one more nail to the coffin ? - Palmtop

This is a discussion on one more nail to the coffin ? - Palmtop ; I've just heard this morning that apple is working on a tablet based on OS X. Look like the return of the newton!!! Palm really need to inovate!!...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: one more nail to the coffin ?

  1. one more nail to the coffin ?

    I've just heard this morning that apple is working on a tablet based on OS X.
    Look like the return of the newton!!!

    Palm really need to inovate!!


  2. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    In article <46FBAE85.951.palmpalm002@mtlgeek.synchro.net>,
    "Ennev" wrote:

    > I've just heard this morning that apple is working on a tablet based on OS X.
    > Look like the return of the newton!!!
    >
    > Palm really need to inovate!!


    Are you just hearing about the iPhone?

  3. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:05:22 -0500, Guy Bannis wrote
    (in article ):

    > In article <46FBAE85.951.palmpalm002@mtlgeek.synchro.net>,
    > "Ennev" wrote:
    >
    >> I've just heard this morning that apple is working on a tablet based on OS
    >> X.
    >> Look like the return of the newton!!!
    >>
    >> Palm really need to inovate!!

    >
    > Are you just hearing about the iPhone?


    No, he's talking about Mac rumor sites mentioniing a Newton like device.

    --

    Tim
    lance_1012@hotmail.com


  4. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?


    "Guy Bannis" wrote in message
    news:guy-61AADC.19052227092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net ...
    > In article <46FBAE85.951.palmpalm002@mtlgeek.synchro.net>,
    > "Ennev" wrote:
    >
    >> I've just heard this morning that apple is working on a tablet based on
    >> OS X.
    >> Look like the return of the newton!!!
    >>
    >> Palm really need to inovate!!

    >
    > Are you just hearing about the iPhone?


    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...he_newton.html



  5. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:14:41 -0400, Mark B. wrote:

    > "Guy Bannis" wrote in message
    > news:guy-61AADC.19052227092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net ...
    >> In article <46FBAE85.951.palmpalm002@mtlgeek.synchro.net>, "Ennev"
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I've just heard this morning that apple is working on a tablet based
    >>> on OS X.
    >>> Look like the return of the newton!!!
    >>>
    >>> Palm really need to inovate!!

    >>
    >> Are you just hearing about the iPhone?

    >
    > http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/09/26/

    up_next_for_apple_the_return_of_the_newton.html

    About the only thing that keeps me using a Palm is Datebook6 -- has
    anyone tried Apple's iCal (that's the default calendar, no?) -- is it
    worth is, or should I be bugging Datebk6's author to port over? :-)

    Nail in the coffin, indeed. More like an additional lash for the
    proverbial dead horse ...

    - Tom

  6. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    In article ,
    Thomas P Brisco wrote:

    > On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:14:41 -0400, Mark B. wrote:
    >
    > > "Guy Bannis" wrote in message
    > > news:guy-61AADC.19052227092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net ...
    > >> In article <46FBAE85.951.palmpalm002@mtlgeek.synchro.net>, "Ennev"
    > >> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> I've just heard this morning that apple is working on a tablet based
    > >>> on OS X.
    > >>> Look like the return of the newton!!!
    > >>>
    > >>> Palm really need to inovate!!
    > >>
    > >> Are you just hearing about the iPhone?

    > >
    > > http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/09/26/

    > up_next_for_apple_the_return_of_the_newton.html
    >
    > About the only thing that keeps me using a Palm is Datebook6 -- has
    > anyone tried Apple's iCal (that's the default calendar, no?) -- is it
    > worth is, or should I be bugging Datebk6's author to port over? :-)
    >
    > Nail in the coffin, indeed. More like an additional lash for the
    > proverbial dead horse ...


    I use iCal on three Macs and I find it very useful. I keep iCal on all
    synced with my Palm Treo 700p via Missing Sync from
    http://www.markspace.com which works quite well. I have no experience
    with Datebook6.

  7. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 07:14:57AM -0500, Thomas P Brisco wrote:

    > About the only thing that keeps me using a Palm is Datebook6 ...


    About the only thing that keeps me using a Palm is that I've tried
    Windows CE (many years ago), Windows Mobile, and a Zaurus. The Palm
    beats them all hands-down and I keep going back to it.

    It will be interesting to see what Apple's version is like, whether on
    the iPhone or the iNewton (but note that rumours of a new Newton have
    been around for *years* and never come to anything. I won't believe it
    until I see 'em in the shops) but I have a nagging suspicion that
    they'll have lots and lots of shiny features which idiot reviewers gush
    about, but which get in the way of the basics that real people need.

    --
    David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

    What profiteth a man, if he win a flame war, yet lose his cool?

  8. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    On 2007-10-01 20:45:24 +0930, David Cantrell said:

    > On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 07:14:57AM -0500, Thomas P Brisco wrote:
    >
    >> About the only thing that keeps me using a Palm is Datebook6 ...

    >
    > About the only thing that keeps me using a Palm is that I've tried
    > Windows CE (many years ago), Windows Mobile, and a Zaurus. The Palm
    > beats them all hands-down and I keep going back to it.
    >
    > It will be interesting to see what Apple's version is like, whether on
    > the iPhone or the iNewton (but note that rumours of a new Newton have
    > been around for *years* and never come to anything. I won't believe it
    > until I see 'em in the shops) but I have a nagging suspicion that
    > they'll have lots and lots of shiny features which idiot reviewers gush
    > about, but which get in the way of the basics that real people need.


    The rumour of Apple doing a replacement Newton, as you say, has been
    around for a longtime. There are also strong rumours of a small
    laptop. It is possible these rumours are getting mixed up. It is also
    clear Apple works on all kinds of things at once so the fact they are
    working on a certain bit of technology now doesn't mean a product
    release is imminent or ever.

    So far as basic PDA functionality goes we have at present:

    (1) iPhone: No ToDo / Tasks although it is rumoured that these will
    come when Tasks are merged into Mail in Leopard. No third party
    applications that run on the phone -- what third party applications
    there are run under Safari and have to save data on internet somewhere
    and only work when connected to the net.

    (2) iPod Touch: Less functionality than iPhone. In particular cannot
    edit Calendar on the iPod Touch and no Email.

    Don't get me wrong I love apple products and would love to see a iPDA
    replace my old TX but I a skeptical of Steve Job's famous comments
    about `scribble pads'

    Michael



  9. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    Re: Re: one more nail to the coffin ?
    By: Guy Bannis to comp.sys.palmtops.pilot on Thu Sep 27 2007 19:05:22


    No, I agree about the iPhone, but on the PDA front it was relatively quiet, now
    with this new device Palm face competition on the "other" front.


  10. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    In article <20071001111523.GF21155@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk>,
    David Cantrell wrote:

    > but I have a nagging suspicion that
    > they'll have lots and lots of shiny features which idiot reviewers gush
    > about, but which get in the way of the basics that real people need.


    The rumor is not for a basic device. The Newton was never a basic
    device.

    So if you want only a basic device, Palm will still be your best bet.

  11. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    I must admit I was a bit disapointed when i've learned that the iTouch
    could not edit a calendar. I think it's a shame, if they givent it
    more power not only it could be advertised as a media player, but also
    as a personal organizer, could really hit the pda market.

    On Oct 1, 9:37 am, Michael Murray
    wrote:
    > On 2007-10-01 20:45:24 +0930, David Cantrell said:
    >
    > > On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 07:14:57AM -0500, Thomas P Brisco wrote:

    >
    > >> About the only thing that keeps me using a Palm is Datebook6 ...

    >
    > > About the only thing that keeps me using a Palm is that I've tried
    > > Windows CE (many years ago), Windows Mobile, and a Zaurus. The Palm
    > > beats them all hands-down and I keep going back to it.

    >
    > > It will be interesting to see what Apple's version is like, whether on
    > > the iPhone or the iNewton (but note that rumours of a new Newton have
    > > been around for *years* and never come to anything. I won't believe it
    > > until I see 'em in the shops) but I have a nagging suspicion that
    > > they'll have lots and lots of shiny features which idiot reviewers gush
    > > about, but which get in the way of the basics that real people need.

    >
    > The rumour of Apple doing a replacement Newton, as you say, has been
    > around for a longtime. There are also strong rumours of a small
    > laptop. It is possible these rumours are getting mixed up. It is also
    > clear Apple works on all kinds of things at once so the fact they are
    > working on a certain bit of technology now doesn't mean a product
    > release is imminent or ever.
    >
    > So far as basic PDA functionality goes we have at present:
    >
    > (1) iPhone: No ToDo / Tasks although it is rumoured that these will
    > come when Tasks are merged into Mail in Leopard. No third party
    > applications that run on the phone -- what third party applications
    > there are run under Safari and have to save data on internet somewhere
    > and only work when connected to the net.
    >
    > (2) iPod Touch: Less functionality than iPhone. In particular cannot
    > edit Calendar on the iPod Touch and no Email.
    >
    > Don't get me wrong I love apple products and would love to see a iPDA
    > replace my old TX but I a skeptical of Steve Job's famous comments
    > about `scribble pads'
    >
    > Michael




  12. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    In article <1191328679.831474.103360@k79g2000hse.googlegroups. com>,
    Ennev wrote:

    > I must admit I was a bit disapointed when i've learned that the iTouch
    > could not edit a calendar. I think it's a shame, if they givent it
    > more power not only it could be advertised as a media player, but also
    > as a personal organizer, could really hit the pda market.


    Sounds like you're in love but want to change the other person.

    The iPod Touch IS advertised as a media player and NOT a personal
    organizer or PDA.

  13. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    To: Guy Bannis
    Well, i don't see a LiveDrive or a Palm TX a basic device. The OS need a
    revamp, Saguaro project does show that a lot is still possible on this
    plateform. The hardward is there, the software is lacking.

    --

    http://ennev.livejournal.com/
    "Guy Bannis" a ‚crit dans le message de news:
    guy-AA1F33.09575101102007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
    > In article <20071001111523.GF21155@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk>,
    > David Cantrell wrote:
    >
    >> but I have a nagging suspicion that
    >> they'll have lots and lots of shiny features which idiot reviewers gush
    >> about, but which get in the way of the basics that real people need.

    >
    > The rumor is not for a basic device. The Newton was never a basic
    > device.
    >
    > So if you want only a basic device, Palm will still be your best bet.
    >


  14. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    In article <4703D468.962.palmpalm002@mtlgeek.synchro.net>,
    "Ennev" wrote:

    > To: Guy Bannis
    > Well, i don't see a LiveDrive or a Palm TX a basic device. The OS need a
    > revamp, Saguaro project does show that a lot is still possible on this
    > plateform. The hardward is there, the software is lacking.
    >
    > --
    >
    > http://ennev.livejournal.com/
    > "Guy Bannis" a ‚crit dans le message de news:
    > guy-AA1F33.09575101102007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
    > > In article <20071001111523.GF21155@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk>,
    > > David Cantrell wrote:
    > >
    > >> but I have a nagging suspicion that
    > >> they'll have lots and lots of shiny features which idiot reviewers gush
    > >> about, but which get in the way of the basics that real people need.

    > >
    > > The rumor is not for a basic device. The Newton was never a basic
    > > device.
    > >
    > > So if you want only a basic device, Palm will still be your best bet.
    > >


    Don't know what you're getting at. Thought you were looking for a basic
    device, such as the Palm Z22.

    If you want more basic, keep looking.

  15. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:15:24 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:

    > On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 07:14:57AM -0500, Thomas P Brisco wrote:
    >
    >> About the only thing that keeps me using a Palm is Datebook6 ...

    >
    > About the only thing that keeps me using a Palm is that I've tried
    > Windows CE (many years ago), Windows Mobile, and a Zaurus. The Palm
    > beats them all hands-down and I keep going back to it.


    I was definitely figuring staying far, far away from Windows* devices
    (I've been making good progress getting rid of it in my house). The
    Zaurus is probably a little more to my taste (any comments as to why you
    didn't like it?) -- but leaning more towards the Nokia N800; though that
    doesn't strike me as perfectly-perfect either - but a hell of a lot
    better than a dead platform that has few applications, is expensive with
    sub-par quality, and limited communications ability.

    Palm's lack of applications, communications, and inability to interact
    with something other than pestilential windows makes it pretty a dead
    platform. I'm surprised they haven't just started running RIM's
    operating system, leaping feet-first into "me, too" product lines.


  16. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    "David Cantrell" wrote in message
    news:20071001111523.GF21155@bytemark.barnyard.co.u k...
    > On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 07:14:57AM -0500, Thomas P Brisco wrote:
    >
    >> About the only thing that keeps me using a Palm is Datebook6 ...

    >
    > About the only thing that keeps me using a Palm is that I've tried
    > Windows CE (many years ago), Windows Mobile, and a Zaurus. The Palm
    > beats them all hands-down and I keep going back to it.


    Snap!

    > It will be interesting to see what Apple's version is like, whether on
    > the iPhone or the iNewton (but note that rumours of a new Newton have
    > been around for *years* and never come to anything. I won't believe it
    > until I see 'em in the shops) but I have a nagging suspicion that
    > they'll have lots and lots of shiny features which idiot reviewers gush
    > about, but which get in the way of the basics that real people need.




    --
    The DervMan
    www.dervman.com



  17. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    In article news:<20071008100102.GB13918@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk>, David
    Cantrell wrote:
    > On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 09:46:36AM -0500, Thomas P Brisco wrote:
    >
    > > Zaurus is probably a little more to my taste (any comments as to why you
    > > didn't like it?)

    >
    > The address book and calendar were rubbish, both with Sharp's software
    > and after I'd installed OpenZaurus. And there are very few applications
    > available for it that I care about. Unfortunately, the weird windowing
    > system means that the vast amount of free Unixy software that you would
    > think would be available on a Linux platform just isn't.


    Just chipping in here: I agree with David completely. I really liked my
    Zaurus (SL-5500) as a device -- it could have been smaller and it should
    certainly have had better battery life and/or cheap, easily obtainable, spare
    batteries -- but it was (is) a nice piece of kit, and as an unashamed techie
    I really /like/ the exposure of the underlying OS ... but the buil-in apps
    were junk. A PIM device with PIM applications you can't use is a disaster.

    One of the first things I did with mine was to put in a 10minute dental
    appointment ... and the Hansol calendar software created an entry 1/6 of an
    hour high in the day-view, which was too small to read (and too small to
    tap-on to see the details). That's absolutely typical of the way in which the
    built-in PIM apps fail ... whoever designed them had no understanding of
    software usability in general, or the design needs of a basic PIM app.

    Do the same thing on a Palm and it creates a new full-height line in the day
    view for that appointment, and another new full-height line for the remaining
    50 minutes of that hour. Perfect. Possibly even better, in that respect, than
    Psion's brilliant "Agenda" software for their late and much-missed handheld
    ranges.

    > Palm is intentionally simple and Just Works.


    Agreed. Palm's interface is unsophisticated but it does most of what most
    people want and any idiot can learn how to use it in 10 minutes.

    > > Palm's lack of applications, communications, and inability to interact
    > > with something other than pestilential windows

    >
    > Funny, it's the applications that are one of the things that keeps me on
    > Palm. Communications? My Treo talks GPRS, which is all I need.


    Again, I agee with David. The Palm has /tons/ of applications, many of which
    are excellent (and inexpensive). I have a tungsten not a Treo, but I have all
    the communications ability I need via BlueTooth and my Nokia phone. WiFi
    might be nice -- as would a browser that doesn't crash all the time (and a
    screen large enough for to be worth using) -- but I can collect my EMail just
    about anywhere in the world, which is what matters.

    My Tungsten syncs just fine with kpilot on linux ... don't imagine that Palm
    doesn't have linux interoperability just because it doesn't ship in the box.

    Cheers,
    Daniel.




  18. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:22:09 +0100, Daniel James wrote:

    > In article news:<20071008100102.GB13918@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk>, David
    > Cantrell wrote:
    >> On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 09:46:36AM -0500, Thomas P Brisco wrote:
    >>
    >> > Zaurus is probably a little more to my taste (any comments as to why
    >> > you didn't like it?)

    >>
    >> The address book and calendar were rubbish, both with Sharp's software
    >> and after I'd installed OpenZaurus. And there are very few
    >> applications available for it that I care about. Unfortunately, the
    >> weird windowing system means that the vast amount of free Unixy
    >> software that you would think would be available on a Linux platform
    >> just isn't.

    >
    > Just chipping in here:
    > A PIM device with PIM applications you can't use is a disaster.


    Heh. You guys got me re-thinking this a bit. I'm a loving slave to
    Datebook6 -- one of the things that has kept a Palm in my satchel since
    my Handspring days. I'd _hoped_ that something like korganizer or
    evolution (not my favorite) would work on a palm-top distro that I'd like
    to use; but maybe that's not to be. The N800 still looks good -- but I'm
    wondering if I'm not going to have similar problems... (as the
    OpenZaurus, I mean).

    > One of the first things I did with mine was to put in a 10minute dental
    > appointment ... and the Hansol calendar software created an entry 1/6 of
    > an hour high in the day-view, which was too small to read (and too small
    > to tap-on to see the details). That's absolutely typical of the way in
    > which the built-in PIM apps fail ... [...]
    >
    > Do the same thing on a Palm and it creates a new full-height line in the
    > day view for that appointment, and another new full-height line for the
    > remaining 50 minutes of that hour.


    Again; Datebook5/6 is what really hooked me. The flexibility of that
    package is both what keeps me, and frustrates me. I can put down events
    that "float" forwards - e.g. I need to pick up the laundry on wednesday
    3PMish, but if it's thursday, or friday, no big deal (each day, the
    "appointment" advances a day, reminding me at the same time - until
    checked off, like a to-do item).

    The above kind of event, though, when sync'd to most brain-dead
    calendaring software is a nightmare. Ramming such things into
    ("pestilential") Windows calendaring is close, but I'm a linux user, and
    getting things reliably into evolution (forget it) or korganizer
    (possible) are problematic at best. Evolution likes to explode non-
    trivial events, and put them back on your palm -- so a sync is out of the
    question (go for overwrite). Kalendar, as I remember, was substantially
    better, though.

    >> Palm is intentionally simple and Just Works.

    >
    > Agreed. Palm's interface is unsophisticated but it does most of what
    > most people want and any idiot can learn how to use it in 10 minutes.


    You have to agree here. Palm's interface is about as an intuitive
    approach as I've ever seen.

    >> > Palm's lack of applications, communications, and inability to
    >> > interact with something other than pestilential windows

    >>
    >> Funny, it's the applications that are one of the things that keeps me
    >> on Palm. Communications? My Treo talks GPRS, which is all I need.

    >
    > Again, I agee with David. The Palm has /tons/ of applications, many of
    > which are excellent (and inexpensive). I have a tungsten not a Treo, but
    > I have all the communications ability I need via BlueTooth and my Nokia
    > phone. WiFi might be nice -- as would a browser that doesn't crash all
    > the time (and a screen large enough for to be worth using) -- but I can
    > collect my EMail just about anywhere in the world, which is what
    > matters.


    Here, I'm going to break with you. I've a T5, and support talking to my
    Samsung X820 is a nightmare. I strongly prefer different devices for
    voice and PIM -- holding a brick of a blackberry or treo against my head
    just seems ridiculous. If your phone isn't on Palm's aged list of
    compatible sets - you're SOL. With some /bizarre/ machinations (which, I
    pray to god, I never have to reproduce) I got the Palm to talk to the
    phone over bluetooth as a DUN-looking device for EDGE access. SMS? -
    forget it. Dial contact? - forget it. I looked at some for-pay packages
    that mildly worked (dial contacts, no SMS - SMS on phones, even with T9,
    is crippling). Sending contacts via BT is a bit wonky, but sending
    things like photos and music works just fine.

    When it comes to /tons/ of applications -- I've got to be honest and say
    that I've not seen anything that isn't circa-2002 for the Palm OS
    (excepting Datebk6). While I can understand that the OS hasn't change
    significantly in years, other requests like "Pedit disappeared" (see
    earlier posts from someone else) is disconcerting -- at least minor
    updates for color support would be nice. In an open-source community-
    driven environment, one looks for recent updates as a sign of active,
    living software - instead of some binary that'll disappear forever with
    the next server crash.

    > My Tungsten syncs just fine with kpilot on linux ... don't imagine that
    > Palm doesn't have linux interoperability just because it doesn't ship in
    > the box.


    I have no end of headache with this kpilot/jpilot/gpilot. Kpilot is
    passable, but the crippled USB support in Linux is annoying (time it
    right and it works - I was using more of a hokey-pokey approach - push
    left button, click kpilot's button, etc etc). Granted, this isn't really
    Palm's issue - to me it's more of an artifact of a stale, abandoned
    platform (Palm, I mean, not linux

    Bizarre things in gpilot -- it doesn't seem to understand that I don't
    need a full backup on every sync - you can turn that off, or on, but not
    have it done once a week.

    I'm using bluetooth for pretty reliable access to gpilot with PPP/BT, but
    it's pretty dog-slow. Frankly, I sometimes think of getting the wireless
    ethernet card (still ~$100?) -- but given my experience, I'm worried
    about getting it to use WPA-PSK with 802.11g -- since both of them come
    from this century.

    Even if BT/DUN and/or 802.11G was workable -- the browser on the Palm is
    laughable in terms of features supported (javascript?), and flakey as
    hell to boot. I don't think there is an update to that thing since that
    magic 2002 era. I've tried one or two of the other abandon-ware browsers
    out there that have been suggested, and they're no better. I try and run
    Opera(-mini?) on occasion, but that never seems to work reliably.

    I, essentially, wind up with it doing not a lot more than managing my
    calendar -- and I'm starting to question a $200 palm pilot vs. a $7.00
    Manhattan diary planner. Syncing over bluetooth is a chore (my bedroom
    is out of range of the underpowered BT1.0/1, so I've got to take it into
    my office, and ...) that I've stopped updating Plucker. There's no
    Vindigo agent for Linux, so ... Blazer is so old it barely talks to my
    home appliances, if you could tolerate the BT1.0(or 1.1?) speeds of web
    access and the pitiful rendering speeds.

    Ignoring the phone part, what is it outside of being a gussied-up
    calendar is that you use? I'm wondering if I really got took for my $200
    (or whatever) while Palm let's it moulder on the sideline, while they try
    and have the best blackberry clone.

    - Tom

  19. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    In article news:, Thomas P Brisco
    wrote:
    > Again; Datebook5/6 is what really hooked me.


    The various Datebook N apps are really fancy pieces of software. They look
    great but I must say I have never used them. I don't use much 3rd-party
    software on my Palm and what I do use is all free stuff. That's not because
    I mind paying, but because I have a sort of notion that what's supplied with
    the unit *should* be good enough.

    Having said that, I do use Whatzup to give me a combined view of the
    calendar and todo lists ... that's really all I need, and it has the *great*
    advantage that it uses the native calendar and todo-list data so there are
    no new formats to sync.

    I use HappyDays, too, which extracts birthdays from contact records and puts
    them in the calendar. I like that. Again, it works without using any data
    formats beyond the standard Palm ones (you have to put DoB in the 4th
    "Custom" record in contacts), so everything syncs without a problem.

    > I can put down events that "float" forwards ... like a to-do item


    Yes, Whatzup gives that effect by combining the calendar and todo list in a
    single view. It's very simple, but it works.

    > I've a T5, and support talking to my Samsung X820 is a nightmare. I
    > strongly prefer different devices for voice and PIM -- holding a brick
    > of a blackberry or treo against my head just seems ridiculous. If your
    > phone isn't on Palm's aged list of compatible sets - you're SOL. With
    > some /bizarre/ machinations (which, I pray to god, I never have to
    > reproduce) I got the Palm to talk to the phone over bluetooth as a
    > DUN-looking device for EDGE access. SMS? - forget it. Dial contact? -
    > forget it.


    You have my sympathies there. Most phone manufacturers don't do enough to
    document what's needed to get a device to talk to a PDA (or a PC) over
    either ir or Bt ... and setting this sort of thing up has never been one of
    Palm's strong suits. I'm lucky because my Nokia 6310i (obsolete, but STILL
    the best business phone ever designed) is either one of the phones supported
    by the ROM or is one that Palm released a so-called driver (really just a
    configuration file) for (I forget which). It works well, and I'm happy. The
    biggest problem I had getting it to work was actually finding out the
    settings that my airtime provider was using, not anything to do with Palm or
    Nokia.

    I agree about the 2-box solution being better ... but I'd consider a 1-box
    solution if it actually worked. I was quite taken by the Treo 680
    (especially when, just recently, they were giving away a GPS module for it)
    but if Palm can't be bothered to produce a proper fixed car kit for the
    thing, with power, aerial, and mic/speakers connections I can't take it
    seriously. The hint that someone in Germany may make such a kit for the Treo
    that may or may not be compatible with the 680 and may or may not be
    available does NOT cut the mustard. Bluetooth solutions are not acceptable
    because they don't provide the aerial connection (or charge the phone, but
    that's less of an issue). It is against the law to use a handheld mobile
    phone while driving in this country -- and probably in many others -- and I
    expect to see the car kit up there on the Palm Store page alongside the
    phone. I'm used to a Nokia ... Palm have to get a *lot* better to meet my
    expectations.

    > Sending contacts via BT is a bit wonky, but sending
    > things like photos and music works just fine.


    Maybe ... I don't do those things. I occasionally send contacts via ir,
    never by Bt, and I don't put pictures or music on my palm -- IMHO the
    screen's too small to display pictures well and the battery life isn't good
    enough to squander it on MP3s.

    > When it comes to /tons/ of applications -- I've got to be honest and say
    > that I've not seen anything that isn't circa-2002 for the Palm OS
    > (excepting Datebk6).


    I don't think I've seen much that's actually new (rather than an update)
    since that time frame ... but there is SO much that's available and almost
    all of it works on the current machines that I don't see that as a problem.
    There are very few "new" applications to code, after all (if you think of
    one that'll make a million let me know!).

    I do think that Palm have rather put developers off writing for their
    platform -- the acquisition of BeOS and all the talk of PalmOS 6 ... the
    world held its breath ... and then NO machines that ran PalmOS 6. Nobody
    wants to write form PalmOS 5 any more because they see it as an obsolete
    platform, but PalmOS 6 is apparently dead and now they're talking about
    linux ...? And some Treos now run Windows for Pocket PC -- that may be a
    shrewd marketing move on the part of Palm the hardware maker, but it does
    make it look to the world as though they have no confidence in their own
    software.

    You may gripe about the difficulty of doing "hard" things like setting up
    Bluetooth sync with Palm, but I find it ironic that although W/PPC can
    apparently do these things much more easily, it still has trouble just
    running all day without a reset. Palms user interface is also still much
    more intuitive and natural to operate that anything on the Windows or
    Symbian platforms.

    > In an open-source community- driven environment, one looks for recent
    > updates as a sign of active, living software - instead of some binary
    > that'll disappear forever with the next server crash.


    A lot of the Palm stuff -- even the free stuff -- isn't Open Source. If it
    were anyone could take over maintenance of the packages that are no longer
    supported by their original authors. It's a pity that the authors who lose
    interest don't just put their sourcecode up on SourceForge, or somewhere
    like that, so others can have a go. At least the better/more-interesting
    packages would survive, that way.

    > I have no end of headache with this kpilot/jpilot/gpilot. Kpilot is
    > passable, but the crippled USB support in Linux is annoying (time it
    > right and it works ...


    USB support has got a lot better in more recent kernels -- what are you
    running?

    I must admit that I actually sync with Palm Desktop on Win2k, as that's what
    my main everyday working machine runs ... as I type this I have one PC (this
    one) running Win2k, one running XP64, one running Gentoo linux, and my
    laptop is running Debian (though that usually runs Win2k) ... the other box
    around here (that is still ever used) runs Gentoo.

    When I tried kpilot I didn't have any USB problems, but I was really only
    trying it out and not at that time intending to use it "for real". I wanted
    to make sure that I could switch all the things I cared about to linux if it
    came to the crunch, and as far as the Palm was concerned I decided that I
    could. (Unfortunately I still need Windows for client work, and for some
    sources of proprietary data for which no linux viewer is available.)

    > Ignoring the phone part, what is it outside of being a gussied-up
    > calendar is that you use?


    I use it as a gussied-up calendar, I suppose (whatever one of those is) ...
    I also use it as a calculator (with EasyCalc), as a password keeper (with
    TopSecret), as an alarm clock and countdown timer (with BigClock), and as a
    database (with a couple of apps ... but I think DB (pilot-db) is the
    better). I've got a nice little periodic table program I downloaded from
    somewhere, which can display some handy atomic data (I wish I'd had that
    when I was a Chemistry student), I've got a freebie card game I never play
    (but the score table tells me I have played it over 800 times -- now I know
    where my life has gone!), I've got a J2ME JVM that lets me run Java midlets
    on the Palm ... which was handy when I was developing some proof-of-concept
    Java tools for a client, but is never used now.

    I also use it for EMail (via the phone part I was supposed to be ignoring)
    with the bundled VersaMail (not great, but good enough) and have
    occasionally tried to use it to access the web (via Palm's own WebPro --
    which is what was bundled with my Tungsten|T(1)) ... despite the voice of
    experience telling me that it will crash just before I get to the page I
    want.

    I keep wondering what I would replace this T|T with if it failed on me ... I
    have an old Palm IIIc that will keep me running while I buy something new
    ... and I really don't know. Maybe a T|X ... maybe a Treo 680 (despite my
    comments above, and despite its being a 1-box solution) ... maybe a Nokia
    9300i ... or the new Nokia E90 (but look at the price!). None of them is
    ideal for my needs. At least the Nokias would let me program in python from
    the commandline.

    Cheers,
    Daniel.











  20. Re: one more nail to the coffin ?

    On Thu, Oct 11, 2007 at 07:59:46PM -0500, Thomas P Brisco wrote:

    > Heh. You guys got me re-thinking this a bit. I'm a loving slave to
    > Datebook6


    What's so special about it? And if I try it out, is it going to
    irretrievably **** my existing calendar data?

    > The N800 still looks good -- but I'm
    > wondering if I'm not going to have similar problems... (as the
    > OpenZaurus, I mean).


    The first version of Nokia's tablet was terribly buggy. And yes, I
    expect it to fail at being a PIM.

    > >> My Treo talks GPRS, which is all I need.

    > > I have all the communications ability I need via BlueTooth and my Nokia

    > Here, I'm going to break with you. I've a T5, and support talking to my
    > Samsung X820 is a nightmare. I strongly prefer different devices for
    > voice and PIM


    So do I, not because ...

    > holding a brick of a blackberry or treo against my head
    > just seems ridiculous


    but because it's a pain in the arse to talk to someone on the phone
    while also looking in your diary to see when you're both free to go to
    that fantastic exhibition at $museum, or whatever. Yes, I know, the
    Treo has a speaker, but it doesn't work well like that.

    But for me, easy GPRS so I can use pssh is more important.

    > When it comes to /tons/ of applications -- I've got to be honest and say
    > that I've not seen anything that isn't circa-2002 for the Palm OS


    There's quite a lot that's more recent than that, but I understand where
    you're coming from.

    > In an open-source community-
    > driven environment, one looks for recent updates as a sign of active,
    > living software - instead of some binary that'll disappear forever with
    > the next server crash.


    If you're worried about your next server crash, then you're doing two
    things wrong. You're using a crashy server, and you've not got backups.

    Provided it works, I don't care how old software is. That the authors
    haven't made any changes often indicates that it doesn't *need* any
    changes.

    > Ignoring the phone part, what is it outside of being a gussied-up
    > calendar is that you use?


    reading ebooks; ssh client; route planner and streetmap; secure password
    store; calculator; chess clock; database of all my books so I don't buy
    the same thing twice; go game recorder; wikipedia client (using my
    http://wikiproxy.cantrell.org.uk to make wikipedia readable)

    --
    David Cantrell | Minister for Arbitrary Justice

    "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands,
    hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H. L. Mencken

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast