Good bye, all - Palmtop

This is a discussion on Good bye, all - Palmtop ; On 2008-01-30, Doug Hoffman wrote: > Herbert Kanner wrote: > > >> The third E2 seemed ok except for the brain-dead memory >> manager on >> current models. Every time I wanted to load AvantGo documents, >> I had to ...

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Thread: Good bye, all

  1. Re: Good bye, all

    On 2008-01-30, Doug Hoffman wrote:
    > Herbert Kanner wrote:
    >
    >
    >> The third E2 seemed ok except for the brain-dead memory
    >> manager on
    >> current models. Every time I wanted to load AvantGo documents,
    >> I had to
    >> first do a soft reset or the E2 would crash. After quitting
    >> AvantGo,
    >> program loads would take up to one minute unless I did a
    >> second soft
    >> reset. I think they are treating memory the way everyone
    >> treats a hard
    >> disk; they permit it to fragment and the soft reset de-frags
    >> it.

    >
    > Does Palm write the Avantgo software? Unless they do it seems
    > unfair to lay those problems on Palm.


    The operating system should not allow a piece of software to
    freeze the whole machine.

    --
    -Toby
    Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.

  2. Re: Good bye, all

    On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 06:55:33 -0600, samson wrote:
    >think I started with a Palm III. But Palm doesn't seem interested
    >in upgrading its software for XP. And my daughter's Itouch is


    I'm using the Palm Desktop in 2 Xp installations with no problems at all
    (one is 32bit, the other 64bit). There's no need to upgrade anything :-)

    Aleks

  3. Re: Good bye, all

    Harold Fuchs a écrit :
    > The Nokia web site can't find an N180 ?????
    > That's the UK site www.nokia.co.uk *and* the US site www.nokiausa.com -
    > neither can find it.
    >
    >
    > Harold Fuchs
    > London, England
    >
    >



    Hi,

    It's the N770 (older version) or N800 (newer version).

    Check those sites :
    Porduct : http://www.nseries.com/products/n800/#l=products,n800
    Maemo (N800's Linux based OS) : http://maemo.org/

    Charly

  4. Re: Good bye, all

    In comp.sys.palmtops.pilot Harold Fuchs wrote:

    > "Daniel James" wrote in message
    > news:VA.000012dc.0affc279@nospam.aaisp.org...
    >>
    >> The Nokia N180 "internet tablet" is quite interesting ... cheaper than
    >> many PDAs I've bought and smaller than some; runs linux; can emulate a
    >> Palm; good battery life, too, by all accounts (if you don't use it all
    >> up playing video). Worth a look.
    >>

    > The Nokia web site can't find an N180 ?????
    > That's the UK site www.nokia.co.uk *and* the US site www.nokiausa.com -
    > neither can find it.


    Try "n810" instead. Previous poster made a tyop ;-).

    Can anyone speak to how well the n810 with the emulator handles PIM
    tasks?

    I'm just about fed up with my TX, and the n810 looks like a
    potentially worthy successor except for the possible lack of PIM. I
    need something that beeps or vibrates to let me know about meetings,
    and I'm not too psyched to have to pay $40+/month to my cell provider
    to get a Treo.

    -alan


    --
    Alan Hoyle - alanh@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
    "I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
    Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

  5. Re: Good bye, all

    Toby Newman wrote:

    >
    > The operating system should not allow a piece of software to
    > freeze the whole machine.


    Programmers should not rely on the OS to smooth over poorly
    written code. Programmers should also understand the
    specifications of the target OS and write code accordingly.

    I'm not saying that the current Palm OS couldn't be improved. I
    do think that using a piece of software that consistently
    misbehaves the way the OP says means something is very wrong.
    And it's not with the Palm.

    --
    Regards,
    Doug


    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  6. Re: Good bye, all

    Toby Newman wrote:
    > The operating system should not allow a piece of software to
    > freeze the whole machine.


    An operating system that sophisticated was not feasible in the Pilot
    days. The main problem that Palm has been facing for the last five years
    has been their failure to make the transition to a real operating
    system. (The first time I had to face that, it was going from DOS/360 to
    OS/360 40 years ago. The movements from MS-DOS to the NT/2000/XP/Vista
    line and from MacOS 9 to MacOS X were similar cases.)

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    "...when you're trying to build a house of cards, the last thing you
    should do is blow hard and wave your hands like a madman."
    -- Rupert Goodwins

  7. Re: Good bye, all

    John W. Kennedy schrieb:
    > Toby Newman wrote:
    >
    >> The operating system should not allow a piece of software to
    >> freeze the whole machine.


    so look at Windoze ;-)

    > An operating system that sophisticated was not feasible in the Pilot
    > days. The main problem that Palm has been facing for the last five years
    > has been their failure to make the transition to a real operating
    > system.


    the better system has been with Psion for years ;-)

    > (The first time I had to face that, it was going from DOS/360 to
    > OS/360 40 years ago. The movements from MS-DOS to the NT/2000/XP/Vista
    > line and from MacOS 9 to MacOS X were similar cases.)


    Wow... /360 sophisticated? Perhaps, but no good system. That time I
    changed from NCR-machines (and system) to IBM-machines (and /360) in the
    software development area, poor system compared to NCR. But... IBM had
    the better marketing :-(

    OS/2 had been a good system... but why people bought Win?

    juergen

  8. Re: Good bye, all

    In article news:<60e6s3F1q3o6iU1@mid.individual.net>, Alan Hoyle wrote:
    > Try "n810" instead. Previous poster made a tyop ;-).


    Exactly. Sorry about that.

    http://www.nokia.co.uk/A4630129

    or

    http://www.nokiausa.com/A4626058

    Cheers,
    Daniel.



  9. Re: Good bye, all

    On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 02:00:01PM +0000, Toby Newman wrote:
    > On 2008-01-30, Doug Hoffman wrote:
    > > Does Palm write the Avantgo software? Unless they do it seems
    > > unfair to lay those problems on Palm.

    > The operating system should not allow a piece of software to
    > freeze the whole machine.


    That's a nice ideal. Pity that there's no affordable system that can
    do it. There's certainly no PDA that can do it.

    --
    David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

    EIN KIRCHE! EIN KREDO! EIN PAPST!

  10. Re: Good bye, all

    On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:44:58 GMT, Daniel James
    wrote:

    >In article
    >news:, Herbert
    >Kanner wrote:
    >> I see the death of Palm in the not too distant future.

    >
    >People have been saying that for ages ... but Palm always seem to pull
    >a rabbit -- albeit only a stuffed toy rabbit -- out of the hat just in
    >time to keep their fluffy noses above the ordure.


    The problem is that developers are starting to move away from what as
    seen as a stagnant market and third party applications are what palm
    has thrived on. Even if Palm does pull a rabbit out of the hat in
    terms of platform, it may be too late.

    I mean, try going to palmgear.com... You'll find yourself on
    pocketgear.com. It's all symptomatic. Palm is driving its core away
    because they have lost their core focus which should be PDAs

    Rich
    --
    If you squeeze my lizard
    I'll put my snake on you
    I'm a romantic adventure
    And I'm a reptile too

  11. Re: Good bye, all

    See Ya Herbert.
    I use a T3 and I have learned how to fix the hardware faults by taking it
    apart and replacing broken screen, broken SD slot, worn out battery etc.
    Software-wise, it is now in a Zen-like state, where it never crashes and is
    my ever-obedient servant:
    Diary, contacts, todos,
    Video viewer
    GPS
    TV remote control
    The list stretches into infinity.
    I would struggle to move on, since my T3 is now part of my brain
    Mick
    PS I have moved on by buying an Asus EEE, which complements my T3. It is
    like Palm from the very early days: hacks, mods, rumours, tips. I need to
    get my gadget fix from somewhere and my T3 is too damn stable.



  12. Re: Good bye, all

    On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:16:16 +0000, Richard Thomas wrote:

    > On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:44:58 GMT, Daniel James
    > wrote:
    >
    >>In article
    >>news:, Herbert
    >>Kanner wrote:
    >>> I see the death of Palm in the not too distant future.

    >>
    >>People have been saying that for ages ... but Palm always seem to pull a
    >>rabbit -- albeit only a stuffed toy rabbit -- out of the hat just in
    >>time to keep their fluffy noses above the ordure.

    >
    > The problem is that developers are starting to move away from what as
    > seen as a stagnant market and third party applications are what palm has
    > thrived on. Even if Palm does pull a rabbit out of the hat in terms of
    > platform, it may be too late.
    >
    > I mean, try going to palmgear.com... You'll find yourself on
    > pocketgear.com. It's all symptomatic. Palm is driving its core away
    > because they have lost their core focus which should be PDAs
    >
    > Rich


    Myeah .... I've looked around, and it's hard, really _hard_, to find
    some software that is not circa-2002 (one notable exception; which is why
    I still use a Palm). Right now, I'm in the middle of trying to switch
    over to a N810, and using a Garnet VM to for a single application ...

    It might just work ....

    [NB: N810 is pretty much a suck-fest for Contact & Calendar managers -
    GPE is pretty lame, but not broken. If that shapes up, Palm is hosed.]

  13. Re: Good bye, all

    In message Thomas P Brisco
    wrote:

    >Right now, I'm in the middle of trying to switch
    >over to a N810, and using a Garnet VM to for a single application ...
    >
    >It might just work ....


    I'm debating doing a Garnet VM on my desktop for the couple applications
    I've still got left over from my Palm, ReDo being one of them.

    I'd love to find an app that can work nearly as reliably as ReDo did for
    adding tasks to my Outlook Task list (either that runs on Windows and
    talks to Outlook or SyncML, or that runs on Windows Mobile)

    I'm actually pretty close to deciding to write something myself that
    interfaces with SyncML (I already SyncML my new Windows Mobile device)

    *sigh*

    I picked up my old Treo and used it for a little while today, almost
    forgot my disgust for Palm until it decided to reboot while trying to
    load the "Tasks" app, then I remembered all too well why I finally
    switched.

  14. Re: Good bye, all

    In article news:, Richard
    Thomas wrote:
    > Palm is driving its core away because they have lost their core
    > focus which should be PDAs


    I think it's inevitable, nowadays, that any company specializing in
    PDAs will also have smartphone offerings. I think Palm is doing the
    right thing by continuing to manufacture it's PDAs alongside the Treo
    smartphones. I'd happily buy a Treo if it was as good a phone as it is
    a PDA.

    The biggest problem Palm faces is that all the advantages it gains from
    having an established user base and wealth of third-party add-on depend
    on PalmOS 5.x, and that OS is now creaking at the seams.

    Palm's early success with the first Pilots was due to the simplicity of
    the device -- it did a limited number of jobs, but did them stunningly
    well within the hardware constraints of the day. The device and OS were
    sufficiently flexible -- and sufficiently open -- that third party
    developers were able to add lots of functionality and the device came
    to be seen as a pocket computer and not just as an organizer.

    [The only real competition to Palm in those days was from Psion, whose
    devices were always intended to be pocket computers, but which were
    used only as organizers by most people. Psion were in the market for
    many years before Palm started, but their first successful mass-market
    PDA, the Series 3, only predated the first Palm Pilot by about five
    years. Psion's software was far and away better than Palm's but that
    fact tends to go unrecognized as only a small percentage of users
    really ever pushed it to its limits. The one area in which Palm really
    did excel over Psion was in compactness. The Series 3 was physically
    about a third larger than the Pilot, and significantly larger than the
    M500 and later models -- the extra size was easy to forgive if you
    valued the moving-key keyboard and larger display, but not if you
    yearned for a suped-up Rex.]

    Modern PDAs are expected to incorporate things like MP3 players, FM
    radios, TCP/IP networking, Bluetooth, and WiFi as standard. You can't
    easily support those things unless your OS can multi-task. You can
    fudge it, but it's not easy and it's not robust. Once you add a phone
    the multitasking element becomes more important still. PalmOS 5 doesn't
    really have the multi-tasking capabilities to do these things well, and
    compromises have to be made. Palm need to make a break from the old
    PalmOS 5 architecture and rediscover themselves on a platform that can
    support the applications users demand in the present, and will demand
    in the future. That's easy to see.

    The hard task facing Palm is that of switching to a different software
    architecture without sacrificing the ease of use that makes Palm
    devices such a joy to use, or breaking the third-party apps that make
    the Palm indispensable to so many of its users.

    Some years ago Palm switched from a hardware platform based on the
    Motorola 68000/DragonBall CPU to an ARM-based platform. The transition
    was admirably smooth, and -- with the exception of a few "hacks" using
    unsupported internal APIs -- all the old software continued (and
    continues) to run under emulation on the new architecture. This was no
    mean feat and Palm should be applauded for managing it so well.

    If Palm can pull that trick off once I don't see why they shouldn't do
    it again ... but they have to have the will, or they'll just faff
    around until hell freezes over.

    [Psion, by the way, went through the same hiatus some years ago. They
    replaced their aging 16-bit hardware and realtime OS (yes, realtime,
    Psions have always fully supported multitasking) with a 32-bit
    architecture based on ARM CPUs (they needed the extra addressing space)
    and produced a new range of PDAs/pocket computers called the Series 5.
    These were nice devices, but Psion didn't manage the transition as well
    as Palm manages their transition from DragonBall to ARM (which, to be
    fair, was easier as both are 32-bit designs) and many established users
    didn't upgrade, but stuck to their old devices or moved to Palm or
    WinCE. Psion itself has now pulled out of the consumer PDA market and
    gone back to its core business of industrial handheld computers (most
    of which run Windows, these days) ... but Psion's 32-bit OS lives on as
    SymbianOS -- the OS used by most of the best smartphones.]

    Palm worked hard on a PalmOS 6, which was supposed to solve all their
    problems. No PalmOS 6 device has ever been sold. I'm not sure what the
    licensees didn't like about PalmOS 6, but I'd guess the hardware
    requirements proved to be more than they thought the market would bear.
    That might be different now. Palm, though, has in the meantime sold
    half of itself off, bought itself back again, changed its name, and
    changed its name back again ... it's not clear that they know who they
    are or what they're doing any more. I hope they work out the answer to
    that soon, or it'll be too late.

    Cheers,
    Daniel.






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