[9fans] usb: keyboards vs. hubs - Plan9

This is a discussion on [9fans] usb: keyboards vs. hubs - Plan9 ; What is it with keyboards plugged in to USB hubs that the kernel doesn't like? I thought it was just a broken hub when I first noticed this, but now I've seen it on two completely distinct systems. If the ...

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: [9fans] usb: keyboards vs. hubs

  1. [9fans] usb: keyboards vs. hubs

    What is it with keyboards plugged in to USB hubs that the kernel doesn't
    like? I thought it was just a broken hub when I first noticed this, but
    now I've seen it on two completely distinct systems.

    If the keyboard has anything between it and the CPU (e.g. a hub or KVM)
    it doesn't work. Yet on the exact same path, a USB mouse works just
    fine. In at least 50% of the cases, the same keyboard directly attached
    works fine :-P Am I just in a vortex field?


    --lyndon

    Specifications are for the weak and timid!

  2. Re: [9fans] usb: keyboards vs. hubs

    yes you are in a USB vortex. no human can implement the
    standard. no standards dudes can implement anything.

    brucee

    On 5/4/07, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
    > What is it with keyboards plugged in to USB hubs that the kernel doesn't
    > like? I thought it was just a broken hub when I first noticed this, but
    > now I've seen it on two completely distinct systems.
    >
    > If the keyboard has anything between it and the CPU (e.g. a hub or KVM)
    > it doesn't work. Yet on the exact same path, a USB mouse works just
    > fine. In at least 50% of the cases, the same keyboard directly attached
    > works fine :-P Am I just in a vortex field?
    >
    >
    > --lyndon
    >
    > Specifications are for the weak and timid!
    >


  3. Re: [9fans] usb: keyboards vs. hubs

    plan 9 supports the mouse on usb using usb/mouse, running the full protocol,
    so it can find it on the hub.

    it does nothing to support the keyboard, so when it works, i'd suspect it's
    because you've enabled legacy mode in the bios, which leaves the keyboard
    in special `boot device mode', and (perhaps depending on which bios)
    that possibly only works when it's directly visible on one of the system's notional root hubs
    (ie, directly wired ports without a hub at all).


  4. Re: [9fans] usb: keyboards vs. hubs

    "Lyndon Nerenberg" wrote in message
    news:20070503185314.B22416@orthanc.ca...
    > If the keyboard has anything between it and the CPU (e.g. a hub or KVM)
    > it doesn't work.


    Assuming there is a USB driver for the keyboard device, then
    check whether the problem occurs if the keyboard is already
    connected when the computer is powered on. At least for
    PS/2 keyboards, there is an initialization sequence that has to
    be performed (KVM switches generally do that).

  5. Re: [9fans] usb: keyboards vs. hubs

    Bruce Ellis wrote:
    > no standards dudes can implement anything.

    ....in a message that was answered expertly by Charles Forsyth, who once
    again shows that he, a consummate implementer with a real passion for
    simplicity and elegance, should be the sole source of standards for
    everything in the world.

    If the world cannot, with suitable inducements not necessarily excluding
    some arm twisting, induce Charles to take the job then there are another
    few dozen suitable candidates. But one really smart talented implementer
    surrounded by some smart guards to keep the supplicants at bay should be
    responsible for all standards, including how to turn on the freaking
    wipers on that rental car.

    Wes

    PS No, I really mean it.

  6. Re: [9fans] usb: keyboards vs. hubs

    > including how to turn on the freaking
    > wipers on that rental car.


    had a Renault Megan from work for a few days and couldn't work out
    where the "key" (credit card like thing) went - had to look and idiot
    and ask somone.

    OSs I expect but when cars start getting such crazy feature creep
    its time to break out the long knives.



    -Steve

  7. Re: [9fans] usb: keyboards vs. hubs

    Steve Simon wrote:
    > OSs I expect but when cars start getting such crazy feaure creep
    > its time to break out the long knives.
    >

    I hope you join me in eagerly awaiting the czar's edict on

    1. required placement/symbology etc. in car starting devices (actually
    they should be zigbee or other wireless protocol)
    2. putting real duly constituted public authority into the expression
    "certification authority"
    3. proper enrollment procedures for binding key pairs to human beings
    4. binding the resulting certificate to one's driver's license &
    embedding it in the key fob (or wristwatch or whatever)
    5. standards for software that defines when and how police may ping your
    car to see who's driving;
    6. building codes for the facility from which you control the use of
    information that is associated with the key pair

    Wes Kussmaul

  8. Re: [9fans] usb: keyboards vs. hubs

    On 5/4/07, Charles Forsyth wrote:
    > plan 9 supports the mouse on usb using usb/mouse, running the full protocol,
    > so it can find it on the hub.
    >
    > it does nothing to support the keyboard, so when it works, i'd suspect it's
    > because you've enabled legacy mode in the bios, which leaves the keyboard
    > in special `boot device mode', and (perhaps depending on which bios)
    > that possibly only works when it's directly visible on one of the system's notional root hubs
    > (ie, directly wired ports without a hub at all).


    and, of course, there's always the issue that many BIOS USB stacks
    will support *some*, but not *all*, keyboards. I had this recently
    with a brand new Sun Ultra40. No PS/2 keyboards for them, no sir! USB!
    It's the 21st century!

    So, the hunt for a working USB keyboard turned up several NFG units
    and one working unit.

    Summary: Just because the BIOS won't support *a* USB keyboard, does
    not mean it can not support some other USB keyboard.

    Just to keep it interesting.

    ron

+ Reply to Thread