Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9? - Plan9

This is a discussion on Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9? - Plan9 ; > I'm starting to suspect that maybe nobody cares about the future of Plan 9. You could not be more mistaken. Do you seriously believe that your ranting is going to save Plan 9? If you do, you might want ...

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Thread: Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

  1. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    > I'm starting to suspect that maybe nobody cares about the future of Plan 9.

    You could not be more mistaken. Do you seriously believe that your
    ranting is going to save Plan 9? If you do, you might want to
    consider that many of us do not believe in the "Cathedral vs Bazaar"
    approach to computer programming. And of these infidels, some happen
    to be those who created and nursed Plan 9 to where it is today.

    ++L


  2. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    On 5/11/07, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote:
    > > I'm starting to suspect that maybe nobody cares about the future of Plan 9.

    >
    > You could not be more mistaken. Do you seriously believe that your
    > ranting is going to save Plan 9? If you do, you might want to
    > consider that many of us do not believe in the "Cathedral vs Bazaar"
    > approach to computer programming. And of these infidels, some happen
    > to be those who created and nursed Plan 9 to where it is today.


    I have not even read the god damned "Cathedral and Bazaar" book. But I
    have read The Mythical Man Month and anything by Kernighan (and the
    rest of the 1127 gang) I could find anywhere, including things like:

    "Design and build software, even operating systems, to be tried early,
    ideally within weeks."

    -- The Bell System Technical Journal. Bell Laboratories. M. D. McIlroy,
    E. N. Pinson, and B. A. Tague. "Unix Time-Sharing System Forward" 1978.
    57 (6, part 2). p. 1902.

    It is beyond me how anyone expects things to be "tried early" if the
    code remains locked up who knows where for years. The "release early,
    release often" open source mantra trivially follows from this
    principle.

    In any case, it is clear that no matter how much we hate open source
    and open source projects, Plan 9 needs an open source community if it
    is going to survive, and if we continue to display total contempt even
    towards its most basic practices Plan 9 will continue to be ignored by
    the open source community and will wither and die (if it is not dead
    already).

    Seen somewhere earlier today (nick name removed because apparently no
    one dears to criticize in public):

    12:05 < XXXX> I find quite frustrating to start a project that is
    already done...
    12:05 < XXXX> To look for a driver that is already there...
    12:05 < XXXX> To have an idea that someone else is doing...
    12:06 * XXXX grrrrsss and rants...
    12:06 < uriel> talking about 9fans?
    12:06 < XXXX> Of course.
    12:11 < XXXX> [sources/contrib] is great, as long as people put their
    work there...
    12:11 < XXXX> And an INDEX...

    uriel

  3. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    > Plan 9 needs an open source community if it
    > is going to survive


    You keep harping. Where is the evidence?

    ++L


  4. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    > 12:05 < XXXX> I find quite frustrating to start a project that is
    > already done...


    Rather than pleased that something wanted is already available?
    Please spare me the whinging and rather admit, both of you here, that
    Plan 9 is not ripe for those who seek to stand on the shoulders of
    giants, not to see further, but to be noticed from a distance.

    > 12:05 < XXXX> To look for a driver that is already there...
    > 12:05 < XXXX> To have an idea that someone else is doing...


    Asking tends to solicit replies. Is it our fault that we aren't
    exactly interested in using IRC?

    > 12:06 * XXXX grrrrsss and rants...
    > 12:06 < uriel> talking about 9fans?
    > 12:06 < XXXX> Of course.
    > 12:11 < XXXX> [sources/contrib] is great, as long as people put their
    > work there...
    > 12:11 < XXXX> And an INDEX...


    No one has ever stopped anyone from setting up a CVS repository or
    anything else that might be more useful than sources. But the reality
    is that Uriel and colleagues are looking for a platform for fame and
    fortune. Sadly, Plan 9 is not "American Idol" and those who really do
    contribute are concentrating on their tasks instead of, as Uriel would
    like, on making Plan 9 leave up to popularistic expectations.

    My take: "thank ****!"

    ++L


  5. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    I am gona put the face to those XXXX, lucio.

    I am not looking for fame, I am looking to get some hardware working.
    The system didn't have those drivers, so I googled, I asked and
    perhaps I asked the wrong place.

    Ok...Starting several projects, even if they are already done, has
    tought very interesting and cool things But sometimes you can start
    to think about something else if you can stop worrying about your sata
    drive, your vga card and your network card. I don't like the sensation
    of starting something and then, some time after that, getting a
    message saying "well I did that last eon"...

    Probably I asked in the wrong places in the beginning. I've noticed
    that many members of this community do not use IRC.

    Everybody is free to do whatever suits with their code. I find
    sources/contrib a good thing, but I have also noticed that there are
    things missing there. Someone looks for a driver, the driver isn't
    there... Then looks in 9fans... Ask in irc.. Nobody answers... Until
    you are facing some problem and ask, a couple of weeks before... It is
    magic, someone had done that before...

    All I want... Is world peace, universal love and no child never ever
    left behind.

    Bah, It doesn't matter anymore... It is just that I don't feel useful
    if someone else tells me that has done my work a long time ago... It
    is like blowing in a pinholed baloon... It will never grow.

    I am sorry If my complaint offends someone.

    Cheers!


    On 5/11/07, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote:
    > > 12:05 < XXXX> I find quite frustrating to start a project that is
    > > already done...

    >
    > Rather than pleased that something wanted is already available?
    > Please spare me the whinging and rather admit, both of you here, that
    > Plan 9 is not ripe for those who seek to stand on the shoulders of
    > giants, not to see further, but to be noticed from a distance.
    >
    > > 12:05 < XXXX> To look for a driver that is already there...
    > > 12:05 < XXXX> To have an idea that someone else is doing...

    >
    > Asking tends to solicit replies. Is it our fault that we aren't
    > exactly interested in using IRC?
    >
    > > 12:06 * XXXX grrrrsss and rants...
    > > 12:06 < uriel> talking about 9fans?
    > > 12:06 < XXXX> Of course.
    > > 12:11 < XXXX> [sources/contrib] is great, as long as people put their
    > > work there...
    > > 12:11 < XXXX> And an INDEX...

    >
    > No one has ever stopped anyone from setting up a CVS repository or
    > anything else that might be more useful than sources. But the reality
    > is that Uriel and colleagues are looking for a platform for fame and
    > fortune. Sadly, Plan 9 is not "American Idol" and those who really do
    > contribute are concentrating on their tasks instead of, as Uriel would
    > like, on making Plan 9 leave up to popularistic expectations.
    >
    > My take: "thank ****!"
    >
    > ++L
    >
    >


  6. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    > I am sorry If my complaint offends someone.

    Quite unlikely, we're adults here. Thank you for not letting Uriel
    continue his game. By the way, was he helpful to you in any way?

    ++L


  7. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    > I am gona put the face to those XXXX, lucio.
    >
    > I am not looking for fame, I am looking to get some hardware working.
    > The system didn't have those drivers, so I googled, I asked and
    > perhaps I asked the wrong place.


    Welcome. And thank you for a refreshingly honest response.

    ++L


  8. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    > But the reality is that Uriel and colleagues are looking for a
    > platform for fame and fortune.


    I think you're being gratuitously cruel.

    OTOH I _do_ think that some people around here
    are uncertain enough about their own opinions that
    they subconsciously believe that approbation == excellence
    and thus waste effort trying to convince others
    that plan9 is Really Good when they are
    really trying to convince themselves.

    I, OTOH suffer from no such problem:
    I _know_ I'm right*.
    If anything, I suffer from the opposite delusion:
    I own a MacBook (unpopular) but not an iPod (popular)
    and I am deeply distrustful of popularity
    as a measure of anything other than popularity.

    > Sadly, Plan 9 is not "American Idol"


    That's right: we're not all tone-deaf braindead egomaniacs.

    D.


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  9. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    Dear Sirs,

    I believe I have recieved this email in error.

    Erik Quanstrom

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  10. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    They were very helpful when I phoned them. I had no idea who I was
    phoning so it was a pleasant surprise when I got put through somehow to
    Dave Lukes and we had quite the chat!

    let's hear it for socially enabling disclaimers

    matt

    >Dear Sirs,
    >
    >I believe I have recieved this email in error.
    >
    >Erik Quanstrom
    >
    >
    >
    >>************************************************** ******************
    >>This e-mail and files transmitted with it are confidential. If you
    >>have received this e-mail in error please notify us immediately by
    >>return email or telephone +44 (0)207398 0207. You are not authorised
    >>to, and must not, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this message
    >>or any part of it.
    >>************************************************** ******************
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >



  11. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    erik quanstrom wrote:
    > Dear Sirs,
    >
    > I believe I have recieved this email in error.
    >
    > Erik Quanstrom
    >
    >
    >> ************************************************** ******************
    >> This e-mail and files transmitted with it are confidential. If you
    >> have received this e-mail in error please notify us immediately by
    >> return email or telephone +44 (0)207398 0207. You are not authorised
    >> to, and must not, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this message
    >> or any part of it.
    >> ************************************************** ******************
    >>

    OK OK, total corporate humiliation has now been achieved:-~.

    I'll subscribe from a slightly more civilised address.


    DaveL

    P.S. "'i' before 'e' except after 'c'":-).



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    have received this e-mail in error please notify us immediately by
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  12. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    sorry. the irony was just too great to pass up. ;-)

    i noticed that spelling error. i could claim it was
    part of the joke, but it's just bad spelling.

    - erik

  13. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    Dave Lukes wrote:
    >> But the reality is that Uriel and colleagues are looking for a
    >> platform for fame and fortune.

    >
    > I think you're being gratuitously cruel.
    >
    > OTOH I _do_ think that some people around here
    > are uncertain enough about their own opinions that
    > they subconsciously believe that approbation == excellence
    > and thus waste effort trying to convince others
    > that plan9 is Really Good when they are
    > really trying to convince themselves.
    >
    > I, OTOH suffer from no such problem:
    > I _know_ I'm right*.
    > If anything, I suffer from the opposite delusion:
    > I own a MacBook (unpopular) but not an iPod (popular)
    > and I am deeply distrustful of popularity
    > as a measure of anything other than popularity.
    >
    >> Sadly, Plan 9 is not "American Idol"

    >
    > That's right: we're not all tone-deaf braindead egomaniacs.
    >
    > D.
    >


    Not yet. (PowerBook and totally uncomputerized vintage Marantz audio gear).

    'Nam and things that make loud noises took care of the tone-deaf part long ago.

    Anyone here will attest I'm diligently working on the 'brain dead' part as well.

    And I was *born* an egomaniac...

    Ipse dixit.

    ;-)

    But 'Not guilty' to yet being convinced - in any direction, really, w/r Plan9.

    Still wading through the chaff.

    Bill


  14. Re: [9fans] Is IBM ThinkPad R60e notebook compatible with Plan9?

    > That's right: we're not all tone-deaf braindead egomaniacs.

    Yeah. I'm the only one!

    ++L


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