I'm a longtime Palm veteran. Not quite PalmPilot, but definitely early
Palm III. I've owned at least seven, and my wife has owned at least 4.

I've been a big DateBk fan for years.

I've migrated to the iPhone, but I still sync an old Tungsten E|2 to
Outlook/Exchange at work. The iPhone migration makes clear how
brilliant the original Palm design philosophy was. There are many
things the iPhone struggles to do that my first Palm did exceedingly
well.

If you're someone who, like me, feels compelled to switch (maybe an OS
X user, Palm pretty much abandoned us), or if you'd like something to
show Windows Palm users to prove that they should stay where they are,
I wrote a summary post about my transition:

http://tech.kateva.org/2008/08/palm-...e-summary.html

The summary post references may other posts for more detail.

To put it mildly, it was a tough transition. If you're happy with your
Palm today you don't want to try this move!

john
jfaughnan@spamcop.net

tags: jfaughnan, jgfaughnan, outlook, Palm, iPhone, OS X, migration,
transition, synchronization, PDA, PIM

Previously on comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, jfaughnan said:

> I'm a longtime Palm veteran. Not quite PalmPilot, but definitely early
> Palm III. I've owned at least seven, and my wife has owned at least 4.

I started with a Palm IIIx. I then upgraded through three Sony Clies,
then to a Kyocera 7135 smartphone (Verizon), then two Palm Treos
(Cingular/AT&T). My last was a Treo 680.

I now use an iPhone.

> I've been a big DateBk fan for years.

Same here, ever since DateBk3. I've owned every version since, and
I've beta tested most.

> I've migrated to the iPhone, but I still sync an old Tungsten E|2 to
> Outlook/Exchange at work. The iPhone migration makes clear how
> brilliant the original Palm design philosophy was. There are many
> things the iPhone struggles to do that my first Palm did exceedingly
> well.

I'm having almost the exact opposite reaction. I'm finding that the
iPhone does damn near everything I need with much less muss and fuss
than the Palm. There are two things I'm waiting on before I can send
my Treo into permanent retirement, and they're both from Ilium Software
- a conduit for eWallet and ListPro + conduit.

I certainly don't miss the regular crashes on the Treo that cause the
entire device to reset. About half of the "must have" programs I have
on the Treo are there for no reason other than to compensate for bugs
in the OS (note that is not half of the installed stuff, just the "must
have" stuff).

> To put it mildly, it was a tough transition. If you're happy with your

I had an easy transition.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"If I am ever the Hero top 100 list: #17. I shall arrange my personal
affairs so that it doesn't matter if someone learns my secret
identity.

On Aug 19, 5:40*pm, Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
> > To put it mildly, it was a tough transition. If you're happy with your
> I had an easy transition.

I was quite puzzled when you wrote that, but then I realized you were
probably synching your Treo to Outlook, and your iPhone to Outlook.

If you didn't rely on Tasks or Notes, that woudn't be a bad transition
at all.

I was moving from synchronizing a Palm on XP/Outlook 2003 to
synchronizing an iPhone on OS X, and I'm very dependent on Tasks and,
to a lesser extent, on Notes.

john
jfaughnan@spamcop.net
tags: jfaughnan, jgfaughnan, Palm, iPhone, Outlook, OS X, Mac
transition, migration.

In message
<136f2353-8d4e-4735-8d54-2404062412e1@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
jfaughnan wrote:

>On Aug 19, 5:40*pm, Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
>> > To put it mildly, it was a tough transition. If you're happy with your
>> I had an easy transition.
>
>I was quite puzzled when you wrote that, but then I realized you were
>probably synching your Treo to Outlook, and your iPhone to Outlook.
>
>If you didn't rely on Tasks or Notes, that woudn't be a bad transition
>at all.
>
>I was moving from synchronizing a Palm on XP/Outlook 2003 to
>synchronizing an iPhone on OS X, and I'm very dependent on Tasks and,
>to a lesser extent, on Notes.

WebIS (makers of PocketInformant on Windows Mobile) are working on a
full PIM package for the iPhone, including synchronization tools.

I'm holding out for that. Even if Apple added Tasks, if it's as
lackluster as the Calendar and/or lacking an API (also like the
Calendar) then I see it's icon going on my "junk icons I sure wish I
could hide or delete" page.

The iPhone is a nice device, but it's abundantly clear that Apple has no
intention of competing in the business world, at least with the status
of the software right now.

In message Jeffrey
Kaplan wrote:

>There are two things I'm waiting on before I can send
>my Treo into permanent retirement, and they're both from Ilium Software
>- a conduit for eWallet and ListPro + conduit.

My list would be an eWallet conduit, functional task list, API for
Calendar and Tasks, and ReDo.

In my case, I actually sold my Treo and pulled my LifeDrive out of
retirement just to run ReDo, for my other PDA needs I'm using my AT&T
TILT as a wifi enabled business PDA (no SIM card) and the iPhone as my
personal phone+gaming+browsing toy.

The combination works well for me, although I wouldn't mind eliminating
the LifeDrive from the picture.

"DevilsPGD" wrote in message
news:81bna4ts38ho3apnj2q2vi6c4c37cfgim7@4ax.com...



> The iPhone is a nice device, but it's abundantly clear that Apple has no
> intention of competing in the business world, at least with the status
> of the software right now.

Absolutely. I have an iPod Touch (luckily I didn't pay for it) and in my
opinion it's a triumph of form over content. I've been using Psions and
Palms for many years. The iTouch is not an advance except it's prettier. I
know it can play music and show videos but so can many other devices that
don't pretend to be PDAs. About the only useful app is iPlayer from the BBC;
that's brilliant; pity the BBC won't allow it to stream radio live and pity
Apple doesn't have a RealPlayer for the iPhone/iTouch to allow streamed BBC
radio.

- No way to sync with anything except a Mac or Microsoft Outlook - I don't
use either.
- No cut/copy & paste
- No Java; Apple won't allow it
- No Flash; Apple won't allow it.
- No way to categorise apps on the "desktop" or to put them into folders
- WiFi not properly implemented - can't find an already paired but hidden
network
- No "serious" apps that don't rely on a Wifi connection to the web/internet
- No way to put e-mails into folders unless the folders are already defined
on Outlook/Mac
- No way to search e-mail
- No way to sort e-mail - by sender, by subject, ...
- Cannot copy *individual* photos from iTunes; must "sync" and entire folder

More ...

Harold Fuchs
London, England

On Aug 20, 4:53*am, DevilsPGD wrote:
> >I was moving from synchronizing a Palm on XP/Outlook 2003 to
> >synchronizing an iPhone on OS X, and I'm very dependent on Tasks and,
> >to a lesser extent, on Notes.
> WebIS (makers of PocketInformant on Windows Mobile) are working on a
> full PIM package for the iPhone, including synchronization tools.

Thansk for the heads-up! Yes, Apple's desktop PIM apps are extremely
simple compared to the PIM apps I knew in the 90s, or even compared to
Microsoft Outlook. (Which has its moments of genius.) They are more
sophisticated than the Palm Desktop, though that's not obvious.

If you buy Bento ($50) you get much more access to the data. I'll
probably be doing that -- but I completely agree that Apple is not
aiming at people like us.

Thanks for the WebIS tip. I sure hope they're able to negotiate access
to the USB cable. Apple has only allowed one vendor (Missing Sync) to
do anything across the cable. Everyone else is hacking strange
kludges.

To get back to Palm, I just read a NYT article on Rubinstein's work at
Palm. I sure hope he succeeds! It sounded encouraging -- though I've
seen 8 years of false dawns at Palm. If he can resurrect Palm then
Apple will have a righteous competitor.

I'm unlikely to switch back, but every longtime Apple customer prays
heartily that Apple has serious competition. They don't do well when
they're too far ahead.

Previously on comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, jfaughnan said:

> On Aug 19, 5:40*pm, Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
> > > To put it mildly, it was a tough transition. If you're happy with your
> > I had an easy transition.
>
> I was quite puzzled when you wrote that, but then I realized you were
> probably synching your Treo to Outlook, and your iPhone to Outlook.

Yes, I sync to Outlook.

> If you didn't rely on Tasks or Notes, that woudn't be a bad transition
> at all.

I now use a non-encrypted 'wallet' in eWallet for my notes. I already
mentioned that the eWallet conduit is one of the things I'm waiting on.
I was never much of a Tasks/ToDo user, never really saw the need for it
myself. If it's a schedule thing, it goes into the calendar. If it's
more like a list of errands, it always went into ListPro (the other
thing I'm still waiting on for the iPhone).

Different people, different uses. The feature set on the iPhone works
FOR ME, and, apparently, for millions of others. However, if you are
more of a business user, then I would understand the difficulty.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"If I am ever the Hero top 100 list: #17. I shall arrange my personal
affairs so that it doesn't matter if someone learns my secret
identity.

Previously on comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Harold Fuchs said:

> - No Java; Apple won't allow it

Not a problem for me. I have never, ever, found an application on any
platform I've used written in Java that worked well or behaved right.
They've all been incredibly slow, over-large for their functions,
clunky to use, and didn't interact with their host environment well, if
at all.

> - No Flash; Apple won't allow it.

What's it needed for? With no Flash, that also means none of those
annoying ads in Safari.

> - No way to categorise apps on the "desktop" or to put them into folders

I stopped using categories in my Palm launcher a year ago. There are
no categories for shortcuts on my desktop, either.

> - WiFi not properly implemented - can't find an already paired but hidden
> network

I haven't tried since I don't know of any hidden networks, but have you
tried using the "Other" entry? It's there specifically so you can
manually join a network that isn't listed. If someone is not
broadcasting the SSID, they're doing it for a reason.

> - No "serious" apps that don't rely on a Wifi connection to the web/internet

Please explain what a '"serious' app' is.

> - No way to put e-mails into folders unless the folders are already defined
> on Outlook/Mac

I assume you're referring to an IMAP account. Why are you trying to
use the iPhone as your primary email client? Why don't you already
have your folders configured?

> - Cannot copy *individual* photos from iTunes; must "sync" and entire folder

Or collections from Photoshop Elements or iPhoto.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"If I am ever the Hero top 100 list: #17. I shall arrange my personal
affairs so that it doesn't matter if someone learns my secret
identity.

In message "Harold Fuchs"
wrote:

>
>"DevilsPGD" wrote in message
>news:81bna4ts38ho3apnj2q2vi6c4c37cfgim7@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>> The iPhone is a nice device, but it's abundantly clear that Apple has no
>> intention of competing in the business world, at least with the status
>> of the software right now.
>
>Absolutely. I have an iPod Touch (luckily I didn't pay for it) and in my
>opinion it's a triumph of form over content. I've been using Psions and
>Palms for many years. The iTouch is not an advance except it's prettier. I
>know it can play music and show videos but so can many other devices that
>don't pretend to be PDAs. About the only useful app is iPlayer from the BBC;
>that's brilliant; pity the BBC won't allow it to stream radio live and pity
>Apple doesn't have a RealPlayer for the iPhone/iTouch to allow streamed BBC
>radio.

In all cases I'm assuming you're on OS2.0.0 or higher, if not, then some
of my comments won't apply.

>- No way to sync with anything except a Mac or Microsoft Outlook - I don't
>use either.

Synthesis' SyncML will synchronize your Contacts to a SyncML server.
Funambol will try, but it's not as reliable as I'd like.

>- No cut/copy & paste

But but but, information flows between apps so seamlessly that you don't
need it. Or so I was told by three different fanbois.

I came up with about a dozen places I would have used copy and paste
that didn't "flow", without any feedback, so I assume it's possible, I'm
just not in the right clique.

>- No Java; Apple won't allow it
>- No Flash; Apple won't allow it.

I consider these two a feature, not a bug, at least until something like
Firefox's scriptblock and adblock+ show up.

>- No way to categorise apps on the "desktop" or to put them into folders

If you have either the 1.x email client add-on, or 2.x, press and hold
an icon, then drag it to the right, it will move to a new page.

You can have several pages (I'm not sure if there is an upper limit)

>- WiFi not properly implemented - can't find an already paired but hidden
>network

Your wifi is broken. Fix it. (In case you aren't aware, either the
device or the access point needs to broadcast. The 802.11abgn standards
were designed to have the AP broadcast for strong technical reasons)

>- No "serious" apps that don't rely on a Wifi connection to the web/internet

What "serious" app do you want? I have a little app that tracks and
charts my weight, it's not particularly comical, so I'd call it serious,
and it works off-line.

>- No way to put e-mails into folders unless the folders are already defined
>on Outlook/Mac

Or on your IMAP server.

>- No way to search e-mail
>- No way to sort e-mail - by sender, by subject, ...

Indeed. The email client is alright for keeping up with new messages,
but it's sub-par for an even moderate user.

>- Cannot copy *individual* photos from iTunes; must "sync" and entire folder

You can email the photo to yourself, and save it from there. Yes, a
cheap hack, but sometimes a workaround is better then nothing.

In article ,
spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net says...
> In message Jeffrey
> Kaplan wrote:
>
> >There are two things I'm waiting on before I can send
> >my Treo into permanent retirement, and they're both from Ilium Software
> >- a conduit for eWallet and ListPro + conduit.
>
> My list would be an eWallet conduit, functional task list, API for
> Calendar and Tasks, and ReDo.
>
> In my case, I actually sold my Treo and pulled my LifeDrive out of
> retirement just to run ReDo, for my other PDA needs I'm using my AT&T
> TILT as a wifi enabled business PDA (no SIM card) and the iPhone as my
> personal phone+gaming+browsing toy.
>
> The combination works well for me, although I wouldn't mind eliminating
> the LifeDrive from the picture.
>

Just to join in, and as a "one-up" ....

I started with the original - the VERY first - PalmPilot mark 1. Then
went through several, and finally stayed with the Tungsten C, complete
with WiFi.

The three apps that I use more than any other on there, that so far
haven't been replicated on my new iPhone, are:

- Datebk6 (or 5 even)

- JFile - I use it every day, I have databases set up for my patients
in hospital, case-based databases, all sorts of things. So far, I've
been unable to find a similar database app for the iPhone. JFile is
brilliant - I've been using it for years.

- InfoSelect for Palm - as I use InfoSelect on PC (and on a Macbook Pro
under VMWare). The best free-form database bar none. Still the fastest
- virtually instantaneous - search of any database I've ever tried. If
you haven't seen it, check out www.miclog.com I've used it since
version 1, and am now on the latest version. Their Palm version syncs
perfectly with the desktop version in both directions. I've emailed
them to put in a request for an iPhone version, but they say that they
haven't had enough requests to make it worthwhile, given that InfoSelect
doesn't run native under Mac OS - it's a PC program. Not sure of their
logic there, given that a large proportion of iPhone users would be PC
users too..... maybe sync via MobileMe?

Until these apps are replicated on the iPhone, I'll be carrying the Palm
Tungsten C around in the briefcase as well as the iPhone in my pocket.

--

NightStalker

Previously on comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, NightStalker said:

> haven't had enough requests to make it worthwhile, given that InfoSelect
> doesn't run native under Mac OS - it's a PC program. Not sure of their
> logic there, given that a large proportion of iPhone users would be PC
> users too..... maybe sync via MobileMe?

The logic is probably that the OS of the iPhone is a scaled down and
modified version of Mac OS X.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"Get the Hell out of my chair." (Capt. Sheridan to Mr. Bester, B5
"Ship of Tears")

Responses embedded.
"Jeffrey Kaplan" wrote in message
news:0dfoa4tcpfbd4kgmg1pvkbm8l0950tg3d1@gordol.org ...
> Previously on comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Harold Fuchs said:
>
>> - No Java; Apple won't allow it
>
> Not a problem for me. I have never, ever, found an application on any
> platform I've used written in Java that worked well or behaved right.
> They've all been incredibly slow, over-large for their functions,
> clunky to use, and didn't interact with their host environment well, if
> at all.

Java allows cross platform development to a much higher level than most
other languages. Check out www.styletap.com for just one interesting
example. I am not connected with this company in any way; I just want to buy
its software from my iPod Touch.

>
>> - No Flash; Apple won't allow it.
>
> What's it needed for? With no Flash, that also means none of those
> annoying ads in Safari.

True no ads but also no "lots of other things"

>
>> - No way to categorise apps on the "desktop" or to put them into folders
>
> I stopped using categories in my Palm launcher a year ago. There are
> no categories for shortcuts on my desktop, either.

On your desktop you can make folders of similar applications - games, share
analysis programs, dictionaries, ...

>
>> - WiFi not properly implemented - can't find an already paired but hidden
>> network
>
> I haven't tried since I don't know of any hidden networks, but have you
> tried using the "Other" entry? It's there specifically so you can
> manually join a network that isn't listed. If someone is not
> broadcasting the SSID, they're doing it for a reason.

The idea is that once a network is known it is findable without it having to
braodcast its SSID. Just like my WiFi notebook find my router; I have to
supply the password but not the network details.

>
>> - No "serious" apps that don't rely on a Wifi connection to the
>> web/internet
>
> Please explain what a '"serious' app' is.

For years on my Palm I have been able to create, edit and read Word and
Excel documents and to synchronise them freely between the Palm and my PC.
This software "came in the box" with my Palm; yes I have upgraded it a
couple of times over the years but the basic application came with the
device.

My Psion had a built-in database manager. I can get free DBMs for the Palm
(ThinkDB for example) and any number of non-free DBMs. Can I
create/edit/sync a database to my iTouch?

Can't use the iTouch as a storage device.

Offline maps with [homemade]overlays

News Groups

The only way to make the iTouch useful is to "jailbreak" it. Apple's
restrictive practices won't allow application development that doesn't use
its SDK.

>
>> - No way to put e-mails into folders unless the folders are already
>> defined
>> on Outlook/Mac
>
> I assume you're referring to an IMAP account. Why are you trying to
> use the iPhone as your primary email client? Why don't you already
> have your folders configured?

Just my Googlemail account which I read with Thunderbird (no Sync to iTouch)
or with a web browesr depending on where I am; again no Sync. Why do I have
to depend on something like Outlook? Making folders isn't exactly hard. If I
could sync, Synchronisation is a two way street - what I create on the PC
goes to the iTouch and what I create on the iTouch goes to the PC. Except I
can't create anything on the iTouch. It's just shoddy thinking.

>
>> - Cannot copy *individual* photos from iTunes; must "sync" and entire
>> folder
>
> Or collections from Photoshop Elements or iPhoto.

Sorry, I don't understand this comment.


Sorry for the delay in responding ...

Regards, Harold

Responses embedded.
"DevilsPGD" wrote in message
news:8p6pa45vc3ot0k7fbhhe5k3ccncr986olj@4ax.com...
> In message "Harold Fuchs"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"DevilsPGD" wrote in message
>>news:81bna4ts38ho3apnj2q2vi6c4c37cfgim7@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>> The iPhone is a nice device, but it's abundantly clear that Apple has no
>>> intention of competing in the business world, at least with the status
>>> of the software right now.
>>
>>Absolutely. I have an iPod Touch (luckily I didn't pay for it) and in my
>>opinion it's a triumph of form over content. I've been using Psions and
>>Palms for many years. The iTouch is not an advance except it's prettier. I
>>know it can play music and show videos but so can many other devices that
>>don't pretend to be PDAs. About the only useful app is iPlayer from the
>>BBC;
>>that's brilliant; pity the BBC won't allow it to stream radio live and
>>pity
>>Apple doesn't have a RealPlayer for the iPhone/iTouch to allow streamed
>>BBC
>>radio.
>
> In all cases I'm assuming you're on OS2.0.0 or higher, if not, then some
> of my comments won't apply.

Yes.

>
>>- No way to sync with anything except a Mac or Microsoft Outlook - I don't
>>use either.
>
> Synthesis' SyncML will synchronize your Contacts to a SyncML server.

I note the future tense "will ...". You make my point nicely; thank you.

> Funambol will try, but it's not as reliable as I'd like.
>
>>- No cut/copy & paste
>
> But but but, information flows between apps so seamlessly that you don't
> need it. Or so I was told by three different fanbois.

How do I enter a password from my encrypted password storage application
into a web form? Or a phone number that isn't encryped from the Notes
application into an e-mail?

>
> I came up with about a dozen places I would have used copy and paste
> that didn't "flow", without any feedback, so I assume it's possible, I'm
> just not in the right clique.

No it's not possible; there is a scheme that sends the data (copy) to the
web (yes, really) and then downloads it into the receiving app (paste) but
....
>
>>- No Java; Apple won't allow it
>>- No Flash; Apple won't allow it.
>
> I consider these two a feature, not a bug, at least until something like
> Firefox's scriptblock and adblock+ show up.

Please see my responses to Mr. Kaplan's message. Take a look at Styletap.

>
>>- No way to categorise apps on the "desktop" or to put them into folders
>
> If you have either the 1.x email client add-on, or 2.x, press and hold
> an icon, then drag it to the right, it will move to a new page.
>
> You can have several pages (I'm not sure if there is an upper limit)

Yes. That's possible. I have several pages. But you can't sort them
alphabetically and re-aranging them is a complete pain in the fundament.
What's wrong with folders?

>
>>- WiFi not properly implemented - can't find an already paired but hidden
>>network
>
> Your wifi is broken. Fix it. (In case you aren't aware, either the
> device or the access point needs to broadcast. The 802.11abgn standards
> were designed to have the AP broadcast for strong technical reasons)

No. A device should offer a known network and connect to it when the
password is supplied. The iTouch doesn't.
>
>>- No "serious" apps that don't rely on a Wifi connection to the
>>web/internet
>
> What "serious" app do you want? I have a little app that tracks and
> charts my weight, it's not particularly comical, so I'd call it serious,
> and it works off-line.

Please see my responses to Mr Kaplan. Word/Excel, database managers,
newsgroups, ...

>
>>- No way to put e-mails into folders unless the folders are already
>>defined
>>on Outlook/Mac
>
> Or on your IMAP server.

Please see my response to Mr. Kaplan
>
>>- No way to search e-mail
>>- No way to sort e-mail - by sender, by subject, ...
>
> Indeed. The email client is alright for keeping up with new messages,
> but it's sub-par for an even moderate user.
>
>>- Cannot copy *individual* photos from iTunes; must "sync" and entire
>>folder
>
> You can email the photo to yourself, and save it from there. Yes, a
> cheap hack, but sometimes a workaround is better then nothing.

Really shouldn't be necessary. Just another example of the poor design.

Sorry for the delay in responding ...
Regards, Harold

Previously on comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Harold Fuchs said:

> >> - No Java; Apple won't allow it
> >
> > Not a problem for me. I have never, ever, found an application on any
> > platform I've used written in Java that worked well or behaved right.
> > They've all been incredibly slow, over-large for their functions,
> > clunky to use, and didn't interact with their host environment well, if
> > at all.
>
> Java allows cross platform development to a much higher level than most
> other languages. Check out www.styletap.com for just one interesting

In no way does that even come close to addressing my stated problem
with Java.

> >> - No Flash; Apple won't allow it.
> >
> > What's it needed for? With no Flash, that also means none of those
> > annoying ads in Safari.
> True no ads but also no "lots of other things"

So far, I have not found any problem on my iPhone caused by a lack of
Flash.

> > I stopped using categories in my Palm launcher a year ago. There are
> > no categories for shortcuts on my desktop, either.
>
> On your desktop you can make folders of similar applications - games, share
> analysis programs, dictionaries, ...

Why would I want to create a folder on my desktop? I put shortcuts on
the Desktop for easy one-click access. Using folders defeats that
purpose, I may as well just use the Start menu.

> >> - WiFi not properly implemented - can't find an already paired but hidden
> >> network
> >
> > I haven't tried since I don't know of any hidden networks, but have you
> > tried using the "Other" entry? It's there specifically so you can
> > manually join a network that isn't listed. If someone is not
> > broadcasting the SSID, they're doing it for a reason.
>
> The idea is that once a network is known it is findable without it having to
> braodcast its SSID. Just like my WiFi notebook find my router; I have to
> supply the password but not the network details.

So even after using the Other entry to add the wireless details once,
it doesn't remember them for later?

> > Please explain what a '"serious' app' is.
> For years on my Palm I have been able to create, edit and read Word and
> Excel documents and to synchronise them freely between the Palm and my PC.
> This software "came in the box" with my Palm; yes I have upgraded it a
> couple of times over the years but the basic application came with the
> device.

Ah, Docs2Go. Yeah, I sort-of miss that. I didn't do much editing from
my Treo, but I do need to view some office docs. There are several
ways of getting that much, at least. The most basic is to email the
file to yourself and retrieve it with the iPhone/iTouch. There are a
few direct via WiFi apps in the App Store now, I use "Files".

> My Psion had a built-in database manager. I can get free DBMs for the Palm
> (ThinkDB for example) and any number of non-free DBMs. Can I
> create/edit/sync a database to my iTouch?

Ilium is working on bringing ListPro to the iPhone, complete with
syncing to ListPro on the desktop.

> Can't use the iTouch as a storage device.

Yes you can. See "Files", "DataCase", "FileMagnet", etc, in the App
Store.

> Offline maps with [homemade]overlays

jpgs?

> News Groups

Meh. IMO the device is too small for "serious" usenet use.

> The only way to make the iTouch useful is to "jailbreak" it. Apple's

I'm just waiting on ListPro before I can completely retire my Treo.

> >> - No way to put e-mails into folders unless the folders are already
> >> defined
> >> on Outlook/Mac
> >
> > I assume you're referring to an IMAP account. Why are you trying to
> > use the iPhone as your primary email client? Why don't you already
> > have your folders configured?
>
> Just my Googlemail account which I read with Thunderbird (no Sync to iTouch)
> or with a web browesr depending on where I am; again no Sync. Why do I have
> to depend on something like Outlook? Making folders isn't exactly hard. If I

You only need Outlook on the PC for your address book. There may be
other options, I haven't looked because I was already using Outlook for
my desktop PIM with my Treo. Make the IMAP folder with whatever mail
client you're using on the desktop and when you next check for mail
with the iPhone/iTouch it'll read the server and add the new folder to
your local setup. That's how IMAP works.

> could sync, Synchronisation is a two way street - what I create on the PC
> goes to the iTouch and what I create on the iTouch goes to the PC. Except I
> can't create anything on the iTouch. It's just shoddy thinking.

Not shoddy thinking, just a very basic client.

> >> - Cannot copy *individual* photos from iTunes; must "sync" and entire
> >> folder
> >
> > Or collections from Photoshop Elements or iPhoto.
>
> Sorry, I don't understand this comment.

If you use Photoshop Elements or iPhoto, you can use them to create
photo collections independent of what folder the photos are in and sync
those collections.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"Let me pass on to you the one thing I've learned about this place: No
one here is exactly what he appears." (Amb. G'Kar, B5 "Mind War")

In message "Harold Fuchs"
wrote:

>Responses embedded.
>"DevilsPGD" wrote in message
>news:8p6pa45vc3ot0k7fbhhe5k3ccncr986olj@4ax.com...
>> In message "Harold Fuchs"
>> wrote:
>>>- No way to sync with anything except a Mac or Microsoft Outlook - I don't
>>>use either.
>>
>> Synthesis' SyncML will synchronize your Contacts to a SyncML server.
>
>I note the future tense "will ...". You make my point nicely; thank you.

I suspect you're confused -- The software is available today, it will
synchronize your Contacts to a SyncML server, all you have to do is
install it.

>> Funambol will try, but it's not as reliable as I'd like.
>>
>>>- No cut/copy & paste
>>
>> But but but, information flows between apps so seamlessly that you don't
>> need it. Or so I was told by three different fanbois.
>
>How do I enter a password from my encrypted password storage application
>into a web form? Or a phone number that isn't encryped from the Notes
>application into an e-mail?

Yeah, that was my point. Or even just dial a phone number from the web
that isn't correctly formatted. Or copy data from a website generated
"receipt" to another app.

Copy and paste is a manual process, read it from one app, type to
another.

>>>- No Java; Apple won't allow it
>>>- No Flash; Apple won't allow it.
>>
>> I consider these two a feature, not a bug, at least until something like
>> Firefox's scriptblock and adblock+ show up.
>
>Please see my responses to Mr. Kaplan's message. Take a look at Styletap.

I'm confused -- StyleTap runs PalmOS software on other platforms, but
since neither Java nor Flash exists, how does that help?

>>>- No way to categorise apps on the "desktop" or to put them into folders
>>
>> If you have either the 1.x email client add-on, or 2.x, press and hold
>> an icon, then drag it to the right, it will move to a new page.
>>
>> You can have several pages (I'm not sure if there is an upper limit)
>
>Yes. That's possible. I have several pages. But you can't sort them
>alphabetically

You can manually. This is Apple, it's easy, just do the work yourself
rather then having your computer do the work for you!

>and re-aranging them is a complete pain in the fundament.
>What's wrong with folders?

Too difficult for small minds?

>>>- WiFi not properly implemented - can't find an already paired but hidden
>>>network
>>
>> Your wifi is broken. Fix it. (In case you aren't aware, either the
>> device or the access point needs to broadcast. The 802.11abgn standards
>> were designed to have the AP broadcast for strong technical reasons)
>
>No. A device should offer a known network and connect to it when the
>password is supplied. The iTouch doesn't.

And that it does -- However, the 802.11(a|b|g|n) standard requires
broadcasting. All wireless communication does in order to allow one
device to find another.

In the 802.11-series wifi, it's the AP's job to broadcast.

>>>- No "serious" apps that don't rely on a Wifi connection to the
>>>web/internet
>>
>> What "serious" app do you want? I have a little app that tracks and
>> charts my weight, it's not particularly comical, so I'd call it serious,
>> and it works off-line.
>
>Please see my responses to Mr Kaplan. Word/Excel, database managers,
>newsgroups, ...

A decent list of apps. I'd call those "productivity", rather then
"serious"

>>>- Cannot copy *individual* photos from iTunes; must "sync" and entire
>>>folder
>>
>> You can email the photo to yourself, and save it from there. Yes, a
>> cheap hack, but sometimes a workaround is better then nothing.
>
>Really shouldn't be necessary. Just another example of the poor design.

Yes, plenty of examples of poor design. It is what it is.

Myself, I carry an iPhone, plus a real PDA to fill in the gaps.

> > If you didn't rely on Tasks or Notes, that woudn't be a bad transition
> > at all.
>
> I now use a non-encrypted 'wallet' in eWallet for my notes. *I already
> mentioned that the eWallet conduit is one of the things I'm waiting on.
> I was never much of a Tasks/ToDo user, never really saw the need for it
> myself. *If it's a schedule thing, it goes into the calendar. *If it's
> more like a list of errands, it always went into ListPro (the other
> thing I'm still waiting on for the iPhone).

I do like ToDo.app combined with ToodleDo for tasks -- more than I
thought I would. It's nice to be able to edit the tasks anywhere, esp.
since there's no cut and paste (grrr) on my iPhone.

I like the idea of using eWallet for notes. That's neat, especially if
eWallet can import from a tab delimited Outlook Notes file.