Learning Curve... - Questions

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Thread: Learning Curve...

  1. Learning Curve...

    In general, how long would you say that an experienced DOS and windows
    user, would be up-to-speed in linux? I have been working with computers
    since the DOS 5.0 era and always have been somewhat "techie".

    I just installed rh7.3 on an old PII I had sitting around and have really
    enjoyed working on it, but still feel like a newbie (which is such a
    strange feeling to me). All this is still foreign to me, but I am
    certainly learning pretty quickly.

    So, just a simple "opinion-question" to satisfy my curiousity! Thanks!

    Dan


  2. Re: Learning Curve...

    Daniel Koepke wrote:
    > In general, how long would you say that an experienced DOS and windows
    > user, would be up-to-speed in linux? I have been working with computers
    > since the DOS 5.0 era and always have been somewhat "techie".
    >
    > I just installed rh7.3 on an old PII I had sitting around and have really
    > enjoyed working on it, but still feel like a newbie (which is such a
    > strange feeling to me). All this is still foreign to me, but I am
    > certainly learning pretty quickly.
    >
    > So, just a simple "opinion-question" to satisfy my curiousity! Thanks!
    >
    > Dan
    >

    Depends on what you want to do with it. If you just want to *use* it,
    like Windows, it should take you a couple of weeks of intensive use.
    Most of the time will be spent trying to figure out how to do simple
    things: burning CD, printing, file management (if you use cmd lines in
    Windows). After a short while you'll hate having to boot Windows :-)

  3. Re: Learning Curve...

    In article , Daniel Koepke
    wrote:

    >In general, how long would you say that an experienced DOS and windows
    >user, would be up-to-speed in linux? I have been working with computers
    >since the DOS 5.0 era and always have been somewhat "techie".


    Ah, but what were you doing with DOS 5.0? The basic OS had 70 commands
    (plus 8 more used in batchfiles), and no networking.

    [compton ~]$ ls `echo $PATH | tr ':' ' '` | grep -Evc '(:|^$)'
    1296
    [compton ~]$

    As a user, there are 1296 commands in my PATH (about 1650 as root), and
    networking is a way of life in *nix.

    >I just installed rh7.3 on an old PII I had sitting around and have really
    >enjoyed working on it, but still feel like a newbie (which is such a
    >strange feeling to me). All this is still foreign to me, but I am
    >certainly learning pretty quickly.


    RH7.3 came out in May 2002, and the official Red Hat support ended at
    the end of December 2003. There is still a limited amount of support
    from download.fedoralegacy.org, but it's a bit on the old side.

    >So, just a simple "opinion-question" to satisfy my curiousity! Thanks!


    How long did it take you to come up to speed in DOS 5? What are you
    trying to do in Linux? If you are just clicking on icons, it's not
    really that long - things are obviously different from windoze, but the
    basic concepts are similar. On the other hand, if you are trying to
    write scripts (the equivalent of batch files) to de-spam your mail on
    your ISP's mail server before you attempt to download, you will need
    a lot more time. The "Introduction to Unix" class I took a long time
    ago spent about a quarter of the semester just trying to bring us up to
    speed on 'vi' and 'mail' (two 3 hour classes per week). You'd also be
    hitting books pretty hard, because the 'man' pages aren't all that user
    friendly. Luckily, there are a bunch of 'HOWTOs' (if you installed them,
    look in /usr/share/HOWTO/), and more than twenty free books from the
    Linux Documentation Project. A few of those might be on your system too,
    but you can always go to http://tldp.org/guides.html

    Old guy


  4. Re: Learning Curve...

    Sorry for not being more specific. My point was to try to give the
    impression of my experience and what I have been used to in the past. I
    went from DOS 5.0, to DOS 6.2, Win 3.11, Win95, Win98 and up until
    recently (meaning the last couple of weeks of linux), Win 2K (at home and
    work). So, that has been about 13 years, give or take. As for what I
    was doing with DOS at that time...well, probably not much more than
    changing directories and running executables

    I realize rh7.3 is a bit on the old side, but I am new to all this and
    this is what I had available. I have already updated the kernel and
    installed several programs and updates successfully. I am not all that
    concerned with being on the cutting edge, and seeing this is a secondary
    computer, I am fine with that. I will likely be using this mainly for
    basic computing needs plus an internet connection...well, that and just
    to get a better feel for the linux environment.

    So, it sounds like I could be looking at a few months with tutorials and
    how-to's for what I will likely be doing. I am using gnome right now, so
    the basic concepts, as you stated, are similar. I am just learning what
    programs I really have available.

    Thanks for your reply. does it really make much sends for me to be
    looking for brand new releases if everything I have been doing on this
    box is working fine?

    Dan

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 17:43:57 -0500, Moe Trin wrote:

    > In article , Daniel
    > Koepke wrote:
    >
    >>In general, how long would you say that an experienced DOS and windows
    >>user, would be up-to-speed in linux? I have been working with computers
    >>since the DOS 5.0 era and always have been somewhat "techie".

    >
    > Ah, but what were you doing with DOS 5.0? The basic OS had 70 commands
    > (plus 8 more used in batchfiles), and no networking.
    >
    > [compton ~]$ ls `echo $PATH | tr ':' ' '` | grep -Evc '(:|^$)' 1296
    > [compton ~]$
    >
    > As a user, there are 1296 commands in my PATH (about 1650 as root), and
    > networking is a way of life in *nix.
    >
    >>I just installed rh7.3 on an old PII I had sitting around and have
    >>really enjoyed working on it, but still feel like a newbie (which is
    >>such a strange feeling to me). All this is still foreign to me, but I
    >>am certainly learning pretty quickly.

    >
    > RH7.3 came out in May 2002, and the official Red Hat support ended at
    > the end of December 2003. There is still a limited amount of support
    > from download.fedoralegacy.org, but it's a bit on the old side.
    >
    >>So, just a simple "opinion-question" to satisfy my curiousity! Thanks!

    >
    > How long did it take you to come up to speed in DOS 5? What are you
    > trying to do in Linux? If you are just clicking on icons, it's not
    > really that long - things are obviously different from windoze, but the
    > basic concepts are similar. On the other hand, if you are trying to
    > write scripts (the equivalent of batch files) to de-spam your mail on
    > your ISP's mail server before you attempt to download, you will need a
    > lot more time. The "Introduction to Unix" class I took a long time ago
    > spent about a quarter of the semester just trying to bring us up to
    > speed on 'vi' and 'mail' (two 3 hour classes per week). You'd also be
    > hitting books pretty hard, because the 'man' pages aren't all that user
    > friendly. Luckily, there are a bunch of 'HOWTOs' (if you installed them,
    > look in /usr/share/HOWTO/), and more than twenty free books from the
    > Linux Documentation Project. A few of those might be on your system too,
    > but you can always go to http://tldp.org/guides.html
    >
    > Old guy


  5. Re: Learning Curve...

    On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:49:07 -0500, Malte wrote:

    > Daniel Koepke wrote:
    >> In general, how long would you say that an experienced DOS and windows
    >> user, would be up-to-speed in linux? I have been working with
    >> computers since the DOS 5.0 era and always have been somewhat "techie".
    >>
    >> I just installed rh7.3 on an old PII I had sitting around and have
    >> really enjoyed working on it, but still feel like a newbie (which is
    >> such a strange feeling to me). All this is still foreign to me, but I
    >> am certainly learning pretty quickly.
    >>
    >> So, just a simple "opinion-question" to satisfy my curiousity! Thanks!
    >>
    >> Dan
    >>

    > Depends on what you want to do with it. If you just want to *use* it,
    > like Windows, it should take you a couple of weeks of intensive use.
    > Most of the time will be spent trying to figure out how to do simple
    > things: burning CD, printing, file management (if you use cmd lines in
    > Windows). After a short while you'll hate having to boot Windows :-)


    Yeah, it is pretty much a mix of just "using" it, but also wanting to
    learn more command-line and linux/unix stuff. I don't think I will get
    away from having linux and windows here at home for some time, but this
    is certainly a start in that direction.

    I have noticed that I am spending a lot of time figuring out the simple
    stuff Thanks for your reply!!!

    Dan

  6. Re: Learning Curve...

    In article , Daniel
    Koepke wrote:

    >As for what I was doing with DOS at that time...well, probably not much
    >more than changing directories and running executables


    I think the first three DOS commands I mastered were 'cd' 'dir' and 'cls'
    which become 'cd' 'ls' and 'clear' in *nix ;-)

    >I realize rh7.3 is a bit on the old side, but I am new to all this and
    >this is what I had available. I have already updated the kernel and
    >installed several programs and updates successfully.


    OK, that sounds good. As a newbie, using the package manager may at first
    seem daunting, but it's a _very_ handy tool. A minor problem is that rpms
    are not compatible across distributions or even versions (hence the
    separate updates directories at redhat or fedoralegacy.org). The lowest
    common denominator is the tarball, compiling from source to make new
    binaries. The disadvantage (outside of the fact that the task is more
    complex) is that there is no package management built into tarballs. Your
    package manager has no idea what you are doing (and thus won't know that
    you have a more modern $FOO installed), and you have to make sure that
    installing $BAR doesn't overwrite $BAZ or otherwise break something else.
    But you learn this from doing, meaning installing 'stuff' that your system
    doesn't have, or depend on. This could be something like a script that will
    summarize web logs, or a goofy piece of eye candy for your desktop (like a
    clock).

    >I am not all that concerned with being on the cutting edge, and seeing
    >this is a secondary computer, I am fine with that. I will likely be using
    >this mainly for basic computing needs plus an internet connection...well,
    >that and just to get a better feel for the linux environment.


    The concern is not about being cutting edge - it's making sure that the
    system can't be exploited. It used to be that Red Hat divided their
    errata notices into 'Security Alerts', 'Bugfixes', and 'Enhancements'.
    We'd look at the 'Security Alerts', see if the package was installed, and
    if so, do the replacement soonest. We'd then do the same with the 'Bugfixes'
    but that was usually a lower priority. 'Enhancements'? Well, that's a maybe.

    Red Hat isn't supporting RH7.3 any more, and the limited number of fixes
    that fedoralegacy.org has are backports from Fedora Core. All this really
    means is that you need to be a bit more aware of problems, and either fix
    those, or configure things such there they are not problems. An example
    of this is 'ssh' which had been exploited. The simple fix is to remove
    (or at least disable) that service. If you do need it (to connect from
    outside your system, configuring your firewall to only allow such
    connections from trusted hosts (other systems on your LAN, perhaps the
    system at work, or your family) is nearly as good.

    >So, it sounds like I could be looking at a few months with tutorials and
    >how-to's for what I will likely be doing.


    You may wish to look at the dates on the HOWTOs and such. At one point, as
    much as a third of the HOWTOs were being updated every six months (an
    advantage of electronic documentation over printed media), though now it's
    only about a tenth. Documentation (meaning HOWTOs and LDP guides) updates
    are not normally part of the errata service, so the stuff that came with
    RH7.3 is a bit old.

    >I am using gnome right now, so the basic concepts, as you stated, are
    >similar. I am just learning what programs I really have available.


    That's fine. As I'm sure you have discovered, there are a bewildering
    number of applications available, and usually several different
    selections. I'll bet there is at least four text editors, four or five
    mail tools, three browsers, and who knows what else.

    >Thanks for your reply. does it really make much sends for me to be
    >looking for brand new releases if everything I have been doing on this
    >box is working fine?


    As long as what you are doing doesn't get into security problems, probably
    not. By this, I mean that you wouldn't want to be running wu-ftpd.2.6.0
    (absolutely ancient - used only as an example) as an ftp server to the
    world, as it has not only known issues, but known exploits in the wild.
    But if you've firewalled it so that it's only accessible from the loopback,
    or at most, other computers on your local LAN ONLY, then it's no-where
    near an important risk. On the other hand, if you _did_ want to run an
    ftp server open to the world, then you'd certainly want to be using the
    current version.

    Old guy

  7. Re: Learning Curve...

    On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:52:44 +0000, Daniel Koepke wrote:

    > In general, how long would you say that an experienced DOS and windows
    > user, would be up-to-speed in linux? I have been working with computers
    > since the DOS 5.0 era and always have been somewhat "techie".
    >
    > I just installed rh7.3 on an old PII I had sitting around and have really
    > enjoyed working on it, but still feel like a newbie (which is such a
    > strange feeling to me). All this is still foreign to me, but I am
    > certainly learning pretty quickly.
    >
    > So, just a simple "opinion-question" to satisfy my curiousity! Thanks!
    >
    > Dan


    I personally would think its up to the person learning. Anyone
    can do anything and a computer is a computer, so long as you have
    an open mind and read the provided documentation and want to learn.
    Linux now days is starting to be alot more GUI admin driven (much
    to my chagrin), therefore some of the windows admins should pick
    it up pretty quick. As you start to learn linux you'll see just
    how much the windows world "stole" from functionality and then
    massaged it into a MORE complicated method of doing things, only
    to wrap a gui around the admin. Its crazy. But anyhow, just dont
    think like a windows or dos guy/girl and think like you dont know
    anything. Accept what is there and you'll see the beauty of Linux
    and Unix as a whole. Oh, final thing. I personnally dont believe
    that one person can know everything or be a total expert. Thats
    why you see alot of posts from me asking simple or stupid questions.
    Linux and Unix are a never ending learning experience in my
    opionion. Theres always something more over the next hill to master
    or learn.

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