Building a PPC system with open *nix os - Powerpc

This is a discussion on Building a PPC system with open *nix os - Powerpc ; One day I looked in c.s.amiga.advocacy and found links to what seemed to be recent Amiga systems, based on the same PowerPC (PPC) processors that are used in Apple Macs. I googled a bit more on the topic and found ...

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  1. Building a PPC system with open *nix os


    One day I looked in c.s.amiga.advocacy and found links to what seemed to be
    recent Amiga systems, based on the same PowerPC (PPC) processors that are
    used in Apple Macs. I googled a bit more on the topic and found sites that
    where selling G3 motherboard/processor combos. Seems these are sold by
    official Amiga dealers. It seemed kind of confusing and vague, but very
    interesting still.

    Will PowerPC G5s and future generation PPC processors become off the
    shelf hardware like x86, so that white box vendors could build there own PPC
    based systems? How easily can this be done now?

    I read, what some consider to be a rumor, that the next XBoX may have up to
    three G5 CPUs. If so, looks like MS will be releasing a version of the NT
    kernal (or something) to run on this. Maybe this could develop into PPC
    systems of some sort running Windows Longhorn? Some say if the XBox goes
    with PPC then the price will drop on the high end PPC chips.

    Anyone know how a G5 system running Linux or BSD compares to an Opteron,
    Xeon or even an Itanium system running Linux or BSD? I have seen a few
    benchmarks, but there is ofcourse much controversy over benchmarks,
    especially when comparing systems with to many components that cannot be
    kept the same, and software not compiled to take advantage of optimizations
    etc...

    Virginia Tech has built a cluster of dual G5 Apples running OS X that
    promises to be one of the fastest super computers in the world. I hear that
    a dual G5 will blow the doors off of anything from Intel or AMD. Some seem
    to think that Intel will eventualy subside while PPC CPUs will gain market
    share. Although I kind of root for AMD Athlong-64/Opteron, it would be nice
    to see some G5's in the mix.

    Ironicaly, ARM could come out of no where and steal the show.





  2. Re: Building a PPC system with open *nix os

    "E" <75475,451@compuserve.com> wrote in message
    news:102avaliece8008@corp.supernews.com...
    > I read, what some consider to be a rumor, that the next XBoX may have
    > up to three G5 CPUs. If so, looks like MS will be releasing a version of
    > the NT kernal (or something) to run on this. Maybe this could develop into
    > PPC systems of some sort running Windows Longhorn? Some say if the
    > XBox goes with PPC then the price will drop on the high end PPC chips.


    That depends what PPC model the XBox2 uses. MS won't be using the
    highest-end chips available because a single PPC970 chip costs more than the
    entire console's target price. Thus, XBox2 won't have a strong effect on
    the high-end PPC market, IMHO.

    WinNT was originally ported to PPC but sales were nil and MS dropped the
    port. I'm sure XBox2 will revive at least part of that port, but IMHO it
    would take a miracle for them to release a complete retail Windows/PPC
    again.

    > Anyone know how a G5 system running Linux or BSD compares to an
    > Opteron, Xeon or even an Itanium system running Linux or BSD?


    Apple's OS/X is built on a FreeBSD derivative called Darwin. Performance of
    a G5 is comparable to an Opteron, though as each side releases new chips the
    performance lead will sway back and forth. There really isn't a significant
    difference in MIPS per dollar between x86 and PPC today.

    > Virginia Tech has built a cluster of dual G5 Apples running OS X that
    > promises to be one of the fastest super computers in the world. I hear

    that
    > a dual G5 will blow the doors off of anything from Intel or AMD.


    A dual G5 is on par with a dual Opteron. The only reason it may "blow the
    doors off" the latter is because dual AMD64 systems aren't cheap and aren't
    currently marketed as desktops.

    > Some seem to think that Intel will eventualy subside while PPC CPUs will
    > gain market share. Although I kind of root for AMD Athlong-64/Opteron,
    > it would be nice to see some G5's in the mix.


    As someone recently said here, "hardware is cheap, software is expensive."
    People buy hardware to run software, so what hardware is dominant at any
    time is a reflection of what popular software runs on. Of course, this is a
    vicious cycle, since developers target their software for whatever hardware
    is popular.

    > Ironicaly, ARM could come out of no where and steal the show.


    It could, but why build a high-end ARM chip when you can just use a PPC?
    ARM is currently popular for low-power devices, but if you want a single
    architecture with _existing chips_ scaling from embedded devices to desktops
    and servers to supercomputers, PPC is the clear winner.

    S

    --
    Stephen Sprunk "Stupid people surround themselves with smart
    CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround themselves with
    K5SSS smart people who disagree with them." --Aaron Sorkin



  3. Re: Building a PPC system with open *nix os

    Stephen Sprunk wrote:

    > "E" <75475,451@compuserve.com> wrote in message
    > news:102avaliece8008@corp.supernews.com...
    >> I read, what some consider to be a rumor, that the next XBoX may have
    >> up to three G5 CPUs. If so, looks like MS will be releasing a version of
    >> the NT kernal (or something) to run on this. Maybe this could develop
    >> into PPC systems of some sort running Windows Longhorn? Some say if the
    >> XBox goes with PPC then the price will drop on the high end PPC chips.

    >
    > That depends what PPC model the XBox2 uses. MS won't be using the
    > highest-end chips available because a single PPC970 chip costs more than
    > the
    > entire console's target price. Thus, XBox2 won't have a strong effect on
    > the high-end PPC market, IMHO.
    >
    > WinNT was originally ported to PPC but sales were nil and MS dropped the
    > port. I'm sure XBox2 will revive at least part of that port, but IMHO it
    > would take a miracle for them to release a complete retail Windows/PPC
    > again.


    From what I know the CPU will be customized by MS to have
    x86 calls, therefore no need for porting.

    --
    POOP

  4. Re: Building a PPC system with open *nix os

    E <75475,451@compuserve.com> wrote in message news:<102avaliece8008@corp.supernews.com>...
    > ...
    > I read, what some consider to be a rumor, that the next XBoX may have up to
    > three G5 CPUs. If so, looks like MS will be releasing a version of the NT
    > kernal (or something) to run on this.


    This is unlikely in the extreme. It's a *gaming console* - one or two
    markets removed from the type of hardware that M$ is interested in
    running Windows on. Note the absence of any general purpose M$ O/S for
    XBox Mk I. However it will probably make an interesting Linux box.
    T

  5. Re: Building a PPC system with open *nix os


    "Toby Thain" wrote in message
    news:d6ce4a6c.0402080326.5000534d@posting.google.c om...
    > E <75475,451@compuserve.com> wrote in message

    news:<102avaliece8008@corp.supernews.com>...
    > > ...
    > > I read, what some consider to be a rumor, that the next XBoX may have up

    to
    > > three G5 CPUs. If so, looks like MS will be releasing a version of the

    NT
    > > kernal (or something) to run on this.

    >
    > This is unlikely in the extreme. It's a *gaming console* - one or two
    > markets removed from the type of hardware that M$ is interested in
    > running Windows on. Note the absence of any general purpose M$ O/S for
    > XBox Mk I. However it will probably make an interesting Linux box.
    > T


    I really hate it when people try to put that trainwreck of an OS, Linux, on
    an Xbox. Its silly, pointless, and degrading to the best game machine
    available.

    Leave the Xbox alone. Its for GAMES! Not bash prompts and kernel reloads.

    RaYzor



  6. Re: Building a PPC system with open *nix os

    In article ,
    RaYzor wrote:
    > I really hate it when people try to put that trainwreck of an OS, Linux, on
    > an Xbox. Its silly, pointless, and degrading to the best game machine
    > available.


    How is putting Linux on an XboX degrading to the Amiga?

    --
    I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs
    of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate. All
    these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain. `-_-'
    Time for your nap. | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag? 'U`

  7. Re: Building a PPC system with open *nix os

    Toby Thain wrote:

    > > ...
    > > I read, what some consider to be a rumor, that the next XBoX may have up
    > > to three G5 CPUs. If so, looks like MS will be releasing a version of
    > > the NT kernal (or something) to run on this.

    >
    > This is unlikely in the extreme. It's a *gaming console* - one or two
    > markets removed from the type of hardware that M$ is interested in running
    > Windows on. Note the absence of any general purpose M$ O/S for XBox Mk I.
    > However it will probably make an interesting Linux box.


    But the current XBox runs NT, doesn't it?

    Like the Dreamcast did/does?

    --
    Andrew J. Brehm
    Fan of Woody Allen
    PowerPC User
    Supporter of Pepperoni Pizza

  8. Re: Building a PPC system with open *nix os

    On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:33:20 +0100, Andrew J. Brehm wrote:

    > Toby Thain wrote:
    >
    >> > ...
    >> > I read, what some consider to be a rumor, that the next XBoX may have up
    >> > to three G5 CPUs. If so, looks like MS will be releasing a version of
    >> > the NT kernal (or something) to run on this.

    >>
    >> This is unlikely in the extreme. It's a *gaming console* - one or two
    >> markets removed from the type of hardware that M$ is interested in running
    >> Windows on. Note the absence of any general purpose M$ O/S for XBox Mk I.
    >> However it will probably make an interesting Linux box.

    >
    > But the current XBox runs NT, doesn't it?
    >
    > Like the Dreamcast did/does?


    I know the Dreamcast ran a stipped down version of Windows CE. I'm not
    sure of the Xbox.


  9. Re: Building a PPC system with open *nix os

    I artiklen <102avaliece8008@corp.supernews.com> , E
    <75475,451@compuserve.com> skrev:

    >
    > One day I looked in c.s.amiga.advocacy and found links to what seemed to be
    > recent Amiga systems, based on the same PowerPC (PPC) processors that are
    > used in Apple Macs. I googled a bit more on the topic and found sites that
    > where selling G3 motherboard/processor combos. Seems these are sold by
    > official Amiga dealers. It seemed kind of confusing and vague, but very
    > interesting still.


    You might find this link interesting .

    This is an evaluation board, so the functionality is a superset of what you
    would see in a commercial board. All of the components should be(come)
    available to the enterprising third party. I would expect the Amiga
    resurrectionists to latch onto this post haste.

    --
    Mvh./Regards, Niels Jørgen Kruse, Vanløse, Denmark

  10. Re: Building a PPC system with open *nix os

    Niels Jørgen Kruse wrote:
    > I artiklen <102avaliece8008@corp.supernews.com> , E
    > <75475,451@compuserve.com> skrev:
    >
    >
    >>One day I looked in c.s.amiga.advocacy and found links to what seemed to be
    >>recent Amiga systems, based on the same PowerPC (PPC) processors that are
    >>used in Apple Macs. I googled a bit more on the topic and found sites that
    >>where selling G3 motherboard/processor combos. Seems these are sold by
    >>official Amiga dealers. It seemed kind of confusing and vague, but very
    >>interesting still.

    >
    >
    > You might find this link interesting .
    >
    > This is an evaluation board, so the functionality is a superset of what you
    > would see in a commercial board. All of the components should be(come)
    > available to the enterprising third party. I would expect the Amiga
    > resurrectionists to latch onto this post haste.
    >
    > --
    > Mvh./Regards, Niels Jørgen Kruse, Vanløse, Denmark


    Thanks, that is definitely very interesting. It would be neat to see
    this take off. Maybe IBM, Dell, Gateway or other OEMs would build
    systems based on this hardware and Apple would sell them OS X licenses.
    And of course there would always be Linux PPC.

    E




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