[9fans] extending xen to allow driver development in Plan 9
This is mostly for Richard Miller but I don't have his email. But if
you are interested in Xen, read along.
We have an ok xen environment going. Why are we doing this? Per a
certain person at xyz.com, we are looking at giving people a usable
xen-based plan 9 environment, and at the same time letting them do
driver work from Plan 9 by "poking holes" in Xen to let Plan 9 at the
real hardware. Xen supports this, we think, although we have not got
it going yet ...
I already like the situation thus far, as Plan 9 under Xen is a ton
faster than Plan 9 under qemu. You have to see it to believe it; if
anything, the Xen advantage is better than it used to be. I was
to get to the point of poking holes in Xen, it turned out I need
pcifront. For pcifront I need xenbus. for xenbus I need xenstore.
There is xenstore support in Plan 9 already, but ...
The xenstore sez: "incomplete". What would it take to complete it?
conservative use of locks in the short term as a hack for really doing
it right in the long term? The comment is this:
* XXX This is incomplete - needs multiplexing of request/response protocol
* and locking between driver and kernel-only xenstore_read/write interface.
Should we set up queues for request/response? The locking seems simple
enough, is there something I'm missing?
Re: [9fans] extending xen to allow driver development in Plan 9
> Should we set up queues for request/response?
Not necessarily a queue because I don't think there's a guarantee that
responses come in the same order as requests. Maybe a hash table of
requests awaiting responses?
> The locking seems simple
> enough, is there something I'm missing?[/color]
No, it should be simple. I just hadn't got around to it yet.
Again: (self)hosted Plan9? Was: [9fans] extending xen to allow driverdevelopment in Plan 9
"ron minnich" <firstname.lastname@example.org> writes:
> We have an ok xen environment going. Why are we doing this? Per a
> certain person at xyz.com, we are looking at giving people a usable
> xen-based plan 9 environment, and at the same time letting them do
> driver work from Plan 9 by "poking holes" in Xen to let Plan 9 at the
> real hardware. Xen supports this, we think, although we have not got
> it going yet ...
> I already like the situation thus far, as Plan 9 under Xen is a ton
> faster than Plan 9 under qemu. You have to see it to believe it; if
> anything, the Xen advantage is better than it used to be. I was
I have a similar situation:
- Xen helps me run several Plan9's one the same hardware
- I can give my users a Plan9 environment without taking away the OS
they are used to work with
- Xen is much faster then Qemu, ok for production use
- as Richard Miller said: ".. the whole point of xen is that physical
devices become Somebody Else's Problem."
However I think that the same goals could be achieved more natural,
even faster, more stable and more generally aplicable if Plan9 could
be run (self)hosted.
The Hurd can be run as a user space process inside The Hurd. Made
feasable because of its multi-server nature: the Kernel almost does
not do I/O. Thus The Hurd allegedly can be debugged and developed
I guess the Plan9 Kernel could be separated in two layers, the upper
one just doing "high-level" and 9P-protocol stuff, and a lower one,
providing the #-channel interfaces to the upper layer and doing I/O.
The lower layer could either be comprised of hardware drivers for the
real hardware, or a hosting layer which intermediates between the
block devices and memory managment operations of a certain hosting
operating system and the #-channel interface to the upper layer.
Maybe this approach could also clean up the duplication of code
between 9loader and kernel I have read about in some Plan9 document.
Hardware driver development could also be eased by this approach,
since it is probably easier to pass certain hardware through to a
Linux process (the hosted Plan9 instance), than to go through the
complexities of Xen-Hypervisor - dom0 Linux - domU Plan9 interaction.
And: I know that this approach probably would increase complexity and
reduce performance with respect to the current Plan9 kernel.
Initially I have started to browse the Plan9 kernel source code, Linux
kernel docs, x86 assembler manuals etc., but I realized very fast,
that my spare time will never be sufficient to spot out all required
points to get anywhere with such a project. However maybe there are
some folks out there who like the idea and have the knowledge to do