"MrBiggles" wrote in message
news:cYBYe.45731$ct5.1325@fed1read04...
> Just a note to any who might be in a similar situation:

> I can not recommend enough that if you're new user, DO NOT INSTALL
> FEDORA CORE 4. Install Mandriva and make your first experience with
> linux a fond memory.

> Even the initial
> install hung multiple times. Mandriva had no problem installing on the
> same exact hardware - all detected perfectly.

Hmmmm. I've tried installing FC4 at least two dozen times in the past two
weeks without success.
All seem to be related to bad I/Os on the CDROM and/or hard drive. I had fun
with RH5 and RH7 but maybe it's time to try something else.

Thanks for the good report on Mandriva.

Tim O

MrBiggles writes:

> Just a note to any who might be in a similar situation:
>
> I wanted a web server, so I installed Fedora Core 4. Well after a week
> of configuration/installation nightmares I decided to wipe the install
> and do a fresh one. I also decided that I should investigate other
> distros while I was at it.
>
> So I downloaded Mandriva LE 2005. My first choice was SUSE, because I
> read so many rave reviews. But their install method is ridiculous. You
> must download all the install files AS THE INSTALL IS TAKING
> PLACE. This is insane because if something goes wrong you have to
> start all over again. The download can take up to 3 days... yes days
> (if on a modem).
>
> So I went with Mandriva. I can report that within 3 hours of the
> installation I had my web server up and running with Apache2, PHP, and
> MySQL, and all properly integrated and communicating with each other.

I've been a Mandrake/Mandriva fan for quite a while.
The repositories you get from the Easy URPMI site make installing
all sorts of software a breeze.

I also support some AS 3/4 RedHat systems, Apache, PHP and MySql didn't
present any special problems.

What I haven't found is the equivalent of Easy URPMI for RedHat.
Can up2date handle the job? I see references to yum, but it (yum)
doesn't appear to be on the official CDs.

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:36:10 -0700, MrBiggles wrote:

> Just a note to any who might be in a similar situation:
>
> I wanted a web server, so I installed Fedora Core 4. Well after a week
> of configuration/installation nightmares I decided to wipe the install
> and do a fresh one. I also decided that I should investigate other
> distros while I was at it.

I have had no problems with FC4.

It's the Indian not the arrows.

--
"Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."
Benjamin Franklin (I didn't know he was a Buddhist)

>
> What I haven't found is the equivalent of Easy URPMI for RedHat.
> Can up2date handle the job? I see references to yum, but it (yum)
> doesn't appear to be on the official CDs.

Forget about up2date it's crap, the tool to use is Yumex. Yumex integrates
updates, installs, removes and repository selection into a single GUI
tool. It's much better then Mandriva's approach of having a separate
interface for each function.

MrBiggles wrote:
> Just a note to any who might be in a similar situation:
>
> I wanted a web server, so I installed Fedora Core 4. Well after a week
> of configuration/installation nightmares I decided to wipe the install
> and do a fresh one. I also decided that I should investigate other
> distros while I was at it.
>

I was using RH 9 without any problems...
so upgraded to FC3 and all worked fine...
Think I'll be skipping the upgrade to FC4 however...
and thanks for the warning.

I had tried Mandriva on another machine
and though it worked fine...
the default fonts were terrible.
I fiddled with it for a while...
then blew it away and installed Vector Linux instead....
It only took about 15 minutes to install on my old laptop!

I think I'll quite fooling with upgraded for a while as
all is working well.

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:00:28 -0500, philo wrote:

> MrBiggles wrote:
>> Just a note to any who might be in a similar situation:
>>
>> I wanted a web server, so I installed Fedora Core 4. Well after a week
>> of configuration/installation nightmares I decided to wipe the install
>> and do a fresh one. I also decided that I should investigate other
>> distros while I was at it.
>>
>
> I was using RH 9 without any problems...
> so upgraded to FC3 and all worked fine...
> Think I'll be skipping the upgrade to FC4 however...
> and thanks for the warning.


FC4 is pretty stable now, you don't have to be afraid of it anymore. I've
got it on two machines and it's working fine. The performance is also
noticeably snappier then FC3.

> Hmmmm. I've tried installing FC4 at least two dozen times in the
past two
> weeks without success.
> All seem to be related to bad I/Os on the CDROM and/or hard drive. I had fun
> with RH5 and RH7 but maybe it's time to try something else.

Yeah, that was something I had a problem with as well. I had to
disconnect my slave HD for FC to even install. It also didn't like my
yamaha cdrw.

General Schvantzkoph wrote:
>>What I haven't found is the equivalent of Easy URPMI for RedHat.
>>Can up2date handle the job? I see references to yum, but it (yum)
>>doesn't appear to be on the official CDs.
>
>
> Forget about up2date it's crap, the tool to use is Yumex. Yumex integrates
> updates, installs, removes and repository selection into a single GUI
> tool. It's much better then Mandriva's approach of having a separate
> interface for each function.

Not sure what you mean by seperate interface for installs. Under the
Mandriva Control Center you can do updates and installs. One thing to
note is that you should add more sources once the installation is done.
That way you get access to the Contrib packages. You can also move the
installation CDs as a package source to the bottom of the list, so it
doesn't keep asking you for the CDs when you install more software.

Ivan Marsh wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:36:10 -0700, MrBiggles wrote:
>
>
>>Just a note to any who might be in a similar situation:
>>
>>I wanted a web server, so I installed Fedora Core 4. Well after a week
>>of configuration/installation nightmares I decided to wipe the install
>>and do a fresh one. I also decided that I should investigate other
>>distros while I was at it.
>
>
> I have had no problems with FC4.
>
> It's the Indian not the arrows.

Then you're a lucky man. If you're suggesting it is user error with the
indian analogy, then you're way off. Also, if you're an indian just
learning to shoot, you might as well used a well balanced set of bow and
arrows.

General Schvantzkoph writes:

>>
>> What I haven't found is the equivalent of Easy URPMI for RedHat.
>> Can up2date handle the job? I see references to yum, but it (yum)
>> doesn't appear to be on the official CDs.
>
> Forget about up2date it's crap, the tool to use is Yumex. Yumex integrates
> updates, installs, removes and repository selection into a single GUI
> tool. It's much better then Mandriva's approach of having a separate
> interface for each function.

Hmm, no yumex on this machine:

bushie> cat /proc/version
Linux version 2.6.9-11.ELsmp (bhcompile@decompose.build.redhat.com)
(gcc version 3.4.3 20050227 (Red Hat 3.4.3-22))
#1 SMP Fri May 20 18:26:27 EDT 2005
bushie> type yumex
yumex not found

This is a paid for version of RedHat.
I'd like to keep the main packages on the machine
compatible with other typical AS 4 machines.

Isn't there something that does a decent job from RedHat?

MrBiggles writes:

>General Schvantzkoph wrote:
>>>What I haven't found is the equivalent of Easy URPMI for RedHat.
>>>Can up2date handle the job? I see references to yum, but it (yum)
>>>doesn't appear to be on the official CDs.
>>
>>
>> Forget about up2date it's crap, the tool to use is Yumex. Yumex integrates
>> updates, installs, removes and repository selection into a single GUI
>> tool. It's much better then Mandriva's approach of having a separate
>> interface for each function.

>Not sure what you mean by seperate interface for installs. Under the
>Mandriva Control Center you can do updates and installs. One thing to
>note is that you should add more sources once the installation is done.
>That way you get access to the Contrib packages. You can also move the
>installation CDs as a package source to the bottom of the list, so it
>doesn't keep asking you for the CDs when you install more software.

If you have the room on your hard disk, just put all the CDs onto the hard
disk, remove the original install urpmi sources and install the hard drive
locations as your sources for urpmi. Much more efficient. And takes up
about 2.5G .

Or you can use the web urpmi sources for your main sources as well (ie same
place as you get contrib from, also get the main from there).

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.os.linux.]
Dan Espen enlightened us with:
> I've been a Mandrake/Mandriva fan for quite a while. The
> repositories you get from the Easy URPMI site make installing all
> sorts of software a breeze.

Give me Debian (and distros based on it) any time. It manages packages
better than any RPM-based distro I've seen!

Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Frank Zappa

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:54:00 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

> General Schvantzkoph writes:
>
>>>
>>> What I haven't found is the equivalent of Easy URPMI for RedHat.
>>> Can up2date handle the job? I see references to yum, but it (yum)
>>> doesn't appear to be on the official CDs.
>>
>> Forget about up2date it's crap, the tool to use is Yumex. Yumex integrates
>> updates, installs, removes and repository selection into a single GUI
>> tool. It's much better then Mandriva's approach of having a separate
>> interface for each function.
>
> Hmm, no yumex on this machine:
>
> bushie> cat /proc/version
> Linux version 2.6.9-11.ELsmp (bhcompile@decompose.build.redhat.com)
> (gcc version 3.4.3 20050227 (Red Hat 3.4.3-22))
> #1 SMP Fri May 20 18:26:27 EDT 2005
> bushie> type yumex
> yumex not found
>
> This is a paid for version of RedHat.
> I'd like to keep the main packages on the machine
> compatible with other typical AS 4 machines.
>
> Isn't there something that does a decent job from RedHat?

They are including yumex in FC4, they didn't in FC3 so chances are it's
not part of AS 4. Try doing a yum install yumex, if that doesn't find it
then get it from here,

http://linux.rasmil.dk/cms/modules/d...id=yumex:yumex

So what's the recommendation for a Linux newbie who wants a
user-friendly and stable desktop workstation? I only need it for web
browsing, word processing, and a fancy scientific calculator like
AllerCalc would be great. A friend of mine has a 1.5 year old Mandrake
with a new router and says it just will not work with dhcp. I just
want to order some linux cd's from cheapbytes and get it working
without any problems. User-friendly and security are my highest
priorities. And stability would be nice, lol. Is there something
special I need to do with my router? I have it set up so the router
handles all the local network dhcp. The routers about 6 months old.
Is it using a new dhcp protocol that a 1.5 year old linux doesn't
understand?

Thanks for replies,
Paul

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:00:27 -0700, MrBiggles wrote:

> Ivan Marsh wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:36:10 -0700, MrBiggles wrote:
>>
>>>Just a note to any who might be in a similar situation:
>>>
>>>I wanted a web server, so I installed Fedora Core 4. Well after a week
>>>of configuration/installation nightmares I decided to wipe the install
>>>and do a fresh one. I also decided that I should investigate other
>>>distros while I was at it.
>>
>> I have had no problems with FC4.
>>
>> It's the Indian not the arrows.
>
> Then you're a lucky man. If you're suggesting it is user error with the
> indian analogy, then you're way off. Also, if you're an indian just
> learning to shoot, you might as well used a well balanced set of bow and
> arrows.

Luck has nothing to do with it.

To quote the OP:

"BTW, my problems with Fedora Core 4 were not user error, I had everything
installed as it should have been. It just didn't work, and in multiple
areas... ftp, php-mysql plug-in, yum, GNOME."

If it was "installed as it should have been" it would have worked. Where
are the errors posted that he had? Where are the questions being asked
trying to fix the "issues"?

"Even the initial install hung multiple times."

Obvious hardware config problem that could have been fixed had the OP
actually posted the errors he was having to try to fix them.

If a user won't try to identify the problems they're having with a
particular distribution and, instead, simply whines about how bad a distro
sucks then the issue IS the user and not the distribution.

I have FC3, 4 and Suse8 installed in a production environment on several
servers of differing configurations supporting over a thousand end-users.

To suggest there's something fundamentally flawed with the distribution is
simply FUD.

--
"Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."
Benjamin Franklin (I didn't know he was a Buddhist)

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:00:28 -0500, philo wrote:

> MrBiggles wrote:
>> Just a note to any who might be in a similar situation:
>>
>> I wanted a web server, so I installed Fedora Core 4. Well after a week
>> of configuration/installation nightmares I decided to wipe the install
>> and do a fresh one. I also decided that I should investigate other
>> distros while I was at it.
>
> I was using RH 9 without any problems...
> so upgraded to FC3 and all worked fine...
> Think I'll be skipping the upgrade to FC4 however...
> and thanks for the warning.

Don't believe the FUD dude.

--
"Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."
Benjamin Franklin (I didn't know he was a Buddhist)

pmlonline@gmail.com writes:

>So what's the recommendation for a Linux newbie who wants a
>user-friendly and stable desktop workstation? I only need it for web
>browsing, word processing, and a fancy scientific calculator like
>AllerCalc would be great. A friend of mine has a 1.5 year old Mandrake
>with a new router and says it just will not work with dhcp. I just

Strange because thousands use it with dhcp. Ie, your friend is talking
nonesense.

>want to order some linux cd's from cheapbytes and get it working
>without any problems. User-friendly and security are my highest

Do so.

>priorities. And stability would be nice, lol. Is there something
>special I need to do with my router? I have it set up so the router
>handles all the local network dhcp. The routers about 6 months old.
>Is it using a new dhcp protocol that a 1.5 year old linux doesn't
>understand?

No.

Ask your friend what he is doing.
Note that I use dhcpcd as teh client. I did not like dhclient. find out
which dhcp client your friend is using.

Or ignore your friend and just install it.

mandrake comes with msec to try to handle security for you. I am not a fan
of msec (it does not set things up the way I would like) and if you set
msec too high in a fit of misplaces security zeal, you will find your
machine almost unuseable.


>Thanks for replies,
>Paul

Sounds like flamebait to me, son.

Ivan Marsh wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:00:28 -0500, philo wrote:
>
>
>>MrBiggles wrote:
>>
>>>Just a note to any who might be in a similar situation:
>>>
>>>I wanted a web server, so I installed Fedora Core 4. Well after a week
>>>of configuration/installation nightmares I decided to wipe the install
>>>and do a fresh one. I also decided that I should investigate other
>>>distros while I was at it.
>>
>>I was using RH 9 without any problems...
>>so upgraded to FC3 and all worked fine...
>>Think I'll be skipping the upgrade to FC4 however...
>>and thanks for the warning.
>
>
> Don't believe the FUD dude.

What's a FUD?