X86 or PowerPc - Powerpc

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Thread: X86 or PowerPc

  1. X86 or PowerPc

    I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
    *a*AthlonXP*3000+*or*a*PowerPC*(PowerMac*G4*or*peg asos).

    *VP

  2. Re: X86 or PowerPc

    On 2004-10-05 20:52:45 -0400, VP said:

    > I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
    > ┬*a┬*AthlonXP┬*3000+┬*or┬*a┬*PowerPC┬*(PowerMac┬*G 4┬*or┬*pegasos).
    >
    > ┬*VP


    I know you've gotten your response in c.o.l.hardware, but as a Mac user
    I'll ask you to make your discussion based on what you use now. I'll
    just throw to pennies in your direction...

    (1) Migrating to ppc is a pain for most x86 users because ppc hardware
    is quite different from "standard" PC hardware.

    (2) Linux "support" is like hyenas waiting for the scraps after a kill
    -- ppc ports come way too late when compared to Red Hat, Debian, et
    al... We don't even have Fedora! On the other hand, we've got Yellow
    Dog and Darwin.

    To sum it up, and heresy be damned - Unless you need to develop for ppc
    Linux, stick with an x86 box.


  3. Re: X86 or PowerPc

    But you totally disregarding the 'coolness' factor of running Linux on Mac
    hardware. ;-)

    "NeoAmsterdam" <%E2%90%A5@%E2%90%A5.%E2%90%A5> wrote in message
    news:2004100521500975249%E290A5@E290A5E290A5...
    > On 2004-10-05 20:52:45 -0400, VP said:
    >
    >> I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
    >> a AthlonXP 3000+ or a PowerPC (PowerMac G4 or pegasos).
    >>
    >> VP

    >
    > I know you've gotten your response in c.o.l.hardware, but as a Mac user
    > I'll ask you to make your discussion based on what you use now. I'll just
    > throw to pennies in your direction...
    >
    > (1) Migrating to ppc is a pain for most x86 users because ppc hardware is
    > quite different from "standard" PC hardware.
    >
    > (2) Linux "support" is like hyenas waiting for the scraps after a kill --
    > ppc ports come way too late when compared to Red Hat, Debian, et al... We
    > don't even have Fedora! On the other hand, we've got Yellow Dog and
    > Darwin.
    >
    > To sum it up, and heresy be damned - Unless you need to develop for ppc
    > Linux, stick with an x86 box.
    >




  4. Re: X86 or PowerPc

    On 2004-10-05 21:53:13 -0400, "Jon Cortelyou"
    said:

    > But you totally disregarding the 'coolness' factor of running Linux on
    > Mac hardware. ;-)


    I *have* to mention that? I thought is was common knowledge!
    I'd note that there's something very wrong when the UI doesn't match
    the svelte of my TiBook. I just don't need another "I switched to Mac
    and couldn't do anything" user.

    There's only *ONE* ppc-Linux machine that everyone should get if money
    weren't an object:



  5. Re: X86 or PowerPc

    "Jon Cortelyou" writes:

    > But you totally disregarding the 'coolness' factor of running Linux on Mac
    > hardware. ;-)


    If the Mac hardware is given, then yes it's cool to make it usable
    with linux.

    But if you are to buy new hardware it's silly. There's no specs and
    no drivers for some devices integrated into Apple hardware, and other
    PPC motherboards look way too expensive. And about performace, I'm
    yet to see a PPC system compiling faster than AMD / PC system...


    --
    __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

    To vote Democrat or Republican, it's like changing of cabin in the Titanic.

  6. Re: X86 or PowerPc

    NeoAmsterdam <%E2%90%A5@%E2%90%A5.%E2%90%A5> writes:

    > On 2004-10-05 21:53:13 -0400, "Jon Cortelyou"
    > said:
    >
    > > But you totally disregarding the 'coolness' factor of running Linux
    > > on Mac hardware. ;-)

    >
    > I *have* to mention that? I thought is was common knowledge!
    > I'd note that there's something very wrong when the UI doesn't match
    > the svelte of my TiBook. I just don't need another "I switched to Mac
    > and couldn't do anything" user.
    >
    > There's only *ONE* ppc-Linux machine that everyone should get if money
    > weren't an object:
    >


    Ah! Yes, if you hadn't to ask the price... (How do you do a salivating
    Homer smiley?)

    --
    __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

    To vote Democrat or Republican, it's like changing of cabin in the Titanic.

  7. Re: X86 or PowerPc

    > There's no specs and no drivers for some devices integrated into Apple
    > hardware...


    Glad you mention Linux's Achilles heel. Drives are a pain in the royal
    ass regardless of platform. The only distribution that is
    comprehensive for Apple PPCs is Darwin, and I really don't know of
    anyone (besides myself) who uses it regularly.

    > ...and other PPC motherboards look way too expensive.


    [From related post]

    >> There's only *ONE* ppc-Linux machine that everyone should get if money
    >> weren't an object:
    >>

    >
    > Ah! Yes, if you hadn't to ask the price... (How do you do a salivating
    > Homer smiley?)


    I don't know, maybe ":-P;" ? But I'd take a Power5 over an Xserve any
    day of the week.

    [Returning to original post and topic]

    > But if you are to buy new hardware it's silly.


    I couldn't agree more - Especially if you already know the intricacies
    of one platform over another, because you'd lose time and patience
    trying to familiarize yourself with new hardware.

    > And about performace, I'm yet to see a PPC system compiling faster than
    > AMD / PC system...


    Depends on what you're compiling, running, ad nauseum... I'm sure this
    has already been addressed somewhere.

    So in conclusion, even though I've been a Mac user since the days of
    System 6.0.7, my advice is this: If you know x86, use x86.


  8. Re: X86 or PowerPc

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    On 2004-10-06, NeoAmsterdam <%E2%90%A5@%E2%90%A5.%E2%90%A5> wrote:

    > (1) Migrating to ppc is a pain for most x86 users because ppc hardware
    > is quite different from "standard" PC hardware.


    It's not all that different, really. The primary stumbling block,
    for me, at least, was booting the OS--getting quik to boot my OldWorld
    box was a horrible nightmare. Configuring yaboot was easier, but
    not always consistent. But the hardware was pretty easy to deal with.
    The most difficult part is determining which kernel options correspond
    to which hardware.

    > (2) Linux "support" is like hyenas waiting for the scraps after a kill
    > -- ppc ports come way too late when compared to Red Hat, Debian, et
    > al... We don't even have Fedora! On the other hand, we've got Yellow
    > Dog and Darwin.


    Does Darwin count as a linux?

    It's true that there are significantly fewer linux-ppc distros
    available. YDL is still generally behind the corresponding RH/Fedora
    release. If you're familiar with Debian then they have a ppc port,
    but if you're familiar with Debian why bother with ppc hardware?

    One other consideration: if the OP needs a ''user-friendly'' OS
    to dual-boot with while learning linux, certainly the OS available
    on ppc is much better than that for x86.

    - --keith

    - --
    kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
    (try just my userid to email me)
    AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom

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  9. Re: X86 or PowerPc

    VP wrote:
    > I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
    > a AthlonXP 3000+ or a PowerPC (PowerMac G4 or pegasos).
    >

    I bought an iBook G4 for a Linux machine. That was a mistake. Linux
    installs there, it runs, even X works, but still it is crippled for the
    use I need it or as a lecture folder: no dual display to projector, no
    WiFi. However, I have learnt to live with MacOS X. It does have a bash
    shell, you can get real GNU Emacs (not the no-X version that comes with
    Mac), LaTeX environment is even better than in Linux, most free software
    I use works similarly, pdf slides that I make in Linux look great in
    Mac. Normally I don't boot to Linux, but I'll give Yellow Dog still one
    chance before removing all traces of Linux and liberating some hard disk
    for MacOS X. In general, the Mac environment can be made so similar to
    Linux that I can usually continue my Linux work in Mac while travelling,
    and even feel cosy (bash! emacs!). However, it is better to stick to x86
    if you want to have a Linux box.

    cheers, jari oksanen
    --
    Jari Oksanen -- Oulu, Finland


  10. Re: X86 or PowerPc

    On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 01:52:45 +0100, VP wrote in
    <416341de$0$18166$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>:

    > I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
    > *a*AthlonXP*3000+*or*a*PowerPC*(PowerMac*G4*or*peg asos).


    Well, on a new Mac you get OS X which is as good as Linux anyway. Linux on
    PPC is a bit troublesome, as mentioned. Mainly, it's way behind the x86
    equivalents. On the other hand, recently the Fedora-based Yellow Dog and
    Debian based Ubuntu came out, and they're two excellent and up to date
    distributions.

    --
    Kind regards,

    Michel Klijmij
    ICQ/MSN in headers http://michel.klijmij.net/


  11. Re: X86 or PowerPc

    Keith Keller writes:
    > Does Darwin count as a linux?


    No. Darwin counts as 4.4 BSD on a Mach kernel.
    Linux counts as a GNU on a Linux kernel.

    --
    __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

    To vote Democrat or Republican, it's like changing of cabin in the Titanic.

  12. Re: X86 or PowerPc

    On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 01:50:09 GMT,
    NeoAmsterdam <%E2%90%A5@%E2%90%A5.%E2%90%A5>, in
    <2004100521500975249%E290A5@E290A5E290A5> wrote:

    >+ (2) Linux "support" is like hyenas waiting for the scraps after a kill
    >+ -- ppc ports come way too late when compared to Red Hat, Debian,


    Ummm...I suspect that the Debian PPC folks would be surprised to hear
    that...

    James
    --
    Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
    I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
    isn't looking good, either.
    I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

  13. Re: X86 or PowerPc

    Ok I'have a Athlon XP 2500 + Barton with XP, and linux Fedora Core 2 on
    seconde boot point ... It's great ...

    But I just bought a pegasos II machine to try the MorphOS system and the
    YellowDogLinux system. I installed them perfectly and they are working fine
    too ...

    For the moment. I don't have any problem to tell that all the architectures
    are good anough for linux ... but it depends of the money you will spend to
    ....

    PC is really cheaper than a ppc machine .... that the only negative point I
    can see on the board ...

    so ....

    ludovic.degrave@free.fr

    "VP" a Úcrit dans le message de news:
    416341de$0$18166$a729d347@news.telepac.pt...
    > I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
    > a AthlonXP 3000+ or a PowerPC (PowerMac G4 or pegasos).
    >
    > VP




  14. Re: X86 or PowerPc

    Ludovic De Grave wrote:

    >
    > PC is really cheaper than a ppc machine .... that the only negative point
    > I can see on the board ...\


    Not every PPC machine is a cakewalk to install. I seem to have a lousy time
    finding Video drivers (or the proper configuration) for many older
    Macintosh Models/monitors and sound is an issue on some as well. (though I
    have better luck on X86, I am currently suffering with an audio problem
    there, but community support for my ills seems a lot better). On the MacOS
    side don't expect to plug in ANY drive or gizmo in and expect to get it to
    work either (i.e. DVD recorders, etc.)
    Piper
    No parallel or serial ports the Macs either, limits the stuff you can plug
    into your machine.

    If you don't have an overwhelming desire o dual boot OSX or run PPC based
    code I think X86 would save you a bit of grief and frustration.

    Reading on forums and such many of the Unix/Linux crowd have moved to Mac OS
    X because it's just as Unixy with all the support of a commercial OS and
    using utilities such as Fink they port over the PPC Linux stuff they
    desire. So I (IMHO) would do OSX on PPC and if I was going "straight
    Linux", I'd go the X86 route and avoid the PPC schizophrenia.

    Larry
    --
    01000011 01001100 01000001 01010011 01010011 01001001 01000011
    Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k
    Set your 8-bit rigs to sail for http://www.portcommodore.com/
    01010001 01010101 01000001 01001100 01001001 01010100 01011001

  15. Re: X86 or PowerPc

    On 2005-03-28, Larry Anderson wrote:

    > Not every PPC machine is a cakewalk to install. I seem to have a lousy time
    > finding Video drivers (or the proper configuration) for many older
    > Macintosh Models/monitors and sound is an issue on some as well.


    The OP was looking to buy a new computer, so getting linux/ppc to
    work on older Apple hardware isn't an issue. Of course getting linux
    onto an older Apple is going to be more difficult--not all of the
    hardware specs were open, booting the older Open Firmwares was a
    Nightmare of Depravity (TM), and newer linux distros, reasonably
    enough, focus on newer hardware.

    > No parallel or serial ports the Macs either, limits the stuff you can plug
    > into your machine.


    If you have these devices. Most new devices nowadays are USB or
    Firewire, and adapters for parallel and serial devices are readily
    available (though not always cheap).

    > Reading on forums and such many of the Unix/Linux crowd have moved to Mac OS
    > X because it's just as Unixy with all the support of a commercial OS and
    > using utilities such as Fink they port over the PPC Linux stuff they
    > desire. So I (IMHO) would do OSX on PPC and if I was going "straight
    > Linux", I'd go the X86 route and avoid the PPC schizophrenia.


    It is hardly split-personality. OS X can be such a dog compared to
    linux/ppc. I run linux on my iBook, and it is sluggish a lot less
    often than OS X used to be. It even behaves reasonably well with
    OS X running in Mac-on-Linux (though don't expect miracles).

    And let's not use the ''commercial support'' argument! By that
    argument, you'd be running Windows on your x86 hardware. Or Solaris.

    --keith

    --
    kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
    (try just my userid to email me)
    AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom
    see X- headers for PGP signature information


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