Re: [9fans] Re: Building GCC - Plan9

This is a discussion on Re: [9fans] Re: Building GCC - Plan9 ; > You might as well build > something *you* find useful. that's good advice, and too often overlooked. another benefit is that software quality is much better if the designer/developer is also a frequent user of it. not very scientific, ...

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Thread: Re: [9fans] Re: Building GCC

  1. Re: [9fans] Re: Building GCC

    > You might as well build
    > something *you* find useful.


    that's good advice, and too often overlooked. another benefit is that
    software quality is much better if the designer/developer is also a
    frequent user of it. not very scientific, but it seems like IDE's are
    always better than the software developed using them.


  2. Re: [9fans] Re: Building GCC

    > I think the point is that people talk a big talk about how great Plan
    > 9 is,


    That's 'cos it is.

    > but then don't do a damn thing with it.


    Uh, sorry?

    A month or so ago, I sat in a room with a bunch of
    like- and unlike-minded people and discussed
    everything from linguistics to supercomputing on plan9 and/or inferno.

    Lots of people are busy doing various things, damned or otherwise,
    with plan9.

    If by "a damn thing" you really mean "a damned thing that some
    particular set of people want",
    or "a damn thing that you want", well, that's a different matter.

    > At least, that's how I read it.


    Perception is everything.

    Another point of view:
    as has been said before:
    plan9 has been failing for 20 years.
    That's longer than most.

    DaveL


  3. Re: [9fans] Re: Building GCC

    On 1/25/08, dave.l@mac.com wrote:
    > > I think the point is that people talk a big talk about how great Plan
    > > 9 is,

    >
    > That's 'cos it is.
    >


    It is pretty great.

    > > but then don't do a damn thing with it.

    >
    > Uh, sorry?
    >
    > A month or so ago, I sat in a room with a bunch of
    > like- and unlike-minded people and discussed
    > everything from linguistics to supercomputing on plan9 and/or inferno.
    >


    Yeah, I was there too. It was great.

    > Lots of people are busy doing various things, damned or otherwise,
    > with plan9.
    >


    I'm currently employed to work on Plan 9 on supercomputers and other
    things. When I say some people aren't doing a damn thing, I'm not
    referring to everyone. There are some really cool things being done
    with Plan 9, but there's also the weekly "Here's an idea for a new
    filesystem/program what do you think" that never results in any code.
    I'm just saying that there seem to be more than a few 9fans who love
    to post and talk on IRC about how great it is, but have yet to do much
    more than get a tip9ug account and log in a few times.

    > If by "a damn thing" you really mean "a damned thing that some
    > particular set of people want",
    > or "a damn thing that you want", well, that's a different matter.
    >
    > > At least, that's how I read it.

    >
    > Perception is everything.
    >
    > Another point of view:
    > as has been said before:
    > plan9 has been failing for 20 years.
    > That's longer than most.
    >
    > DaveL
    >


    Actually, Windows, MacOS, UNIX, and VMS have all been failing longer
    and harder

    John
    --
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

  4. Re: [9fans] Re: Building GCC

    On Jan 25, 2008, at 10:08 PM, John Floren wrote:

    >>

    >
    > Actually, Windows, MacOS, UNIX, and VMS have all been failing longer
    > and harder
    >
    > John
    > --
    > Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn


    Windows, UNIX, VMS I can understand. But MacOS? If you mean pre-OS X,
    then I understand :-)

    I like both Mac OS X and Plan 9, which is why I run Plan 9 under QEMU
    on Mac OS X.


  5. Re: [9fans] Re: Building GCC

    On Jan 25, 2008 4:04 PM, wrote:
    > > why use Plan 9 at all if every mainstream operating system is 'workable'?
    > > i guess workable is not the point.

    >
    > I don't get it, why does Plan 9 have to behave like Linux or Windows?
    > There are tractors, tracks and lamborghinis and no one expects the
    > first to travel at the speed of sound, the second to pull ploughs or
    > the last to carry furniture around.
    >
    > Yet they all use the internal combustion engine and have wheels at the
    > four corners. Even the user interface is moderately common amongst
    > them.
    >
    > ++L
    >
    >


    you got me wrong.

    iru

  6. Re: [9fans] importing web browsers (was Building GCC)

    On Jan 25, 2008 3:50 PM, wrote:
    > Which is due to the complexity of the task it needs to perform with a
    > high degree of accuracy. Given (a) that there aren't enough Plan 9
    > developers to construct a piece of software of Firefox's magnitude,
    > (b) that Firefox is not very likely to be ported to Plan 9 because,
    > again, there aren't enough developers to do it and (c) that the web is
    > not even remotely likely to stand still long enough to be called a
    > "standard", whichever aspect you wish to consider it from:
    >
    > it just isn't going to happen!
    >
    > Learn to live with it. Or show me how you expect it will happen.
    >


    abaco.
    I don't expect it to happen. I help writing it.

    iru

  7. Re: [9fans] importing web browsers (was Building GCC)

    On Jan 26, 2008 1:47 PM, Iruata Souza wrote:
    > On Jan 25, 2008 3:50 PM, wrote:
    > > Which is due to the complexity of the task it needs to perform with a
    > > high degree of accuracy. Given (a) that there aren't enough Plan 9
    > > developers to construct a piece of software of Firefox's magnitude,
    > > (b) that Firefox is not very likely to be ported to Plan 9 because,
    > > again, there aren't enough developers to do it and (c) that the web is
    > > not even remotely likely to stand still long enough to be called a
    > > "standard", whichever aspect you wish to consider it from:
    > >
    > > it just isn't going to happen!
    > >
    > > Learn to live with it. Or show me how you expect it will happen.
    > >

    >
    > abaco.
    > I don't expect it to happen. I help writing it.
    >


    s/don't expect/not only

    iru

  8. Re: [9fans] Re: Building GCC

    > I'm currently employed to work on Plan 9 on supercomputers and other
    > things. When I say some people aren't doing a damn thing, I'm not
    > referring to everyone. There are some really cool things being done
    > with Plan 9, but there's also the weekly "Here's an idea for a new
    > filesystem/program what do you think" that never results in any code.
    > I'm just saying that there seem to be more than a few 9fans who love
    > to post and talk on IRC about how great it is, but have yet to do much
    > more than get a tip9ug account and log in a few times.


    i don't think mentioning an idea on 9fans is a commitment
    in blood to finish the project. not everyone can count a plan 9
    day job among their blessings.

    - erik

  9. Re: [9fans] Re: Building GCC

    On Jan 27, 2008 9:11 PM, erik quanstrom wrote:
    >
    > i don't think mentioning an idea on 9fans is a commitment
    > in blood to finish the project. not everyone can count a plan 9
    > day job among their blessings.
    >


    Yes.

    Only Inferno requires blood oaths.

    -Louis Sofer

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