Backup program that meets my needs? - Palmtop

This is a discussion on Backup program that meets my needs? - Palmtop ; I'm looking for a program that will backup my Palm m515's files in RAM to my 1GB SD card regularly (on a schedule, after each HotSync, *and* when I power off). I've tried BackupBuddyVFS and BackupMan, but neither one really ...

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Thread: Backup program that meets my needs?

  1. Backup program that meets my needs?

    I'm looking for a program that will backup my Palm m515's files in RAM
    to my 1GB SD card regularly (on a schedule, after each HotSync, *and*
    when I power off). I've tried BackupBuddyVFS and BackupMan, but neither
    one really do everything I want.

    My want-list of features:

    * FAST (BackupBuddyVFS flunks this test)
    * Ability to save & access last 'n' backups (BackupMan 1.x did this, 2.1
    flunks)
    * Ability to restore individual files as needed (BBVFS passes, BM 2.1
    flunks)
    * Ability to backup changed files *quickly* on power-off (BBVFS flunks,
    BM 1.x barely passes, BM 2.1 passes barely)

    Any suggestions?

    (FYI, I just discovered, thanks to asking Bits 'N Bolts support about
    it, that BackupMan 2.1 only saves the **LAST** differential backup.
    That means that, if I did a full automated backup at 4 am, do a Hotsync
    that adds one or more files, do a differential after the Hotsync, then
    do *another* differential even a few minutes later, the file(s) I
    Hotsynced DO NOT get resaved! This is absolutely unacceptable to me.
    To make matters worse, BackupMan 2.1 only saves 1 backup per day, even
    if you turn off differential backups. BackupMan 1.55 does all this, but
    it won't automatically do a backup when you power off.)

  2. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?

    Not sure why you have the need to backup so frequently.

    If near-continuous failsafe data retention is that important to you,
    you might consider changing to something like a TE2 which will retain
    data even if you let the battery run down.

    Doug Hoffman


  3. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?

    wrote in message
    news:1162994301.028686.80040@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com
    > Not sure why you have the need to backup so frequently.


    I don't know why Joe needs to back up that much either. My Palm IIIxe
    only gets backed up once a week and I have never lost anything yet.


    --
    Bill


  4. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?

    It is alleged that Joe Sewell claimed:

    > I'm looking for a program that will backup my Palm m515's files in RAM
    > to my 1GB SD card regularly (on a schedule, after each HotSync, *and*
    > when I power off). I've tried BackupBuddyVFS and BackupMan, but neither
    > one really do everything I want.
    >
    > My want-list of features:
    >
    > * FAST (BackupBuddyVFS flunks this test)
    > * Ability to save & access last 'n' backups (BackupMan 1.x did this, 2.1
    > flunks)
    > * Ability to restore individual files as needed (BBVFS passes, BM 2.1
    > flunks)
    > * Ability to backup changed files *quickly* on power-off (BBVFS flunks,
    > BM 1.x barely passes, BM 2.1 passes barely)
    >
    > Any suggestions?


    Resco Backup. It's fast, even when only doing full backups, you can
    access any backup you've kept (it can keep multiple backups), you can
    restore individual files as need or the entire set, and it can back up
    on a schedule, "before" a hotsync, or after any user-set application
    quits. There does not appear to be a setting to backup when powering
    off, though.

    But if you know which app will be changing the files, you can set it to
    backup when that app closes.

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    "God, I hate mornings." "We've noticed." (Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova and Cmdr.
    Sinclair, B5 "Babylon Squared")

  5. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?

    In article <1162994301.028686.80040@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
    dhoffman@talkamerica.net wrote:

    > Not sure why you have the need to backup so frequently.
    >
    > If near-continuous failsafe data retention is that important to you,
    > you might consider changing to something like a TE2 which will retain
    > data even if you let the battery run down.
    >
    > Doug Hoffman


    A new Palm is currently out of the budget.

    As for why so frequent backups ... hey, I'm paranoid. Seriously,
    though, I'd prefer not to lose *anything.* I cannot sync at work
    (personal equipment isn't allowed to connect to the company network),
    and some stuff I depend upon quite a bit.

  6. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?

    "Joe Sewell" wrote in message
    news:ultrajoe-F1C65E.21184908112006@news-server2.tampabay.rr.com
    > In article <1162994301.028686.80040@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
    > dhoffman@talkamerica.net wrote:
    >
    >> Not sure why you have the need to backup so frequently.
    >>
    >> If near-continuous failsafe data retention is that important to you,
    >> you might consider changing to something like a TE2 which will retain
    >> data even if you let the battery run down.
    >>
    >> Doug Hoffman

    >
    > A new Palm is currently out of the budget.
    >
    > As for why so frequent backups ... hey, I'm paranoid. Seriously,
    > though, I'd prefer not to lose *anything.* I cannot sync at work
    > (personal equipment isn't allowed to connect to the company network),
    > and some stuff I depend upon quite a bit.


    Well this is a wild idea and you probably won't like it. But a Palm
    IIIxe can be had for under 20 bucks on eBay. They use 2 AAA batteries
    which lasts about 2 months before you need to replace them. And there is
    a guy also selling a Modem for the Palm's for just under $8 total. And
    you could phone home to sync with your home computer. Wild, eh?

    This is what I do. I never lost everything yet either. And I have been
    doing this for years. I also have a Palm IIIc with a Li-Ion. I never
    lost anything here either. Sure you could run the battery down enough
    where it won't turn on anymore. But there is still enough charge to hold
    your data for like a week I think before it would ever lose anything.

    --
    Bill


  7. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?


    BillW50 wrote:
    > "Joe Sewell" wrote in message
    > news:ultrajoe-F1C65E.21184908112006@news-server2.tampabay.rr.com
    > > In article <1162994301.028686.80040@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
    > > dhoffman@talkamerica.net wrote:
    > >
    > >> Not sure why you have the need to backup so frequently.
    > >>
    > >> If near-continuous failsafe data retention is that important to you,
    > >> you might consider changing to something like a TE2 which will retain
    > >> data even if you let the battery run down.
    > >>
    > >> Doug Hoffman

    > >
    > > A new Palm is currently out of the budget.
    > >
    > > As for why so frequent backups ... hey, I'm paranoid. Seriously,
    > > though, I'd prefer not to lose *anything.* I cannot sync at work
    > > (personal equipment isn't allowed to connect to the company network),
    > > and some stuff I depend upon quite a bit.

    >
    > Well this is a wild idea and you probably won't like it. But a Palm
    > IIIxe can be had for under 20 bucks on eBay. They use 2 AAA batteries
    > which lasts about 2 months before you need to replace them. And there is
    > a guy also selling a Modem for the Palm's for just under $8 total. And
    > you could phone home to sync with your home computer. Wild, eh?
    >
    > This is what I do. I never lost everything yet either. And I have been
    > doing this for years. I also have a Palm IIIc with a Li-Ion. I never
    > lost anything here either. Sure you could run the battery down enough
    > where it won't turn on anymore. But there is still enough charge to hold
    > your data for like a week I think before it would ever lose anything.


    I used to have a IIIxe; it was a good machine, but I needed the extra
    RAM.

    I've got no second phone line -- or, for that matter, any phone line
    near my computer -- and I'm not too sure my company's phone system
    supports hooking up a modem, let alone whether it's allowed.

    Thanks for the attempt, but I'd rather hear "there's nothing like that
    out there right now" than "I want to convince you you're stupid to want
    all that."


  8. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?

    "Joe Sewell" wrote in message
    news:1163076874.207302.78820@m73g2000cwd.googlegro ups.com
    > I used to have a IIIxe; it was a good machine, but I needed the extra
    > RAM.
    >
    > I've got no second phone line -- or, for that matter, any phone line
    > near my computer -- and I'm not too sure my company's phone system
    > supports hooking up a modem, let alone whether it's allowed.
    >
    > Thanks for the attempt, but I'd rather hear "there's nothing like that
    > out there right now" than "I want to convince you you're stupid to
    > want all that."


    Thanks Joe... I was just floating ideas around. But I just don't know
    how practical they are though.

    --
    Bill


  9. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?


    Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
    > It is alleged that Joe Sewell claimed:
    >
    > > I'm looking for a program that will backup my Palm m515's files in RAM
    > > to my 1GB SD card regularly (on a schedule, after each HotSync, *and*
    > > when I power off). I've tried BackupBuddyVFS and BackupMan, but neither
    > > one really do everything I want.
    > >
    > > My want-list of features:
    > >
    > > * FAST (BackupBuddyVFS flunks this test)
    > > * Ability to save & access last 'n' backups (BackupMan 1.x did this, 2.1
    > > flunks)
    > > * Ability to restore individual files as needed (BBVFS passes, BM 2.1
    > > flunks)
    > > * Ability to backup changed files *quickly* on power-off (BBVFS flunks,
    > > BM 1.x barely passes, BM 2.1 passes barely)
    > >
    > > Any suggestions?

    >
    > Resco Backup. It's fast, even when only doing full backups, you can
    > access any backup you've kept (it can keep multiple backups), you can
    > restore individual files as need or the entire set, and it can back up
    > on a schedule, "before" a hotsync, or after any user-set application
    > quits. There does not appear to be a setting to backup when powering
    > off, though.
    >
    > But if you know which app will be changing the files, you can set it to
    > backup when that app closes.


    Thanks for the recommendation, but Resco Backup requires PalmOS 5+, and
    m515's are stuck at 4.1 or 4.1.2.


  10. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?

    Joe Sewell wrote:

    >
    > * FAST (BackupBuddyVFS flunks this test)
    > * Ability to save & access last 'n' backups (BackupMan 1.x did this, 2.1
    > flunks)
    > * Ability to restore individual files as needed (BBVFS passes, BM 2.1
    > flunks)
    > * Ability to backup changed files *quickly* on power-off (BBVFS flunks,
    > BM 1.x barely passes, BM 2.1 passes barely)
    >
    > Any suggestions?



    BBVFS is plenty fast for me. You may need to try it with compression
    disabled or legacy compression. It is only slow for the first backup.
    After that it only backs up changed or new files and is quite fast.
    BBVFS is now at version 4.0, I'm not sure which version you are using
    though.


  11. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?


    Joe Sewell wrote:
    > I'm looking for a program that will backup my Palm m515's files in RAM
    > to my 1GB SD card regularly (on a schedule, after each HotSync, *and*
    > when I power off). I've tried BackupBuddyVFS and BackupMan, but neither
    > one really do everything I want.
    >
    > My want-list of features:
    >
    > * FAST (BackupBuddyVFS flunks this test)
    > * Ability to save & access last 'n' backups (BackupMan 1.x did this, 2.1
    > flunks)
    > * Ability to restore individual files as needed (BBVFS passes, BM 2.1
    > flunks)
    > * Ability to backup changed files *quickly* on power-off (BBVFS flunks,
    > BM 1.x barely passes, BM 2.1 passes barely)
    >
    > Any suggestions?
    >
    > (FYI, I just discovered, thanks to asking Bits 'N Bolts support about
    > it, that BackupMan 2.1 only saves the **LAST** differential backup.
    > That means that, if I did a full automated backup at 4 am, do a Hotsync
    > that adds one or more files, do a differential after the Hotsync, then
    > do *another* differential even a few minutes later, the file(s) I
    > Hotsynced DO NOT get resaved! This is absolutely unacceptable to me.
    > To make matters worse, BackupMan 2.1 only saves 1 backup per day, even
    > if you turn off differential backups. BackupMan 1.55 does all this, but
    > it won't automatically do a backup when you power off.)


    The best backup program for OS4 is CardBackup.
    The best for OS5 is RescoBackup.


  12. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?

    ASAAR wrote:
    > On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:32:39 GMT, Joe Sewell wrote:
    >
    > > (FYI, I just discovered, thanks to asking Bits 'N Bolts support about
    > > it, that BackupMan 2.1 only saves the **LAST** differential backup.
    > > That means that, if I did a full automated backup at 4 am, do a Hotsync
    > > that adds one or more files, do a differential after the Hotsync, then
    > > do *another* differential even a few minutes later, the file(s) I
    > > Hotsynced DO NOT get resaved! This is absolutely unacceptable to me.

    >
    > Don't take offense (since I don't know your familiarity with
    > backup terms) but are you certain that the hotsync'ed files wouldn't
    > be backed up or are you assuming that they wouldn't be? You may be
    > correct, especially if you did your own tests to confirm what you
    > were told by Bits 'N Bolts support, but from past experience
    > "incremental" backups would work the way you describe, with each
    > incremental backup containing only those files added or modified
    > since the last incremental backup. Differential backups on the
    > other hand are different in that *all* files added or modified since
    > the previous FULL backup are included in the differential backup.
    > So the files added by the hotsync should be included in every
    > differential backup, and only by doing another full backup will the
    > added files be removed from future differential backups, since they
    > will then have been saved in the full backup. Thus only a single
    > differential backup is really needed, even if it's nice (space
    > permitting) to have all of the differentials saved as insurance.
    > Unlike incremental backups which can vary in size, one day perhaps
    > being very large and the next (if there were no added files) being
    > very small, differential backups keep getting larger and larger,
    > since the most recent differential will contain every file added or
    > modified since the previous full backup. If you're uncertain about
    > any of this, see if Bits 'N Bolts support agrees or disagrees.


    Very good point, and no offense taken at all. In this case, though, I
    did confirm what BnB implied, that differentials don't pick up stuff
    since the last full. When I did the restore that caused me to discover
    the problem with BackupMan 2.1, I discovered that some files that were
    added (installed) during the HotSync did not reappear. That's what
    started me down this sad path of discovering BackupMan 2.1 is, in my
    opinion, dangerously unreliable. (I also discovered that, if you happen
    to interrupt a scheduled backup with differentials turned off, you lose
    the entire day's worth of backups!)

    For those who are still curious why I'm so anal about all this, I've
    had too many times when I've taken notes at a meeting or at church, had
    something crash my Palm so bad that I had to do a hard reset, then
    discover that all those notes were gone. When this happens at work, I'm
    hosed, as I cannot sync at work (personal computer equipment isn't
    allowed to be connected in any way, shape, or form to the precious
    company LAN, even indirectly through a sync cradle).

    Too bad there's no Retrospect for PalmOS.


  13. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?

    "Joe Sewell" wrote in message
    news:1164720063.582840.225390@l39g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com
    > Very good point, and no offense taken at all. In this case, though, I
    > did confirm what BnB implied, that differentials don't pick up stuff
    > since the last full. When I did the restore that caused me to discover
    > the problem with BackupMan 2.1, I discovered that some files that were
    > added (installed) during the HotSync did not reappear. That's what
    > started me down this sad path of discovering BackupMan 2.1 is, in my
    > opinion, dangerously unreliable. (I also discovered that, if you
    > happen to interrupt a scheduled backup with differentials turned off,
    > you lose the entire day's worth of backups!)
    >
    > For those who are still curious why I'm so anal about all this, I've
    > had too many times when I've taken notes at a meeting or at church,
    > had something crash my Palm so bad that I had to do a hard reset, then
    > discover that all those notes were gone. When this happens at work,
    > I'm hosed, as I cannot sync at work (personal computer equipment isn't
    > allowed to be connected in any way, shape, or form to the precious
    > company LAN, even indirectly through a sync cradle).
    >
    > Too bad there's no Retrospect for PalmOS.


    No offense, but if my Palms or even my computers lost files... something
    is wrong! Either the hardware or the software. Besides some applications
    that I have tried that causes my Palms to crash and I got rid of them.
    But of my Palm IIIc and Palm IIIxe has been totally reliable and I don't
    ever reset them. Well after 5 years, my Li-Ion battery died and I
    replaced it, but that is very reliable if you ask me. And I don't
    believe my experience is that unusual.

    --
    Bill


  14. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?

    In comp.sys.palmtops.pilot Joe Sewell wrote:
    > ASAAR wrote:
    > > On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:32:39 GMT, Joe Sewell wrote:
    > >
    > > > (FYI, I just discovered, thanks to asking Bits 'N Bolts support about
    > > > it, that BackupMan 2.1 only saves the **LAST** differential backup.


    etc. etc.

    > Too bad there's no Retrospect for PalmOS.


    Yeah right. I've been using Retrospect [used to be ?DiskFit?]] for almost 20
    years and I have never been 100% satisfied with it. I must have paid well
    over $1K for the yearly upgrades.

    As far a Bits 'N Bolts goes, I personally know the guy behind it. I can tell
    you that he is one of the most knowledgeable Palm developers and a great
    guy. I learned a lots of Palm programming tricks from him.

    I still use BackupMan 1.x and I am 100% happy. I have no experience with
    BackupMan 2.x.

    /PaulN


  15. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?

    In article <1164401826.592397.119890@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
    beachshark1@yahoo.com wrote:

    > Joe Sewell wrote:
    > > I'm looking for a program that will backup my Palm m515's files in RAM
    > > to my 1GB SD card regularly (on a schedule, after each HotSync, *and*
    > > when I power off). I've tried BackupBuddyVFS and BackupMan, but neither
    > > one really do everything I want.
    > >
    > > My want-list of features:
    > >
    > > * FAST (BackupBuddyVFS flunks this test)
    > > * Ability to save & access last 'n' backups (BackupMan 1.x did this, 2.1
    > > flunks)
    > > * Ability to restore individual files as needed (BBVFS passes, BM 2.1
    > > flunks)
    > > * Ability to backup changed files *quickly* on power-off (BBVFS flunks,
    > > BM 1.x barely passes, BM 2.1 passes barely)
    > >
    > > Any suggestions?
    > >
    > > (FYI, I just discovered, thanks to asking Bits 'N Bolts support about
    > > it, that BackupMan 2.1 only saves the **LAST** differential backup.
    > > That means that, if I did a full automated backup at 4 am, do a Hotsync
    > > that adds one or more files, do a differential after the Hotsync, then
    > > do *another* differential even a few minutes later, the file(s) I
    > > Hotsynced DO NOT get resaved! This is absolutely unacceptable to me.
    > > To make matters worse, BackupMan 2.1 only saves 1 backup per day, even
    > > if you turn off differential backups. BackupMan 1.55 does all this, but
    > > it won't automatically do a backup when you power off.)

    >
    > The best backup program for OS4 is CardBackup.
    > The best for OS5 is RescoBackup.


    I'm surprised that no one has plugged BackupBuddyVFS. I've been using it
    for several years and it has several times restored perfectly after a
    hard reset. Only after I got concerned about losing all data and
    programs if my Palm got lost or stolen did I renew my concern about
    backup to my Mac. I finally bought Missing Sync for that purpose.

    --
    To send me email, replace deadspam.com by acm.org

  16. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?

    It is alleged that Herbert Kanner claimed:

    > > The best backup program for OS4 is CardBackup.
    > > The best for OS5 is RescoBackup.

    >
    > I'm surprised that no one has plugged BackupBuddyVFS. I've been using it
    > for several years and it has several times restored perfectly after a
    > hard reset. Only after I got concerned about losing all data and
    > programs if my Palm got lost or stolen did I renew my concern about
    > backup to my Mac. I finally bought Missing Sync for that purpose.


    BBVFS works. That's really about the best I can say about it. There
    are others that are faster and/or have more options.

    Resco Backup, frex, can keep as many backup sets as you want, up to the
    capacity of your card. It can restore the entire device or any
    selected file(s). It has a user-selectable compression ratio. It can
    be set to backup on a multiple schedules, be triggered to run at the
    start of a hotsync, or after any specific application exits. It can do
    full backups or incremental. It can prevent dbcache fragmentation
    while working, and because running a backup usually fills the cache, it
    can then clear the dbcache when it's done.

    It can be set to lock "risky" apps in the cache while working to
    prevent crashes when the cache is cleared, either by RB or the system
    while the backup is running.

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    "Better the illusions that exalt us than ten thousand truths." (Marcus
    Cole, B5 "A Late Delivery From Avalon")

  17. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?


    "Paul Nevai" wrote in message
    news:eki38c$86b$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
    > In comp.sys.palmtops.pilot Joe Sewell wrote:
    >> ASAAR wrote:
    >> > On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:32:39 GMT, Joe Sewell wrote:
    >> >
    >> > > (FYI, I just discovered, thanks to asking Bits 'N Bolts support about
    >> > > it, that BackupMan 2.1 only saves the **LAST** differential backup.

    >
    > etc. etc.
    >
    >> Too bad there's no Retrospect for PalmOS.

    >
    > Yeah right. I've been using Retrospect [used to be ?DiskFit?]] for almost 20
    > years and I have never been 100% satisfied with it. I must have paid well
    > over $1K for the yearly upgrades.
    >
    > As far a Bits 'N Bolts goes, I personally know the guy behind it. I can tell
    > you that he is one of the most knowledgeable Palm developers and a great
    > guy. I learned a lots of Palm programming tricks from him.
    >
    > I still use BackupMan 1.x and I am 100% happy. I have no experience with
    > BackupMan 2.x.
    >
    > /PaulN


    I also use BackupMan 1.x and have had one problem. After device restore I lose
    registration to all my ereader books. Any idea why this happens?

    Adam



  18. Re: Backup program that meets my needs?

    I won't argue that "there's something wrong" in those circumstances.

    The problem is, sometimes things *do* go wrong. I've had to hard reset
    my Palm a time or two (probably due to the various hacks I use); having
    the backup with me on the card is handy.

    More importantly, if I screw up an individual file, I can always
    restore it from the backup ... at least in the optimal case.

    BillW50 wrote:
    > "Joe Sewell" wrote in message
    > news:1164720063.582840.225390@l39g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com
    > > Very good point, and no offense taken at all. In this case, though, I
    > > did confirm what BnB implied, that differentials don't pick up stuff
    > > since the last full. When I did the restore that caused me to discover
    > > the problem with BackupMan 2.1, I discovered that some files that were
    > > added (installed) during the HotSync did not reappear. That's what
    > > started me down this sad path of discovering BackupMan 2.1 is, in my
    > > opinion, dangerously unreliable. (I also discovered that, if you
    > > happen to interrupt a scheduled backup with differentials turned off,
    > > you lose the entire day's worth of backups!)
    > >
    > > For those who are still curious why I'm so anal about all this, I've
    > > had too many times when I've taken notes at a meeting or at church,
    > > had something crash my Palm so bad that I had to do a hard reset, then
    > > discover that all those notes were gone. When this happens at work,
    > > I'm hosed, as I cannot sync at work (personal computer equipment isn't
    > > allowed to be connected in any way, shape, or form to the precious
    > > company LAN, even indirectly through a sync cradle).
    > >
    > > Too bad there's no Retrospect for PalmOS.

    >
    > No offense, but if my Palms or even my computers lost files... something
    > is wrong! Either the hardware or the software. Besides some applications
    > that I have tried that causes my Palms to crash and I got rid of them.
    > But of my Palm IIIc and Palm IIIxe has been totally reliable and I don't
    > ever reset them. Well after 5 years, my Li-Ion battery died and I
    > replaced it, but that is very reliable if you ask me. And I don't
    > believe my experience is that unusual.
    >
    > --
    > Bill



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