Harry Potter EBooks? - Palmtop

This is a discussion on Harry Potter EBooks? - Palmtop ; Hi All, Are there any "legal" eBooks in the works by "NOW"? If not, here an Online Petition you can sign: http://www.petitiononline.com/hpebook/petition.html Regards, Byron Collins Kentucky, USA...

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  1. Harry Potter EBooks?

    Hi All,

    Are there any "legal" eBooks in the works by "NOW"?
    If not, here an Online Petition you can sign:

    http://www.petitiononline.com/hpebook/petition.html

    Regards,
    Byron Collins
    Kentucky, USA





  2. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    Byron Collins wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > Are there any "legal" eBooks in the works by "NOW"?
    > If not, here an Online Petition you can sign:
    >
    > http://www.petitiononline.com/hpebook/petition.html
    >
    > Regards,
    > Byron Collins
    > Kentucky, USA
    >


    For illegal copies, try alt.binaries.ebooks and so forth.


  3. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 07:14:03 -0700, "Byron Collins"
    wrote:

    >Hi All,
    >
    >Are there any "legal" eBooks in the works by "NOW"?
    >If not, here an Online Petition you can sign:
    >
    >http://www.petitiononline.com/hpebook/petition.html


    This is silly. She has no reason to pay attention to any petitions.

    If you want to do something, improve the quality of the underground
    e-books.

    Dave

    When the Prime Minister spoke yesterday I thought to myself, "I hope I'll
    be able to give a speech like that when I grow up" - Bill Clinton, October
    2, 2002

  4. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    >> can afford the drain caused by people leeching illegal e-books... <<

    What have you have produced in your life and existance that you can
    afford to allow to be leeched by individuals who feel they have the
    right to take parts of your life without paying for them?

    Flowers from your yard, gas from your vehicle, code you have written,
    tools left unsecured, a purse on the front seat, a wallet taken from a
    crowded event, your child's shoes or their gameboy at school, etc, etc?

    We, as a society, have to respect the rights and property of others,
    for, if we fail to do so in any way and at any level (such as an illegal
    copy of a book) we implicitly forfeit any and all rights to object when
    the same violations are visited on ourselves.

    I agree that the publishers are far from guiltless, but there are other
    options to deal with them such as fostering alternatives such as
    micropayments to help put them out of business before their time.

    Beverly Howard

  5. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    AaronJ wrote:
    > "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" wrote:
    >
    >
    >>We, as a society, have to respect the rights and property of others,
    >>for, if we fail to do so in any way and at any level (such as an illegal
    >>copy of a book) we implicitly forfeit any and all rights to object when
    >>the same violations are visited on ourselves.

    >
    >
    > I go to the library and borrow a book, read it, and return it.
    > I go to the net, download a book, read it, and erase it.
    >
    > Other than legality what is the difference?


    In one case, you have permission, and in the other, you do not. Do you
    live in a country ruled by law?

    Jeff

  6. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    AaronJ wrote in message <7gond1l3nk5pj04ovrr28t0fmeqkrqrsej@4ax.com>:
    > I go to the library and borrow a book, read it, and return it.
    > I go to the net, download a book, read it, and erase it.
    >
    > Other than legality what is the difference?


    There is a slight difference*: while you have borrowed the book, others
    people can not read it. If a lot of people ask for the book, the library may
    buy more exemplaries.

    The real condition is: if you can not read the book now for free (by
    borrowing it, which is legal, or by downloading it on illegal sources), what
    do you do?

    If the answer is that you will wait until you can borrow it, then there is
    absolutely no harm caused to the author.

  7. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    jeff wrote in message <42dbe4e8$0$16752$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com>:
    >> Other than legality what is the difference?

    > In one case, you have permission, and in the other, you do not. Do you
    > live in a country ruled by law?


    You are mistaking the letter of the law and its spirit.

    The spirit of the law is to prevent people from harming the author. As I
    said in my previous message, the question wether downloading the book from
    underground sources causes harm to the author depends on what one would have
    done if one could not download it: buy it or not.

    But the law can not juge on "what would you have done if". Thus, the letter
    of the law is either more strict, or less strict than its spirit.

    Authors, and especially publishers, always push toward a stricter law, for
    example by asking borrowing fees in libraries. Most of today IP law has been
    designed before the information technologies development, and can not be
    well suited for new technologies.

    When a law is no longer adapted to the common situation, there is a
    tolerance to its application, until new trends become obvious and the law
    can be revised.

  8. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    In article <#GN9Jk7iFHA.3540@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>, Beverly Howard
    [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] wrote:
    > What have you have produced in your life and existance that you can
    > afford to allow to be leeched by individuals who feel they have the
    > right to take parts of your life without paying for them?
    >
    > Flowers from your yard, gas from your vehicle, code you have written,
    > tools left unsecured, a purse on the front seat, a wallet taken from a
    > crowded event, your child's shoes or their gameboy at school, etc, etc?


    Interesting that almost all of the items you list above (with the
    exception of 'code you have written') are actual material goods. We
    don't have matter duplicators yet, so taking them of necessity deprives
    the owner of their use. Information, on the other hand, isn't stolen,
    it is *copied*.

    Information is subject to *copyright*, not *ownership*, despite the
    common misnomer "intellectual property". A copyright is a temporary
    monopoly given to authors to encourage them to publish; in US law there
    is no notion of someone "owning" the actual work. It's not property,
    what can be owned and transferred are certain rights over how the
    work is duplicated.

    As to your one informational example, well, the few stories I have
    written and the programs I've done on my own time are released under
    the GPL or as public domain.

    > I agree that the publishers are far from guiltless, but there are other
    > options to deal with them such as fostering alternatives such as
    > micropayments to help put them out of business before their time.


    I have no ethical problem with circumventing DRM for most purposes.
    For example, I don't pirate games, but I always install a no-cd crack
    when possible; having game CDs around small children is a recipe for
    disaster.

    I wouldn't download a Harry Potter book if I didn't own it in another
    form. (Having lost interest after the third one, though, I'm unlikely
    to download one in any event.) But if I already owned a copy, I
    wouldn't be ethically troubled by getting it in electronic form. I've
    grabbed MP3s for songs I have on cassette, for example, and I don't
    feel a bit of guilt over that.

    Just pointing out that it's a bit more complicated than you seem to
    have considered. Perhaps I misunderstood your point.

    --
    Sincerely,

    Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317

    "Men often believe - or pretend - that the "Law" is something
    sacred, or at least a science - an unfounded assumption very
    convenient to governments." - Robert Heinlein

  9. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    There are other examples such as buying the paper book and reading an
    ecopy which makes ethical sense to me.

    I do find that it's sometimes difficult to do so, such as out of print
    editions where the copyright is still in force... several cases in point
    including http://bevhoward.com/ycltf.htm#copyright ;-)

    Beverly Howard

  10. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] wrote:
    > There are other examples such as buying the paper book and reading an
    > ecopy which makes ethical sense to me.
    >
    > I do find that it's sometimes difficult to do so, such as out of print
    > editions where the copyright is still in force... several cases in point
    > including http://bevhoward.com/ycltf.htm#copyright ;-)
    >
    > Beverly Howard


    He's right, I feel. Legally, I can't download an e-book to read while on
    the treadmill, even if I have a physical copy on the shelf. But I don't
    feel that I'm doing anything morally wrong.

    Getting out of paying for any of it in the first place, well...

  11. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:23:03 -0500, jeff wrote:

    > AaronJ wrote:
    >> "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>We, as a society, have to respect the rights and property of others,
    >>>for, if we fail to do so in any way and at any level (such as an illegal
    >>>copy of a book) we implicitly forfeit any and all rights to object when
    >>>the same violations are visited on ourselves.

    >>
    >>
    >> I go to the library and borrow a book, read it, and return it.
    >> I go to the net, download a book, read it, and erase it.
    >>
    >> Other than legality what is the difference?

    >
    > In one case, you have permission, and in the other, you do not. Do you
    > live in a country ruled by law?
    >


    Yes I do. However it is also my democratic right to engage in civil
    disobedience against laws that I feel are unjust, provided I am ready to
    accept the consequences.

    It is a perfectly reasonable point of view to take, that the widespread
    breaking of copyright law (in the U.K. that is just about every single
    person over the age of about 10) as civil disobedience.

    In the end the laws can only work if the majority of people accept and
    abide by them. The fact that there is such widespread breaking of
    copyright law shows that in it's current form the majority of people do
    not accept it as valid.

    JAB.

    --
    Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
    Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195


  12. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    jeff wrote:

    >AaronJ wrote:
    >> "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>We, as a society, have to respect the rights and property of others,
    >>>for, if we fail to do so in any way and at any level (such as an illegal
    >>>copy of a book) we implicitly forfeit any and all rights to object when
    >>>the same violations are visited on ourselves.

    >>
    >>
    >> I go to the library and borrow a book, read it, and return it.
    >> I go to the net, download a book, read it, and erase it.
    >>
    >> Other than legality what is the difference?

    >
    >In one case, you have permission, and in the other, you do not. Do you
    >live in a country ruled by law?


    Yes and apparently in a country of illiterates. My post says "other than
    legality"...

  13. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    Nicolas George wrote:

    >There is a slight difference*: while you have borrowed the book, others
    >people can not read it. If a lot of people ask for the book, the library may
    >buy more exemplaries.


    Yes, the library impedes the process. But the process is the same nevertheless.

    >The real condition is: if you can not read the book now for free (by
    >borrowing it, which is legal, or by downloading it on illegal sources), what
    >do you do?


    There is a third condition. There are many books still in copyright that are no
    longer in print. Then what?

    >If the answer is that you will wait until you can borrow it, then there is
    >absolutely no harm caused to the author.


    You could buy it used, but the author gets nothing...

  14. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    Nicolas George wrote:

    >You are mistaking the letter of the law and its spirit.
    >
    >The spirit of the law is to prevent people from harming the author.


    Actually it is mostly to prevent the harm to the publisher.
    The author gets but a small percentage.

    >Authors, and especially publishers, always push toward a stricter law, for
    >example by asking borrowing fees in libraries.


    Yep, if they thought they could get away with it, library borrowing would be as
    illegal (immoral?) as downloading...

  15. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" wrote:

    >There are other examples such as buying the paper book and reading an
    >ecopy which makes ethical sense to me.


    Ok, how about if I borrow the *same* paper library book that I also download as
    an ebook. I keep the library book in my possession while I read the ebook on my
    Palm. When finished I delete the ebook and return the library book. Am I covered
    morally now? There is no financial difference to anybody...

  16. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:45:43 -0400, Harry Hazardous
    wrote the following in
    ink distilled from the fermented blood of a Norwegian Ridgeback:
    >Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] wrote:


    >> There are other examples such as buying the paper book and reading an
    >> ecopy which makes ethical sense to me.


    >> I do find that it's sometimes difficult to do so, such as out of print
    >> editions where the copyright is still in force... several cases in point
    >> including http://bevhoward.com/ycltf.htm#copyright ;-)


    >> Beverly Howard


    >He's right, I feel. Legally, I can't download an e-book to read while on
    >the treadmill, even if I have a physical copy on the shelf. But I don't
    >feel that I'm doing anything morally wrong.


    >Getting out of paying for any of it in the first place, well...


    Ok... and look at from another direction.

    There are *millions* of HPB books out there. They are not subject to
    licence as is MS-PX for example.... they our books so we can do with
    them what we wish.

    So... we read them... and pass them on to someone - free. This person
    has acquired the book for nothing... can read it... and *also* pass it
    on. Should they be ethically bound to pay the author or publisher a
    'reading fee'??

    And if the one book is read *free* by 10 or 20 people?? What then?

    Also, does this second person have the same moral or ethical
    obligation not to read an e-book version since that is *also* free?
    --
    Skyrider

    Visit Australian Opinion...where comment counts!
    http://www.australianopinion.com

  17. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?


    "AaronJ" wrote in message
    news:09eod15vniuo3qbloe7nbokpn5et84t90f@4ax.com...
    > Nicolas George wrote:
    >
    >>You are mistaking the letter of the law and its spirit.
    >>
    >>The spirit of the law is to prevent people from harming the author.

    >
    > Actually it is mostly to prevent the harm to the publisher.
    > The author gets but a small percentage.
    >
    >>Authors, and especially publishers, always push toward a stricter law, for
    >>example by asking borrowing fees in libraries.

    >
    > Yep, if they thought they could get away with it, library borrowing would
    > be as
    > illegal (immoral?) as downloading...


    And what do you do for a living? Maybe we should all just waltz on in to
    your workplace and take whatever product you are associated with free of
    charge.

    Ike

    www.eickleberrybooks.com



  18. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    "Sky_rider" wrote in message
    news:1oiod15jun1qa9hck3orit3gv6pkb3l8cl@4ax.com...
    > Ok... and look at from another direction.
    >
    > There are *millions* of HPB books out there. They are not subject to
    > licence as is MS-PX for example.... they our books so we can do with
    > them what we wish.


    Err... no. Just as being able to own and drive a car doesn't mean you can
    now run people over with impunity, ownership of a CD or book doesn't mean
    you can commit illegal actions with said CD or book. Note: I'm not saying I
    necessarily agree with the laws themselves here... but I do disagree with
    your interpretation of them.

    > So... we read them... and pass them on to someone - free. This person
    > has acquired the book for nothing... can read it... and *also* pass it
    > on. Should they be ethically bound to pay the author or publisher a
    > 'reading fee'??


    If you read a book and pass it on to your buddy, it's perfectly legal
    BECAUSE (and this is the IMPORTANT PART), you cannot read the book while it
    is not in your possession. Once your buddy passes it on, it's still legal
    because he cannot reread the book or give out additional copies.

    > And if the one book is read *free* by 10 or 20 people?? What then?


    Still fine. Because, again, people do not have photographic memories and
    cannot reread the book once it is out of their possession.

    > Also, does this second person have the same moral or ethical
    > obligation not to read an e-book version since that is *also* free?


    Yep, he or she does indeed have that same moral obligation. For example:
    it's like saying "My friend loaned me a DVD... and now that I've seen it,
    that entitles me to download a bootlegged copy!" No, it doesn't, because
    when you returned that DVD to your friend, you also lost the ability to
    rewatch the film without borrowing his copy.

    Correct me if I'm wrong... but it seems to me that you're arguing that if
    you go out and purchase a copy of a book, CD, or film, then loan that copy
    you just purchased to another person, then it's as wrong as making a
    physical (or digital) DUPLICATE of the book and GIVING it to that person. I
    disagree.



  19. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?

    On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 08:53:39 -0400, "Tim McKenny"
    wrote the following in ink distilled from the
    fermented blood of a Norwegian Ridgeback:

    >"Sky_rider" wrote in message
    >news:1oiod15jun1qa9hck3orit3gv6pkb3l8cl@4ax.com...
    >> Ok... and look at from another direction.
    >>
    >> There are *millions* of HPB books out there. They are not subject to
    >> licence as is MS-PX for example.... they our books so we can do with
    >> them what we wish.

    >
    >Err... no. Just as being able to own and drive a car doesn't mean you can
    >now run people over with impunity, ownership of a CD or book doesn't mean
    >you can commit illegal actions with said CD or book. Note: I'm not saying I
    >necessarily agree with the laws themselves here... but I do disagree with
    >your interpretation of them.
    >
    >> So... we read them... and pass them on to someone - free. This person
    >> has acquired the book for nothing... can read it... and *also* pass it
    >> on. Should they be ethically bound to pay the author or publisher a
    >> 'reading fee'??


    >If you read a book and pass it on to your buddy, it's perfectly legal
    >BECAUSE (and this is the IMPORTANT PART), you cannot read the book while it
    >is not in your possession. Once your buddy passes it on, it's still legal
    >because he cannot reread the book or give out additional copies.


    Hmm... I can see where you're coming from, but from that perspective
    there should be no reason why I can't make or download e-copies since
    I bought the book (well two copies again actually ).

    >> And if the one book is read *free* by 10 or 20 people?? What then?


    >Still fine. Because, again, people do not have photographic memories and
    >cannot reread the book once it is out of their possession.


    Not the point.... if 5 of us sit round and read the read the book...
    together, or 30 of us watch the DVD... then each of them is
    watching/reading the book free and only one has paid for it!

    >> Also, does this second person have the same moral or ethical
    >> obligation not to read an e-book version since that is *also* free?


    >Yep, he or she does indeed have that same moral obligation. For example:
    >it's like saying "My friend loaned me a DVD... and now that I've seen it,
    >that entitles me to download a bootlegged copy!" No, it doesn't, because
    >when you returned that DVD to your friend, you also lost the ability to
    >rewatch the film without borrowing his copy.


    And if I keep give them carte blanche to wander in at any time and
    watch the DVD? The whole copyright issue is bizarre and the laws cant
    possibly cover all circumstances and situations..

    >Correct me if I'm wrong... but it seems to me that you're arguing that if
    >you go out and purchase a copy of a book, CD, or film, then loan that copy
    >you just purchased to another person, then it's as wrong as making a
    >physical (or digital) DUPLICATE of the book and GIVING it to that person. I
    >disagree.


    Logically tho the person you've loaned or given it to is now able to
    view the DVD for free... yes I've bought it... but... ?? Also, since I
    bought the DVD, I ought to be able to make copies of it in case I
    damage the original... but DVD's are copy protected and all my efforts
    to copy them seem doomed to fail... tho others seem to manage it
    --
    Skyrider

    Visit Australian Opinion...where comment counts!
    http://www.australianopinion.com

  20. Re: Harry Potter EBooks?


    "Ray Ingles" wrote in message
    news:slrnddq1vg.tpv.sorceror@dmc22317.local...
    > In article , Tony Clark
    > wrote:
    >

    SNIP

    >
    > E.g. see the Baen Free Library (http://www.baen.com/library/), which
    > has worked on me. I've downloaded several books from them, and then gone
    > on to purchase dead-tree ones from them too. Read the home page for a
    > case that "Whatever the moral difference, which certainly exists, the
    > practical effect of online piracy is no different from that of any
    > existing method by which readers may obtain books for free or at reduced
    > cost: public libraries, friends borrowing and loaning each other books,
    > used book stores, promotional copies, etc."
    >


    Well I am not so sure that I agree with Baen's statement that there are no
    practical differences between online piracy and other methods by which
    people my obtain free books. It's one thing to loan a single copy of a book
    to a friend it's another thing altogether to make a book available to
    millions of people instantly online. That's sort of like saying there's no
    practical difference between a handgun and a nuclear bomb.

    I think we agree, however, that many of the copyright laws and DRM need
    revision.

    Cheers
    TC

    SNIP



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