17.50), a "telnet
    mail-host 25" from another linux/unix failed with message:

    "Trying 47.17.170.50...
    telnet: connect to address 47.17.170.50: Connection refused".

    I can do this to port 21 (ftp) and 23 (telnet) once I make the proper
    change to xinet.d config files, but I just can't make port 25 work.

    The question: it this failure caused by TCP wrapper (the host to and
    from allow each other), xinetd config, or PAM? Or something else? How to
    fix this problem?

    Thanks.

    -- Karl


  2. Re: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    Xiangrong Cai wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I am running linux 8.? standard distribution. I noticed that I can't do
    > "telnet server-host port" for a lot of ports, even though the server to
    > serve the port is running in server-host. For example, when I have
    > sendmail/smtp running on host mail-host(47.17.17.50), a "telnet
    > mail-host 25" from another linux/unix failed with message:
    >
    > "Trying 47.17.170.50...
    > telnet: connect to address 47.17.170.50: Connection refused".
    >
    > I can do this to port 21 (ftp) and 23 (telnet) once I make the proper
    > change to xinet.d config files, but I just can't make port 25 work.
    >
    > The question: it this failure caused by TCP wrapper (the host to and
    > from allow each other), xinetd config, or PAM? Or something else? How to
    > fix this problem?
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > -- Karl
    >


    I'd check the firewall....

    Good luck!


  3. Re: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    Splatter wrote:
    > Xiangrong Cai wrote:
    >
    >>Hi,
    >>
    >>I am running linux 8.? standard distribution. I noticed that I can't do
    >>"telnet server-host port" for a lot of ports, even though the server to
    >>serve the port is running in server-host. For example, when I have
    >>sendmail/smtp running on host mail-host(47.17.17.50), a "telnet
    >>mail-host 25" from another linux/unix failed with message:
    >>
    >>"Trying 47.17.170.50...
    >>telnet: connect to address 47.17.170.50: Connection refused".
    >>
    >>I can do this to port 21 (ftp) and 23 (telnet) once I make the proper
    >>change to xinet.d config files, but I just can't make port 25 work.
    >>
    >>The question: it this failure caused by TCP wrapper (the host to and
    >>from allow each other), xinetd config, or PAM? Or something else? How to
    >>fix this problem?
    >>
    >>Thanks.
    >>
    >>-- Karl
    >>

    >
    >
    > I'd check the firewall....
    >
    > Good luck!
    >


    Thanks for the response. However, I don't think there is firewall
    involved. I am doing the test within the same intranet. Actually, the
    two machines (47.17.170.50 and 47.17.170.28) are in the same subnet
    (connected with a switch). Also, if it is because the firewall, then
    port 21 and 23 should be blocked also.

    One more piece of info: telnet localhost 25 works in host 50, but telnet
    47.17.170.50 25 from host 28 doesn't work.

    -- Karl


  4. Re: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:18:51 -0500, Xiangrong Cai wrote:

    > Splatter wrote:
    >> Xiangrong Cai wrote:
    >>>
    >>>I am running linux 8.? standard distribution. I noticed that I can't do
    >>>"telnet server-host port" for a lot of ports, even though the server to
    >>>serve the port is running in server-host. For example, when I have
    >>>sendmail/smtp running on host mail-host(47.17.17.50), a "telnet
    >>>mail-host 25" from another linux/unix failed with message:
    >>>
    >>>"Trying 47.17.170.50...
    >>>telnet: connect to address 47.17.170.50: Connection refused".
    >>>
    >>>I can do this to port 21 (ftp) and 23 (telnet) once I make the proper
    >>>change to xinet.d config files, but I just can't make port 25 work.
    >>>
    >>>The question: it this failure caused by TCP wrapper (the host to and
    >>>from allow each other), xinetd config, or PAM? Or something else? How to
    >>>fix this problem?
    >>>

    >> I'd check the firewall....

    >
    > Thanks for the response. However, I don't think there is firewall
    > involved.


    You wouldn't get "Connection refused" if there was. That's a response from
    the server. If it was a firewall issue you'd get nothing... and eventually
    a timeout.

    > One more piece of info: telnet localhost 25 works in host 50, but telnet
    > 47.17.170.50 25 from host 28 doesn't work.


    Are you sure a pop/imap server is running? If the port is open but nothing
    servicing it you will get a connection refused message.

    --
    The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.


  5. Re: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:31:23 -0500, Xiangrong Cai wrote this:

    > Hi,
    >
    > I am running linux 8.? standard distribution. I noticed that I can't do
    > "telnet server-host port" for a lot of ports, even though the server to
    > serve the port is running in server-host. For example, when I have
    > sendmail/smtp running on host mail-host(47.17.17.50), a "telnet mail-host
    > 25" from another linux/unix failed with message:
    >
    > "Trying 47.17.170.50...
    > telnet: connect to address 47.17.170.50: Connection refused".
    >


    telnet -l user 47.17.170.50 25 ?

    Anything in /var/log/messages /var/log/secure ?

    > I can do this to port 21 (ftp) and 23 (telnet) once I make the proper
    > change to xinet.d config files, but I just can't make port 25 work.
    >
    > The question: it this failure caused by TCP wrapper (the host to and from
    > allow each other), xinetd config, or PAM? Or something else? How to fix
    > this problem?
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > -- Karl



  6. Re: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Xiangrong Cai wrote:
    > I am running linux 8.? standard distribution. I noticed that I
    > can't do "telnet server-host port" for a lot of ports, even
    > though the server to serve the port is running in server-host.
    > For example, when I have sendmail/smtp running on host
    > mail-host(47.17.17.50), a "telnet mail-host 25" from another
    > linux/unix failed with message:
    > "Trying 47.17.170.50...
    > telnet: connect to address 47.17.170.50: Connection refused".


    Are you sure the server program actually up and accepting
    connection at that interface? Use ps and netstat to make sure.

    Are you sure there is no firewall? Try iptables -L and see what
    come out.

    Some program use the hosts_access control files,
    /etc/hosts.allow and /etc/hosts.deny
    take a look what's in the file, as well.

    --
    (Stephan Paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo
    _____ _____ _____ _____
    /____ /____/ /____/ /____
    _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/

  7. Re: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    Ivan Marsh wrote:
    > On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:18:51 -0500, Xiangrong Cai wrote:
    >
    >>Splatter wrote:
    >>
    >>>Xiangrong Cai wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>I am running linux 8.? standard distribution. I noticed that I can't do
    >>>>"telnet server-host port" for a lot of ports, even though the server to
    >>>>serve the port is running in server-host. For example, when I have
    >>>>sendmail/smtp running on host mail-host(47.17.17.50), a "telnet
    >>>>mail-host 25" from another linux/unix failed with message:
    >>>>
    >>>>"Trying 47.17.170.50...
    >>>>telnet: connect to address 47.17.170.50: Connection refused".
    >>>>
    >>>>I can do this to port 21 (ftp) and 23 (telnet) once I make the proper
    >>>>change to xinet.d config files, but I just can't make port 25 work.
    >>>>
    >>>>The question: it this failure caused by TCP wrapper (the host to and
    >>>
    >>>>from allow each other), xinetd config, or PAM? Or something else? How to
    >>>
    >>>>fix this problem?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>I'd check the firewall....

    >>
    >>Thanks for the response. However, I don't think there is firewall
    >>involved.

    >
    >
    > You wouldn't get "Connection refused" if there was. That's a response from
    > the server. If it was a firewall issue you'd get nothing... and eventually
    > a timeout.
    >
    >
    >>One more piece of info: telnet localhost 25 works in host 50, but telnet
    >> 47.17.170.50 25 from host 28 doesn't work.

    >
    >
    > Are you sure a pop/imap server is running? If the port is open but nothing
    > servicing it you will get a connection refused message.
    >


    sendmail is running and I think it serves port 25. Actually, when doing "telnet
    localhost 25", I can use the SMTP commands like helo, mail from, rcpt to, data,
    etc to send an email.

    113% ps -ef | grep sendmail
    root 1629 1 0 Nov21 ? 00:00:00 sendmail: accepting connections
    smmsp 1638 1 0 Nov21 ? 00:00:00 sendmail: Queue runner@01:00:00
    kcai 20214 3395 0 13:42 pts/9 00:00:00 grep sendmail

    87% (using sudo) iptables -L
    Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT)
    target prot opt source destination

    Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT)
    target prot opt source destination

    Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT)
    target prot opt source destination


    When the host is solaris2.5.1, with similar setting (i.e., sendmail is running),
    I can do both "telnet localhost 25" from local machine and "telnet solaris-host
    25" from another machine, Linux or Solaris.

    When doing ethereal, these are the two tcp packet exchanges (from 50 "telnet
    xx.28 25, where xx.28 is running the sendmail):

    50->28: tcp 34672 -> smtp [SYN] Seq=0 Ack=0 Win=5840 Len=0 ...
    28->50: tcp [TCP ZeroWindow] smtp -> 34672 [RST, ACK] Seq=0 Ack=0, Win=0 Len=0

    So it seems the [TCP ZeroWindow] resets the TCP connection. From the web, it
    shows that [TCP ZeroWindow] normally means that there is no network buffer. But
    obviously this is not true, since I can do several other tcp connections [like
    telnet, ssh, ftp] without a problem. So the question is: Who set the [TCP
    ZeroWindow] in this case? I don't think it is the Linux Kernel. Must be some
    application like tcp warpper, xinetd, pam, or something.

    As I mentioned earlier, there is no firewall involved. hosts.allow and
    hosts.deny are setting OK [telnet and ftp work fine], and there is no related
    messages shown in the /var/log/messages and /var/log/secure. That's why I send
    the email to this newsgroup in the first place. It is just confusing to me :-).
    All I can think about is tcpwrapper (hosts.allow and hosts.deny), xinetd, and
    pam. But it seems none of them is sending the refusing message.


  8. Re: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:14:22 -0500, Xiangrong Cai wrote:

    > Ivan Marsh wrote:


    >> Are you sure a pop/imap server is running? If the port is open but
    >> nothing servicing it you will get a connection refused message.

    >
    > sendmail is running and I think it serves port 25. Actually, when doing
    > "telnet localhost 25", I can use the SMTP commands like helo, mail from,
    > rcpt to, data, etc to send an email.


    sendmail is an MTA (mail transfer agent) not a pop/imap daemon. You need
    dovecot or qpopper or something like that running in addition to sendmail.

    --
    The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.


  9. Re: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    Yes, you are right. I did nmap to both the linux host 28 and solaris host 75.
    Linux host doesn't show port 25, while solaris host 75 shows the port 25 is open.

    That question being answered, I still have one more question: what is the
    difference between "telnet localhost 25" from localhost and "telnet 47.17.170.28
    25" from a remote host? Why in the first form, somebody (I think it is sendmail)
    serves the port 25, while in the second form, nobody servers port 25?

    Ivan Marsh wrote:
    > On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:14:22 -0500, Xiangrong Cai wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Ivan Marsh wrote:

    >
    >
    >>>Are you sure a pop/imap server is running? If the port is open but
    >>>nothing servicing it you will get a connection refused message.

    >>
    >>sendmail is running and I think it serves port 25. Actually, when doing
    >>"telnet localhost 25", I can use the SMTP commands like helo, mail from,
    >>rcpt to, data, etc to send an email.

    >
    >
    > sendmail is an MTA (mail transfer agent) not a pop/imap daemon. You need
    > dovecot or qpopper or something like that running in addition to sendmail.
    >



  10. Re: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    Hi
    Are you tried with the netstat command?
    # netstat -na | grep LISTEN
    You have to find the row that means the port 25 in listening.
    But, if you want that smtp server accept connection by other servers, the
    port 25 must to be listening for ALL interface!
    So...
    you have to see 0.0.0.0:25
    and NOT 127.0.0.1:25

    Box

    PS
    please, forgive my english!!!


    "Xiangrong Cai" ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:dmlar1$9vt$1@zcars129.ca.nortel.com...
    > Yes, you are right. I did nmap to both the linux host 28 and solaris host
    > 75. Linux host doesn't show port 25, while solaris host 75 shows the port
    > 25 is open.
    >
    > That question being answered, I still have one more question: what is the
    > difference between "telnet localhost 25" from localhost and "telnet
    > 47.17.170.28 25" from a remote host? Why in the first form, somebody (I
    > think it is sendmail) serves the port 25, while in the second form, nobody
    > servers port 25?
    >




  11. Re: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    > Ivan Marsh wrote:
    >> On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:14:22 -0500, Xiangrong Cai wrote:
    >>
    >>>>Are you sure a pop/imap server is running? If the port is open but
    >>>>nothing servicing it you will get a connection refused message.
    >>>
    >>>sendmail is running and I think it serves port 25. Actually, when doing
    >>>"telnet localhost 25", I can use the SMTP commands like helo, mail
    >>>from, rcpt to, data, etc to send an email.

    >>
    >>
    >> sendmail is an MTA (mail transfer agent) not a pop/imap daemon. You
    >> need dovecot or qpopper or something like that running in addition to
    >> sendmail


    On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:58:41 -0500, Xiangrong Cai wrote:

    > Yes, you are right. I did nmap to both the linux host 28 and solaris
    > host 75. Linux host doesn't show port 25, while solaris host 75 shows
    > the port 25 is open.
    >
    > That question being answered, I still have one more question: what is
    > the difference between "telnet localhost 25" from localhost and "telnet
    > 47.17.170.28 25" from a remote host? Why in the first form, somebody (I
    > think it is sendmail) serves the port 25, while in the second form,
    > nobody servers port 25?


    Localhost never hits your network adapter. It's a virtual device. I'm not
    sure why that makes any difference in your case but I suppose it could
    where sendmail is concerned.

    Please don't top post.


    --
    The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.


  12. Re: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    In article ,
    Xiangrong Cai wrote:
    :
    :That question being answered, I still have one more question: what is
    :the difference between "telnet localhost 25" from localhost and "telnet
    :47.17.170.28 25" from a remote host? Why in the first form, somebody (I
    :think it is sendmail) serves the port 25, while in the second form,
    :nobody servers port 25?

    Perhaps because you have sendmail configured to listen only on the
    loopback address, as in this excerpt from sendmail.mc:

    dnl #
    dnl # The following causes sendmail to only listen on the IPv4 loopback address
    dnl # 127.0.0.1 and not on any other network devices. Remove the loopback
    dnl # address restriction to accept email from the internet or intranet.
    dnl #
    DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA')dnl

    That or a firewall not allowing inbound port 25 are the only two likely
    explanations.

    --
    Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

  13. Re: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    Robert Nichols wrote:
    > In article ,
    > Xiangrong Cai wrote:
    > :
    > :That question being answered, I still have one more question: what is
    > :the difference between "telnet localhost 25" from localhost and "telnet
    > :47.17.170.28 25" from a remote host? Why in the first form, somebody (I
    > :think it is sendmail) serves the port 25, while in the second form,
    > :nobody servers port 25?
    >
    > Perhaps because you have sendmail configured to listen only on the
    > loopback address, as in this excerpt from sendmail.mc:
    >
    > dnl #
    > dnl # The following causes sendmail to only listen on the IPv4 loopback address
    > dnl # 127.0.0.1 and not on any other network devices. Remove the loopback
    > dnl # address restriction to accept email from the internet or intranet.
    > dnl #
    > DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA')dnl
    >
    > That or a firewall not allowing inbound port 25 are the only two likely
    > explanations.
    >


    Thanks all who responsed. I learned a lot and I think I know part of the reason
    now :-)

    Here is the output per Mr. Box's comments:

    96% netstat -na | grep LISTEN | grep 25
    tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:25 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN

    On the solaris2.5.1 though, it is:
    1% netstat -na | grep LISTEN | grep 25
    *.25 *.* 0 0 0 0 LISTEN

    So on my Linux I am listening only to 127.0.0.1:25, not 0.0.0.0:25. But it seems
    to me my sendmail is not configured to do so (I am not familiar with sendmail
    config though). Can somebody find the problem for me? Here is my sendmail.mc.
    You can see that the line "DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1,
    Name=MTA')dnl" [enclosed by <<<<< >>>>> below] is commented out. And I really
    don't think there is any firewall configured to block port 25 in the machine,
    which is a desktop for my daily work.

    92% more sendmail.mc
    divert(-1)
    dnl This is the sendmail macro config file. If you make changes to this file,
    dnl you need the sendmail-cf rpm installed and then have to generate a
    dnl new /etc/sendmail.cf by running the following command:
    dnl
    dnl m4 /etc/mail/sendmail.mc > /etc/sendmail.cf
    dnl
    include(`/usr/share/sendmail-cf/m4/cf.m4')
    VERSIONID(`linux setup for Red Hat Linux')dnl
    OSTYPE(`linux')
    define(`confDEF_USER_ID',``8:12'')dnl
    undefine(`UUCP_RELAY')dnl
    undefine(`BITNET_RELAY')dnl
    define(`SMART_HOST',`ussmtp.us.nortel.com')dnl
    dnl define(`confAUTO_REBUILD')dnl
    define(`confTO_CONNECT', `1m')dnl
    define(`confTRY_NULL_MX_LIST',true)dnl
    define(`confDONT_PROBE_INTERFACES',true)dnl
    define(`PROCMAIL_MAILER_PATH',`/usr/bin/procmail')dnl
    define(`ALIAS_FILE', `/etc/aliases')dnl
    dnl define(`STATUS_FILE', `/etc/mail/statistics')dnl
    define(`UUCP_MAILER_MAX', `2000000')dnl
    define(`confUSERDB_SPEC', `/etc/mail/userdb.db')dnl
    define(`confPRIVACY_FLAGS', `authwarnings,novrfy,noexpn,restrictqrun')dnl
    define(`confAUTH_OPTIONS', `A')dnl
    dnl TRUST_AUTH_MECH(`DIGEST-MD5 CRAM-MD5 LOGIN PLAIN')dnl
    dnl define(`confAUTH_MECHANISMS', `DIGEST-MD5 CRAM-MD5 LOGIN PLAIN')dnl
    dnl define(`confTO_QUEUEWARN', `4h')dnl
    dnl define(`confTO_QUEUERETURN', `5d')dnl
    dnl define(`confQUEUE_LA', `12')dnl
    dnl define(`confREFUSE_LA', `18')dnl
    dnl FEATURE(delay_checks)dnl
    FEATURE(`no_default_msa',`dnl')dnl
    FEATURE(`smrsh',`/usr/sbin/smrsh')dnl
    FEATURE(`mailertable',`hash -o /etc/mail/mailertable.db')dnl
    FEATURE(`virtusertable',`hash -o /etc/mail/virtusertable.db')dnl
    FEATURE(redirect)dnl
    FEATURE(always_add_domain)dnl
    FEATURE(use_cw_file)dnl
    FEATURE(use_ct_file)dnl
    FEATURE(local_procmail,`',`procmail -t -Y -a $h -d $u')dnl
    FEATURE(`access_db', `hash -T /etc/mail/access.db')dnl
    FEATURE(`blacklist_recipients')dnl
    EXPOSED_USER(`root')dnl
    dnl This changes sendmail to only listen on the loopback device 127.0.0.1
    dnl and not on any other network devices. Comment this out if you want
    dnl to accept email over the network.
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    dnl DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA')dnl NOTE: binding both
    IPv4 and IPv6 daemon to the same port requires
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    dnl a kernel patch
    dnl DAEMON_OPTIONS(`port=smtp,Addr=::1, Name=MTA-v6, Family=inet6')
    dnl We strongly recommend to comment this one out if you want to protect
    dnl yourself from spam. However, the laptop and users on computers that do
    dnl not have 24x7 DNS do need this.
    FEATURE(`accept_unresolvable_domains')dnl
    dnl FEATURE(`relay_based_on_MX')dnl
    MAILER(smtp)dnl
    MAILER(procmail)dnl
    Cwlocalhost.localdomain


  14. Re: Can't "telnet mail-host 25"

    In article ,
    Xiangrong Cai wrote:
    :Robert Nichols wrote:
    :> In article ,
    :> Xiangrong Cai wrote:
    :> :
    :> :That question being answered, I still have one more question: what is
    :> :the difference between "telnet localhost 25" from localhost and "telnet
    :> :47.17.170.28 25" from a remote host? Why in the first form, somebody (I
    :> :think it is sendmail) serves the port 25, while in the second form,
    :> :nobody servers port 25?
    :>
    :> Perhaps because you have sendmail configured to listen only on the
    :> loopback address, as in this excerpt from sendmail.mc:
    :>
    :> dnl #
    :> dnl # The following causes sendmail to only listen on the IPv4 loopback address
    :> dnl # 127.0.0.1 and not on any other network devices. Remove the loopback
    :> dnl # address restriction to accept email from the internet or intranet.
    :> dnl #
    :> DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA')dnl
    :>
    :> That or a firewall not allowing inbound port 25 are the only two likely
    :> explanations.
    :>
    :
    :Thanks all who responsed. I learned a lot and I think I know part of the reason
    :now :-)
    :
    :Here is the output per Mr. Box's comments:
    :
    :96% netstat -na | grep LISTEN | grep 25
    :tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:25 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN
    :
    :On the solaris2.5.1 though, it is:
    :1% netstat -na | grep LISTEN | grep 25
    : *.25 *.* 0 0 0 0 LISTEN
    :
    :So on my Linux I am listening only to 127.0.0.1:25, not 0.0.0.0:25. But it seems
    :to me my sendmail is not configured to do so (I am not familiar with sendmail
    :config though). Can somebody find the problem for me? Here is my sendmail.mc.
    :You can see that the line "DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1,
    :Name=MTA')dnl" [enclosed by <<<<< >>>>> below] is commented out. And I really
    :don't think there is any firewall configured to block port 25 in the machine,
    :which is a desktop for my daily work.
    [SNIP]

    Your sendmail is listening only on the local loopback address. Did
    /etc/sendmail.cf get rebuilt after you edited the sendmail.mc file?
    Check the file modification times, and grep for "DaemonPortOptions" in
    your sendmail.cf file. In many Linux distributions you just need to run
    "make" in the /etc/mail directory, but it's also common for that to be
    done automatically when the sendmail service is started, so I'm not sure
    what your problem might be. Perhaps 'make' isn't installed on your
    system. The command to rebuild sendmail.cf manually is:

    mv sendmail.cf sendmail.cf.bak
    m4 sendmail.mc >sendmail.cf

    --
    Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

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