Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones - Palmtop

This is a discussion on Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones - Palmtop ; Hi, I got a couple of questions for the knowledgeable crowd, concerning the above: 1-I always asumed cell phones were dependent on chips installed by the phone companies, so that changing companies using the same device was very difficult, almost ...

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  1. Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    Hi, I got a couple of questions for the knowledgeable crowd, concerning
    the above:

    1-I always asumed cell phones were dependent on chips installed by the
    phone companies, so that changing companies using the same device was
    very difficult, almost impossible for the average non-savy user. But
    when I got my new cell phone from the Cricket company, they told me
    they no longer use chips, but rather automatic programming, which is
    done by calling a phone number. Is this true, or was the salesman just
    ignorant? The main reason why I avoid PDA phones - Smartphones, is
    because they are too expensive to just toss aside if I decide to change
    cell providers. If I could just pick my favorite device, and be
    assured of compatibility among at least the more popular companies for
    a few years, then I might take the plunge. By the way, I do know about
    the different cell phone signal technologies that the companies use, I
    am strickly asking about device transferability. Asuming the cell
    phone can support the company, can the user do his own thing? I do
    know the companies themselves will likely not help you with this.

    2-Is Palm coming up with a Smart phone form factor in the near future?
    I tend to feel the horizontal approach of the smartphones allows the
    device to be reasonably small as a cell phone, yet reasonably big as a
    PDA. I would be interested in a Palm based smartphone. I feel the
    Treo form factor is too big for a cell phone, too small for a Palm
    device. Hey, they could even restore the extended screen to the Treos
    if they became Smartphones!

    TIA for any information


  2. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    In article <1168206575.948943.14390@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.co m>,
    "GTDer" wrote:

    > Hi, I got a couple of questions for the knowledgeable crowd, concerning
    > the above:
    >
    > 1-I always asumed cell phones were dependent on chips installed by the
    > phone companies, so that changing companies using the same device was
    > very difficult, almost impossible for the average non-savy user.


    There are chips and there are chips.

    The one you're asking about is also called the "sim card." Some phones
    use sim cards. When you want to change providers, just swap out the sim
    card for one from the new provider.

    Your provider must also "unlock" the phone so it can use other sim cards.

    This works when you're travelling overseas too. When you're in Europe,
    for example, and you have an unlocked GSM phone with a sim card, just
    buy a prepaid sim card in Europe and swap out your U.S. card. You'll
    have a phone number in Europe and cellular service from a different
    provider.

    > 2-Is Palm coming up with a Smart phone form factor in the near future?


    Treos are smartphones.

  3. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    Guy Bannis wrote:
    > > 2-Is Palm coming up with a Smart phone form factor in the near future?

    >
    > Treos are smartphones.


    Well, ok, my bad, but hopefully the point of my original question was
    not lost in the confusion. Treos are more vertical, trying to preserve
    the PDA form, rather than preserve the cell phone form, the other smart
    phones I have seen are horizontal, hence they use the space much
    better. I would go for a Treo with that form factor, if the answer
    that I am looking for in connection with my first question is a
    positive one.

    Here still hoping . . . .


  4. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    Guy Bannis wrote:
    > There are chips and there are chips.


    Thanks for your comments. I did asume someone would probably try to
    clarify the issue of sim cards for me. Now with that out of the way,
    I am still hoping for an answer to the actual question: can PDA phones
    like the Treos be transfered (with a 'reasonable' amount of effort),
    from one cell phone company to another?
    My current company does not offer them, so if I want one, I would have
    to somehow do the reprogramming myself or something. Not sure if the
    available knowledge on the web is enough for either scenario.


  5. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    In message <1168228791.681474.118870@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups. com>
    "GTDer" wrote:

    >Guy Bannis wrote:
    >> > 2-Is Palm coming up with a Smart phone form factor in the near future?

    >>
    >> Treos are smartphones.

    >
    >Well, ok, my bad, but hopefully the point of my original question was
    >not lost in the confusion. Treos are more vertical, trying to preserve
    >the PDA form, rather than preserve the cell phone form, the other smart
    >phones I have seen are horizontal, hence they use the space much
    >better. I would go for a Treo with that form factor, if the answer
    >that I am looking for in connection with my first question is a
    >positive one.
    >
    >Here still hoping . . . .


    I'm confused... Virtually smartphone I've ever seen has had a vertical
    design.

    http://images.google.ca/images?q=smartphone contains a number of
    examples.

    The Nokia 9500 is one exception that comes to mind, and definitely not
    the only one, but most follow the Blackberry overall size/shape.

    --
    Never try to extort more than it would cost to have you killed.

  6. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    GTDer wrote:

    > Hi, I got a couple of questions for the knowledgeable crowd, concerning
    > the above:
    >
    > 1-I always asumed cell phones were dependent on chips installed by the
    > phone companies, so that changing companies using the same device was
    > very difficult, almost impossible for the average non-savy user. But
    > when I got my new cell phone from the Cricket company, they told me
    > they no longer use chips, but rather automatic programming, which is
    > done by calling a phone number. Is this true, or was the salesman just
    > ignorant? The main reason why I avoid PDA phones - Smartphones, is
    > because they are too expensive to just toss aside if I decide to change
    > cell providers. If I could just pick my favorite device, and be
    > assured of compatibility among at least the more popular companies for
    > a few years, then I might take the plunge. By the way, I do know about
    > the different cell phone signal technologies that the companies use, I
    > am strickly asking about device transferability. Asuming the cell
    > phone can support the company, can the user do his own thing? I do
    > know the companies themselves will likely not help you with this.


    When you change telephone company, you just replace your SIM-card. That
    is, unless you have purchased a cheap phone /locked/ to this company.

    > 2-Is Palm coming up with a Smart phone form factor in the near future?
    > I tend to feel the horizontal approach of the smartphones allows the
    > device to be reasonably small as a cell phone, yet reasonably big as a
    > PDA. I would be interested in a Palm based smartphone. I feel the
    > Treo form factor is too big for a cell phone, too small for a Palm
    > device. Hey, they could even restore the extended screen to the Treos
    > if they became Smartphones!
    >
    > TIA for any information


    I'm quite satisfied with my Treo 650 which I bought used for $160, €121,
    just before yule.
    --
    Per Erik Rønne
    http://www.RQNNE.dk

  7. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    GTDer wrote:

    > Guy Bannis wrote:
    > > There are chips and there are chips.

    >
    > Thanks for your comments. I did asume someone would probably try to
    > clarify the issue of sim cards for me. Now with that out of the way,
    > I am still hoping for an answer to the actual question: can PDA phones
    > like the Treos be transfered (with a 'reasonable' amount of effort),
    > from one cell phone company to another?
    > My current company does not offer them, so if I want one, I would have
    > to somehow do the reprogramming myself or something. Not sure if the
    > available knowledge on the web is enough for either scenario.


    Just buy one that isn't locked. As no telephone provider in Denmark
    offers them, it seems, you can only buy them unlocked - which means that
    they can be used with any company. Just insert your SIM card.

    Unlocked Treos are more expensive than locked Treos because the
    telephone company tries to ensure that you don't change to a competitor.
    Probably, what you gain in cheaper prices you will have to pay in higher
    monthly payments to the telephone company.

    Just look at the 'unlocked' prices here:

    <http://eurostore.palm.com/is-bin/INT...onsumerNL/en_U
    S/-/EUR/ViewCatalog-Start?search_category_uuid=2dfY9SCrx5QAAAELSpie.ew g&
    search_online=online&CountryName=Denmark&cid=CD2407R[EMEA]>
    --
    Per Erik Rønne
    http://www.RQNNE.dk

  8. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    Per Rønne wrote:
    > GTDer wrote:
    >
    >> Guy Bannis wrote:
    >>> There are chips and there are chips.

    >> Thanks for your comments. I did asume someone would probably try to
    >> clarify the issue of sim cards for me. Now with that out of the way,
    >> I am still hoping for an answer to the actual question: can PDA phones
    >> like the Treos be transfered (with a 'reasonable' amount of effort),
    >> from one cell phone company to another?
    >> My current company does not offer them, so if I want one, I would have
    >> to somehow do the reprogramming myself or something. Not sure if the
    >> available knowledge on the web is enough for either scenario.

    >
    > Just buy one that isn't locked. As no telephone provider in Denmark
    > offers them, it seems, you can only buy them unlocked - which means that
    > they can be used with any company. Just insert your SIM card.


    You are slightly unclear to GTD.

    Remember that there are at least 3 sorts of phone networks.
    GSM - almost all over the world, including USA
    CDMA - USA and Iraq? only, maybe Korea as well
    japan has their own kind, and i dont even think they have GSM

    a CDMA phone does not have a simcard, and that phone has to be
    programmed by the phone company. Maybe they can do it with software,
    maybe he needs a new phone. SO GTD, AVOID CDMA.

    GTD, buy a treo 680, or a treo 750. Both are GSM and can be bought
    unlocked from Palm.com (750 maybe not yet, as cingular? has a short
    period where they only are allowed to sell it.)

    The GSM phones uses a simcard, which means the phone can easily be
    moved from one provider to another, especially if you buy a unlocked
    phone. So GTD, BUY A UNLOCKED TREO 680 OR 750 FROM PALM.COM and then
    request a simcard from your phone company, or another phone company
    that provides a GSM network.


    I have a unlocked GSM 650, where i have changed phone company just be
    swapping out the sim card. All my contacts was still there. And it was
    setup to use MMS and GRPS/EDGE from the beginning. I think the treo
    asks the simcard what to do, and it just worked. But get a UNLOCKED
    GSM phone.


    JonB

  9. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    GTDer wrote:
    > Guy Bannis wrote:
    >>> 2-Is Palm coming up with a Smart phone form factor in the near future?

    >> Treos are smartphones.

    >
    > Well, ok, my bad, but hopefully the point of my original question was
    > not lost in the confusion. Treos are more vertical, trying to preserve
    > the PDA form, rather than preserve the cell phone form, the other smart
    > phones I have seen are horizontal, hence they use the space much
    > better. I would go for a Treo with that form factor, if the answer
    > that I am looking for in connection with my first question is a
    > positive one.
    >
    > Here still hoping . . . .


    All treo phones look the same, with the keyboard under the screen.
    There are some non palm phones which has no keyboard, and some with
    the keyboard inside. Either a clap or a slider design.

  10. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    Jon Bendtsen wrote:

    > You are slightly unclear to GTD.
    >
    > Remember that there are at least 3 sorts of phone networks.
    > GSM - almost all over the world, including USA
    > CDMA - USA and Iraq? only, maybe Korea as well
    > japan has their own kind, and i dont even think they have GSM


    OK, I'm from Denmark and I think we only have GSM in Europe.
    --
    Per Erik Rønne
    http://www.RQNNE.dk

  11. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    Jon Bendtsen wrote :
    > [...]
    > I have a unlocked GSM 650, where i have changed phone company just be
    > swapping out the sim card. All my contacts was still there. And it was
    > setup to use MMS and GRPS/EDGE from the beginning. I think the treo asks
    > the simcard what to do, and it just worked. But get a UNLOCKED GSM phone.


    Hello,

    I don't how it works elsewhere, but in my country (France) if you buy a
    cheaper locked GSM phone, you can get it unlocked for free 6 months
    after buying it. I always did that with my phones and it helped me a lot
    when travelling...

    Perhaps you have such similar rules ????

    About CDMA and GSM : you have some phones that support both technologies
    I bet...

    Charly

  12. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    Per Rønne wrote :
    > [...]
    > I'm quite satisfied with my Treo 650 which I bought used for $160, €121,
    > just before yule.



    Where did you get it for that price ???? :-D

    What it brand new ?

    Charly, verrrrrryyy interested...

  13. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    Charly wrote:

    > Per Rønne wrote :
    > > [...]
    > > I'm quite satisfied with my Treo 650 which I bought used for $160, €121,
    > > just before yule.

    >
    > Where did you get it for that price ???? :-D
    >
    > What it brand new ?
    >
    > Charly, verrrrrryyy interested...


    I said I bought it /used/ which means that it wasn't "brand new". And I
    bought it privately ... not through some kind of site.
    --
    Per Erik Rønne
    http://www.RQNNE.dk

  14. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    Charly wrote:
    > Jon Bendtsen wrote :
    >> [...]
    >> I have a unlocked GSM 650, where i have changed phone company just be
    >> swapping out the sim card. All my contacts was still there. And it was
    >> setup to use MMS and GRPS/EDGE from the beginning. I think the treo
    >> asks the simcard what to do, and it just worked. But get a UNLOCKED
    >> GSM phone.

    >
    > Hello,
    >
    > I don't how it works elsewhere, but in my country (France) if you buy a
    > cheaper locked GSM phone, you can get it unlocked for free 6 months
    > after buying it. I always did that with my phones and it helped me a lot
    > when travelling...


    it is not always cheaper, but it might appear to be cheaper, and
    besides you have to do the hassle of getting them to unlock the phone.
    It's better to buy a unlocked phone upfront.


    > Perhaps you have such similar rules ????
    >
    > About CDMA and GSM : you have some phones that support both technologies
    > I bet...


    I dont think there is any phones that can support both CDMA and GSM.




    JonB

  15. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    In article <1168229535.125980.220830@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups. com>,
    "GTDer" wrote:

    > Thanks for your comments. I did asume someone would probably try to
    > clarify the issue of sim cards for me. Now with that out of the way,
    > I am still hoping for an answer to the actual question: can PDA phones
    > like the Treos be transfered (with a 'reasonable' amount of effort),
    > from one cell phone company to another?
    > My current company does not offer them, so if I want one, I would have
    > to somehow do the reprogramming myself or something. Not sure if the
    > available knowledge on the web is enough for either scenario.


    Where are you located?

    When you shop for phones, ask the carrier if the particular phone you're
    interested in is locked or unlocked and whether it uses a sim card.

    If it's locked, ask about their locking policy. Does it expire after six
    months? If it does, then you can swap out the sim card after six months.

    You don't have to do any reprogramming.

  16. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    In message Jon Bendtsen
    wrote:

    >Remember that there are at least 3 sorts of phone networks.
    >GSM - almost all over the world, including USA
    >CDMA - USA and Iraq? only, maybe Korea as well
    >japan has their own kind, and i dont even think they have GSM


    Canada has two nationwide CDMA carriers as well, plus a couple smaller
    ones kicking around.

    We also have dying TDMA, and a decent GSM network too now.

    --
    His voice is to entertainment what the kazoo is to classical music

  17. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    It is alleged that GTDer claimed:

    > Thanks for your comments. I did asume someone would probably try to
    > clarify the issue of sim cards for me. Now with that out of the way,
    > I am still hoping for an answer to the actual question: can PDA phones
    > like the Treos be transfered (with a 'reasonable' amount of effort),
    > from one cell phone company to another?


    If you're with Verizon or Sprint, no. If you're with Cingular or
    T-Mobile, yes, so long as you switch to T-Mobile or Cingular.

    > My current company does not offer them, so if I want one, I would have
    > to somehow do the reprogramming myself or something. Not sure if the
    > available knowledge on the web is enough for either scenario.


    If you're with a GSM carrier, you can order an unlocked Treo directly
    from Palm. When it arrives and you've charged it, just put your SIM
    card in the tray and turn on the phone. Most of your network settings
    will be there. For the rest, go into the Phone app, and then open up
    the Call Preferences (from the menu) to get it to read the rest of the
    settings off the network.

    (I just upgraded to a new Treo, unlocked from Palm, three weeks ago.)

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    "I think I really enjoy being a sneak." "Then I hereby appoint you the
    official Babylon 5 Sneak In Residence." "Why, thank you." "Now get
    the hell out of my chair." (Cmdr. Ivanova and Capt. Sheridan, B5 "Sic
    Transit Vir")

  18. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    It is alleged that Per Rønne claimed:

    > Unlocked Treos are more expensive than locked Treos because the


    Not necessarily. I could have purchased a locked Treo 680 from
    Cingular for US$450. Since I'm not interested in doubling my rate plan
    to get unlimited data, which I don't need, I did not quality for a
    subsidized unit, I got an unlocked one directly from Palm US - for
    $399, and I did qualify for a trade-up rebate of $125, for a final cost
    of $274 (I'm now just waiting on the rebate check).

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    Tips for evil cult members: 4. Before agreeing to impregnation by a
    supernatural being, investigate the survival rate of the other women
    who have undergone the procedure.

  19. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    It is alleged that Charly claimed:

    > I don't how it works elsewhere, but in my country (France) if you buy a
    > cheaper locked GSM phone, you can get it unlocked for free 6 months
    > after buying it. I always did that with my phones and it helped me a lot
    > when travelling...
    >
    > Perhaps you have such similar rules ????


    Cingular says that after a period of being a "customer in good
    standing", they will unlock your phone on request - if you're going to
    be traveling outside of their domestic market. There have been horror
    stories about such requests taking several months to process properly,
    and getting the wrong codes.

    > About CDMA and GSM : you have some phones that support both technologies
    > I bet...


    I saw one such phone once, at a Verizon Wireless store (Verizon is
    CDMA). IIRC, it was in total a quad-band phone: One band AMPS
    (whichever band Verizon uses), two CDMA bands and +one+ GSM band. I
    don't recall which GSM band it was, but it was probably one used in
    Europe, not the US.

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    "Well, she looks pretty lively to me." (Dr. Franklin, B5 "Z'Ha'Dum")

  20. Re: Two questions about PDA phones - Smart Phones

    In message Jeffrey
    Kaplan wrote:

    >It is alleged that Per Rønne claimed:
    >
    >> Unlocked Treos are more expensive than locked Treos because the

    >
    >Not necessarily. I could have purchased a locked Treo 680 from
    >Cingular for US$450. Since I'm not interested in doubling my rate plan
    >to get unlimited data, which I don't need, I did not quality for a
    >subsidized unit, I got an unlocked one directly from Palm US - for
    >$399, and I did qualify for a trade-up rebate of $125, for a final cost
    >of $274 (I'm now just waiting on the rebate check).


    How is the 680?

    --
    Are you tired of having your hands cut off by snowblowers?

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