Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss? - Palmtop

This is a discussion on Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss? - Palmtop ; I need to replace the battery on my E2, and I don't want to lose the memory. Would it be reasonable to attempt replacement while the device is plugged in to the charger or would I risk damaging the device ...

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  1. Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?


    I need to replace the battery on my E2, and I don't want to lose the
    memory. Would it be reasonable to attempt replacement while the device
    is plugged in to the charger or would I risk damaging the device that
    way?


  2. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?


    Richard Hartman wrote:
    > I need to replace the battery on my E2, and I don't want to lose the
    > memory. Would it be reasonable to attempt replacement while the device
    > is plugged in to the charger or would I risk damaging the device that
    > way?


    First of all why can't you just hotsync or back up the contents to a SD
    card? After, just restore everything. I wouldn't change the battery
    with the power supply plugged in if I were you, who knows what could
    happen. As far as I know the E2 uses a non-volatile flash memory to
    store user files instead of regular RAM. This means you should still
    have all your user files even if the Palm has no power. Still, just
    hotsync it... change the battery and hotsync again to restore...
    simple.

    Richard


  3. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:04:21 -0000, Richard Hartman
    wrote:

    >
    > I need to replace the battery on my E2, and I don't want to lose the
    > memory. Would it be reasonable to attempt replacement while the device
    > is plugged in to the charger or would I risk damaging the device that
    > way?
    >


    E2 uses flash memory. There is no loss if the battery is disconnected (or
    if it goes flat). You will have to reset the time and date though.

    --
    Regards, etc.
    Jonathan Quirk
    jonathan AT quirk DOT force9 DOT co DOT uk
    Ascot, Berkshire, UK

  4. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    Thanks for the info.

    Is that why the E2 is sometimes so much slower to start some tasks than
    my old Tungsten E?

    Jonathan Quirk wrote:
    > On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:04:21 -0000, Richard Hartman
    > wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > I need to replace the battery on my E2, and I don't want to lose the
    > > memory. Would it be reasonable to attempt replacement while the device
    > > is plugged in to the charger or would I risk damaging the device that
    > > way?
    > >

    >
    > E2 uses flash memory. There is no loss if the battery is disconnected (or
    > if it goes flat). You will have to reset the time and date though.
    >
    > --
    > Regards, etc.
    > Jonathan Quirk
    > jonathan AT quirk DOT force9 DOT co DOT uk
    > Ascot, Berkshire, UK



  5. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    In message <1169507927.910530.293150@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups. com>
    "Richard Hartman" wrote:

    >Is that why the E2 is sometimes so much slower to start some tasks than
    >my old Tungsten E?


    In large part, yes.

    --
    This signature was randomly selected

  6. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    "Richard Hartman" wrote:

    >Is that why the E2 is sometimes so much slower to start some tasks than
    >my old Tungsten E?


    The TE2 needs a small amount of volatile ram (the cache) to operate. It keeps
    the most recent apps in that ram and they will run quickly if in there. However
    if the cache is full and a new app or data is called for it must be loaded from
    the non-volatile memory and so takes a little longer, the same as if it was
    being loaded from an external SD card. But if you use few apps they should stay
    in the cache and load quickly all the time. Since all memory in your old TE is
    volatile and there is no cache to load, it runs fast all the time.

    IMO there is only one advantage to the newer TE2 system. The great battery life.
    My TE2 has 2 to 3 times the battery life of my TE. I see little advantage to
    being able to keep the data with a dead battery which was Palm's main
    advertising point. With the old TE, even if you let the battery drop to the no
    turn on point, you still had a week to find a charger before the data died. And
    even if you let the data die, if you kept up with hotsyncs you could just reload
    by hotsync in a few minutes after a recharge. Perhaps being able to build them
    cheaper with the new system had something to do with it...

  7. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    Hello, AaronJ !
    You wrote:

    > IMO there is only one advantage to the newer TE2 system.

    (snip)
    > Perhaps being able to build them
    > cheaper with the new system had something to do with it...


    Actually, the reason Palm moved to NVFS/flash ram -vs- real ram
    was because of the Treo. In order to compete, Palm needed a way
    for Treo users to be able to hotswap the battery on the road
    without all the data disappearing.

    --
    Remove NO SPAM to reply via email
    Posted via a Palm Treo 680

  8. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    In message tannenba@csNO.SPAMwisc.edu
    (Todd Tannenbaum) wrote:

    >Hello, AaronJ !
    >You wrote:
    >
    >> IMO there is only one advantage to the newer TE2 system.

    >(snip)
    >> Perhaps being able to build them
    >> cheaper with the new system had something to do with it...

    >
    >Actually, the reason Palm moved to NVFS/flash ram -vs- real ram
    >was because of the Treo. In order to compete, Palm needed a way
    >for Treo users to be able to hotswap the battery on the road
    >without all the data disappearing.


    The Treo is part of it, although if you remember back to old Palms that
    were powered by AA batteries, if you do the swap fast enough there is no
    loss of data. This was accomplished using a capacitor charged
    sufficiently to power the RAM.

    The Treo could easily use the older-PPC method of a small Lithium
    battery that keeps the RAM powered while the main battery is out.

    However, NVFS isn't just for the Treo, it's useful for other classes of
    users too -- My mom never HotSyncs, and rarely remembers to charge, so
    her experience with Palm mostly involves the startup screen and
    restoring from SD card. As a result, she still carries a paper day
    planner for each of her consulting clients to keep her schedule and
    hours straight.

    Lastly, NVFS allows the Palm's standby/off state to use a LOT less
    power, meaning the Palm can remain usable (not just without data loss,
    but actually able to turn on and function) for extended periods of time
    without a recharge.

    Is it worth it? Personally, I think so.

    The Treo 680 apparently has ~28MB of cache, which makes it the most
    stable NVFS device yet. I can't wait to get my paws on one, I just
    haven't been able to justify the cost, yet.

    --
    do not creep a coconut
    -- NANAE

  9. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    It is alleged that DevilsPGD claimed:

    > The Treo 680 apparently has ~28MB of cache, which makes it the most
    > stable NVFS device yet. I can't wait to get my paws on one, I just
    > haven't been able to justify the cost, yet.


    I highly recommend it. I upgraded from a 650, the "smallest" upgrade
    step, and I'm liking the 680 a lot more than I did the 650, and I
    really liked the 650.

    The cellular radio is better in the 680 than the GSM650, and the audio
    quality is also better (separate unrelated improvements). The display
    is brighter and clearer, even with a screen protector on. The buttons
    and keys are, imo, easier to use, and harder to be pushed accidentally
    in my coat pocket. The shape is also easier to hold.

    A couple of related things to note, though: Talk and standby times on
    the 680 are lower because it has a smaller battery. There is a bug in
    the camera software that results in the camera drawing power even when
    off, if it's used at all causing a larger than normal battery drain,
    there is a software patch available at palm.com to fix this. Palm also
    recently noted into their knowledge base that "some" cradles may be
    causing similar symptoms. And last, the battery meter needs to be
    calibrated after purchase; most of the reported battery issues were
    actually the result of the battery meter not being calibrated
    correctly, resulting in it reporting lower than actual battery levels.

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    "Wars can be prevented just as surely as they can be provoked, and we
    who fail to prevent them must share in the guilt for the dead." -
    General Omar Bradley

  10. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    In message Jeffrey
    Kaplan wrote:

    >A couple of related things to note, though: Talk and standby times on
    >the 680 are lower because it has a smaller battery. There is a bug in
    >the camera software that results in the camera drawing power even when
    >off, if it's used at all causing a larger than normal battery drain,
    >there is a software patch available at palm.com to fix this. Palm also
    >recently noted into their knowledge base that "some" cradles may be
    >causing similar symptoms. And last, the battery meter needs to be
    >calibrated after purchase; most of the reported battery issues were
    >actually the result of the battery meter not being calibrated
    >correctly, resulting in it reporting lower than actual battery levels.


    Noticed the patch... And checked my cradle, I'm safe (the ugly black
    ones are mostly good, the nicer looking ones are bad)

    Damnit, I think I'll just order it. I actually made it to Palm's online
    checkout today, but got turned away by the 10% "international order"
    charge (which covers 6% sales tax, the rest is a cash grab).

    My 650 is officially up for sale as of this writing too.

    I noticed something interesting in the checkout process, I selected the
    680, and a stylus pack, it picks air for the Treo, and ground for the
    stylus pack, and charges shipping separately. If I upgrade the stylus
    pack to air (which is indicated as being more expensive), the shipping
    total goes down to the cost of shipping the Treo only.

    The pricing makes sense (they'll just toss it in the box), but the
    default of charging $20 extra to ship styluses seemed odd.

    btw -- What colour did you get?

    --
    I love animals, they taste great.

  11. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    It is alleged that DevilsPGD claimed:

    > Noticed the patch... And checked my cradle, I'm safe (the ugly black
    > ones are mostly good, the nicer looking ones are bad)


    Yeah. I've got a Palm, Inc. cradle that my brother got me for the
    holidays two years ago, for my 650. It's not a Rev C, B +or+, but
    since I did the meter calibration, my "battery issues" vanished.

    > Damnit, I think I'll just order it. I actually made it to Palm's online
    > checkout today, but got turned away by the 10% "international order"
    > charge (which covers 6% sales tax, the rest is a cash grab).


    I did that a few times myself. It was the raw price, though, that kept
    holding me back until the last minute. My rate plan with Cingular does
    not qualify for the carrier-discounted price, and buying the unlocked
    one direct from Palm was actually cheaper than a locked one from
    Cingular without the discount.

    > My 650 is officially up for sale as of this writing too.


    I sent mine into TradeUps, I should be getting a check for $125 any day
    now.

    > I noticed something interesting in the checkout process, I selected the
    > 680, and a stylus pack, it picks air for the Treo, and ground for the
    > stylus pack, and charges shipping separately. If I upgrade the stylus
    > pack to air (which is indicated as being more expensive), the shipping
    > total goes down to the cost of shipping the Treo only.


    I guess the shipping is by weight range, and the weight of the stylus
    pack is negligible when added to the Treo's.

    > btw -- What colour did you get?


    Arctic. I don't like those shades of red, the Cingular locked ones are
    Graphite, and they didn't have any shade of blue.

    Oh, you can actually use eGrips or one of the thinner silicone skin
    cases on the 680 and it'll still fit the Palm cradle.

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    "If I am ever the Hero top 100 list: #15. If my Mentor tells me that I
    am not yet ready to confront the Evil Overlord, I will quietly accept
    his judgement and remain to complete my training.

  12. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    In message Jeffrey
    Kaplan wrote:

    >It is alleged that DevilsPGD claimed:
    >
    >Yeah. I've got a Palm, Inc. cradle that my brother got me for the
    >holidays two years ago, for my 650. It's not a Rev C, B +or+, but
    >since I did the meter calibration, my "battery issues" vanished.


    Reportedly not all cradles will cause problems either, and not all the
    time.

    I lucked out though, since mine was a recent purchase... I'll probably
    order another one (although I might not stick with Palm for my second
    one, I don't need to charge my spare battery in my bedroom too) just to
    keep the Treo charged all the time.

    Why in the bedroom? It's my girlfriend's alarm clock, she gets grouchy
    (and rightfully so) if I leave it in my office in my cradle

    >I did that a few times myself. It was the raw price, though, that kept
    >holding me back until the last minute.


    Yeah that too. I'm debating waiting until I'm in the US in early Feb,
    it would save me about $30, plus the 10% brokerage fee, although I'd be
    honest and declare it, so I'd get hit with 6% tax when I returned home
    and possibly duty (although I don't think there is duty... But I'm not
    100% sure)

    >My rate plan with Cingular does
    >not qualify for the carrier-discounted price, and buying the unlocked
    >one direct from Palm was actually cheaper than a locked one from
    >Cingular without the discount.


    Plus the trade-in only applies if you buy it direct from Palm (otherwise
    they send a gift certificate or coupon or something, not a cheque)

    >> My 650 is officially up for sale as of this writing too.

    >
    >I sent mine into TradeUps, I should be getting a check for $125 any day
    >now.


    I have a buyer on the way over, offered $225CAD for my 650... We'll see
    if he takes it or not.

    >> I noticed something interesting in the checkout process, I selected the
    >> 680, and a stylus pack, it picks air for the Treo, and ground for the
    >> stylus pack, and charges shipping separately. If I upgrade the stylus
    >> pack to air (which is indicated as being more expensive), the shipping
    >> total goes down to the cost of shipping the Treo only.

    >
    >I guess the shipping is by weight range, and the weight of the stylus
    >pack is negligible when added to the Treo's.


    Yeah -- I was just annoyed that if I hadn't been paying attention, I'd
    have paid almost $20 extra AND not gotten my styluses for another 2-3
    weeks.

    >> btw -- What colour did you get?

    >
    >Arctic. I don't like those shades of red, the Cingular locked ones are
    >Graphite, and they didn't have any shade of blue.


    I'm debating between red or orange... I'm almost thinking orange, from
    what I've heard it's more metallic then bright orange. I don't like
    white, and I'm not sure I'd like bright red either.

    Plus the orange one is being discontinued (but it looks like I can still
    get it from the Canadian site -- Of course the order might get canceled)

    In general I'd go for graphite (professional), but since that's the only
    one you can get locally, it seems appropriate to pick a different
    colour.

    Too bad there isn't a darker grey/black... I rather like the Blackberry
    look, just not the functionality.

    >Oh, you can actually use eGrips or one of the thinner silicone skin
    >cases on the 680 and it'll still fit the Palm cradle.


    Very cool... I have eGrips in the mail already, although worst case I
    could leave some off. Glad to know I can use 'em all.

    --
    Few women admit their age. Few men act theirs.

  13. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    tannenba@csNO.SPAMwisc.edu (Todd Tannenbaum) wrote:

    >Palm needed a way
    >for Treo users to be able to hotswap the battery on the road
    >without all the data disappearing.


    Pity Palm didn't see fit to put a removable battery in it's classic style PDAs
    (NVFS or otherwise). Heck even the $29 cordless phones have had them for years.
    Besides being convenient it would have saved the OP with the E2 some work.

  14. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    In message DevilsPGD
    wrote:

    >Plus the orange one is being discontinued (but it looks like I can still
    >get it from the Canadian site -- Of course the order might get canceled)


    Palm® Treo™ 680 GSM - Copper
    Size: One Size
    Color: One Color
    Ref.#: S3334046
    Item #2573591

    Item(s) located in stock

    (which reportedly means it's gone from "probably in stock" to "actually
    available") -- I'll find out if it ships tomorrow. I can't wait!

    2-3 day shipping. bah!

    --
    I understand what all the individual words mean despite the misspellings;
    I just don't understand what they mean in that particular order.

  15. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    In message AaronJ
    wrote:

    >tannenba@csNO.SPAMwisc.edu (Todd Tannenbaum) wrote:
    >
    >>Palm needed a way
    >>for Treo users to be able to hotswap the battery on the road
    >>without all the data disappearing.

    >
    >Pity Palm didn't see fit to put a removable battery in it's classic style PDAs
    >(NVFS or otherwise). Heck even the $29 cordless phones have had them for years.
    >Besides being convenient it would have saved the OP with the E2 some work.


    Agreed, although removable batteries adds a fair amount of bulk The
    plastic hinges, battery connectors, housing for the battery) for the
    small percentage of users that would actually buy a replacement battery.

    --
    I understand what all the individual words mean despite the misspellings;
    I just don't understand what they mean in that particular order.

  16. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    It is alleged that DevilsPGD claimed:

    > I lucked out though, since mine was a recent purchase... I'll probably
    > order another one (although I might not stick with Palm for my second
    > one, I don't need to charge my spare battery in my bedroom too) just to
    > keep the Treo charged all the time.


    I just have a charge cable in my bedroom.

    > >Arctic. I don't like those shades of red, the Cingular locked ones are
    > >Graphite, and they didn't have any shade of blue.

    >
    > I'm debating between red or orange... I'm almost thinking orange, from
    > what I've heard it's more metallic then bright orange. I don't like


    I think they're calling it "copper".

    > >Oh, you can actually use eGrips or one of the thinner silicone skin
    > >cases on the 680 and it'll still fit the Palm cradle.

    >
    > Very cool... I have eGrips in the mail already, although worst case I
    > could leave some off. Glad to know I can use 'em all.


    I left the side pieces off, so I can still put the Treo in the holder
    in my car - it's a universal holder, it grips the sides.

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #39.
    If I absolutely must ride into battle, I will certainly not ride at the
    forefront of my Legions of Terror, nor will I seek out my opposite
    number among his army.

  17. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    It is alleged that DevilsPGD claimed:

    > (which reportedly means it's gone from "probably in stock" to "actually
    > available") -- I'll find out if it ships tomorrow. I can't wait!
    >
    > 2-3 day shipping. bah!


    I got overnight shipping - free! (That "last minute" I referred to
    was the free overnight shipping in the US deal.)

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    "Do you know why Vorrutyer died?" "No...." "He tried to hurt Aral
    through me. I found that... annoying. I wish you would cease trying to
    annoy me, Count Vordarian, I'm afraid you might succeed." (Cordelia
    Vorkosigan and Count Vordarian [Lois McMaster Bujold, "Barrayar"])

  18. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    In message Jeffrey
    Kaplan wrote:

    >It is alleged that DevilsPGD claimed:
    >
    >I just have a charge cable in my bedroom.


    I did at one point... Might again, although I'd much rather a cradle.
    For ~$30 I can't go wrong with a cradle.

    >I think they're calling it "copper".


    On the website it's orange (despite what they call it)

    Once it arrives we'll see -- All the reviews I can find say the website
    pictures don't do it justice.

    >> Very cool... I have eGrips in the mail already, although worst case I
    >> could leave some off. Glad to know I can use 'em all.

    >
    >I left the side pieces off, so I can still put the Treo in the holder
    >in my car - it's a universal holder, it grips the sides.


    I was mostly interested in the side pieces, I could do without the back
    (although I'd like to use 'em all if I can -- But if not, I'll chop up
    the remaining pieces and use 'em elsewhere)

    --
    Critics are like eunuchs in a harem: they know how it's done, they've
    seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves.

  19. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    In message Jeffrey
    Kaplan wrote:

    >It is alleged that DevilsPGD claimed:
    >
    >> (which reportedly means it's gone from "probably in stock" to "actually
    >> available") -- I'll find out if it ships tomorrow. I can't wait!
    >>
    >> 2-3 day shipping. bah!

    >
    >I got overnight shipping - free! (That "last minute" I referred to
    >was the free overnight shipping in the US deal.)


    The 2-3 day shipping is mostly due to the border crossing, I believe...

    --
    Stop cleaning your ears with screwdrivers, lest you loosen the screws
    holding your tiny brain in place.

  20. Re: Replacing battery on Palm Tungsten E2 without memory loss?

    In message DevilsPGD
    wrote:

    >Once it arrives we'll see -- All the reviews I can find say the website
    >pictures don't do it justice.


    My Copper 680 arrived today... The form factor is startling, it's a ton
    better then the 650's form factor for such subtle changes.

    RF and audio performance are noticeably better, as is the Bluetooth
    support (At least on my 650, I had to keep my Treo in my right pocket,
    in my left pocket there would be too much interference with the headset
    on my right ear)

    I'm using Butler to get control of the phone/green buttons
    independently, effectively giving me an extra hard button (one of my
    biggest complaints about the 650)

    My only real complaint so far is the useless LED. It seems to be
    randomly red or green, sometimes flashing red while not in service (but
    not always) -- If Palm would restore the 650 level of functionality, I'd
    be a happy camper.

    --
    Sticks and stones may break my bones, but
    improperly spelled insults merely amuse me.

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