Fedora Core 2 Is Crap !!!! - Redhat

This is a discussion on Fedora Core 2 Is Crap !!!! - Redhat ; pybe wrote: > > > On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 00:35:59 -0700, David Barndsale wrote: > > >>Don Campbell wrote in message news: ... >> >>>Sandgroper, >>The whole concept of early-adopters is so much part of >>the culture of Linux ...

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Thread: Fedora Core 2 Is Crap !!!!

  1. Re: Early Adoption - was Fedora Core 2 Is Crap !!!!

    pybe wrote:

    >
    >
    > On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 00:35:59 -0700, David Barndsale wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Don Campbell wrote in message news:<10cmgvn8c7h8r21@corp.supernews.com>...
    >>
    >>>Sandgroper,


    >>The whole concept of early-adopters is so much part of
    >>the culture of Linux that people seem to think
    >>that it goes without saying.
    >>
    >>Being bleeding edge is exciting when you know what
    >>you hav let yourself in for but extremely frustrating
    >>if you don’t know the score.
    >>
    >>Red Hat is at fault to the extent that they don’t
    >>ensure that people do know the score.
    >>
    >>David

    >
    >
    > At the very top of http://fedora.redhat.com
    >
    > What is The Fedora Project?
    >
    > The Fedora Project is a Red-Hat-sponsored and community-supported open
    > source project. It is also a proving ground for new technology that may
    > eventually make its way into Red Hat products. It is not a supported
    > product of Red Hat, Inc.
    >

    Right. Red Hat is quite clear about what you can expect to get with Fedora
    (and the main reason I do not use it). I think the problem here parallels
    one I often get.

    If you send an e-mail to someone whose mail server is not on line all the
    time, you get a message that says that the system failed to deliver the
    mail in the last 4 hours. The message explicitely says the sender need do
    nothing and that the system will keep trying for 5 days.

    Pretty clear, right?

    But when my mail server did not connect to the network more often than
    once every 4 hours, people would complain their mail to me had bounced and
    what was my correct e-mail address, that I should fix my computer, etc.
    When I asked them what the problem was, the exact words, they never knew.

    So, at least in USA, a large fraction of computer users are functionally
    illiterate. Telling them to RTFM, or even to read the message they
    received, is taken by them as an insult. I imagine they are all hopeless.

    --
    .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
    /V\ Registered Machine 241939.
    /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
    ^^-^^ 07:30:00 up 6:54, 4 users, load average: 1.27, 1.20, 1.17


  2. Re: Early Adoption - was Fedora Core 2 Is Crap !!!!

    On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:23:13 +0100, pybe wrote:

    >At the very top of http://fedora.redhat.com
    >
    >What is The Fedora Project?
    >
    >The Fedora Project is a Red-Hat-sponsored and community-supported open
    >source project. It is also a proving ground for new technology that may
    >eventually make its way into Red Hat products. It is not a supported
    >product of Red Hat, Inc.



    Well if you point is that he should hav been well warned because
    of that, no, for two reasons. First something like Don's warning
    needs to be on the page for the downloads. Second the point is
    not that Fedora isn't Red Hat but that newbees should not
    be early adopters of Fedora 2. Fedora 1 has the reputation
    of being solid and dependable. The info you cite doesn't
    warn people that installing Fedora 2 means putting yourself into
    the role of a beta tester and those with less patience should
    wait until braver soles hav wrestled with the inevitable
    hardware compatibility problems.

    If your point is simply that I am vague about the relationship
    between Red Hat and Fedora , then yes I am. But that's
    not the point at issue.

    David



    English Spelling Reform:
    http://www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk/spell/

  3. Re: Early Adoption - was Fedora Core 2 Is Crap !!!!

    On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 07:37:54 -0400, Jean-David Beyer
    wrote:

    >
    >So, at least in USA, a large fraction of computer users are functionally
    >illiterate. Telling them to RTFM, or even to read the message they
    >received, is taken by them as an insult. I imagine they are all hopeless.
    >


    Could you explain your point. I mean who do you think should hav
    read something which was obvious.

    David

    English Spelling Reform:
    http://www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk/spell/

  4. Re: Early Adoption - was Fedora Core 2 Is Crap !!!!

    It was more aimed at the fact that everyone keeps saying RedHat
    haven't/should have etc. The 'project' is community based and you should
    probably try talking to them about the issues either in the fedora lists
    or through bugzilla.

    The release schedule for fedora is about 3 major releases a year AFAICT
    this is very quick, but it is not really a beta release. You will find
    that certain hw combinations will have problems, but this happens with the
    other distro's as well. On my current laptop slackware didn't find all the
    hw and neither did suse or mandrake. But fedora 1 & 2 have installed with
    out any issue.

    I guess you will always have some who have difficulties, even more so with
    Fedora's release schedule. I suppose they could have said more on the
    site, but I don't think it should be along the lines of 'This is a beta
    release and may not work for you' as there are many people out there using
    it happily.

    After spewing the above I don't think I have a conclusion buy hey, you get
    what you pay for =)

    James

    On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:26:16 +0000, someone wrote:

    > On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:23:13 +0100, pybe wrote:
    >
    >>At the very top of http://fedora.redhat.com
    >>
    >>What is The Fedora Project?
    >>
    >>The Fedora Project is a Red-Hat-sponsored and community-supported open
    >>source project. It is also a proving ground for new technology that may
    >>eventually make its way into Red Hat products. It is not a supported
    >>product of Red Hat, Inc.

    >
    >
    > Well if you point is that he should hav been well warned because
    > of that, no, for two reasons. First something like Don's warning
    > needs to be on the page for the downloads. Second the point is
    > not that Fedora isn't Red Hat but that newbees should not
    > be early adopters of Fedora 2. Fedora 1 has the reputation
    > of being solid and dependable. The info you cite doesn't
    > warn people that installing Fedora 2 means putting yourself into
    > the role of a beta tester and those with less patience should
    > wait until braver soles hav wrestled with the inevitable
    > hardware compatibility problems.
    >
    > If your point is simply that I am vague about the relationship
    > between Red Hat and Fedora , then yes I am. But that's
    > not the point at issue.
    >
    > David
    >
    >
    >
    > English Spelling Reform:
    > http://www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk/spell/



  5. Re: Early Adoption - was Fedora Core 2 Is Crap !!!!

    someone@nospam.demon.co.uk wrote:
    > On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 07:37:54 -0400, Jean-David Beyer
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>So, at least in USA, a large fraction of computer users are functionally
    >>illiterate. Telling them to RTFM, or even to read the message they
    >>received, is taken by them as an insult. I imagine they are all hopeless.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Could you explain your point. I mean who do you think should hav
    > read something which was obvious.


    When Red Hat say this:

    What is The Fedora Project?

    The Fedora Project is a Red-Hat-sponsored and community-supported open
    source project. It is also a proving ground for new technology that may
    eventually make its way into Red Hat products. It is not a supported
    product of Red Hat, Inc.

    How, after having read that people complain that Fedora (Core 2) Is Crap,
    it seems to me that they could not understand plain English. If it is
    obvious, then they would not have had to read that, nor would they be
    justified that it is not supported by Red Hat, that it is a proving ground
    for new technology (and guess who is to test it). And so on. And if it is
    not obvious to them, then reading that stuff should have made it obvious
    if they can read.
    >
    > David
    >
    > English Spelling Reform:
    > http://www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk/spell/


    My uncle, Kenneth Ives (not the cinematic director), was pushing English
    Spelling Reform for decades (as you probably know).


    --
    .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
    /V\ Registered Machine 241939.
    /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
    ^^-^^ 09:25:00 up 1 day, 8:49, 3 users, load average: 3.07, 3.11, 3.09


  6. Re: Early Adoption - was Fedora Core 2 Is Crap !!!!

    On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 10:45:33 +0100, pybe wrote:

    >After spewing the above I don't think I have a conclusion buy hey, you get
    >what you pay for =)


    No offense intended, but I think that statement is a bit unfairly flattering to
    Microsoft.

  7. Re: Early Adoption - was Fedora Core 2 Is Crap !!!!

    Point taken, no conclusion in that case. =)

    On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 18:35:09
    +0000, Mark Nagy wrote:

    > On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 10:45:33 +0100, pybe wrote:
    >
    >>After spewing the above I don't think I have a conclusion buy hey, you get
    >>what you pay for =)

    >
    > No offense intended, but I think that statement is a bit unfairly flattering to
    > Microsoft.



  8. Re: Early Adoption - was Fedora Core 2 Is Crap !!!!

    On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 10:45:33 +0100, pybe wrote:

    >It was more aimed at the fact that everyone keeps saying RedHat
    >haven't/should have etc. The 'project' is community based and you should
    >probably try talking to them about the issues either in the fedora lists
    >or through bugzilla.


    Point taken but the communication gap between Linux oldtimers
    and people coming from Widows and expecting Linux to work
    just like Windows but free is wider than that. A lot of people
    get pissed off because their expectations are wrong. However
    when a lot of people hav false expectations then maybe it would
    be worth looking at why they get those wrong expectations.

    Al l language is a kind of shorthand. When we state something
    the message is about 50% what we are actually say and 50%
    assumptions, preconceptions etc that don't need stating.

    That is fine until you meet someone with different preconceptions
    from your own.

    I suspect the reason that the Fedora didn't put a warning on their
    site was that they thought it was too obvious to be worth
    stating.


    >The release schedule for fedora is about 3 major releases a year AFAICT
    >this is very quick, but it is not really a beta release. You will find
    >that certain hw combinations will have problems, but this happens with the
    >other distro's as well. On my current laptop slackware didn't find all the
    >hw and neither did suse or mandrake. But fedora 1 & 2 have installed with
    >out any issue.


    Yes, Fedora is very reliable. That is why it comes as a shock
    when it lets you down. If people get clear warnings
    then it's not a shock but a challenge. I hav three friends
    with Linux on their computer. One has never used Windows.
    The other two hit problems and gave up so it is sitting on their
    computer unused while they go on using Windows.

    >I guess you will always have some who have difficulties, even more so with
    >Fedora's release schedule. I suppose they could have said more on the
    >site, but I don't think it should be along the lines of 'This is a beta
    >release and may not work for you' as there are many people out there using
    >it happily.


    Something like
    "This is a new release. Most of you will at once be using it happily
    but
    you may hav hw problems. If you do not feel able to see such possible
    problems as a challenge we advise you to wait a little utill
    such problems are ironed out."

    >After spewing the above I don't think I have a conclusion buy hey, you get
    >what you pay for =)


    Bear in mind that many Windows users don't pay a penny and use
    pirated versions. People coming to Linux may well hav paid more
    for their distro than they hav ever paid for an OS in their life.


    David


    English Spelling Reform:
    http://www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk/spell/


  9. Re: Fedora Core 2 Is Crap !!!!

    Sandgroper wrote:

    > "Boris Glawe" wrote in message


    >>When entering the bios there is no OS yet. How can FC2 be responsible for

    >
    > that ?
    >
    > Well FC 2 is somehow contolling the BIOS on reboot ,


    LOL, you're full of **** and don't know how an x86 computer even works
    to claim such an outlandish thing.

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