Re: [9fans] Colors and other fun - Plan9

This is a discussion on Re: [9fans] Colors and other fun - Plan9 ; Vim ships with a file quotes.txt containing testimonials. This is my favorite: I typed :set all and the screen FILLED up with options. A whole screen of things to be set and unset. I saw some of my old friends ...

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Thread: Re: [9fans] Colors and other fun

  1. Re: [9fans] Colors and other fun

    Vim ships with a file quotes.txt containing testimonials. This is my favorite:

    I typed :set all and the screen FILLED up with options. A whole screen of
    things to be set and unset. I saw some of my old friends like wrapmargin,
    modelines and showmode, but the screen was FILLED with new friends! I love
    them all! I love VIM! I'm so happy that I've found this editor! I feel
    like how I once felt when I started using vi after a couple of years of using
    ed. I never thought I'd forsake my beloved ed, but vi ... oh god, vi was
    great. And now, VIM. (Peter Jay Salzman, USA)

    Russ

  2. Re: [9fans] Colors and other fun

    > Vim ships with a file quotes.txt containing testimonials. This is my favorite:
    >
    > I typed :set all and the screen FILLED up with options. A whole screen of
    > things to be set and unset. I saw some of my old friends like wrapmargin,
    > modelines and showmode, but the screen was FILLED with new friends! I love
    > them all! I love VIM! I'm so happy that I've found this editor! I feel
    > like how I once felt when I started using vi after a couple of years of using
    > ed. I never thought I'd forsake my beloved ed, but vi ... oh god, vi was
    > great. And now, VIM. (Peter Jay Salzman, USA)


    heh... nice.


  3. Re: [9fans] Colors and other fun

    > Vim ships with a file quotes.txt containing testimonials. This is my favorite:

    > I typed :set all and the screen FILLED up with options. A whole screen of
    > things to be set and unset. I saw some of my old friends like wrapmargin,
    > modelines and showmode, but the screen was FILLED with new friends! I love
    > them all! I love VIM! I'm so happy that I've found this editor! I feel
    > like how I once felt when I started using vi after a couple of years of using
    > ed. I never thought I'd forsake my beloved ed, but vi ... oh god, vi was
    > great. And now, VIM. (Peter Jay Salzman, USA)


    Haha, and after hours of configuring its nearly useable!


  4. Re: [9fans] Colors and other fun

    > I typed :set all and the screen FILLED up with options. A whole screen of
    > things to be set and unset.


    Tinkering. No one thinks big of you.


  5. Re: [9fans] Colors and other fun

    >> I typed :set all and the screen FILLED up with options. A whole screen of
    >> things to be set and unset.

    >
    > Tinkering. No one thinks big of you.


    Options considered harmful. The ability to set up your applications the
    way you like them is dangerously UNIX-like and must be avoided. The
    Holy Code of the Sacred Developers contain the hard-coded Values that
    lead to True Enlightenment.


    John


  6. Re: [9fans] Colors and other fun

    > The Holy Code of the Sacred Developers contain the hard-coded Values that
    > lead to True Enlightenment.


    you say this with sarcasm. but i think there's some truth to it.
    hard-coded Values are ones you don't need to think about.

    my first reaction to russ' note was that vim hasn't so much provided
    an editor, but an editor development platform for people who don't
    want to start from scratch.

    you wouldn't put up with a car that had 1000 options that needed
    configuring before you could comfortably go down the road. why
    put up with it in software?

    if you still really want it just the way you want it, write
    your own. fidding options doesn't count among the Holy Code,
    as you likely want the one feature they don't have.

    - erik

  7. Re: [9fans] Colors and other fun

    On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 05:56:46PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
    >my first reaction to russ' note was that vim hasn't so much provided
    >an editor, but an editor development platform for people who don't
    >want to start from scratch.


    You're thinking of Emacs. Vim, internally and externally, is a
    monolithic mess (I'm no Emacs appologist, by the way). It's got
    scripting languages and knobs and bells and whistles and chimes
    and thorns cyanide. But it's not a platform. It's an editor that
    you can try to mangle to behave in ways it normally wouldn't.
    Emacs, though, is an OS, which has some editor functionality.
    It's a platform on which to build an editor. It's also large,
    complex, and beyond my ability to wield.

    --
    Kris Maglione

    Any line, however short, is still too long.

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Version: GnuPG v2.0.3 (FreeBSD)

    iD8DBQFGgt9QseQZD8Aui4wRAohgAJ9DtxDoRfDRhnh4gzYNl4/QGjAexACgkVw1
    dSp4D9Hfeb172BfljjLZeJc=
    =76oc
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


  8. Re: [9fans] Colors and other fun

    > you wouldn't put up with a car that had 1000 options that needed
    > configuring before you could comfortably go down the road. why
    > put up with it in software?
    >


    So it's better to use an editor which *doesn't* allow you to configure
    it at all than to use one which lets you set every detail? Last time
    I checked, I could start up vi and get to work, without needing to
    set 1000 options. I wouldn't do such a thing, because I use emacs,
    but you get my drift. (vi isn't comfortable no matter how many
    options you set)

    To continue with the analogy--why are so many computer analogies
    about cars, and why are they so bad?--vi is more like a car where
    you can give yourself automatic windows at a whim, change the
    body color, swap out seats, change the steering wheel to a fighter
    jet stick, or hang fluffy dice in the windows. A more suitable
    analogy for acme would be a seat in an airliner. You get a seat,
    it's pretty comfortable, you can do a few things, but your
    environment is irrevocably set as the inside of a 737, in a blue seat,
    with a screaming kid next to you.
    (does the screaming kid represent uriel? Let's not go too deep).

    That said, I'm writing this email from acme. It grows on you. I'm pretty
    happy with it in most cases. I just have a strong desire to be able to
    customize *something*; maybe it gives me the illusion of power.

    Sometimes (all times) it's more fun to troll than to work.


    John


  9. Re: Colors and other fun

    I would like to point the attention of the audience to the notion,
    which Rob made back in 2003:

    From: r...@mightycheese.com (Rob Pike)
    Date: Sep 16 2003, 8:49 am
    Subject: g++
    To: comp.os.plan9


    > This is an interesting point. Plan 9 esthetics are really nice. colors,
    > fonts, and so on just "look good". Who did all that?


    glad you like it. really glad. most people say something rude about
    it.

    i can take no credit for the fonts except for having the good luck to
    know
    chuck bigelow and kris holmes well enough to ask them to do a deal
    with
    bell labs and let us use their fonts. the postscript fonts used in
    the
    manual,
    which are related to the screen fonts (primarily those used in acme),
    were
    the first font designed specifically for unicode. i also rather like
    the screen
    fonts, which were also maybe the first.

    the clean appearance of the screen comes mostly from laziness, but the
    color scheme is (obviously) deliberate. the intent was to build on an
    observation by edwardtuftethat the human system likes nature and
    nature
    is full of pale colors, so something you're going to look at all day
    might best
    serve if it were also in relaxing shades. renee french helped me with
    the
    specifics of the color scheme (she's a professional illustrator and my
    color
    vision is suspect), once i'd figured out how i wanted it to look.
    there are
    still some features of the color system that i put in that i think no
    one has
    ever noticed. that's a good thing, in my opinion; the colors should
    fade
    away, if you'll pardon the expression.

    having used other systems with different approaches to color screens,
    most especially windows XP (extra pukey), i thinktuftewas right.

    -rob

  10. Re: [9fans] Re: Colors and other fun

    > glad you like it. really glad. most people say something rude about
    > it.


    when i saw Plan 9 for the first time, i also said rude things about it's UI and
    colors. after i've used it some days, i loved it. especially my eyes love this
    colors, they don't hurt anymore, even after hours of working.

    > i thinktuftewas right


    all people who designed this UI was right, it's a piece of art compared to other
    UI's. and there's absolutely no need to configure anything, which is a really
    nice fact.


  11. Re: [9fans] Re: Colors and other fun

    On 6/28/07, pavlovetsky@gmail.com wrote:
    > From: r...@mightycheese.com (Rob Pike)
    > Date: Sep 16 2003, 8:49 am
    >
    > the clean appearance of the screen comes mostly from laziness, but the
    > color scheme is (obviously) deliberate. the intent was to build on an
    > observation by edwardtuftethat the human system likes nature and
    > nature
    > is full of pale colors, so something you're going to look at all day
    > might best
    > serve if it were also in relaxing shades. renee french helped me with
    > the
    > specifics of the color scheme (she's a professional illustrator and my
    > color
    > vision is suspect), once i'd figured out how i wanted it to look.
    > there are
    > still some features of the color system that i put in that i think no
    > one has
    > ever noticed. that's a good thing, in my opinion; the colors should
    > fade
    > away, if you'll pardon the expression.


    Rob and co. definitely did a stellar job on the color palette, though
    you will see some knee-jerk reactions (something I may have been
    guilty of in the past).

    *If* someone wanted to keep the same strategy but monkey with the
    palette, you could use this as a start:

    http://www.colourlovers.com/blog/200...e-butterflies/

    -Jack

  12. Re: [9fans] Re: Colors and other fun

    ich das vorhin war zu optimistisch

  13. Re: [9fans] Re: Colors and other fun

    > On 6/28/07, pavlovetsky@gmail.com wrote:
    >> From: r...@mightycheese.com (Rob Pike)
    >> Date: Sep 16 2003, 8:49 am
    >>
    >> the clean appearance of the screen comes mostly from laziness, but the
    >> color scheme is (obviously) deliberate. the intent was to build on an
    >> observation by edwardtuftethat the human system likes nature and
    >> nature
    >> is full of pale colors, so something you're going to look at all day
    >> might best
    >> serve if it were also in relaxing shades. renee french helped me with
    >> the
    >> specifics of the color scheme (she's a professional illustrator and my
    >> color
    >> vision is suspect), once i'd figured out how i wanted it to look.
    >> there are
    >> still some features of the color system that i put in that i think no
    >> one has
    >> ever noticed. that's a good thing, in my opinion; the colors should
    >> fade
    >> away, if you'll pardon the expression.

    >
    > Rob and co. definitely did a stellar job on the color palette, though
    > you will see some knee-jerk reactions (something I may have been
    > guilty of in the past).
    >
    > *If* someone wanted to keep the same strategy but monkey with the
    > palette, you could use this as a start:
    >
    > http://www.colourlovers.com/blog/200...e-butterflies/
    >
    > -Jack


    It really is a very nice color set, and all around an excellent UI.
    My criticisms are simply the products of various neuroses and such.

    John


  14. Re: [9fans] Re: Colors and other fun

    On 6/28/07, Jack Johnson wrote:
    > > color scheme is (obviously) deliberate.

    >
    > *If* someone wanted to keep the same strategy but monkey with the
    > palette, you could use this as a start:
    >
    > http://www.colourlovers.com/blog/200...e-butterflies/


    Another technique that could be interesting to use with screenshots to
    develop a private, alternate palette:

    http://www.unfocusedbrain.com/projects/match_color/

    ....though the Matisse (? I'm such a heathen) could make for a real migraine UI.

    -J

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