CD images, ISO - Powerpc

This is a discussion on CD images, ISO - Powerpc ; I have scratched the first CD in my set to the point where it is mostly unuseable for installation. I downloaded an image that I am reasonable certain would be a replacement for the one I ruined. When I try ...

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  1. CD images, ISO

    I have scratched the first CD in my set to the point where it is mostly
    unuseable for installation. I downloaded an image that I am reasonable
    certain would be a replacement for the one I ruined. When I try to
    extract the image to copy the files and burn a new CD, the files come
    out with ISO filenames, ie, all caps and truncated. I feel certain that
    the linux installer will not be able to find the files in this format.
    Does anyone know how to extract them without changing the names?
    Copying the image intact gives exactly that: a single file on the CD.
    (Or at least that seems like what will happen, I haven't actually burned
    one that way.)
    Also, downloading the image in the first place was a bit of a
    challenge. First I tried with Mozilla and it kept running out of memory
    in the desktop file even though I had redirected the file to a much
    larger partition with plenty of space. Next I lowered myself to using
    Explorer (5.1). It downloaded the file just fine but it was then that I
    realized that the filenames had been changed. I thought maybe it was
    Explorer that had somehow 'adjusted' things. I booted from a larger
    partition and used Mozilla one more time. This time I got it downloaded
    to my desktop with a gibberish name. It opened with Disk Copy but once
    again the filenames were all ISO. That is what led me to believe that
    it was Disk Copy that was changing things. Thanks in advance for any
    expertise that can be lent.
    Keith


  2. Re: CD images, ISO

    In article <10n8qd231kbkg46@corp.supernews.com>,
    Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >
    > I have scratched the first CD in my set to the point where it is mostly
    > unuseable for installation. I downloaded an image that I am reasonable
    > certain would be a replacement for the one I ruined. When I try to
    > extract the image to copy the files and burn a new CD


    Don't try it that way. Download the image file and burn it straight to
    CD-R *AS AN IMAGE FILE* (that is, do *NOT* burn a CD with a single big
    file). You can do this directly with cdrecord, or most GUI CD-R tools have
    an option to burn a CD-R from an image file. If you need more help on
    this, post with information on the CD-R software you're using.

    --
    Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
    http://www.rodsbooks.com
    Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

  3. Re: CD images, ISO

    Rod Smith wrote:
    > In article <10n8qd231kbkg46@corp.supernews.com>,
    > Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >
    >>I have scratched the first CD in my set to the point where it is mostly
    >>unuseable for installation. I downloaded an image that I am reasonable
    >>certain would be a replacement for the one I ruined. When I try to
    >>extract the image to copy the files and burn a new CD

    >
    >
    > Don't try it that way. Download the image file and burn it straight to
    > CD-R *AS AN IMAGE FILE* (that is, do *NOT* burn a CD with a single big
    > file). You can do this directly with cdrecord, or most GUI CD-R tools have
    > an option to burn a CD-R from an image file. If you need more help on
    > this, post with information on the CD-R software you're using.
    >

    Actually burning a single big file was about the only option I had not
    tried. The file I have downloaded has a garbage title and a generic
    icon but Disk Copy will open it and create an image. The problem is
    that all the files and folders in the image are named to ISO standards
    rather than something that Linux would understand. I am not sure when
    this happens, in Disk Copy, probably. I tried just now to create an
    image from the file with my burner software (Discribe) and it wouldn't
    read the file. Thanks for your suggestion though. The real filenames
    are saved in each directory in a file called TABLE, something or
    another. Seems like there should be some way to reconstruct it. I am
    guessing that the files themselves have not been altered, only the
    names. Renaming a couple thousand files by hand is not something I am
    prepared to do.


  4. Re: CD images, ISO

    Keith Krehbiel wrote:
    > icon but Disk Copy will open it and create an image. The problem is
    > that all the files and folders in the image are named to ISO standards
    > rather than something that Linux would understand.


    the standard file system on cd's is iso9660. this is a limited filesystem,
    with e.g. something similar to the 8.3 naming limit that the original msdos
    fs has. to overcome these limitations, several extensions were developed,
    the most common ones being joliet (used by MS) and rock ridge (used by
    linux). linux can read both extensions, but only when the kernel is
    configured to do so.

    i suspect that somewhere here lies your problem.

    --
    Joost Kremers joostkremers@yahoo.com
    Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
    EN:SiS(9)

  5. Re: CD images, ISO

    In article <10nauqnmnkt6g35@corp.supernews.com>,
    Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >
    > Rod Smith wrote:
    >> In article <10n8qd231kbkg46@corp.supernews.com>,
    >> Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >>
    >>>I have scratched the first CD in my set to the point where it is mostly
    >>>unuseable for installation. I downloaded an image that I am reasonable
    >>>certain would be a replacement for the one I ruined. When I try to
    >>>extract the image to copy the files and burn a new CD

    >>
    >> Don't try it that way. Download the image file and burn it straight to
    >> CD-R *AS AN IMAGE FILE* (that is, do *NOT* burn a CD with a single big
    >> file). You can do this directly with cdrecord, or most GUI CD-R tools have
    >> an option to burn a CD-R from an image file. If you need more help on
    >> this, post with information on the CD-R software you're using.
    >>

    > Actually burning a single big file was about the only option I had not
    > tried. The file I have downloaded has a garbage title and a generic
    > icon but Disk Copy will open it and create an image. The problem is
    > that all the files and folders in the image are named to ISO standards
    > rather than something that Linux would understand.


    The CD-R image file is a complete ISO-9660 filesystem in a single file.
    The Disk Copy tool just accesses that filesystem the way a Mac normally
    does, except from the file rather than from an actual CD-ROM. The
    filesystem image is almost certainly ISO-9660 with Rock Ridge extensions,
    which means that it *DOES* have long filenames, but they're encoded via
    Rock Ridge, which pre-X versions of MacOS can't understand. (Mac disc
    images will be either HFS or ISO-9660 plus HFS, so Macs will see HFS long
    filenames.) All of this is irrelevant once the CD-R is created correctly,
    because what you should do is find a way to burn the image to disc
    without adding it in a wrapper filesystem. That is, the usual way to
    create a CD-R is to take files from a disk directory, wrap them in an
    ISO-9660 filesystem (often plus other options), and write that created
    filesystem to the CD-R. What you want to do is to write the file to disc
    *WITHOUT* first wrapping it in an ISO-9660 filesystem, because the image
    file *IS* an ISO-9660 filesystem.

    > I tried just now to create an
    > image from the file with my burner software (Discribe) and it wouldn't
    > read the file. Thanks for your suggestion though.


    I'm afraid I'm not familiar with Discribe, so I can't tell you precisely
    how to do what's needed with it, or even if it's possible -- it's
    conceivable that Discribe is crippled and lacks the necessary option. Look
    for something called "burn from image file," "create CD-R from ISO image,"
    or something similar. You don't want to *CREATE* an image file -- you've
    already got one. You want to COPY that existing image file to disc.

    If Discribe is so crippled that it won't do what you need, you might look
    into other software. I'm not familiar with MacOS options, so I can't point
    you to specific products, but there's got to be something that'll do the
    job. If you've already installed Linux and can access the file from Linux,
    just use cdrecord to burn the image file to CD-R from Linux.

    > The real filenames
    > are saved in each directory in a file called TABLE, something or
    > another.


    This is a common practice when using certain Unix/Linux CD-R creation
    tools. Placing the long filenames in a special files enables users of OSs
    that can't read them to figure out what's what. You can and should ignore
    this detail, along with everything you see when accessing the file with
    Disk Copy, because using Disk Copy as any part of this process is the
    wrong approach -- or at the very least, it's the way-too-hard approach.

    > Seems like there should be some way to reconstruct it.


    In theory, yes. Reconstruction is the wrong approach, though; it's like
    trying to pick all the toppings off of a pizza to make a sandwich from
    them, when a sandwich just like the one you want to make is sitting right
    next to the pizza. Only multiply that by a thousandfold. ;-)

    --
    Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
    http://www.rodsbooks.com
    Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

  6. Re: CD images, ISO

    Rod Smith wrote:
    > In article <10nauqnmnkt6g35@corp.supernews.com>,
    > Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >
    >>Rod Smith wrote:
    >>
    >>>In article <10n8qd231kbkg46@corp.supernews.com>,
    >>> Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I have scratched the first CD in my set to the point where it is mostly
    >>>>unuseable for installation. I downloaded an image that I am reasonable
    >>>>certain would be a replacement for the one I ruined. When I try to
    >>>>extract the image to copy the files and burn a new CD
    >>>
    >>>Don't try it that way. Download the image file and burn it straight to
    >>>CD-R *AS AN IMAGE FILE* (that is, do *NOT* burn a CD with a single big
    >>>file). You can do this directly with cdrecord, or most GUI CD-R tools have
    >>>an option to burn a CD-R from an image file. If you need more help on
    >>>this, post with information on the CD-R software you're using.
    >>>

    >>
    >>Actually burning a single big file was about the only option I had not
    >>tried. The file I have downloaded has a garbage title and a generic
    >>icon but Disk Copy will open it and create an image. The problem is
    >>that all the files and folders in the image are named to ISO standards
    >>rather than something that Linux would understand.

    >
    >
    > The CD-R image file is a complete ISO-9660 filesystem in a single file.
    > The Disk Copy tool just accesses that filesystem the way a Mac normally
    > does, except from the file rather than from an actual CD-ROM. The
    > filesystem image is almost certainly ISO-9660 with Rock Ridge extensions,
    > which means that it *DOES* have long filenames, but they're encoded via
    > Rock Ridge, which pre-X versions of MacOS can't understand. (Mac disc
    > images will be either HFS or ISO-9660 plus HFS, so Macs will see HFS long
    > filenames.) All of this is irrelevant once the CD-R is created correctly,
    > because what you should do is find a way to burn the image to disc
    > without adding it in a wrapper filesystem. That is, the usual way to
    > create a CD-R is to take files from a disk directory, wrap them in an
    > ISO-9660 filesystem (often plus other options), and write that created
    > filesystem to the CD-R. What you want to do is to write the file to disc
    > *WITHOUT* first wrapping it in an ISO-9660 filesystem, because the image
    > file *IS* an ISO-9660 filesystem.
    >
    >
    >>I tried just now to create an
    >>image from the file with my burner software (Discribe) and it wouldn't
    >>read the file. Thanks for your suggestion though.

    >
    >
    > I'm afraid I'm not familiar with Discribe, so I can't tell you precisely
    > how to do what's needed with it, or even if it's possible -- it's
    > conceivable that Discribe is crippled and lacks the necessary option. Look
    > for something called "burn from image file," "create CD-R from ISO image,"
    > or something similar. You don't want to *CREATE* an image file -- you've
    > already got one. You want to COPY that existing image file to disc.
    >
    > If Discribe is so crippled that it won't do what you need, you might look
    > into other software. I'm not familiar with MacOS options, so I can't point
    > you to specific products, but there's got to be something that'll do the
    > job. If you've already installed Linux and can access the file from Linux,
    > just use cdrecord to burn the image file to CD-R from Linux.
    >
    >
    >>The real filenames
    >>are saved in each directory in a file called TABLE, something or
    >>another.

    >
    >
    > This is a common practice when using certain Unix/Linux CD-R creation
    > tools. Placing the long filenames in a special files enables users of OSs
    > that can't read them to figure out what's what. You can and should ignore
    > this detail, along with everything you see when accessing the file with
    > Disk Copy, because using Disk Copy as any part of this process is the
    > wrong approach -- or at the very least, it's the way-too-hard approach.
    >
    >
    >>Seems like there should be some way to reconstruct it.

    >
    >
    > In theory, yes. Reconstruction is the wrong approach, though; it's like
    > trying to pick all the toppings off of a pizza to make a sandwich from
    > them, when a sandwich just like the one you want to make is sitting right
    > next to the pizza. Only multiply that by a thousandfold. ;-)
    >


    Thanks for your reply. I finally applied some repair goop to my
    original disk and was able to get a decent install. From the error
    messages I was able to determine that at least part of the corruption
    happens in the /x directory in /pool.
    I have, so far, not found a way to access disks other than the system
    disk from inside linux. I am not sure if I have something wrong with
    the system or if it is an operator malfunction. At least this time I
    have emacs and am learning to use it. Several of my attempts to install
    omitted emacs and that was one of the reasons to reinstall: to get a
    tool to examine a few things.
    One of the things I have done is to start using a rewriteable disk so I
    don't burn a coaster every time.
    Don't try it that way. Download the image file and burn it straight to

    >>>CD-R *AS AN IMAGE FILE* (that is, do *NOT* burn a CD with a single big
    >>>file). You can do this directly with cdrecord, or most GUI CD-R

    tools have
    >>>an option to burn a CD-R from an image file.


    Discribe has an option to copy CD/DVD. I will try that next. It sounds
    like what you were describing. I am able to copy the image into the
    buffer in almost any format I have tried but I don't remember if I have
    burnt a disc that way. I am sure I have not tried the copy CD/DVD
    function yet.
    Any suggestions on reading 'foreign' devices from within linux?
    Thanks again for your help. It was most informative.
    Keith


  7. Re: CD images, ISO

    In article <10nskv5s3g7ps8b@corp.supernews.com>,
    Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >
    > I have, so far, not found a way to access disks other than the system
    > disk from inside linux. I am not sure if I have something wrong with
    > the system or if it is an operator malfunction.


    You might try posting details of what you've tried and what error messages
    you get under an appropriately-titled thread. My initial guess is that
    you're trying to mount HFS+ partitions, and Linux lacks support for HFS+.
    (So far; I believe it's being worked on, although I've not looked into
    this recently.) It could also be that you're just trying the wrong
    partition numbers.

    > At least this time I
    > have emacs and am learning to use it. Several of my attempts to install
    > omitted emacs and that was one of the reasons to reinstall: to get a
    > tool to examine a few things.


    That's overkill. If you omit a package during the initial install, you can
    simply install that package later. I went back and skimmed your earlier
    posts, but didn't see mention of what Linux distribution you're using, so
    I can't provide specific instructions. In any event, it's usually easier
    to fix an existing Linux installation than to re-install it.

    > Discribe has an option to copy CD/DVD. I will try that next. It sounds
    > like what you were describing.


    CD-R software "copy" options usually expect to copy from one physical
    medium to another, rather than from an image file to CD-R. I'm not
    familiar with Discribe specifically, though, so I can't promise that this
    isn't where the image copy option is located.

    --
    Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
    http://www.rodsbooks.com
    Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

  8. Re: CD images, ISO

    I am using Debian from a set of disks from Edmunds Enterprises of
    America. I am sure that I am not trying to access HFS+. It could very
    well be that I am trying to access the wrong partition numbers. I have
    had very limited success trying read the directory structure from within
    linux. I know that part of it is ignorance on my part. I have seen in
    threads that the error output can be directed to a file and the file
    then can be read and posted but I have not been able to complete the
    circle there. At this point I have not tried to install any sort of
    internet access onto linux. I figured to try to get the os working
    first. Maybe that is a mistake. Chalk it up to the simple mind.

    snip>That's overkill. If you omit a package during the initial install,
    you can
    simply install that package later. I agree wholeheartedly that it is overkill. The reason I have found it
    necessary is that the only time I can access the installation library is
    from the initial installer and from the first boot following
    installation. In subsequent sessions I cannot access anything that is
    not on the boot partition and that includes the distribution CDs which I
    am relatively certain are not HFS+. The error I get at that point is
    that the file/directory I am trying to access does not exist. I have
    even tried to access another linux hard drive and that fails to work. Go
    figure. The first appears to be HFS or at least partially HFS and the
    remaining disks appear to be ISO9660, at least from MacOS.
    I tried the CD Copy function but, as you said, it expects a CD to be
    read and then written to a blank. I did, however, burn a disk with the
    image I had downloaded. I have not yet tried to read it from linux but
    the image opens from MacOS to look like the original disk that I had
    damaged. This is after opening the image. Opening the disk shows the
    image, not the directory structure as on the original.
    I tore down my system to move it out of the way after I installed the
    last time. Upon reassembling it in a different location I have not been
    able to boot again. This is a Mac problem not linux. I just have to
    remember which spell to cast to get it going again.
    Thank you for your help. I am sure that a lot of my trouble is caused
    by plain ignorance on my part.
    Keith

    Rod Smith wrote:
    > In article <10nskv5s3g7ps8b@corp.supernews.com>,
    > Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >
    >>I have, so far, not found a way to access disks other than the system
    >>disk from inside linux. I am not sure if I have something wrong with
    >>the system or if it is an operator malfunction.

    >
    >
    > You might try posting details of what you've tried and what error messages
    > you get under an appropriately-titled thread. My initial guess is that
    > you're trying to mount HFS+ partitions, and Linux lacks support for HFS+.
    > (So far; I believe it's being worked on, although I've not looked into
    > this recently.) It could also be that you're just trying the wrong
    > partition numbers.
    >
    >
    >>At least this time I
    >>have emacs and am learning to use it. Several of my attempts to install
    >>omitted emacs and that was one of the reasons to reinstall: to get a
    >>tool to examine a few things.

    >
    >
    > That's overkill. If you omit a package during the initial install, you can
    > simply install that package later. I went back and skimmed your earlier
    > posts, but didn't see mention of what Linux distribution you're using, so
    > I can't provide specific instructions. In any event, it's usually easier
    > to fix an existing Linux installation than to re-install it.
    >
    >
    >>Discribe has an option to copy CD/DVD. I will try that next. It sounds
    >>like what you were describing.

    >
    >
    > CD-R software "copy" options usually expect to copy from one physical
    > medium to another, rather than from an image file to CD-R. I'm not
    > familiar with Discribe specifically, though, so I can't promise that this
    > isn't where the image copy option is located.
    >



  9. Re: CD images, ISO


    Again you gave us very little information.
    exactly what command did you run to try to mount the disks?
    Exactly what is the content of the /etc/fstab file?

    What happens when you try
    mount -a
    after you have logged on as root?
    Give all output from that command.

    What is the output when you type
    df

    What happens if you type
    mount /mnt/cdrom
    ?

    If that does not work, what happens when you type
    mount /dev/hdc /mnt/cdrom

    and then, if there is no error messages
    ls /mnt/cdrom



    Keith Krehbiel writes:

    ]I am using Debian from a set of disks from Edmunds Enterprises of
    ]America. I am sure that I am not trying to access HFS+. It could very
    ]well be that I am trying to access the wrong partition numbers. I have
    ]had very limited success trying read the directory structure from within
    ]linux. I know that part of it is ignorance on my part. I have seen in
    ]threads that the error output can be directed to a file and the file
    ]then can be read and posted but I have not been able to complete the
    ]circle there. At this point I have not tried to install any sort of
    ]internet access onto linux. I figured to try to get the os working
    ]first. Maybe that is a mistake. Chalk it up to the simple mind.

    ]snip>That's overkill. If you omit a package during the initial install,
    ]you can
    ]simply install that package later. ]I agree wholeheartedly that it is overkill. The reason I have found it
    ]necessary is that the only time I can access the installation library is
    ]from the initial installer and from the first boot following
    ]installation. In subsequent sessions I cannot access anything that is
    ]not on the boot partition and that includes the distribution CDs which I
    ]am relatively certain are not HFS+. The error I get at that point is
    ]that the file/directory I am trying to access does not exist. I have
    ]even tried to access another linux hard drive and that fails to work. Go
    ]figure. The first appears to be HFS or at least partially HFS and the
    ]remaining disks appear to be ISO9660, at least from MacOS.
    ]I tried the CD Copy function but, as you said, it expects a CD to be
    ]read and then written to a blank. I did, however, burn a disk with the
    ]image I had downloaded. I have not yet tried to read it from linux but
    ]the image opens from MacOS to look like the original disk that I had
    ]damaged. This is after opening the image. Opening the disk shows the
    ]image, not the directory structure as on the original.
    ]I tore down my system to move it out of the way after I installed the
    ]last time. Upon reassembling it in a different location I have not been
    ]able to boot again. This is a Mac problem not linux. I just have to
    ]remember which spell to cast to get it going again.
    ]Thank you for your help. I am sure that a lot of my trouble is caused
    ]by plain ignorance on my part.
    ]Keith

    ]Rod Smith wrote:
    ]> In article <10nskv5s3g7ps8b@corp.supernews.com>,
    ]> Keith Krehbiel writes:
    ]>
    ]>>I have, so far, not found a way to access disks other than the system
    ]>>disk from inside linux. I am not sure if I have something wrong with
    ]>>the system or if it is an operator malfunction.
    ]>
    ]>
    ]> You might try posting details of what you've tried and what error messages
    ]> you get under an appropriately-titled thread. My initial guess is that
    ]> you're trying to mount HFS+ partitions, and Linux lacks support for HFS+.
    ]> (So far; I believe it's being worked on, although I've not looked into
    ]> this recently.) It could also be that you're just trying the wrong
    ]> partition numbers.
    ]>
    ]>
    ]>>At least this time I
    ]>>have emacs and am learning to use it. Several of my attempts to install
    ]>>omitted emacs and that was one of the reasons to reinstall: to get a
    ]>>tool to examine a few things.
    ]>
    ]>
    ]> That's overkill. If you omit a package during the initial install, you can
    ]> simply install that package later. I went back and skimmed your earlier
    ]> posts, but didn't see mention of what Linux distribution you're using, so
    ]> I can't provide specific instructions. In any event, it's usually easier
    ]> to fix an existing Linux installation than to re-install it.
    ]>
    ]>
    ]>>Discribe has an option to copy CD/DVD. I will try that next. It sounds
    ]>>like what you were describing.
    ]>
    ]>
    ]> CD-R software "copy" options usually expect to copy from one physical
    ]> medium to another, rather than from an image file to CD-R. I'm not
    ]> familiar with Discribe specifically, though, so I can't promise that this
    ]> isn't where the image copy option is located.
    ]>


  10. Re: CD images, ISO

    Bill Unruh wrote:
    > Again you gave us very little information.
    > exactly what command did you run to try to mount the disks?
    > Exactly what is the content of the /etc/fstab file?


    I have not looked there yet, didn't know to look.


    > What happens when you try
    > mount -a
    > after you have logged on as root?
    > Give all output from that command.


    I have not tried that either. I hope you don't mean for me to type the
    output verbatim. That is what it will require to give what you ask for
    at this point.

    > What is the output when you type
    > df

    see above.


    > What happens if you type
    > mount /mnt/cdrom
    > ?

    ditto

    > If that does not work, what happens when you type
    > mount /dev/hdc /mnt/cdrom


    same
    > and then, if there is no error messages
    > ls /mnt/cdrom


    ls usually returns no error but merely echoes what the pathlist I had typed.

    I will try to get it all running again and do the things you suggested.
    I think it is probably all good advice.
    Thanks

    >
    >
    > Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >
    > ]I am using Debian from a set of disks from Edmunds Enterprises of
    > ]America. I am sure that I am not trying to access HFS+. It could very
    > ]well be that I am trying to access the wrong partition numbers. I have
    > ]had very limited success trying read the directory structure from within
    > ]linux. I know that part of it is ignorance on my part. I have seen in
    > ]threads that the error output can be directed to a file and the file
    > ]then can be read and posted but I have not been able to complete the
    > ]circle there. At this point I have not tried to install any sort of
    > ]internet access onto linux. I figured to try to get the os working
    > ]first. Maybe that is a mistake. Chalk it up to the simple mind.
    >
    > ]snip>That's overkill. If you omit a package during the initial install,
    > ]you can
    > ]simply install that package later. > ]I agree wholeheartedly that it is overkill. The reason I have found it
    > ]necessary is that the only time I can access the installation library is
    > ]from the initial installer and from the first boot following
    > ]installation. In subsequent sessions I cannot access anything that is
    > ]not on the boot partition and that includes the distribution CDs which I
    > ]am relatively certain are not HFS+. The error I get at that point is
    > ]that the file/directory I am trying to access does not exist. I have
    > ]even tried to access another linux hard drive and that fails to work. Go
    > ]figure. The first appears to be HFS or at least partially HFS and the
    > ]remaining disks appear to be ISO9660, at least from MacOS.
    > ]I tried the CD Copy function but, as you said, it expects a CD to be
    > ]read and then written to a blank. I did, however, burn a disk with the
    > ]image I had downloaded. I have not yet tried to read it from linux but
    > ]the image opens from MacOS to look like the original disk that I had
    > ]damaged. This is after opening the image. Opening the disk shows the
    > ]image, not the directory structure as on the original.
    > ]I tore down my system to move it out of the way after I installed the
    > ]last time. Upon reassembling it in a different location I have not been
    > ]able to boot again. This is a Mac problem not linux. I just have to
    > ]remember which spell to cast to get it going again.
    > ]Thank you for your help. I am sure that a lot of my trouble is caused
    > ]by plain ignorance on my part.
    > ]Keith
    >
    > ]Rod Smith wrote:
    > ]> In article <10nskv5s3g7ps8b@corp.supernews.com>,
    > ]> Keith Krehbiel writes:
    > ]> ]>>I have, so far, not found a way to access disks other than the system
    > ]>>disk from inside linux. I am not sure if I have something wrong with
    > ]>>the system or if it is an operator malfunction.
    > ]> ]> ]> You might try posting details of what you've tried and what error messages
    > ]> you get under an appropriately-titled thread. My initial guess is that
    > ]> you're trying to mount HFS+ partitions, and Linux lacks support for HFS+.
    > ]> (So far; I believe it's being worked on, although I've not looked into
    > ]> this recently.) It could also be that you're just trying the wrong
    > ]> partition numbers.
    > ]> ]> ]>>At least this time I
    > ]>>have emacs and am learning to use it. Several of my attempts to install
    > ]>>omitted emacs and that was one of the reasons to reinstall: to get a
    > ]>>tool to examine a few things.
    > ]> ]> ]> That's overkill. If you omit a package during the initial install, you can
    > ]> simply install that package later. I went back and skimmed your earlier
    > ]> posts, but didn't see mention of what Linux distribution you're using, so
    > ]> I can't provide specific instructions. In any event, it's usually easier
    > ]> to fix an existing Linux installation than to re-install it.
    > ]> ]> ]>>Discribe has an option to copy CD/DVD. I will try that next. It sounds
    > ]>>like what you were describing.
    > ]> ]> ]> CD-R software "copy" options usually expect to copy from one physical
    > ]> medium to another, rather than from an image file to CD-R. I'm not
    > ]> familiar with Discribe specifically, though, so I can't promise that this
    > ]> isn't where the image copy option is located.
    > ]>



  11. Re: CD images, ISO

    On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 14:32:58 -0600,
    Keith Krehbiel , in
    <10od7bstae95a4f@corp.supernews.com> wrote:
    >+ Bill Unruh wrote:


    >+ > What happens when you try
    >+ > mount -a
    >+ > after you have logged on as root?
    >+ > Give all output from that command.
    >+
    >+ I have not tried that either. I hope you don't mean for me to type the
    >+ output verbatim. That is what it will require to give what you ask for
    >+ at this point.


    No, that's why G*d invented redirection...

    # mount -a > ~/mount-output

    Copy and paste (or otherwise insert) the contents of the file
    mount-output.

    You might follow up the "mount -a" with the output of "fdisk -l"
    (so we can see your filesystems):

    # fdisk -l >> ~/mount-output
    ^^append to an existing file, create if necessary

    Simply trim the resulting file, stick it in a post, and send it on.

    James
    --
    Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
    I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
    isn't looking good, either.
    I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

  12. Re: CD images, ISO

    I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
    > On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 14:32:58 -0600,
    > Keith Krehbiel , in
    > <10od7bstae95a4f@corp.supernews.com> wrote:
    >
    >>+ Bill Unruh wrote:

    >
    >
    >>+ > What happens when you try
    >>+ > mount -a
    >>+ > after you have logged on as root?
    >>+ > Give all output from that command.
    >>+
    >>+ I have not tried that either. I hope you don't mean for me to type the
    >>+ output verbatim. That is what it will require to give what you ask for
    >>+ at this point.

    >
    >
    > No, that's why G*d invented redirection...
    >
    > # mount -a > ~/mount-output
    >
    > Copy and paste (or otherwise insert) the contents of the file
    > mount-output.
    >
    > You might follow up the "mount -a" with the output of "fdisk -l"
    > (so we can see your filesystems):
    >
    > # fdisk -l >> ~/mount-output
    > ^^append to an existing file, create if necessary
    >
    > Simply trim the resulting file, stick it in a post, and send it on.
    >
    > James

    Believe it or not, I actually kinda understand output redirection. I
    guess with the current name of the thread it is a little confusing.
    From the file I really have no place to paste. As things currently are
    I am communicating from another computer running MacOS 9.1. One of the
    several problems I am having is accessing disks/files/devices, etc. from
    linux. Not sure if I can make text go to MacOS, maybe that would work.
    Thanks for the idea and thank you all for your patience.
    Keith


  13. Re: CD images, ISO

    On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 22:55:01 -0600,
    Keith Krehbiel , in
    <10oe4p5k802it79@corp.supernews.com> wrote:

    >+ From the file I really have no place to paste. As things currently are
    >+ I am communicating from another computer running MacOS 9.1. One of the
    >+ several problems I am having is accessing disks/files/devices, etc. from
    >+ linux.


    Then the first thing you need to look at is the output of 'fdisk
    -l'. It's been a *very*long*time* since I've looked at MacOS9.x, but I
    think the odds are that you have an HFS filesystem. fdisk will give up
    the pertinent information about the current partitions, and tell us
    what it thinks your disk state is. So far as I know, if you have
    HFS+, you're hosed.

    If not, then it should be a matter of figuring out which device is the
    correct partion for MacOS (more than a few kilobytes in size). Then:

    mount -t hfs /dev/hfsfilesystem /somemounpoint

    where "hfsfilesystem" is like "hda6" or "sda5", and "/somemountpoint"
    is an arbritary empty directory. There may be a /mnt directory already
    available. If not, make one. "mkdir /somemountpoint" for instance.

    >+ Not sure if I can make text go to MacOS, maybe that would work.


    Fortunately, text is text, even if it looks a little odd due to the
    niceties of the end-of-record delimiter.

    James
    --
    Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
    I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
    isn't looking good, either.
    I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

  14. Re: CD images, ISO

    I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
    > On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 22:55:01 -0600,
    > Keith Krehbiel , in
    > <10oe4p5k802it79@corp.supernews.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>+ From the file I really have no place to paste. As things currently are
    >>+ I am communicating from another computer running MacOS 9.1. One of the
    >>+ several problems I am having is accessing disks/files/devices, etc. from
    >>+ linux.

    >
    >
    > Then the first thing you need to look at is the output of 'fdisk
    > -l'. It's been a *very*long*time* since I've looked at MacOS9.x, but I
    > think the odds are that you have an HFS filesystem. fdisk will give up
    > the pertinent information about the current partitions, and tell us
    > what it thinks your disk state is. So far as I know, if you have
    > HFS+, you're hosed.
    >
    > If not, then it should be a matter of figuring out which device is the
    > correct partion for MacOS (more than a few kilobytes in size). Then:
    >
    > mount -t hfs /dev/hfsfilesystem /somemounpoint
    >
    > where "hfsfilesystem" is like "hda6" or "sda5", and "/somemountpoint"
    > is an arbritary empty directory. There may be a /mnt directory already
    > available. If not, make one. "mkdir /somemountpoint" for instance.
    >
    >
    >>+ Not sure if I can make text go to MacOS, maybe that would work.

    >
    >
    > Fortunately, text is text, even if it looks a little odd due to the
    > niceties of the end-of-record delimiter.
    >
    > James


    Yes, text is indeed text. One of the problems that is particularly
    vexing for me is an inability to access files of any kind especially if
    they are located on a medium other than the boot partition. This is why
    I have not been able to post the error output, etc. I am online with a
    different computer than has the linux installation and have found NO WAY
    to transfer files of any kind, including text. I am absolutely sure
    that some or most of the problem is my ignorance but some of it may be
    quirks in Linux.

    I did try mount. mount -a /dev/cdrom0 returns the error that the device
    is not found in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab. mount -a /dev/hda6 returns the
    same error and I am running linux from that partition. I will try the
    other suggestions asap.

    I know it must sound like I'm surly but it is from frustration, not
    anger at anyone trying to help.

    I am beginning to think that maybe what I need is a book to learn some
    of this from. From what I have done so far it seems that there is some
    variability in nomenclature of devices, etc. For instance, /dev/cdrom
    would seem to be the cdrom drive but during bootup the term /sdr gets
    used. I have used both terms to try to access the cdrom drive with
    equal lack of success.
    Anyway, thanks for all your help
    Keith


  15. Re: CD images, ISO

    In article <10oliucabu2mjf8@corp.supernews.com>,
    Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >
    > I am online with a
    > different computer than has the linux installation and have found NO WAY
    > to transfer files of any kind, including text. I am absolutely sure
    > that some or most of the problem is my ignorance but some of it may be
    > quirks in Linux.


    There are many ways to transfer text files (or binary files, for that
    matter). What's easiest for you depends on specifics of your
    configuration, your LAN (if you've got one), etc., and you've provided
    very little in the way of information on this. Unfortunately, some of the
    specifics (as others have requested) relate to information in key Linux
    configuration files, which you can't transfer without first overcoming
    this hurdle -- a chicken-and-egg problem. A couple of questions can help,
    though:

    1) Does the system you're trying to debug have a floppy disk? If so,
    you could transfer files via it, using a few commands. (If it's a USB
    floppy, this might be more complex, depending on whether your
    distribution has correctly detected the USB floppy, though.)
    2) Do you have access to a network file server, such as an FTP site? If
    so, you could transfer the files to the FTP server from Linux and then
    download them in another OS.

    > I did try mount. mount -a /dev/cdrom0 returns the error that the device
    > is not found in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab. mount -a /dev/hda6 returns the
    > same error and I am running linux from that partition. I will try the
    > other suggestions asap.


    The "-a" parameter to mount tells the command to mount all the
    filesystems defined in /etc/fstab; you don't normally use it in
    conjunction with a filesystem specification (such as /dev/cdrom0 or
    /dev/hda6). The /etc/fstab file, in turn, defines what Linux devices
    should be mounted at what points, using what options.

    > I am beginning to think that maybe what I need is a book to learn some
    > of this from.


    That or a basic online tutorial. There's lots of Linux documentation at
    http://www.tldp.org, but it's highly variable in quality -- some is quite
    good, some is not so good or is outdated. I haven't read it in depth, but
    glancing at the table of contents, the "Introduction to Linux" guide
    (http://www.tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/index.html) might be helpful.
    I've got information on books (including several that I've written) at
    http://www.rodsbooks.com/books/, but I've not really kept up with the
    introductory market. Among those I've written or co-authored, _Linux
    System Administration_ (with Vicki Stanfield) and _Linux+ Study Guide_
    should be helpful, but you might want something that's a little shorter
    and lower-level than these to get started, and I don't have any specific
    recommendations in that arena.

    > From what I have done so far it seems that there is some
    > variability in nomenclature of devices, etc. For instance, /dev/cdrom
    > would seem to be the cdrom drive but during bootup the term /sdr gets
    > used.


    The CD-ROM is weird. SCSI CD-ROMs are usually /dev/scd0. ATAPI CD-ROMs are
    identified much like hard disks -- usually /dev/hdc, but sometimes
    /dev/hdb, /dev/hdd, or something else; and if SCSI emulation is in use,
    they're /dev/scd0. I've seen a few other device names used on rare
    occasion, but not very often. /dev/cdrom is a partial exception; it's a
    symbolic link that points to the real device name, the idea being to
    provide a standardized name for the system's primary CD-ROM device, no
    matter what the "real" device filename is.

    --
    Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
    http://www.rodsbooks.com
    Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

  16. Re: CD images, ISO

    Rod Smith wrote:
    > In article <10oliucabu2mjf8@corp.supernews.com>,
    > Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >
    >>I am online with a
    >>different computer than has the linux installation and have found NO WAY
    >>to transfer files of any kind, including text. I am absolutely sure
    >>that some or most of the problem is my ignorance but some of it may be
    >>quirks in Linux.

    >
    >
    > There are many ways to transfer text files (or binary files, for that
    > matter). What's easiest for you depends on specifics of your
    > configuration, your LAN (if you've got one), etc., and you've provided
    > very little in the way of information on this. Unfortunately, some of the
    > specifics (as others have requested) relate to information in key Linux
    > configuration files, which you can't transfer without first overcoming
    > this hurdle -- a chicken-and-egg problem. A couple of questions can help,
    > though:
    >
    > 1) Does the system you're trying to debug have a floppy disk? If so,
    > you could transfer files via it, using a few commands. (If it's a USB
    > floppy, this might be more complex, depending on whether your
    > distribution has correctly detected the USB floppy, though.)
    > 2) Do you have access to a network file server, such as an FTP site? If
    > so, you could transfer the files to the FTP server from Linux and then
    > download them in another OS.
    >

    Yes I have a floppy, and also a router that I can hook up to. That
    still doesn't solve the problem of not being able to find any of those
    devices from within the OS. You can see that my ignorance runs deep. I
    have been reading some of the pertinant and not so pertinant man pages
    on the drive. Slowly we learn. One question I have is: Is there a way
    to copy a file? Can it be copied from one medium to another or must it
    be duplicated first and then moved? I know that sounds stupid but it no
    where says that up front. I think part of the disadvantage of starting
    to use linux is that the programmers that have written it know all these
    things and assume everyone else does too. Not trying to complain. It
    does seem to work flawlessly when you know what to tell it.
    I was able to finally get /dev/cdrom into some kind of a device list.
    It now shows up when I 'df'. Dselect still will not find the files it
    wants to see there however. I saw some mention of 'unmount' in some
    manual page but apparantly I don't have it installed. Maybe it doesn't
    exist in this version.
    As always thanks for your patience and helpful responses.
    Keith


    >
    >>I did try mount. mount -a /dev/cdrom0 returns the error that the device
    >>is not found in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab. mount -a /dev/hda6 returns the
    >>same error and I am running linux from that partition. I will try the
    >>other suggestions asap.

    >
    >
    > The "-a" parameter to mount tells the command to mount all the
    > filesystems defined in /etc/fstab; you don't normally use it in
    > conjunction with a filesystem specification (such as /dev/cdrom0 or
    > /dev/hda6). The /etc/fstab file, in turn, defines what Linux devices
    > should be mounted at what points, using what options.
    >
    >
    >>I am beginning to think that maybe what I need is a book to learn some
    >>of this from.

    >
    >
    > That or a basic online tutorial. There's lots of Linux documentation at
    > http://www.tldp.org, but it's highly variable in quality -- some is quite
    > good, some is not so good or is outdated. I haven't read it in depth, but
    > glancing at the table of contents, the "Introduction to Linux" guide
    > (http://www.tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/index.html) might be helpful.
    > I've got information on books (including several that I've written) at
    > http://www.rodsbooks.com/books/, but I've not really kept up with the
    > introductory market. Among those I've written or co-authored, _Linux
    > System Administration_ (with Vicki Stanfield) and _Linux+ Study Guide_
    > should be helpful, but you might want something that's a little shorter
    > and lower-level than these to get started, and I don't have any specific
    > recommendations in that arena.
    >
    >
    >>From what I have done so far it seems that there is some
    >>variability in nomenclature of devices, etc. For instance, /dev/cdrom
    >>would seem to be the cdrom drive but during bootup the term /sdr gets
    >>used.

    >
    >
    > The CD-ROM is weird. SCSI CD-ROMs are usually /dev/scd0. ATAPI CD-ROMs are
    > identified much like hard disks -- usually /dev/hdc, but sometimes
    > /dev/hdb, /dev/hdd, or something else; and if SCSI emulation is in use,
    > they're /dev/scd0. I've seen a few other device names used on rare
    > occasion, but not very often. /dev/cdrom is a partial exception; it's a
    > symbolic link that points to the real device name, the idea being to
    > provide a standardized name for the system's primary CD-ROM device, no
    > matter what the "real" device filename is.
    >



  17. Re: CD images, ISO

    Keith Krehbiel writes:

    ]Rod Smith wrote:
    ]> In article <10oliucabu2mjf8@corp.supernews.com>,
    ]> Keith Krehbiel writes:
    ]>
    ]>>I am online with a
    ]>>different computer than has the linux installation and have found NO WAY
    ]>>to transfer files of any kind, including text. I am absolutely sure
    ]>>that some or most of the problem is my ignorance but some of it may be
    ]>>quirks in Linux.

    cp
    copies files.

    cp filea path/to/file/b

    Transfer files to where? Tell us what you want to do.

    Since millions transfer many many files using linux every day, yes it is
    possible and is not due to any quirks in Linux.

    ]>
    ]Yes I have a floppy, and also a router that I can hook up to. That
    ]still doesn't solve the problem of not being able to find any of those
    ]devices from within the OS. You can see that my ignorance runs deep. I

    What version of Linux are you running?

    ]I was able to finally get /dev/cdrom into some kind of a device list.
    ]It now shows up when I 'df'. Dselect still will not find the files it
    ]wants to see there however. I saw some mention of 'unmount' in some

    umount, not unmount.

    ]manual page but apparantly I don't have it installed. Maybe it doesn't
    ]exist in this version.

  18. Re: CD images, ISO

    Bill Unruh wrote:
    > Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >
    > ]Rod Smith wrote:
    > ]> In article <10oliucabu2mjf8@corp.supernews.com>,
    > ]> Keith Krehbiel writes:
    > ]> ]>>I am online with a
    > ]>>different computer than has the linux installation and have found NO WAY
    > ]>>to transfer files of any kind, including text. I am absolutely sure
    > ]>>that some or most of the problem is my ignorance but some of it may be
    > ]>>quirks in Linux.
    >
    > cp
    > copies files.
    >
    > cp filea path/to/file/b
    >
    > Transfer files to where? Tell us what you want to do.
    >
    > Since millions transfer many many files using linux every day, yes it is
    > possible and is not due to any quirks in Linux.
    >

    Thanks, I knew there had to be a way.

    > ]>
    > ]Yes I have a floppy, and also a router that I can hook up to. That
    > ]still doesn't solve the problem of not being able to find any of those
    > ]devices from within the OS. You can see that my ignorance runs deep. I
    >
    > What version of Linux are you running?
    >

    Debian Woody

    > ]I was able to finally get /dev/cdrom into some kind of a device list.
    > ]It now shows up when I 'df'. Dselect still will not find the files it
    > ]wants to see there however. I saw some mention of 'unmount' in some
    >
    >

    umount, not unmount.
    >

    Ahh, so that's what it is. Thanks again.


    > ]manual pa



    ge but apparantly I don't have it installed. Maybe it doesn't
    > ]exist in this version.



  19. Re: CD images, ISO

    In article <10or2463bkdlf01@corp.supernews.com>,
    Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >
    > Yes I have a floppy, and also a router that I can hook up to. That
    > still doesn't solve the problem of not being able to find any of those
    > devices from within the OS.


    Try putting a pre-formatted FAT floppy disk in the floppy drive and then
    issuing these commands AS ROOT:

    mkdir -p /mnt/floppy
    mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy

    (After the first time, you won't need the first command; it just creates
    the /mnt/floppy directory, which is where the floppy disk is mounted --
    that is, where it's grafted into the Linux directory tree.) The result
    SHOULD BE that the floppy disk's contents appear at /mnt/floppy. If it's
    got files, you should be able to see them with ls. You can then copy files
    to the floppy:

    cp /etc/fstab /mnt/floppy

    When you've copied all the files you need, unmount the floppy:

    umount /mnt/floppy

    Note that "umount" has just one "n" in it.

    If this procedure doesn't work, you could try the mtools package:

    apt-get install mtools
    mcopy /etc/fstab a:

    The apt-get command installs the mtools package on Debian systems. (You
    mentioned dselect later, so I assume you're using Debian or one of its
    derivatives. Thus, apt-get should be available to you. This command may
    ask you to insert a CD-ROM; or it might tell you that mtools is already
    installed.) You must type the apt-get command as root. The mcopy command
    is part of the mtools package, and it works very much like COPY under
    DOS. It lets you move files between the hard disk and a FAT floppy
    without actually mounting the floppy. You might or might not need to be
    root to use mcopy, depending on your device permissions -- but that's an
    fairly advanced topic, so if you try it as an ordinary user and it
    doesn't work, just try it as root, at least for the moment.

    --
    Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
    http://www.rodsbooks.com
    Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

  20. Re: CD images, ISO

    Rod Smith wrote:
    > In article <10or2463bkdlf01@corp.supernews.com>,
    > Keith Krehbiel writes:
    >
    >>Yes I have a floppy, and also a router that I can hook up to. That
    >>still doesn't solve the problem of not being able to find any of those
    >>devices from within the OS.

    >
    >
    > Try putting a pre-formatted FAT floppy disk in the floppy drive and then
    > issuing these commands AS ROOT:
    >
    > mkdir -p /mnt/floppy
    > mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy
    >
    > (After the first time, you won't need the first command; it just creates
    > the /mnt/floppy directory, which is where the floppy disk is mounted --
    > that is, where it's grafted into the Linux directory tree.) The result
    > SHOULD BE that the floppy disk's contents appear at /mnt/floppy. If it's
    > got files, you should be able to see them with ls. You can then copy files
    > to the floppy:
    >
    > cp /etc/fstab /mnt/floppy
    >
    > When you've copied all the files you need, unmount the floppy:
    >
    > umount /mnt/floppy
    >
    > Note that "umount" has just one "n" in it.
    >
    > If this procedure doesn't work, you could try the mtools package:
    >
    > apt-get install mtools
    > mcopy /etc/fstab a:
    >
    > The apt-get command installs the mtools package on Debian systems. (You
    > mentioned dselect later, so I assume you're using Debian or one of its
    > derivatives. Thus, apt-get should be available to you. This command may
    > ask you to insert a CD-ROM; or it might tell you that mtools is already
    > installed.) You must type the apt-get command as root. The mcopy command
    > is part of the mtools package, and it works very much like COPY under
    > DOS. It lets you move files between the hard disk and a FAT floppy
    > without actually mounting the floppy. You might or might not need to be
    > root to use mcopy, depending on your device permissions -- but that's an
    > fairly advanced topic, so if you try it as an ordinary user and it
    > doesn't work, just try it as root, at least for the moment.
    >


    Thanks. That sounds like something to try.
    I have Debian woody. Slowly I am learning my way around it. It goes
    much better with the help of all on here.
    Keith


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