Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm? - Palmtop

This is a discussion on Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm? - Palmtop ; On Fri, 27 Jan 2006, at 16:41:22 [GMT -0800] (11:41:22 Saturday, 28 January 2006 where I live) "John the Baptist Jr." wrote: > You probably were threatened to be fired or something like that if you > did not move ...

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Thread: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

  1. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    On Fri, 27 Jan 2006, at 16:41:22 [GMT -0800] (11:41:22 Saturday, 28 January
    2006 where I live) "John the Baptist Jr." wrote:

    > You probably were threatened to be fired or something like that if you
    > did not move from DOS.


    Not really.

    The database (back office) which also ran under DOS (we polled >60 stores
    nightly using DOS and a very old version of PC Anywhere) was written in an
    1992 version of Dataflex, and crashed from time to time, necessatating a
    rebuild which could take up to a day and a half.

    Biggest problem was that the vendor issued a Windoze version of the software
    - all well and good - but the database still was in the DOS 1992 Dataflex,
    which he refused to upgrade. In the '90's this was good software and
    acceptable for the time; unfortunately today it is not.


  2. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    I really liked DOS however it is no longer supported. The only way
    that DOS can be used is with FreeDOS.

    Stores have to replace old computers all of the time and can't run DOS
    on the new hardware so they are forced to find something else to
    replace it with.

    thus go to something that can run on the new hardware. Its as simple
    as economics. It is cheaper and easyer to change the operations
    system then to creat a support team for an old operating system.

    In responce to some other comments. Yes DOS is an OS it is not multi
    threading but it does give the user access to the files and a standard
    interface enviroment.

    On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:34:24 -0800, "John the Baptist Jr."
    wrote:

    >I worked at a retail store for 4 years from 1997-2001,2002. During my
    >tenure there all the registers in the chain were using DOS, the
    >receiving system was using Liniux/Unix, and the telezon guns were using
    >DOS. Sadly today walking into any store in the massive chain the
    >registers are using Windows and the Telezon guns are using PocketPC or
    >Palm.
    >
    >Is anyone here involved in this trend? If so, if it were up to you (and
    >you could never be fired for airing your viewpoints) would you be
    >ditching DOS and moving all your retail POS and other systems to Windows?
    >
    >
    >
    >John


  3. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    > I need to buy a book or take a class.

    This is one of the greatest problems. Everybody that wants to use a terminal
    with DOS needs to buy a book or to take a class. Nowadays, retail wants fast
    training of their personell since the HR replacement is too fast. People
    don't stay much time in the same profession, and surely not at the same
    shop. So training must be a question of minutes or single hours, and not a
    question of days.

    Additionally, for developers, the new tools provided by CE or WM permit them
    to create better applications in a better time for a lower cost, since they
    don't need to be bound to writing drivers for everything they want to do or
    communicating with OEM drivers in the difficult way.

    Last, it is a mistake to measure the quality of the system by speed only. It
    is already known that the slowest component of the whole system is the one
    that sets the system speed. It is also known that the slowest component of
    these kinds of systems is always "the interface between the floor and the
    device", that is, the person. So creating a user interface which will help
    the person do his/her own tasks faster (by writing less and clicking more)
    will help to speed up the system even if the "computerized" portion of
    moving from one screen to the next is slower.

    Measuring the system by the speed that it responds to the Enter command and
    shows the next screen is the same thing as saying that Sirf III-based GPS
    devices are better than SirfII-based devices ONLY because on warm start the
    first takes 3 seconds to acquire the sattelites and the last 35 seconds.
    Why? Because it takes more than one minute for a person to set the
    navigation destination and path, so, considering that turning on the device
    is the first thing you do even before entering the software, both GPS
    devices will be ready in the same way when you are. So the parameters must
    be others.

    Just adding my 2 cents....

    --

    Helio Diamant
    MS-MVP/Mobile Devices
    www.pocketpcfreak.com


    "John the Baptist Jr." wrote in message
    news:johnw_94020-392A74.18441427012006@News-West.newsfeeds.com...
    > In article ,
    > Logan Shaw wrote:
    >
    >> Dude, you should learn more about Unix. You would like it. Many DOS
    >> commands are basically stripped down, lightweight versions of Unix
    >> commands. All the power you're used to in DOS is there in Unix and
    >> more.

    >
    > I need to buy a book or take a class. Know since my Mac runs it, and my
    > shell runs it, it makes sense to learn it! No I learn more effectively
    > through books, lecture and class exercizes. I am having a hard time
    > learning through a website.
    >
    >
    > John
    > --
    > Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and
    > sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing
    > asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and
    > is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
    > CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
    > http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
    >
    > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
    > News==----
    > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
    > Newsgroups
    > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
    > =----




  4. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    > Whats wrong with old hardware? You need work I know. But ever heard
    > the saying "if its not broken, why fix it?"


    It seems to me that you are just having trouble on modernizing the way you
    think. I guess the nickname you use also show a little of this mood.

    The response for the above question is that in today's business if you can't
    respond to happenings (and sometimes to competition) in a very fast mood,
    you are simply out of business in no time. And with the great tools that DOS
    gives you to develop applications, you cannot respond to anything in a
    matter of hours, nor days, and neither weeks. In most cases you will count
    in months every software change that needs to be done.

    We have had a medium-strength earthquake 2 years ago here in Israel. It was
    the first time that people in Israel really felt the danger of an earthquake
    and understood the predictions that are being made for some years that we
    are getting closer to a major earthquake. Anyway, the amazing thing to see
    was that 40 minutes after the earthquake, one of the insurance companies
    that exist in the country was already announcing in the radio a new
    insurance plan against earthquakes. Gosh, it took them 40 minutes to do
    everything required on their systems to support an earthquake plan, define
    the plan, enter the data in the system, contact a radio station, record a
    new add and put it on the air. All this to be able to catch the customers
    still at the moment of fear.

    They would never be able to do that if they, or anyone in the chain, would
    be still relying on DOS.

    --

    Helio Diamant
    MS-MVP/Mobile Devices
    www.pocketpcfreak.com


    "John the Baptist Jr." wrote in message
    news:johnw_94020-66D34F.16470127012006@News-West.newsfeeds.com...
    > In article ,
    > "John W. Kennedy" wrote:
    >
    >> Yes. Speaking as someone who has worked professionally with computers
    >> since 1965, DOS was always the equivalent of two tin cans tied together
    >> with a piece of string.
    >>
    >> > Is anyone here involved in this trend? If so, if it were up to you
    >> > (and
    >> > you could never be fired for airing your viewpoints) would you be
    >> > ditching DOS and moving all your retail POS and other systems to
    >> > Windows?

    >>
    >> Not Windows, God knows, which is a mess in entirely different ways. (Not
    >> to mention that I frankly regard Microsoft as no better than organized
    >> crime.)
    >>
    >> Anyway, quite apart from everything else, DOS simply isn't usable with
    >> modern hardware -- USB in particular.

    >
    > Whats wrong with old hardware? You need work I know. But ever heard
    > the saying "if its not broken, why fix it?"
    > --
    > Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and
    > sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing
    > asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and
    > is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
    > CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
    > http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
    >
    > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
    > News==----
    > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
    > Newsgroups
    > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
    > =----




  5. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
    > I worked at a retail store for 4 years from 1997-2001,2002. During my
    > tenure there all the registers in the chain were using DOS, the
    > receiving system was using Liniux/Unix, and the telezon guns were using
    > DOS. Sadly today walking into any store in the massive chain the
    > registers are using Windows and the Telezon guns are using PocketPC or
    > Palm.


    > Once I was given a tour of the new guns. What a sad joke. The DOS
    > based machines were faster, did not require a stylus, and were easier to
    > use once you got the hang of them. The same can be said of the DOS
    > based registers. Are people afraid of keyboards these days?


    *** Apparently. The big guns also seem to prefer making customers wait
    as their cashiers plod through menu after menu of one-at-a-time operations
    via point & click. )-: With key input, they can simply enter all the
    keystrokes at once.


    > Walking into any large retail chain today you will see that many are
    > following this path. So sad so very sad it is.


    *** Our local library recently went from a DOS-based search system to a
    web-based (Windows) system. it is slower, takes longer to use and is only
    accessible if you have javascript. )-:


    > What I do not understand is why so many companies are high on Unix, but
    > are ditching DOS. Is DOS really that bad? I trained on DOS, wrote many
    > batch files, and still know it quite better than Unix (although most
    > companies could care little if anything about my DOS expertese).


    *** Unix is very powerful, but for these retail systems, DOS works just
    as well.


    > Innonovation is not always better, and who would agree with me that the
    > newer PocketPC/Palm/Windows systems are inferior in some aspects when
    > compared to good old fashioned DOS?
    >
    > John


    *** It's all marketing. They *say* it is better, so people believe it.

    Richard Bonner
    http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

  6. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving toPocketPC/Palm?

    in article driocl$ov9$1@News.Dal.Ca, Richard Bonner at ak621@chebucto.ns.ca
    wrote on 1/29/06 7:52 AM:

    >
    > *** Unix is very powerful, but for these retail systems, DOS works just
    > as well.
    >
    >
    >> Innonovation is not always better, and who would agree with me that the
    >> newer PocketPC/Palm/Windows systems are inferior in some aspects when
    >> compared to good old fashioned DOS?
    >>
    >> John

    >
    > *** It's all marketing. They *say* it is better, so people believe it.



    DOS kicks butt!


  7. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    Ted Davis wrote:
    > On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:34:24 -0800, "John the Baptist Jr."
    > wrote:


    > >What I do not understand is why so many companies are high on Unix, but
    > >are ditching DOS. Is DOS really that bad? I trained on DOS, wrote many
    > >batch files, and still know it quite better than Unix (although most
    > >companies could care little if anything about my DOS expertese).


    > It's a *real* operating system that is supported by its vendor - MSDOS
    > is a toy OS that is *not* supported by its vendor.


    *** Except that vendor purposely makes systems obsolete to force people
    to buy their new systems, with which many companies are not doing anything
    that they didn't do a decade ago. I don't really call that "support".


    > Batch files are to *ix shell scripts somewhat as bicycles are to SUVs,
    > or minnows are to dolphins.
    > --
    > T.E.D.


    *** But do companies need the features of Unix shell scripts? I find
    that a combination of modern DOS batch files and utilities do everything
    my company and myself need.

    I submit that if Microsoft had put all its Windows features into DOS and
    allowed the marketplace to decide between DOS & Windows, that few would
    have switched. I further submit that if they had done the same for each
    of its softwares and made them to run on all versions of Windows, few
    would have upgraded Windows versions.


    I give DOS demos showing some of what I write above. Most patrons are
    surprised that DOS can do these tasks. They had been brainwashed... err
    - *marketed* into believing other. For short discussions of some DOS
    fallacies, see:

    http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/DOS-Fal.html


    Richard Bonner
    http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

  8. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
    > Windows is a candy-coated os. People these days
    > want candy oses. DOS is not attractive,


    *** There are many pretty GUI shells available for the eye-candy crowd.


    > nor is it easy to use.


    *** It's actually easy to use. I do short tutorials on this and people
    are surprised at how simple it actually is. Now, yes, DOS can be
    complicated, but for ordinary purposes (program starting, file management,
    etc), it's pretty simple.


    > But once you know it, it can be easier than Windows for many
    > functions.
    >
    > John


    *** I upgraded from Windows in 1999 (although I always had a DOS
    machine, as well) and found *all* functions to be far faster and simpler
    than with Windows. Now, it requires the user to rethink his methods, but
    once done, he sees how little it takes to get DOS to do a lot of work -
    and on much slower computers, to boot. My AMD K6 with DOS can easily run
    circles around Windows using a Pentium IV.

    Richard Bonner
    http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

  9. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    In article <#J0IkIOJGHA.3936@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>,
    "Helio Diamant - MS-MVP/Mobile Devices"
    wrote:

    > This is one of the greatest problems. Everybody that wants to use a terminal
    > with DOS needs to buy a book or to take a class.


    Of coarse I can perform basic duties in a short time. But I want
    advanced knowledge and I cant gain this without a class. I wrote many
    dos batch files and wrote my own dos menu system once for a advanced dos
    class. Yes someone with a doctorate or a Masters Degree teaching has
    many advantages over a company trainer which often lack advanced
    degrees, or a degree period!

    Surely there are many psychological courses someone with a degree took
    that a company trainer did not! One of these would have been learning
    and development. Many company trainers do not understand that not
    everyone thinks like them, and learns like they do. But someone with a
    degree should understand this.

    Thats why I vouch (at least in the church ministry area) that I will
    never work for a pastor that lacks a college education, no matter how
    many years of experience he claims. But lucky for me my current pastor
    has a MA degree in bible/theo.

    The same can be said of the techy field. Try to work for people who are
    educated.


    John
    --
    Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and
    sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing
    asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and
    is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
    CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
    http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/

    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

  10. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    Hearsay wrote:
    > I really liked DOS however it is no longer supported. The only way
    > that DOS can be used is with FreeDOS.


    *** I don't see that. My main work computer still uses a 1993 version of
    MS-DOS, along with many upgraded commands and utilities. It runs the
    business just fine. My only complaint is that some software is not
    available for DOS, so we used to run a Windows machine for that. However,
    after four Windows versions on three computers and all of them giving
    trouble, we dumped WIndows for DOS-only in 1999. We now have a Linux
    box but only use it for post-2003 .pdf files and to open MS WORD
    documents. Otherwise, it's all DOS.


    > Stores have to replace old computers all of the time and can't run DOS
    > on the new hardware so they are forced to find something else to
    > replace it with.


    *** They can easily replace it with used computers. I see hundreds of
    them being tossed by companies for no reason than that the new software
    they bought would not run on them.


    > thus go to something that can run on the new hardware. Its as simple
    > as economics. It is cheaper and easyer to change the operations
    > system then to create a support team for an old operating system.


    *** It is even cheaper to simply buy up a load pf surplus computers. At
    military and business auctions, they go for as little as $50 per system.

    Richard Bonner
    http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

  11. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    Hello Diamant - MS-MVP/Mobile Devices wrote:

    > it is a mistake to measure the quality of the system by speed only. It
    > is already known that the slowest component of the whole system is the one
    > that sets the system speed. It is also known that the slowest component of
    > these kinds of systems is always "the interface between the floor and the
    > device", that is, the person. So creating a user interface which will help
    > the person do his/her own tasks faster (by writing less and clicking more)
    > will help to speed up the system even if the "computerized" portion of
    > moving from one screen to the next is slower.
    >
    > Helio Diamant


    *** I can't agree. As I said in a previous post, I often observe office
    workers and they are slower today than they were a decade ago because
    they must constantly click on everything and search for everything instead
    of typing a series of keystrokes. This is ultimately seen with those
    doing data entry. The constant movement between mouse and keyboard is most
    disconcerting.

    When I do DOS demos and use all key commands, patrons are amazed at
    how much work gets done for so little effort.

    Richard Bonner
    http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

  12. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    "Richard Bonner" wrote in message
    news:driocl$ov9$1@News.Dal.Ca...
    > John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
    > > I worked at a retail store for 4 years from 1997-2001,2002. During my
    > > tenure there all the registers in the chain were using DOS, the
    > > receiving system was using Liniux/Unix, and the telezon guns were using
    > > DOS. Sadly today walking into any store in the massive chain the
    > > registers are using Windows and the Telezon guns are using PocketPC or
    > > Palm.

    >
    > > Once I was given a tour of the new guns. What a sad joke. The DOS
    > > based machines were faster, did not require a stylus, and were easier to
    > > use once you got the hang of them. The same can be said of the DOS
    > > based registers. Are people afraid of keyboards these days?

    >
    > *** Apparently. The big guns also seem to prefer making customers wait
    > as their cashiers plod through menu after menu of one-at-a-time operations
    > via point & click. )-: With key input, they can simply enter all the
    > keystrokes at once.


    That involves lengthy training of propietary systems. The visionaries want
    uneducated employees working as soon as they walk through the door these
    days (=low wages). But hey, with UPC scanners and touch screens showing up
    in many places now, they have eliminated the cashier. Now it takes one
    employee to monitor several self-serve checkouts.

    --
    Todd Vargo (double "L" to reply by email)


  13. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving toPocketPC/Palm?

    in article driqno$ov9$4@News.Dal.Ca, Richard Bonner at ak621@chebucto.ns.ca
    wrote on 1/29/06 8:32 AM:

    > John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
    >> Windows is a candy-coated os. People these days
    >> want candy oses. DOS is not attractive,

    >
    > *** There are many pretty GUI shells available for the eye-candy crowd.
    >
    >
    >> nor is it easy to use.

    >
    > *** It's actually easy to use. I do short tutorials on this and people
    > are surprised at how simple it actually is. Now, yes, DOS can be
    > complicated, but for ordinary purposes (program starting, file management,
    > etc), it's pretty simple.
    >
    >
    >> But once you know it, it can be easier than Windows for many
    >> functions.
    >>
    >> John

    >
    > *** I upgraded from Windows in 1999 (although I always had a DOS
    > machine, as well) and found *all* functions to be far faster and simpler
    > than with Windows. Now, it requires the user to rethink his methods, but
    > once done, he sees how little it takes to get DOS to do a lot of work -
    > and on much slower computers, to boot. My AMD K6 with DOS can easily run
    > circles around Windows using a Pentium IV.
    >
    > Richard Bonner
    > http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/


    Would not run circles around Tiger which can boot in less than a minute


  14. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    On Sun 29 Jan 2006 09:41:15a, "John the Baptist Jr."
    , wrote:

    > The same can be said of the techy field. Try to work for people who
    > are educated.


    I work on phone switches. One of the first things I "educate" my bosses
    about is to never, EVER, call me a "techy." Tech, dammit... TECH! The
    "techie" label comes from the IT side -- no self-respecting phone tech
    would have ever allowed it.

    (Nah, this isn't off topic.)

    --
    RonB
    "Little Frankie is a techie...isn't that cute-ums?"

  15. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    Here in alt.msdos,
    "Helio Diamant - MS-MVP/Mobile Devices"
    spake unto us, saying:

    >> I need to buy a book or take a class.

    >
    >This is one of the greatest problems. Everybody that wants to use a terminal
    >with DOS needs to buy a book or to take a class. Nowadays, retail wants fast
    >training of their personell since the HR replacement is too fast. People
    >don't stay much time in the same profession, and surely not at the same
    >shop. So training must be a question of minutes or single hours, and not a
    >question of days.


    Business are causing this problem (and are responsible for much of the
    current lack of employee loyalty) themselves by engaging in layoffs to
    drive up the short term bottom line and by treating certain classes of
    workers (e.g., IT workers) as interchangable parts which can be swapped
    in and out on a project-by-project basis.

    Is it any wonder that employees are loathe to give their loyalty to a
    company these days?

    --
    -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Mableton, GA USA
    OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
    WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

  16. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    > In article ,
    > "John W. Kennedy" wrote:
    >
    >> Yes. Speaking as someone who has worked professionally with computers
    >> since 1965, DOS was always the equivalent of two tin cans tied together
    >> with a piece of string.
    >>
    >> > Is anyone here involved in this trend? If so, if it were up to you (and
    >> > you could never be fired for airing your viewpoints) would you be
    >> > ditching DOS and moving all your retail POS and other systems to Windows?

    >>
    >> Not Windows, God knows, which is a mess in entirely different ways. (Not
    >> to mention that I frankly regard Microsoft as no better than organized
    >> crime.)
    >>
    >> Anyway, quite apart from everything else, DOS simply isn't usable with
    >> modern hardware -- USB in particular.

    >
    > Whats wrong with old hardware? You need work I know. But ever heard
    > the saying "if its not broken, why fix it?"


    Old hardware eventually breaks, particularly if it is used reasonably
    heavily.

    Replacement old hardware is eventually not available anymore, not at
    reasonable prices...
    --
    (format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "acm.org")
    http://linuxfinances.info/info/
    Rules of the Evil Overlord #80. "If my weakest troops fail to
    eliminate a hero, I will send out my best troops instead of wasting
    time with progressively stronger ones as he gets closer and closer to
    my fortress."

  17. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    > When I do DOS demos and use all key commands, patrons are amazed at
    > how much work gets done for so little effort.


    How many years do you work with DOS? And what is your profession?

    Without knowing the answer: Now try to have a retail cashier that is in the
    job for 10 days (or 2 months) doing the same and check for the results.

    --

    Helio Diamant
    MS-MVP/Mobile Devices
    www.pocketpcfreak.com


    "Richard Bonner" wrote in message
    news:drirsc$ov9$6@News.Dal.Ca...
    > Hello Diamant - MS-MVP/Mobile Devices wrote:
    >
    >> it is a mistake to measure the quality of the system by speed only. It
    >> is already known that the slowest component of the whole system is the
    >> one
    >> that sets the system speed. It is also known that the slowest component
    >> of
    >> these kinds of systems is always "the interface between the floor and the
    >> device", that is, the person. So creating a user interface which will
    >> help
    >> the person do his/her own tasks faster (by writing less and clicking
    >> more)
    >> will help to speed up the system even if the "computerized" portion of
    >> moving from one screen to the next is slower.
    >>
    >> Helio Diamant

    >
    > *** I can't agree. As I said in a previous post, I often observe office
    > workers and they are slower today than they were a decade ago because
    > they must constantly click on everything and search for everything instead
    > of typing a series of keystrokes. This is ultimately seen with those
    > doing data entry. The constant movement between mouse and keyboard is most
    > disconcerting.
    >
    > When I do DOS demos and use all key commands, patrons are amazed at
    > how much work gets done for so little effort.
    >
    > Richard Bonner
    > http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/




  18. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    I agree that this is not always healthy.

    But they are driven into it by stiff competition which requires every time
    faster response time with less personell.

    There is not much to do.

    --

    Helio Diamant
    MS-MVP/Mobile Devices
    www.pocketpcfreak.com


    "Richard Steiner" wrote in message
    news:MPU3DpHpvOzX092yn@visi.com...
    > Here in alt.msdos,
    > "Helio Diamant - MS-MVP/Mobile Devices"
    > spake unto us, saying:
    >
    >>> I need to buy a book or take a class.

    >>
    >>This is one of the greatest problems. Everybody that wants to use a
    >>terminal
    >>with DOS needs to buy a book or to take a class. Nowadays, retail wants
    >>fast
    >>training of their personell since the HR replacement is too fast. People
    >>don't stay much time in the same profession, and surely not at the same
    >>shop. So training must be a question of minutes or single hours, and not a
    >>question of days.

    >
    > Business are causing this problem (and are responsible for much of the
    > current lack of employee loyalty) themselves by engaging in layoffs to
    > drive up the short term bottom line and by treating certain classes of
    > workers (e.g., IT workers) as interchangable parts which can be swapped
    > in and out on a project-by-project basis.
    >
    > Is it any wonder that employees are loathe to give their loyalty to a
    > company these days?
    >
    > --
    > -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Mableton, GA
    > USA
    > OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist
    > Heaven!
    > WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
    > The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.




  19. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    Slow down John, pick up a good book to read, involve yourself
    in the characters and mellow.

    Is not this generation what you expected to see?



  20. Re: Why are retail companies ditching DOS and moving to PocketPC/Palm?

    John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
    > In article <#J0IkIOJGHA.3936@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>,
    > wrote:


    > > This is one of the greatest problems. Everybody that wants to use a
    > > terminal with DOS needs to buy a book or to take a class.


    > Of coarse I can perform basic duties in a short time. But I want
    > advanced knowledge and I cant gain this without a class. I wrote many
    > dos batch files and wrote my own dos menu system once for a advanced dos
    > class. Yes someone with a doctorate or a Masters Degree teaching has
    > many advantages over a company trainer which often lack advanced
    > degrees, or a degree period!
    >
    > John


    *** Oh, they often have degrees, but no education behind them. )-:
    Too many learning institutions today just assembly-line their students
    through. Then there are those that buy a degree on the Internet...

    Richard Bonner
    http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/



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