Small linux system - Questions

This is a discussion on Small linux system - Questions ; I'm looking at setting up an old PC with linux. It will probably not run X windows at this stage, but I am planning to set up Samba on it and playing with other network stuff. It's a Pentium 100, ...

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Thread: Small linux system

  1. Small linux system

    I'm looking at setting up an old PC with linux. It will probably not run
    X windows at this stage, but I am planning to set up Samba on it and
    playing with other network stuff.

    It's a Pentium 100, 48 MB, 2x HDD total 2.8 GB, 28.8 modem, network and
    sound, CD ROM etc.

    I'm looking at Debian, and perhaps being conservative and running an
    older stable release. Who distributes that in NZ cheaply and what comes
    in the distro? Is Debian easy to install for a first time user?

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  2. Re: Small linux system

    On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:54:45 +1300, Mainlander wrote:

    > Who distributes that in NZ cheaply and what comes in the
    > distro? Is Debian easy to install for a first time user?


    Freely downloadable from an FTP server.

    ftp://ftp.debian.org

    Good luck...

    Lennier


  3. Re: Small linux system

    Mainlander wrote:
    > I'm looking at setting up an old PC with linux. It will probably not
    > run X windows at this stage, but I am planning to set up Samba on it
    > and playing with other network stuff.
    >
    > It's a Pentium 100, 48 MB, 2x HDD total 2.8 GB, 28.8 modem, network
    > and sound, CD ROM etc.
    >
    > I'm looking at Debian, and perhaps being conservative and running an
    > older stable release. Who distributes that in NZ cheaply and what
    > comes in the distro? Is Debian easy to install for a first time user?


    Debian can be installed directly from the debian archive without downloading
    an iso

    The installation instructions are here
    ftp://ftp.nz.debian.org/debian/dists.../index.en.html

    You can buy the debian disks from copyleft.
    http://www.copyleft.co.nz/
    You only need the first one for what you are doing.
    You can download it from ftp://debian.co.nz/Debian/Woody/
    What sort of vga card, sound card and network card are you going to use, and
    I can tell you step by step what answers to give.
    Debian is as easy to install as anything else with the exception that you
    have to manually select your hardware from a list of options.
    Its not that hard



  4. Re: Small linux system

    In article , xx@xx.xx says...
    > Mainlander wrote:
    > > I'm looking at setting up an old PC with linux. It will probably not
    > > run X windows at this stage, but I am planning to set up Samba on it
    > > and playing with other network stuff.
    > >
    > > It's a Pentium 100, 48 MB, 2x HDD total 2.8 GB, 28.8 modem, network
    > > and sound, CD ROM etc.
    > >
    > > I'm looking at Debian, and perhaps being conservative and running an
    > > older stable release. Who distributes that in NZ cheaply and what
    > > comes in the distro? Is Debian easy to install for a first time user?

    >
    > Debian can be installed directly from the debian archive without downloading
    > an iso


    On a 28.8?

    > The installation instructions are here
    > ftp://ftp.nz.debian.org/debian/dists.../index.en.html
    >
    > You can buy the debian disks from copyleft.
    > http://www.copyleft.co.nz/
    > You only need the first one for what you are doing.
    > You can download it from ftp://debian.co.nz/Debian/Woody/
    > What sort of vga card, sound card and network card are you going to use, and
    > I can tell you step by step what answers to give.
    > Debian is as easy to install as anything else with the exception that you
    > have to manually select your hardware from a list of options.
    > Its not that hard


    Display: Cirrus 5446
    network: ne2000 compatible (we'll see if it works, if not I might have to
    get a new network card) - it's a compex but I don't think they are
    natively supported
    sound: ess1868, should be supported by alsa



    is this system grunty enough to run KDE or would it run really slowly?

    I see I can get some Debian disks from http://www.xsolutions.co.nz/ , a
    guy at Lincoln University, quite cheaply. But he recommends Mandrake.



    this pc does not have a bootable CD capability - it will require a boot
    floppy.

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  5. Re: Small linux system

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:56:04 +1300, Mainlander wrote:

    >> Debian can be installed directly from the debian archive without
    >> downloading an iso

    >
    > On a 28.8?


    Who today uses such a slow modem as that?

    Lennier


  6. Re: Small linux system

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:56:04 +1300, Mainlander wrote:

    > is this system grunty enough to run KDE or would it run really slowly?


    Pentium 100??

    Too slow to effectively run KDE or Gnome - you'd be waiting for ages all
    the time.

    I use a p120 as my network router/gateway server. a box of that vintage is
    perfect for that job.

    I dunno about CHCH, but here in WN it is possible to pick up "second hand"
    90 day warrantied mobo/celeron 2000 combinations for less than $300.

    Lennier


  7. Re: Small linux system

    In article ,
    Mainlander <*@*.*> wrote:

    >In article , xx@xx.xx says...
    >> Mainlander wrote:
    >> Debian can be installed directly from the debian archive without downloading
    >> an iso

    >
    >On a 28.8?


    Back when I was on dialup, I could download 50 megabytes or more a
    night. I'd just leave it running and go to bed. At that rate, you could
    pull down a reasonably-sized installation CD in about a week.

  8. Re: Small linux system

    Mainlander wrote:
    > In article , xx@xx.xx says...
    >> Mainlander wrote:
    >>> I'm looking at setting up an old PC with linux. It will probably not
    >>> run X windows at this stage, but I am planning to set up Samba on it
    >>> and playing with other network stuff.
    >>>
    >>> It's a Pentium 100, 48 MB, 2x HDD total 2.8 GB, 28.8 modem, network
    >>> and sound, CD ROM etc.
    >>>
    >>> I'm looking at Debian, and perhaps being conservative and running an
    >>> older stable release. Who distributes that in NZ cheaply and what
    >>> comes in the distro? Is Debian easy to install for a first time
    >>> user?

    >>
    >> Debian can be installed directly from the debian archive without
    >> downloading an iso

    >
    > On a 28.8?


    I think you could probably get a console mode install with text browser,
    email client, news client overnight with that.
    Start by downloading
    http://ftp.nz.debian.org/debian/dist...2.4/rescue.bin
    and
    http://ftp.nz.debian.org/debian/dist...bf2.4/root.bin
    and
    http://ftp.nz.debian.org/debian/tools/rwwrtwin.zip
    and use the rawrite app to make the rescue and root floppies for the bf2.4
    kernel install.
    These are the same bootdisks that you will use to install from CD if you
    can't boot from CD
    Boot from the rescue disk and follow the instructions.
    With a regular serial port hardware modem it will set up a ppp session.
    That should get you all the way to a base install.
    Then you can use the tasksel options if you want.
    # apt-get install links slrn
    will get you a browser and a news client


    >
    >> The installation instructions are here
    >>

    ftp://ftp.nz.debian.org/debian/dists.../index.en.html
    >>
    >> You can buy the debian disks from copyleft.
    >> http://www.copyleft.co.nz/
    >> You only need the first one for what you are doing.
    >> You can download it from ftp://debian.co.nz/Debian/Woody/
    >> What sort of vga card, sound card and network card are you going to
    >> use, and I can tell you step by step what answers to give.
    >> Debian is as easy to install as anything else with the exception
    >> that you have to manually select your hardware from a list of
    >> options.
    >> Its not that hard

    >
    > Display: Cirrus 5446
    > network: ne2000 compatible (we'll see if it works, if not I might
    > have to get a new network card) - it's a compex but I don't think
    > they are natively supported
    > sound: ess1868, should be supported by alsa


    Thats an ISA soundblaster compatible isn't it ?

    modconf should allow you to select isapnp for your sound card, which you
    will select as sb
    # apt-get install x-window-system
    and
    # apt-get install xserver-xfree86
    will get you X
    the configuration for xserver-xfree86 will allow you to select the option
    "cirrus"
    You can enter this configuration again by "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86"


    >
    >
    >
    > is this system grunty enough to run KDE or would it run really slowly?


    slow
    you can run mozilla, abiword, sylpheed, pan, xmms on fluxbox or Windowmaker
    or IceWM, they're all much lighter on resources

    >
    > I see I can get some Debian disks from http://www.xsolutions.co.nz/ ,
    > a guy at Lincoln University, quite cheaply. But he recommends
    > Mandrake.


    Sure, but there are good reasons for going with Debian on an old PC
    You will only need the first CD of the Debian set

    >
    >
    >
    > this pc does not have a bootable CD capability - it will require a
    > boot floppy.


    For systems that will boot from CD you use the bf24 boot code to get started
    with a reasonable set of common network cards and a 2.4 kernel and modules.
    The bootdisks I linked earlier are your initial boot floppies.

    Have a look at this
    http://delilinux.berlios.de/

    This isn't Debian, but all the packages that he has selected are in Debian,
    and are good choices.

    "DeLi Linux stands for "Desktop Light" Linux. It is a Linux Distribution for
    old computers, from 486 to Pentium MMX 166 or so. It's focused on desktop
    usage. It includes email clients, graphical web browser, an office package
    with word processor and spreadsheet, and so on. A full install, including
    XFree and development tools, needs not more than 300 MB of harddisk space.

    The trick is, that DeLi Linux uses only "lightweight" alternative software.
    If you are looking for the newest KDE, GNOME or Mozilla, DeLi Linux will not
    make you happy. The test computer is a 486 laptop with 16 MB RAM, and all
    apps which comes with DeLi Linux are running smoothly.

    "Why the heck make a Linux for such old crap ?" you may ask. There are still
    many computers around with the configuration mentioned above, it would be a
    shame to waste them. Many people simply cannot buy a 2 Ghz machine for 1000
    $ or more, but they can buy a Pentium I 133 for 50 $ from ebay. Many people
    are still happy with the computer they bought five years ago. Especially in
    the so-called third world, new hardware is not affordable. Well, there's
    still Windows95 or Windows 3.1, which will run on these machines, too. But
    these versions are not supported by MS anymore, they are no longer in
    production, and finally, you will not get any software for this old Windows
    version. "



    Persist and you will prevail

    Good luck

    :-)





  9. Re: Small linux system

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:25:31 +1300, harry wrote:

    > Well, there's still Windows95 or Windows 3.1, which will run
    > on these machines, too. But these versions are not supported by MS
    > anymore, they are no longer in production, and finally, you will not get
    > any software for this old Windows version. "


    That is not correct.

    It is still possible to buy software that is compatible with Win3.11 .

    Sure it's being sold cheaply - but is still presently available in shops.

    So it doesn't have all the latest bells and whistles - it still works.

    I mean, what do you need a word processor to do? edit graphics or
    something?

    Lennier


  10. Re: Small linux system

    In article ,
    notanyspam@nospam.invalid says...
    > On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:56:04 +1300, Mainlander wrote:
    >
    > >> Debian can be installed directly from the debian archive without
    > >> downloading an iso

    > >
    > > On a 28.8?

    >
    > Who today uses such a slow modem as that?


    Anyone who has one lying around, and can't be bothered paying money for a
    56K, which can not be a winmodem

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  11. Re: Small linux system

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:46:19 +1300, Lennier wrote:

    > On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:25:31 +1300, harry wrote:
    >
    >> Well, there's still Windows95 or Windows 3.1, which will run
    >> on these machines, too. But these versions are not supported by MS
    >> anymore, they are no longer in production, and finally, you will not get
    >> any software for this old Windows version. "

    >
    > That is not correct.
    >
    > It is still possible to buy software that is compatible with Win3.11 .
    >
    > Sure it's being sold cheaply - but is still presently available in shops.
    >
    > So it doesn't have all the latest bells and whistles - it still works.
    >
    > I mean, what do you need a word processor to do? edit graphics or
    > something?
    >


    This is actually a quote from the Delilinux site.
    You are nitpicking, while they are making a solid proposition that the
    latest version of Abiword and subsequent updates will run on Mainlanders
    old PC by using the appropriate window manager.
    It will also run rdesktop and vnc giving him a useful graphic console to
    other network PCs


  12. Re: Small linux system

    In article ,
    notanyspam@nospam.invalid says...
    > On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:25:31 +1300, harry wrote:
    >
    > > Well, there's still Windows95 or Windows 3.1, which will run
    > > on these machines, too. But these versions are not supported by MS
    > > anymore, they are no longer in production, and finally, you will not get
    > > any software for this old Windows version. "

    >
    > That is not correct.
    >
    > It is still possible to buy software that is compatible with Win3.11 .
    >
    > Sure it's being sold cheaply - but is still presently available in shops.
    >
    > So it doesn't have all the latest bells and whistles - it still works.
    >
    > I mean, what do you need a word processor to do? edit graphics or
    > something?


    It may be if you use Write to do your docs but such a system would be of
    little use otherwise.

    I installed Mozilla on my Win95 computer - then found I could not browse
    any websites with Java because Sun no longer offers a JVM that can run on
    less than 98.

    It's a bit like saying Linux should be available to run on a 286

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  13. Re: Small linux system

    In article , bb@cc.dd says...
    > On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:46:19 +1300, Lennier wrote:
    >
    > > On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:25:31 +1300, harry wrote:
    > >
    > >> Well, there's still Windows95 or Windows 3.1, which will run
    > >> on these machines, too. But these versions are not supported by MS
    > >> anymore, they are no longer in production, and finally, you will not get
    > >> any software for this old Windows version. "

    > >
    > > That is not correct.
    > >
    > > It is still possible to buy software that is compatible with Win3.11 .
    > >
    > > Sure it's being sold cheaply - but is still presently available in shops.
    > >
    > > So it doesn't have all the latest bells and whistles - it still works.
    > >
    > > I mean, what do you need a word processor to do? edit graphics or
    > > something?
    > >

    >
    > This is actually a quote from the Delilinux site.
    > You are nitpicking, while they are making a solid proposition that the
    > latest version of Abiword and subsequent updates will run on Mainlanders
    > old PC by using the appropriate window manager.
    > It will also run rdesktop and vnc giving him a useful graphic console to
    > other network PCs


    I don't have any apps that I really want to run on KDE, just to see what
    it looks like

    It would be useful if the Linux installation could run Mozilla

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  14. Re: Small linux system

    "Mainlander" <*@*.*> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1a57b0bbf4dcdecb98a3b4@news.paradise.net. nz

    >>>> Debian can be installed directly from the debian archive without
    >>>> downloading an iso
    >>>
    >>> On a 28.8?

    >>
    >> Who today uses such a slow modem as that?

    >
    > Anyone who has one lying around, and can't be bothered paying money
    > for a 56K, which can not be a winmodem


    A person may very well be using a V.90 modem that is incapable of
    negotiating a faster transfer rate than 28.8 Kbps due to distance from the
    telecom's Central Office (CO) switching equipment, or the quality of the
    intervening connections and physical lines.


    tony


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  15. Re: Small linux system

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:17:05 +1300, Mainlander wrote:

    > I installed Mozilla on my Win95 computer - then found I could not browse
    > any websites with Java because Sun no longer offers a JVM that can run on
    > less than 98.


    So search for a version that does run on win95.

    Surely you've got tons of CDs from magazines which might have a compatible
    JVM for win95...

    Lennier


  16. Re: Small linux system

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:27:31 +1300, Mainlander wrote:

    > I don't have any apps that I really want to run on KDE, just to see what
    > it looks like
    >
    > It would be useful if the Linux installation could run Mozilla


    You do not need KDE in order to run Mozilla.

    Lennier


  17. Re: Small linux system

    Lennier wrote:
    >>I installed Mozilla on my Win95 computer - then found I could not browse
    >>any websites with Java because Sun no longer offers a JVM that can run on
    >>less than 98.


    > So search for a version that does run on win95.
    > Surely you've got tons of CDs from magazines which might have a compatible
    > JVM for win95...


    I'll see if I can find the MS JVM for him to use.

  18. Re: Small linux system


    "ynotssor" <"ynotssor"> wrote in message
    news:3fed49bf_5@corp.newsgroups.com...
    > "Mainlander" <*@*.*> wrote in message
    > news:MPG.1a57b0bbf4dcdecb98a3b4@news.paradise.net. nz
    >
    > >>>> Debian can be installed directly from the debian archive without
    > >>>> downloading an iso
    > >>>
    > >>> On a 28.8?
    > >>
    > >> Who today uses such a slow modem as that?

    > >
    > > Anyone who has one lying around, and can't be bothered paying money
    > > for a 56K, which can not be a winmodem

    >
    > A person may very well be using a V.90 modem that is incapable of
    > negotiating a faster transfer rate than 28.8 Kbps due to distance from the
    > telecom's Central Office (CO) switching equipment, or the quality of the
    > intervening connections and physical lines.
    >
    >
    > tony


    I've still got my Microcom 28.8 simply cos the invoice shows the thing cost
    $900
    and I just can't drop that much in the bin :-(



  19. Re: Small linux system

    "T.N.O." quoted and wrote in
    message news:3fed4ec2@news.iconz.co.nz

    >> So search for a version that does run on win95.
    >> Surely you've got tons of CDs from magazines which might have a
    >> compatible JVM for win95...

    >
    > I'll see if I can find the MS JVM for him to use.


    http://newt.quantumsi.com/pm/crome_j...3_1_02-win.exe

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  20. Re: Small linux system

    ynotssor wrote:
    >>>So search for a version that does run on win95.
    >>>Surely you've got tons of CDs from magazines which might have a
    >>>compatible JVM for win95...


    >>I'll see if I can find the MS JVM for him to use.


    > http://newt.quantumsi.com/pm/crome_j...3_1_02-win.exe


    Is it from prior to them saying this "Sun no longer offers a JVM that
    can run on less than 98."

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