Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900) - Powerpc

This is a discussion on Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900) - Powerpc ; I downloaded the nostages CD, and after a bit of tinkering got the system to boot via BootX from the CD. Wow, the docs don't give much away there. Anyway, I quickly ran into more trouble, because there was no ...

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900)

  1. Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900)

    I downloaded the nostages CD, and after a bit of tinkering got the system
    to boot via BootX from the CD. Wow, the docs don't give much away there.

    Anyway, I quickly ran into more trouble, because there was no /dev/sd* .
    I could not create my filesystems as a result. My idea is to boot
    Yellowdog, and look at the /dev/sd* entries, then boot again from
    Gentoo nostages, and manually create /dev/sd* . Should I do that,
    or is there some way to convince devfs to put them there for me?

    --
    Griff Miller II | |
    Manager of Information Technology | "Never anthropomorphize computers; |
    Positron Corporation | they hate that." |
    griff.miller@positron.com | |

  2. Re: Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900)

    Griff Miller wrote:
    > I downloaded the nostages CD, and after a bit of tinkering got the system
    > to boot via BootX from the CD. Wow, the docs don't give much away there.
    >
    > Anyway, I quickly ran into more trouble, because there was no /dev/sd* .
    > I could not create my filesystems as a result. My idea is to boot
    > Yellowdog, and look at the /dev/sd* entries, then boot again from
    > Gentoo nostages, and manually create /dev/sd* . Should I do that,
    > or is there some way to convince devfs to put them there for me?


    Duh, I later realized that if I can boot Yellowdog (or any distro)
    I can just run the install from there (I have a separate drive allocated
    to receive Gentoo). That's what I'm doing now. At the moment I'm moving
    from stage2 to stage3 .

    One must check assumptions often!

    Griff


  3. Re: Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900)

    Griff Miller II wrote:

    > I later realized that if I can boot Yellowdog (or any distro)
    > I can just run the install from there (I have a separate drive allocated
    > to receive Gentoo). That's what I'm doing now. At the moment I'm moving
    > from stage2 to stage3.


    Hi:

    I have the same box and have been considering gentoo as a way to remain
    current and optimized on the this hardware - Oldworld clones don't get a
    lot of QA or support in many of the current distros - but they refuse to
    die either!

    Please share your install experiences and comment on pain/gain ratio
    compared to YDL 3 + Freshmeat YDL 3 contribs + codefactory unofficial
    mozillas (my current best working alternative). Currently only 56k
    dialup is a viable option where I live, so full-on gentoo with that
    bandwidth and the original CPU has a pretty tall entrance hurdle.

    Best of luck and let us know how it all turns out.

    Regards,

    D.





  4. Re: Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900)

    Griff Miller II wrote:

    > Griff Miller wrote:
    > > (...)
    > >
    > > Anyway, I quickly ran into more trouble, because there was no /dev/sd* .
    > > I could not create my filesystems as a result. ...


    got the same problems today.

    > Duh, I later realized that if I can boot Yellowdog (or any distro)
    > I can just run the install from there ...


    -v, please ;-)

    (running debian & MoL on a 7500/G3/400)

    regards
    --
    "Have you any four volt, two watt bulbs?"
    "For what?" "No, two."
    "Two what?" "Yes, two watt."
    "No!"

  5. Re: Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900)

    Robert Bar wrote:
    >
    > Griff Miller II wrote:
    >
    > > Griff Miller wrote:
    > > > (...)
    > > >
    > > > Anyway, I quickly ran into more trouble, because there was no /dev/sd* .
    > > > I could not create my filesystems as a result. ...

    >
    > got the same problems today.


    I read somewhere that the problem is that they were having trouble
    getting a vmlinux for the install CD that all PPC machines were happy
    with. Getting SCSI disks to work would make IDE not work, and vice
    versa. Something like that.

    > > Duh, I later realized that if I can boot Yellowdog (or any distro)
    > > I can just run the install from there ...

    >
    > -v, please ;-)
    >
    > (running debian & MoL on a 7500/G3/400)


    OK, I'm a little slow. Your post perplexed me at first. By "-v" you
    mean "be more verbose", yes?

    What I mean is this: boot into debian, for example. Then (assuming you
    have unallocated disk space) partition your unallocated space the way
    you want. I didn't actually have to do anything here, because 1) I simply
    unmounted/removed-from-fstab a fs that I wasn't using for Yellowdog,
    and mke2fs -j'd it, and 2) I chose to use the same swap partition for YD and
    the new Gentoo install. If you choose to share the swap partitions between
    the two distros, be careful not to mkswap your swap partition - you're
    using it!

    If you need to repartition, I expect you can use pdisk, or whatever debian
    uses for PPC partitioning.

    Once you've partitioned your unallocated space, then make your filesystem(s)
    on it. For example, mke2fs -j /dev/sda4 . At this point we're beginning
    to dovetail into the Gentoo PPC instructions. See section 5 at
    http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-ppc-install.xml . Don't do the swapon
    at Section 6.1 . Now, start at Section 6.2, and off you go. Pay attention
    to whether or not you have a GRP CD, or a CD with/without stages. I skipped
    Section 7 and just downloaded stage1 from a mirror. If you're going to download
    a stage, and find a stage0, ignore it. stage0's aren't supposed to be used
    by an end-user like you or me.

    Doing it this way was kind of neat, because I was able to use the machine
    fully at the same time.

    Does that help? You'll still have to do a lot of filling in the blanks. Let
    me know if you get stuck.

    --
    Griff Miller II | |
    Manager of Information Technology | If you're too open-minded, |
    Positron Corporation | your brains might fall out. |
    griff.miller@positron.com | |

  6. Re: Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900)

    "!David Stoltenberg" wrote:
    >
    > Griff Miller II wrote:
    >
    > > I later realized that if I can boot Yellowdog (or any distro)
    > > I can just run the install from there (I have a separate drive allocated
    > > to receive Gentoo). That's what I'm doing now. At the moment I'm moving
    > > from stage2 to stage3.

    >
    > Hi:
    >
    > I have the same box and have been considering gentoo as a way to remain
    > current and optimized on the this hardware - Oldworld clones don't get a
    > lot of QA or support in many of the current distros - but they refuse to
    > die either!


    With Gentoo, I am trying to accomplish two things: 1) to get an install
    whose binaries do *not* have altivec extensions in them, which unnecessarily
    slow down e.g. a PPC604e like in my S900, and 2) to not have to wait for
    the next release to get new versions of software. I nearly cried when I
    installed YD and saw that it had Mozilla 1.2.1 .

    PLD Linux was great for #1, and also for #2 until about a year or so ago.

    I made the jump to YD when a disk crash forced me to reinstall.

    Until I encountered Gentoo, I was seriously reconsidering downloading
    all of YD as source rpm's, and recompiling. It was that much worse than
    PLD in terms of performance. And again there was the issue of up-to-date
    packages.

    > Please share your install experiences and comment on pain/gain ratio
    > compared to YDL 3 + Freshmeat YDL 3 contribs + codefactory unofficial
    > mozillas (my current best working alternative).


    Well, I'm not out of the woods yet. I have the basic system up and running,
    and I've installed XFree86 (emerge xeasyconf) which I was happy to see
    installed the driver for my IMS Twin Turbo video card. YD did not include
    a driver for this card, and I was forced to use fbdev (slow!) until I downloaded
    XFree86 and compiled it myself. Xeasyconf didn't produce a working
    config, though, and right now I'm using my config that I had previously
    crafted to work with YD. That got X up (twm!), and the next step is to get Gnome,
    etc. going.

    That being said, you can see that I'm not quite prepared to say what the user
    experience is going to be like, compared to anything, much less YD. But I will
    say that the system does seem to be faster, though I am just on the console.
    More as things develop. I am optimistic.

    > Currently only 56k
    > dialup is a viable option where I live, so full-on gentoo with that
    > bandwidth and the original CPU has a pretty tall entrance hurdle.


    If you can find someone with bandwidth and a CD burner, I recommend that you
    get them to download/burn a stage or iso onto CD for you. Use stage1 if you've
    got a weekend to kill, and stage3 if you're more pressed for time. Make SURE
    to get a ppc image, not G3/G4. Though I am new to Gentoo, I will say that it's
    worth the experience, if you're up to it.

    --
    Griff Miller II | |
    Manager of Information Technology | The collectivists are coming! |
    Positron Corporation | The collectivists are coming! |
    griff.miller@positron.com | |

  7. Re: Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900)

    Griff Miller wrote:

    > (...)
    >
    > OK, I'm a little slow. Your post perplexed me at first. By "-v" you
    > mean "be more verbose", yes?


    you're right: yes, indeed.

    > What I mean is this: (...)
    >
    > If you need to repartition, I expect you can use pdisk, or whatever debian
    > uses for PPC partitioning.


    fdisk, mac-fdisk, cfdisk - all on debian-board.
    (I prefer cfdisk, if there is no need for a mac-like partition-map)

    > (...). At this point we're beginning
    > to dovetail into the Gentoo PPC instructions. See section 5 at
    > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-ppc-install.xml. Don't do the swapon
    > at Section 6.1. Now, start at Section 6.2, ...


    _that_ has been the hint I was looking for!

    > ..., and off you go.


    right: the machine is bootstrapping ;-)

    > Doing it this way was kind of neat, because I was able to use the machine
    > fully at the same time.

    ^^^^^
    it has become a little bit slow, but I can do news & mail in MoL and
    manage the rest of my home-byte-park: much better than 'sit & wait'.


    > Does that help? You'll still have to do a lot of filling in the blanks. Let
    > me know if you get stuck.


    I'll do so: if ...!

    thanks a lot for helping.

    kind regards
    robert
    --
    "Have you any four volt, two watt bulbs?"
    "For what?" "No, two."
    "Two what?" "Yes, two watt."
    "No!"

  8. Re: Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900)

    Robert Bar wrote:
    >
    > _that_ has been the hint I was looking for!


    Good. Glad you got going.

    Progress report: I've got Gnome installed, sort of. I did
    as section 4 of the desktop guide said, "emerge gnome" .
    Much later it died at package 80-something of 120-something.
    I don't remember what the error message was, since I had to
    quickly boot the machine up in MacOS for some reason. Later,
    I came back and did "emerge gnome" again, figuring it would
    quickly get to the same error message. Wrong! It seemed to
    either start up at the next package (leaving a corrupt
    package?), or start up at the same
    package but succeed this time (?). Then, I didn't get any
    errors until the 2nd to last package, epiphany. It died, saying
    I need to re-do mozilla with gtk2, which is really irritating
    considering the emerge gnome had already built mozilla. mozilla
    takes a looooong time to build. So I'm sort of waiting until I
    can take the time to rebuild mozilla.

    Instead of doing the emerge gnome, you might want to save the output
    of emerge --pretend gnome, and then do them one-by-one in the order
    listed. That way you can stop/start as you like.

    --
    Griff Miller II
    Manager of Information Technology
    Positron Corporation - Houston, TX -- Measure twice. Cut once. --
    griff.miller@positron.com

  9. Re: Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900)

    Griff Miller II wrote:
    >
    > Progress report: I've got Gnome installed, sort of. I did
    > as section 4 of the desktop guide said, "emerge gnome" .


    OK, I got Gnome (2.4) completely installed, but I've since removed
    it, and I'm in the process of installing kde. Gnome's configurability
    has taken a giant leap backward from the days of 1.x . Then, you
    could configure *everything* (like wireframe vs. opaque move/resize... AHEM).
    Now, it's like being on Windows 95.

    Actually, the wireframe vs. opaque move/resize thing is really a function of
    the window manager, but just you try and change window managers in Gnome 2.4
    (can't configure THAT anymore, either - you're stuck with metacity) .

    Not that I'm wild about KDE, either - but at least it lets me configure a
    lot more stuff than Gnome does.

    Removing gnome was sort of strange. I installed it with "emerge gnome" but
    neither "emerge clean gnome" nor "emerge unmerge gnome" would work. I had
    to use the list I'd saved from "emerge -p gnome" before gnome was installed
    to remove the packages individually, and even at that "emerge clean" would
    not work - I had to use "emerge unmerge" .

    Anyway, it's clear that Gentoo is faster than YD. But anyone other than a
    hobbyist/poweruser should use a stage3 CD!

    --
    Griff Miller II | |
    Manager of Information Technology | "This space has been blankly |
    Positron Corporation | left intentional." |
    griff.miller@positron.com | |

  10. Re: Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900)

    Griff Miller wrote:

    >
    > OK, I got Gnome (2.4) completely installed, but I've since removed
    > it, and I'm in the process of installing kde. Gnome's configurability
    > has taken a giant leap backward from the days of 1.x . Then, you
    > could configure *everything* (like wireframe vs. opaque move/resize... AHEM).
    > Now, it's like being on Windows 95.


    Agreed. The workaround is to just call the gnome features you need from
    within (fluxbox|enlightenment|icewm|afterstep|windowmaker ) in your .xinitrc

    I wrap all of those in a script (I call it gnome-lipservice - it calls
    and kills gnome-font-properties twice, and then launches xsri for
    wallpaper -)

    gnome-lipservice & # desktop, font controls/anitalias
    gnome-terminal & # love the tabs
    mozilla & # ditto
    gftp & # rules
    xmms & # ditto
    exec fluxbox (or enlightenment whatever)

    Fluxbox with the remember hack + gnome support (Mandrake 9.1 contribs,
    no dependencies, love it) . . . will then remember the desktop (1-5 in
    my case) and position. With fbdesk, you even have clickable icons -
    it's almost like the early Be days !

    > Actually, the wireframe vs. opaque move/resize thing is really a function of
    > the window manager, but just you try and change window managers in Gnome 2.4
    > (can't configure THAT anymore, either - you're stuck with metacity) .


    Drive from (fluxbox|enlightenment|icewm|afterstep|windowmaker ) as well.

    > Not that I'm wild about KDE, either - but at least it lets me configure a
    > lot more stuff than Gnome does.


    Just avoid gnome-session or metacity per se (as above) and you can (with
    hassle) call whatever you want from within G.

    > Anyway, it's clear that Gentoo is faster than YD. But anyone other than a
    > hobbyist/poweruser should use a stage3 CD!
    >


    Question: you're saying there's no appreciable performance loss of
    stage3 vs not - ? Also, are we talking 15-20% snappier in the GUI
    environment or something else ?

    Thanks again for sharing !

    D.


  11. Re: Gentoo on Oldworld (Umax Supermac S900)

    "!David Stoltenberg" wrote:
    >
    > Question: you're saying there's no appreciable performance loss of
    > stage3 vs not - ?


    I'm saying I don't *think* there would be, so long as you got the
    right architecture (ppc, G3, G4) . The G3 cd would probably work
    on a 604, but not as well as ppc.

    I haven't actually used a stage3 cd.

    > Also, are we talking 15-20% snappier in the GUI
    > environment or something else ?


    Everything is snappier.

    --
    Griff Miller II | |
    Manager of Information Technology | "This space has been blankly |
    Positron Corporation | left intentional." |
    griff.miller@positron.com | |

+ Reply to Thread