Most popular question : which Server Linux ? - Questions

This is a discussion on Most popular question : which Server Linux ? - Questions ; Hello Gurus, I have been using over 6 year RedHat Linux. As everybody know, until april 2004 RedHat will stop support RHL. What next? Which distribution to use? Lets see the criteria: 1)large documentation, 2)large hardware support, 3)bugs solution and ...

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Thread: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

  1. Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    Hello Gurus,

    I have been using over 6 year RedHat Linux. As everybody know, until
    april 2004 RedHat will stop support RHL. What next? Which distribution
    to use?

    Lets see the criteria: 1)large documentation, 2)large hardware
    support, 3)bugs solution and errata, 4)strong secuirity, 5)easy
    customization.

    I have consider this distribution as best (random order) : trustix,
    freebsd, LFS, debian, SElinux or Fedora.

    What is your oppinion, what else, which one? Why? What else?

    I have been always doing very strong cleaing, deleting and recompiling
    of all distribution, after default installation. I found this enoing
    that, after fresh install, i have spend over 2 week doing ''cleaing''
    and customizing. I dont trust any wizzards or autocreators, i have do
    all from text console and vi/mc/pico. Focusing on it, have you any
    idea of best ''hand configurable'' distribution?

    tp

  2. Re: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    Tomasz Popik wrote:
    > Hello Gurus,
    >
    > I have been using over 6 year RedHat Linux. As everybody know, until
    > april 2004 RedHat will stop support RHL. What next? Which distribution
    > to use?
    >
    > Lets see the criteria: 1)large documentation, 2)large hardware
    > support, 3)bugs solution and errata, 4)strong secuirity, 5)easy
    > customization.
    >
    > I have consider this distribution as best (random order) : trustix,
    > freebsd, LFS, debian, SElinux or Fedora.
    >
    > What is your oppinion, what else, which one? Why? What else?


    Slackware, of course.

    > I have been always doing very strong cleaing, deleting and recompiling
    > of all distribution, after default installation. I found this enoing
    > that, after fresh install, i have spend over 2 week doing ''cleaing''
    > and customizing. I dont trust any wizzards or autocreators, i have do
    > all from text console and vi/mc/pico. Focusing on it, have you any
    > idea of best ''hand configurable'' distribution?


    Slackware, of course.

    http://www.slackware.com/


    --
    Lew Pitcher

    Master Codewright and JOAT-in-training
    Registered Linux User #112576 (http://counter.li.org/)
    Slackware - Because I know what I'm doing.


  3. Re: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    pulapka-google@yahoo.com (Tomasz Popik) wrote in message news:<4edabed.0311301025.5f555dd@posting.google.com>...
    > Hello Gurus,
    >
    > I have been using over 6 year RedHat Linux. As everybody know, until
    > april 2004 RedHat will stop support RHL. What next? Which distribution
    > to use?
    >
    > Lets see the criteria: 1)large documentation, 2)large hardware
    > support, 3)bugs solution and errata, 4)strong secuirity, 5)easy
    > customization.
    >
    > I have consider this distribution as best (random order) : trustix,
    > freebsd, LFS, debian, SElinux or Fedora.
    >
    > What is your oppinion, what else, which one? Why? What else?
    >
    > I have been always doing very strong cleaing, deleting and recompiling
    > of all distribution, after default installation. I found this enoing
    > that, after fresh install, i have spend over 2 week doing ''cleaing''
    > and customizing. I dont trust any wizzards or autocreators, i have do
    > all from text console and vi/mc/pico. Focusing on it, have you any
    > idea of best ''hand configurable'' distribution?
    >
    > tp


    Slackware.

  4. Re: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    Lew Pitcher wrote in message news:...
    > Tomasz Popik wrote:
    > > Hello Gurus,
    > >
    > > I have been using over 6 year RedHat Linux. As everybody know, until
    > > april 2004 RedHat will stop support RHL. What next? Which distribution
    > > to use?
    > >
    > > Lets see the criteria: 1)large documentation, 2)large hardware
    > > support, 3)bugs solution and errata, 4)strong secuirity, 5)easy
    > > customization.
    > >
    > > I have consider this distribution as best (random order) : trustix,
    > > freebsd, LFS, debian, SElinux or Fedora.
    > >
    > > What is your oppinion, what else, which one? Why? What else?

    >
    > Slackware, of course.
    >
    > > I have been always doing very strong cleaing, deleting and recompiling
    > > of all distribution, after default installation. I found this enoing
    > > that, after fresh install, i have spend over 2 week doing ''cleaing''
    > > and customizing. I dont trust any wizzards or autocreators, i have do
    > > all from text console and vi/mc/pico. Focusing on it, have you any
    > > idea of best ''hand configurable'' distribution?

    >
    > Slackware, of course.
    >
    > http://www.slackware.com/



    I was waiting for serius replays, not just a joke. I can give you
    right, slackware is one of odldest distribution, but badly supported.
    All stuff and kernel goes very late. Every other distr. have fast
    update. Next is that slackware have not RPM or DEB packages. Next is
    that number of web pages about slackware is around 900 000, but Debian
    or RedHat have over 5 000 000! So why you suggest me this
    distribution? It is not for home use, but i am thinking about
    important server.

    tp

  5. Re: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    Lew Pitcher wrote in message news:...
    > Tomasz Popik wrote:
    > > Hello Gurus,
    > >
    > > I have been using over 6 year RedHat Linux. As everybody know, until
    > > april 2004 RedHat will stop support RHL. What next? Which distribution
    > > to use?
    > >
    > > Lets see the criteria: 1)large documentation, 2)large hardware
    > > support, 3)bugs solution and errata, 4)strong secuirity, 5)easy
    > > customization.
    > >
    > > I have consider this distribution as best (random order) : trustix,
    > > freebsd, LFS, debian, SElinux or Fedora.
    > >
    > > What is your oppinion, what else, which one? Why? What else?

    >
    > Slackware, of course.
    >
    > > I have been always doing very strong cleaing, deleting and recompiling
    > > of all distribution, after default installation. I found this enoing
    > > that, after fresh install, i have spend over 2 week doing ''cleaing''
    > > and customizing. I dont trust any wizzards or autocreators, i have do
    > > all from text console and vi/mc/pico. Focusing on it, have you any
    > > idea of best ''hand configurable'' distribution?

    >
    > Slackware, of course.
    >
    > http://www.slackware.com/


    I have been looking at the slack web page, and i must cancel that
    slackware uses old kernel (actualy is 2.6 ready) and old packages. The
    gcc and apache looks almost recent. But o keep my word that there is
    no packages system like RPM or DEP?!

  6. Re: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    On 3 Dec 2003 14:38:03 -0800, pulapka-google@yahoo.com (Tomasz Popik) wrote:

    > I have been looking at the slack web page, and i must cancel that
    > slackware uses old kernel (actualy is 2.6 ready) and old packages. The
    > gcc and apache looks almost recent.


    .... to see who's using what: http://www.distrowatch.com/
    ..
    --
    /// Michael J. Tobler: motorcyclist, surfer, skydiver, \\\
    \\\ and author: "Inside Linux", "C++ HowTo", "C++ Unleashed" ///
    Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in
    hospitals dying of nothing. - Redd Foxx

  7. Re: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    mjt wrote in message news:...
    > On 3 Dec 2003 14:38:03 -0800, pulapka-google@yahoo.com (Tomasz Popik) wrote:
    >
    > > I have been looking at the slack web page, and i must cancel that
    > > slackware uses old kernel (actualy is 2.6 ready) and old packages. The
    > > gcc and apache looks almost recent.

    >
    > ... to see who's using what: http://www.distrowatch.com/
    > .



    Oh YES! I was there before posting message her. What i was saw is sad.
    Most popular is Mandrake. This is wrong, i remember when Mandrake was
    created first time by jung FR student, as a clone of RedHat. It is
    good, but Mandrake got it popularity because of user friendly. If you
    are a Network Administrator, you will not direct yourself by
    popularity but security - got about i speak?

    I it sure that most of home linux users are desktop user, they needs
    sugar and candis. Look at Mandrake installator for example.

    Next by popularity is Knoppix - it is 100% sure that because of LIVE
    CD!

    The 3rd is Debian Linux. I am not rember at this moment, which one is
    Slackware, but i have done some research, how many WEB pages is about
    slackware, and is about 900 000 sites, but about Debian is more than 5
    000 000! So, you will be not alone, if you get problem to solve.

    I have continue reserach, and found that RedHat have also 5 000 000
    sites, but Fedora is about 500 000!

    So, here is strong recomendation of using Slackware, can someone show
    me WHY?!

    tp

  8. Re: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    Tomasz Popik wrote:
    > Lew Pitcher wrote in message news:...
    >
    >>Tomasz Popik wrote:
    >>
    >>>Hello Gurus,
    >>>
    >>>I have been using over 6 year RedHat Linux. As everybody know, until
    >>>april 2004 RedHat will stop support RHL. What next? Which distribution
    >>>to use?
    >>>
    >>>Lets see the criteria: 1)large documentation, 2)large hardware
    >>>support, 3)bugs solution and errata, 4)strong secuirity, 5)easy
    >>>customization.
    >>>
    >>>I have consider this distribution as best (random order) : trustix,
    >>>freebsd, LFS, debian, SElinux or Fedora.
    >>>
    >>>What is your oppinion, what else, which one? Why? What else?

    >>
    >>Slackware, of course.
    >>
    >>
    >>>I have been always doing very strong cleaing, deleting and recompiling
    >>>of all distribution, after default installation. I found this enoing
    >>>that, after fresh install, i have spend over 2 week doing ''cleaing''
    >>>and customizing. I dont trust any wizzards or autocreators, i have do
    >>>all from text console and vi/mc/pico. Focusing on it, have you any
    >>>idea of best ''hand configurable'' distribution?

    >>
    >>Slackware, of course.
    >>
    >>http://www.slackware.com/

    >
    >
    >
    > I was waiting for serius replays, not just a joke.


    You *got* a serious reply, not a joke. With an attitude like that, I'm tempted
    to leave you swinging in the wind.

    > I can give you
    > right, slackware is one of odldest distribution, but badly supported.


    Sorry, but you're /wrong/. While being the oldest commercial distribution in
    existance, Slackware is very well supported and readily available.

    > All stuff and kernel goes very late.


    Slackware is the most /stable/ of distributions. Nothing goes in /late/, but
    then again, nothing goes in *early*. No bleeding edge components that fail at
    the wrong moments, no patches on patches on patches, and certainly no "oops,
    the custom patch we put into the kernel just broke your CDROM drive, sorry",
    just simple reliable /fast/ software that only needs basic tools (even "echo"
    will suffice) to maintain.

    > Every other distr. have fast update.


    As does Slackware.

    >Next is that slackware have not RPM or DEB packages.


    Bull****.

    > Next is that number of web pages about slackware is around 900 000, but Debian
    > or RedHat have over 5 000 000!


    So? MSWindows probably has 10,000,000,000 hits. Does that make it a /good/
    system? For that matter, my employer runs his entire business on a system that
    probably only has about 10,000 webpages (if that) dedicated to it. Don't tell
    my employer that the count of the number of lame-ass webpages that mentions
    the OS he uses is a measure of it's capabilities; he'll laugh you out of his
    office and pull all your financing out from under you (he /is/ one of Canada's
    largest banks, after all).


    > So why you suggest me this distribution?


    Yes I do. Take it or leave it, but stop your bitching.

    > It is not for home use, but i am thinking about
    > important server.


    So? Get off your high horse. You asked a question and you got your answer. If
    you wanted me to say "Red Hat", then you should have put the question differently.

    > tp


    Get lost, you twit


    Cordually,

    --
    Lew Pitcher

    Master Codewright and JOAT-in-training
    Registered Linux User #112576 (http://counter.li.org/)
    Slackware - Because I know what I'm doing.


  9. Re: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    Tomasz Popik wrote:
    [snip]

    > But o keep my word that there is no packages system like RPM or DEP?!


    As I said before, "Bull****"

    This from my admittedly *backlevel* Slackware installation

    /var/adm/packages $ more rpm-4.0.2-i386-6
    PACKAGE NAME: rpm-4.0.2-i386-6
    COMPRESSED PACKAGE SIZE: 2118 K
    UNCOMPRESSED PACKAGE SIZE: 5250 K
    PACKAGE LOCATION: /mnt/cdrom/slackware/ap/rpm-4.0.2-i386-6.tgz
    PACKAGE DESCRIPTION:
    rpm: rpm
    rpm:
    rpm: RPM is a tool from Red Hat Software used to install and remove
    rpm: packages in the .rpm format. When installing RPM packages on
    rpm: Slackware, you may need to use the --nodeps and --force options.
    rpm: Before installing any binary package, it's wise to examine it to
    rpm: see what it's going to do, and if it will overwrite any files. You
    rpm: can use rpm2tgz to convert .rpm packages to .tgz packages so you
    rpm: can look them over.
    rpm:
    rpm:


    And, for that matter, the Slackware "pkgtool" package management system is
    still alive and well, and works extremely well, especially for those who "dont
    trust any wizzards or autocreators", who "do all from text console and
    vi/mc/pico" and are looking for the "best ''hand configurable'' distribution".
    Know anyone like that?


    --
    Lew Pitcher

    Master Codewright and JOAT-in-training
    Registered Linux User #112576 (http://counter.li.org/)
    Slackware - Because I know what I'm doing.


  10. Re: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    On 3 Dec 2003 14:27:04 -0800, pulapka-google@yahoo.com (Tomasz Popik) wrote:

    > I was waiting for serius replays, not just a joke. I can give you
    > right, slackware is one of odldest distribution, but badly supported.


    .... that is an *utterly* false statement.

    > All stuff and kernel goes very late.


    .... you're way off-base

    > Every other distr. have fast
    > update. Next is that slackware have not RPM or DEB packages.


    ?!??!?!?

    > Next is that number of web pages


    ..... silly statement and measure of anything worthwhile
    ..
    --
    /// Michael J. Tobler: motorcyclist, surfer, skydiver, \\\
    \\\ and author: "Inside Linux", "C++ HowTo", "C++ Unleashed" ///
    A sine curve goes off to infinity or at least the end of
    the blackboard - Prof. Steiner

  11. Re: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    Lew Pitcher wrote in message news:<3ttoqb.put.ln@merlin.l6s4x6-4.ca>...
    > Tomasz Popik wrote:
    > [snip]
    >
    > > But o keep my word that there is no packages system like RPM or DEP?!

    >
    > As I said before, "Bull****"
    >
    > This from my admittedly *backlevel* Slackware installation
    >
    > /var/adm/packages $ more rpm-4.0.2-i386-6
    > PACKAGE NAME: rpm-4.0.2-i386-6
    > COMPRESSED PACKAGE SIZE: 2118 K
    > UNCOMPRESSED PACKAGE SIZE: 5250 K
    > PACKAGE LOCATION: /mnt/cdrom/slackware/ap/rpm-4.0.2-i386-6.tgz
    > PACKAGE DESCRIPTION:
    > rpm: rpm
    > rpm:
    > rpm: RPM is a tool from Red Hat Software used to install and remove
    > rpm: packages in the .rpm format. When installing RPM packages on
    > rpm: Slackware, you may need to use the --nodeps and --force options.
    > rpm: Before installing any binary package, it's wise to examine it to
    > rpm: see what it's going to do, and if it will overwrite any files. You
    > rpm: can use rpm2tgz to convert .rpm packages to .tgz packages so you
    > rpm: can look them over.
    > rpm:
    > rpm:
    >
    >
    > And, for that matter, the Slackware "pkgtool" package management system is
    > still alive and well, and works extremely well, especially for those who "dont
    > trust any wizzards or autocreators", who "do all from text console and
    > vi/mc/pico" and are looking for the "best ''hand configurable'' distribution".
    > Know anyone like that?



    Do pkgtool have dependences? What type of dependences?

    You have focused on package managment, why else slackware is so good?

    How fast developers respont to vulnerabilities?

    Do it uses security politics, what it is?

  12. Re: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    Tomasz Popik wrote:
    [snip]
    > So, here is strong recomendation of using Slackware, can someone show
    > me WHY?!



    Article: Three Months with Slackware Linux 9.1
    http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5307

    Other Slackware articles there as well

    --
    Lew Pitcher

    Master Codewright and JOAT-in-training
    Registered Linux User #112576 (http://counter.li.org/)
    Slackware - Because I know what I'm doing.


  13. Re: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    Yes, i have read that URL what you gave! Very interesting, but not so
    much for server-wanted infos. Just nothing about server installation
    or development, just end-user desciption. I take it as recomendation,
    a look closer at this distro.

    But Lew, you are not the person who write much? - it apply to others
    on the this follo up - anyone can give longer description of
    slackware, longer that 1-3 lines?

    Can you point me to URLs which you dayly use : bugs, fresh software,
    news, packages - that i can imagine whole thing around slackware.



    Lew Pitcher wrote in message news:...
    > Tomasz Popik wrote:
    > [snip]
    > > So, here is strong recomendation of using Slackware, can someone show
    > > me WHY?!

    >
    >
    > Article: Three Months with Slackware Linux 9.1
    > http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5307
    >
    > Other Slackware articles there as well


  14. Re: Most popular question : which Server Linux ?

    Tomasz Popik wrote:
    > Lew Pitcher wrote in message news:<3ttoqb.put.ln@merlin.l6s4x6-4.ca>...
    >
    >>Tomasz Popik wrote:
    >>[snip]
    >>
    >>
    >>>But o keep my word that there is no packages system like RPM or DEP?!

    >>
    >>As I said before, "Bull****"
    >>
    >>This from my admittedly *backlevel* Slackware installation
    >>
    >> /var/adm/packages $ more rpm-4.0.2-i386-6
    >> PACKAGE NAME: rpm-4.0.2-i386-6
    >> COMPRESSED PACKAGE SIZE: 2118 K
    >> UNCOMPRESSED PACKAGE SIZE: 5250 K
    >> PACKAGE LOCATION: /mnt/cdrom/slackware/ap/rpm-4.0.2-i386-6.tgz
    >> PACKAGE DESCRIPTION:
    >> rpm: rpm
    >> rpm:
    >> rpm: RPM is a tool from Red Hat Software used to install and remove
    >> rpm: packages in the .rpm format. When installing RPM packages on
    >> rpm: Slackware, you may need to use the --nodeps and --force options.
    >> rpm: Before installing any binary package, it's wise to examine it to
    >> rpm: see what it's going to do, and if it will overwrite any files. You
    >> rpm: can use rpm2tgz to convert .rpm packages to .tgz packages so you
    >> rpm: can look them over.
    >> rpm:
    >> rpm:
    >>
    >>
    >>And, for that matter, the Slackware "pkgtool" package management system is
    >>still alive and well, and works extremely well, especially for those who "dont
    >>trust any wizzards or autocreators", who "do all from text console and
    >>vi/mc/pico" and are looking for the "best ''hand configurable'' distribution".
    >>Know anyone like that?

    >
    >
    >
    > Do pkgtool have dependences? What type of dependences?


    Yes and no. The pkgtool toolset doesn't perform dependancy checking; that's
    the job of the sysadm toolset. Fortunately, every Slackware installation comes
    with a sysadm.

    FWIW, I see a change in direction of your inquiry. At first, you wanted a
    Linux distribution that would be good on a server. Your criteria included
    1) a large documentation base,
    2) a large range of supported hardware,
    3) readily available bug solutions and errata,
    4) a strong security implementation, and
    5) easy customization.

    To this you added that you don't trust "wizzards or autocreators" and prefer
    to perform your system administration from a text console, using text editor
    tools. You said that you were looking for the best "hand configurable"
    distribution.

    Now, you are talking about requirements that diminish your control over the
    system. You seem to be asking specifically /for/ "wizards and autocreators"
    (that's what dependancy enforcement components are), and you seem to be
    backing away from a system that is "hand configurable".

    It's your choice; I don't care /which/ system you finally select.

    > You have focused on package managment,


    No, I haven't. I've responded to your incorrect implication that Slackware
    lacks package management tools, and /specifically/ your erroneous assertion
    that Slackware lacks /RPM/.

    > why else slackware is so good?


    1) It's compiled for the lowest-common denominator system, and thus can be
    installed on pretty much /any/ x86 hardware

    2) It's built from proven stock components; there are no unproven
    bleeding-edge components to fail at inoportune times

    3) It's stable; you don't /have/ to change a Slackware system much in order to
    keep up with current software or hardware.

    4) It's hand configurable. It doesn't need special tools (like RPM or Yast) in
    order to set it up. It can be set up entirely from a text console with nothing
    more than /bin/bash as the core tool

    5) It's fast, even on old machines. It doesn't load the user down with bloated
    software.

    6) It's well supported. Most of the standard HOWTO material and quite a number
    of books were/are written for use on Slackware systems.

    7) Even with competition from the "high profile" distibutions, Slackware still
    makes a profit. The company is solvant and there are no signs that it will go
    out of business or change their business model. This means that corporate
    support is always available, and can be counted on.

    8) It can be configured for any use. It is not restricted to just one mode of
    operation; support is available for Slackware no matter /how/ you run it.
    FWIW, I run two servers, one desktop, and one laptop under Slackware Linux.

    9) I can go on, but why bother.

    > How fast developers respont to vulnerabilities?


    Usually within days (worst case a week) of announcement of vunerability. For
    instance, while Slackware usually ships only with stock kernel.org kernels,
    Slackware 9.0 shipped with a patched 2.4.21 kernel. The patch was part of the
    upcoming (at that time) official 2.4.22 kernel patch kit and fixed a
    vunerability in the security of the kernel. /As soon as/ the kernel.org 2.4.22
    kernel source was released, Slackware released an upgraded kernel 2.4.22 for
    Slackware 9.0. Recently, it was announced that kernels below 2.4.23 had a
    local exploit; /as soon as/ that exploit was announced, Slackware released a
    kernel.org 2.4.23 kernel for it's distributions. The next day, they also
    released a new rsync package that fixed the just announced exploit that had
    permitted hackers to take advantage of the 2.4.22 exploit on the (IIRC) Debian
    distribution servers.


    > Do it uses security politics, what it is?


    First off, it doesn't use security components that have inherent flaws in them
    (i.e. PAM). Secondly, it /does/ use proven security systems. Thirdly, it
    /requires/ the involvement of the sysadm; human eyes setting human policies.
    I'm sure that you can find out more about Slackware from either /actually
    using/ it, or at least checking out the resources.

    Try
    http://www.slackware.com/
    or even
    news:alt.os.linux.slackware


    --
    Lew Pitcher

    Master Codewright and JOAT-in-training
    Registered Linux User #112576 (http://counter.li.org/)
    Slackware - Because I know what I'm doing.


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