More stuff gone! - OS2

This is a discussion on More stuff gone! - OS2 ; On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 10:47:41 UTC, "Marc Lewis" wrote: > + User FidoNet address: 1:396/45 > * Original message posted in: OS2. > * Crossposted in: COMP-OS2-MISC. > Hello All. > > Here's a disturbing e-mail from Norman Data ...

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Thread: More stuff gone!

  1. Re: More stuff gone!

    On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 10:47:41 UTC, "Marc Lewis"
    wrote:

    > + User FidoNet address: 1:396/45
    > * Original message posted in: OS2.
    > * Crossposted in: COMP-OS2-MISC.
    > Hello All.
    >
    > Here's a disturbing e-mail from Norman Data Defense (Norman VC
    > for OS/2):
    >
    > -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-CUT-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-
    > From: Marc Lewis
    > To: norman@norman.com
    > Cc: Support@norman.com
    > Date: 09/25/2008 07:47 PM
    > Subject: Query about my license renewal.
    > =-=-=BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=-=-=
    > Hash: SHA1
    > Hello,
    >
    > I have just renewed my Norman Virus Control for OS/2 license via
    > your Digital River link. I now note that you apparently no
    > longer support the OS/2 product on your web site. Does that
    > imply that there will no longer be virus definition updates
    > available for my OS/2 version of your product?
    >
    > (If you have in fact stopped update support for the OS/2 version
    > of Norman V.C. I would have to request a refund of the renewal
    > fee I have just submitted... But hopefully that won't be the
    > case!) Please advise.
    >
    > Sincere thanks.
    > -
    > *****************************************
    > * Best regards,
    > * Marc.
    > [SNIP]
    >
    > To : marc.lewis@=-=-=-=-=-.com
    > Subject: Re: Fw: Query about my license renewal.
    > X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.0.1 February 07, 2008
    > From: Jermaine.Lowery@norman.com
    > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:10:28 -0400
    > Hi,
    >
    > OS/2 downloads and support for OS/2 have been discontinued.
    > Your refund is being processed. We apologize for any
    > inconvenience this may have caused. Thank you.
    >
    > Best Regards,
    >
    > Jermaine Lowery
    > Channel Account Representative
    > Norman Data Defense Systems, Inc.
    > -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-CUT-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-
    >
    > Odd that ECS current release (2.0RC5) ships _with_ Norman VC as
    > an installable option.
    >
    > Anyone have any further info for alternate virus control for
    > OS/2 systems?
    >
    > Best regards,
    > Marc
    > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++
    > + The FidoNet News Gate (Meridian, MS - USA) +
    > + The views of this user are strictly his or her own. +
    > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++



    --
    Just an "experiencial" answer: It is too bad that the discontinuation
    of OS/2 is now showing up in 3rd party support. On the positive side
    - I would not worry too much about OS/2 virus control - after all who
    is going to put in the work necessary for a discontinued OS. One of
    the few blessings of a discontinued OS.

  2. Re: More stuff gone!

    On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:37:47 UTC, "PaulRS"
    wrote:

    > Just an "experiencial" answer: It is too bad that the discontinuation
    > of OS/2 is now showing up in 3rd party support. On the positive side
    > - I would not worry too much about OS/2 virus control - after all who
    > is going to put in the work necessary for a discontinued OS. One of
    > the few blessings of a discontinued OS.


    The end of NVC for OS/2 was announced long ago. It was mostly unusable
    at the time anyway, even the windows version is unusable, unless you
    have XP (or, I would assume VISTA), and a very powerful system to run
    it. I (and all of my friends, who run windows XP, or later), now use
    FREE AVG. Those who use older versions of windows, use AVST!. WIth eCS
    (or OS/2), the answer is ClamAV. ClamAV is missing an "on demand"
    scanner, but it will scan individual files, folders, or whole drives.

    To assume that an eCS, or OS/2, user doesn't need some sort of virus
    protection, is very dangerous. True, there are no known viruses that
    affect eCS, unless you run ODIN, or use the innotek runtime, or use
    WinOS2, or use e-mail, or use a web browser (or, who knows what else).
    A virus is unlikely to do what it was designed to do, but that doesn't
    mean that it can't cause trouble. I suspect that many unexplained
    system crashes may be caused by viruses trying to do something.

    The main exposure is that it is pretty easy to pass along a virus, to
    some poor, unsuspecting, windows user, and they have enough problems,
    without one of us causing more problems for them. It is not always
    obvious, that something contains a virus, and many new viruses do
    nothing obvious, at all anyway. All they do, is sit in the background,
    waiting for a user to enter a user ID, and password, to their bank
    account, then they send that information to someone who won't mind
    using it for their own advantage. Assuming that you will spot
    something like that, without help, is silly.

    Anyway:

    > http://free.avg.com/download-avg-ant...s-free-edition


    > http://www.avast.com/


    > http://web.os2power.com/yuri/ClamAV


    > http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/...ngclamavr1.zip


    --
    From the eComStation 2.0 RC2 of Doug Bissett
    dougb007 at telus dot net
    (Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)


  3. Re: More stuff gone!

    In , on 09/29/2008
    at 11:26 PM, "Doug Bissett" said:



    >On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:37:47 UTC, "PaulRS" wrote:


    >> Just an "experiencial" answer: It is too bad that the discontinuation
    >> of OS/2 is now showing up in 3rd party support. On the positive side
    >> - I would not worry too much about OS/2 virus control - after all who
    >> is going to put in the work necessary for a discontinued OS. One of
    >> the few blessings of a discontinued OS.


    >The end of NVC for OS/2 was announced long ago. It was mostly unusable at
    >the time anyway, even the windows version is unusable, unless you have
    >XP (or, I would assume VISTA), and a very powerful system to run it. I
    >(and all of my friends, who run windows XP, or later), now use FREE AVG.
    >Those who use older versions of windows, use AVST!. WIth eCS (or OS/2),
    >the answer is ClamAV. ClamAV is missing an "on demand" scanner, but it
    >will scan individual files, folders, or whole drives.


    >To assume that an eCS, or OS/2, user doesn't need some sort of virus
    >protection, is very dangerous. True, there are no known viruses that
    >affect eCS, unless you run ODIN, or use the innotek runtime, or use
    >WinOS2, or use e-mail, or use a web browser



    I keep seeing people say this about Odin -- but once for fun, I tried to
    open a file with a windows virus. I've also done with with emails.
    Nothing happened.

    I really think its another case of much ado about nothing.








    (or, who knows what else). A
    >virus is unlikely to do what it was designed to do, but that doesn't mean
    >that it can't cause trouble. I suspect that many unexplained system
    >crashes may be caused by viruses trying to do something.


    >The main exposure is that it is pretty easy to pass along a virus, to
    >some poor, unsuspecting, windows user, and they have enough problems,
    >without one of us causing more problems for them. It is not always
    >obvious, that something contains a virus, and many new viruses do
    >nothing obvious, at all anyway. All they do, is sit in the background,
    >waiting for a user to enter a user ID, and password, to their bank
    >account, then they send that information to someone who won't mind using
    >it for their own advantage. Assuming that you will spot something like
    >that, without help, is silly.


    >Anyway:


    >> http://free.avg.com/download-avg-ant...s-free-edition


    >> http://www.avast.com/


    >> http://web.os2power.com/yuri/ClamAV


    >> http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/...ngclamavr1.zip





  4. Re: More stuff gone!

    On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:26:50 GMT, Doug Bissett wrote:

    > To assume that an eCS, or OS/2, user doesn't need some sort of virus
    > protection, is very dangerous. True, there are no known viruses that
    > affect eCS


    Kinda pointless running a virus checker then.

    > unless you run ODIN, or use the innotek runtime, or use
    > WinOS2, or use e-mail, or use a web browser (or, who knows what else).


    So, you'll be able to give us at least 1 example of a virus that fits
    each of these categories then?

    > A virus is unlikely to do what it was designed to do,


    How do you know that?

    > but that doesn't mean that it can't cause trouble.


    What sort of trouble?

    > I suspect that many unexplained system crashes may be caused by
    > viruses trying to do something.


    You mean "This is a completely random attempt at guessing that something
    might be happening based on no evidence whatsoever and trying to fit some
    symtoms of something or other to some unknown problem".
    Otherwise known as Bull****....

    Really, what a load of unsubstantiated old waffle. Just shut up will you.

  5. Re: More stuff gone!

    Paul Ratcliffe schrieb:
    >
    >> To assume that an eCS, or OS/2, user doesn't need some sort of virus
    >> protection, is very dangerous.

    Naaah, not really.

    >> True, there are no known viruses that affect eCS

    >
    > Kinda pointless running a virus checker then.

    ACK.

    It only makes sense to check EMails/Downloads that might end on a
    Windows system IMHO. For that purpose ClamAV is good enough...

    >> unless you run ODIN, or use the innotek runtime, or use
    >> WinOS2, or use e-mail, or use a web browser (or, who knows what else).


    > So, you'll be able to give us at least 1 example of a virus that fits
    > each of these categories then?


    I have one, at least :-)

    At the time when Odin was alive I deliberately ran a program I knew that
    it was infected by a (Windows) virus. I knew that it altered several
    ..DLLs on a genuine Windows system. I closely monitored what it did on
    Odin: It changed one Odin .DLL by appending some stuff to it. It then
    tried to patch the file (to apply an activation mechanism, I guessed).

    That hung the process (I'd guess that a Windows virus is probably not
    really capable to deal with LX executables found on a OS/2 system).

    After that Odin did not work anymore, until I replaced the .DLL the
    virus had changed, with the original one.

    End of story.

    Kind regards,
    Herwig

  6. Re: More stuff gone!

    With no NAV updates my WSEB can no longer reliably use it as my e-mail
    gateway/server for my family. My kids and wife + friends all have WinXP
    and their email accounts are all on my WSEB box. With no virus checking of
    incoming e-mail it will render my WSEB useless.


  7. Re: More stuff gone!

    HarryWho wrote:
    > With no NAV updates my WSEB can no longer reliably use it as my e-mail
    > gateway/server for my family. My kids and wife + friends all have WinXP
    > and their email accounts are all on my WSEB box. With no virus checking
    > of incoming e-mail it will render my WSEB useless.
    >


    It would seem that ClamAV fits the bill then:

    > Clam AntiVirus is a Open Source anti-virus toolkit for Unix like Operating Systems. This is made to integrate with mail servers for attachement scanning rather than to work on machines to scan resident files. It provides a flexible and scalable multi-threaded daemon, a command line scanner and a tool for automatic virus definitions update on the Internet. The virus database is kept updated and is freely downloadable. It ships with a library on which most of the programs are based. More information can be had from its site clamav.net



  8. Re: More stuff gone!

    On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 09:40:45 UTC in comp.os.os2.misc, os2box@niclan.com.au
    (HarryWho) wrote:

    > With no NAV updates my WSEB can no longer reliably use it as my e-mail
    > gateway/server for my family. My kids and wife + friends all have WinXP
    > and their email accounts are all on my WSEB box. With no virus checking of
    > incoming e-mail it will render my WSEB useless.


    That's what clamav is for - at least on *ix systems, it has hooks in most mail
    systems to allow for AV scanning but I have no idea if any of them have been
    ported to OS/2.

    --
    Trevor Hemsley, Brighton, UK
    Trevor dot Hemsley at ntlworld dot com

  9. Re: More stuff gone!

    Hi, Trevor-

    In article ,
    Trevor.Hemsley@mytrousers.ntlworld.com says...

    > That's what clamav is for - at least on *ix systems, it has hooks in most mail
    > systems to allow for AV scanning but I have no idea if any of them have been
    > ported to OS/2.


    Using Weasel, you can easily have ClamAV set up to scan your messages.
    I am not doing it currently, but if you read the Weasel documentation,
    you can put it as a stage 6 filter and go from there.

    FWIW, I've never, ever once used antivirus software on any of my OS/2-
    eCS boxes in the 12 years I've been running OS/2. I've never needed it.

    Later,
    Sean

  10. Re: More stuff gone!

    On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 03:11:45 UTC, Sean Dennis wrote:

    > Using Weasel, you can easily have ClamAV set up to scan your messages.
    > I am not doing it currently, but if you read the Weasel documentation,
    > you can put it as a stage 6 filter and go from there.
    >
    > FWIW, I've never, ever once used antivirus software on any of my OS/2-
    > eCS boxes in the 12 years I've been running OS/2. I've never needed it.


    Nor I did. While anyone of my friends complains about virii and
    malware, I keep going happily on my eCS box.

    Mentore

  11. Re: More stuff gone!

    On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:34:06 UTC, Paul Ratcliffe
    wrote:

    > Really, what a load of unsubstantiated old waffle. Just shut up will you.


    Paul, if YOU want to run without some sort of virus protection, be my
    guest. I will continue to advocate that ALL users, of EVERY OS, should
    use virus protection, whether it would seem to be necessary, or not.
    To do otherwise, is foolhardy, at best, and has the potential to be
    absolutely disasterous, if you don't.

    --
    From the eComStation 2.0 RC2 of Doug Bissett
    dougb007 at telus dot net
    (Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)


  12. Re: More stuff gone!

    On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:33:42 GMT, Doug Bissett wrote:

    >> Really, what a load of unsubstantiated old waffle. Just shut up will you.

    >
    > Paul, if YOU want to run without some sort of virus protection, be my
    > guest. I will continue to advocate that ALL users, of EVERY OS, should
    > use virus protection, whether it would seem to be necessary, or not.
    > To do otherwise, is foolhardy, at best, and has the potential to be
    > absolutely disasterous, if you don't.


    No it isn't. I note that you have sidestepped my questions and have been
    unable to substantiate any of your wild claims with any hard evidence.
    You have provided not one shred of anything. I think that speaks volumes,
    but you've just got your head stuck up where the sun don't shine.

    If you continue to spout this crap, I will continue to debunk your
    valueless claims.

  13. Re: More stuff gone!

    On 09/30/08 04:34 am, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
    > On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:26:50 GMT, Doug Bissett wrote:
    >
    >> To assume that an eCS, or OS/2, user doesn't need some sort of virus
    >> protection, is very dangerous. True, there are no known viruses that
    >> affect eCS


    Back in Warp 3 days I had a boot sector virus that showed up in DOS
    sessions.

    >
    > Kinda pointless running a virus checker then.
    >
    >> unless you run ODIN, or use the innotek runtime, or use
    >> WinOS2, or use e-mail, or use a web browser (or, who knows what else).

    >
    > So, you'll be able to give us at least 1 example of a virus that fits
    > each of these categories then?


    Right now if I go to http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/welcome/ something
    starts up winos2 (win32s installed) which is identified as VDM\Proxy
    Browser. I haven't been able to trace it down yet. Clamav doesn't find
    anything. This makes my browser nonresponsive until I kill the VDM
    session twice.
    A while back there also was an exploit that
    a) due to a bug did not work on OS/2
    b) the author hard coded cmd.exe as C:\windows\cmd.exe
    Exploits like this are a real possibility now that we are using main
    stream browsers.
    Dave



  14. Re: More stuff gone!

    In <0cb6ad72a285beb2dc24fe420d32181e$1@www.niclan.com. au>, on 10/01/2008
    at 09:40 AM, os2box@niclan.com.au (HarryWho) said:

    >With no NAV updates my WSEB can no longer reliably use it as my e-mail
    >gateway/server for my family. My kids and wife + friends all have WinXP
    >and their email accounts are all on my WSEB box. With no virus checking
    >of incoming e-mail it will render my WSEB useless.


    NAV updates are still available. The .lin files supplied for Linux are
    just renamed .zip files. The .lin files don't have OS/2 specific engine
    updates, but you've been running NAV without any of these for many years.
    I guess you've been lucky that your windows boxes have not been attacked
    by any of the threats are are invisible to the NAV virus engine.

    Steven

    --
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Steven Levine MR2/ICE 3.00.11.17 BETA #10183
    eCS/Warp/DIY/14.103a_W4 www.scoug.com irc.ca.webbnet.info #scoug (Wed 7pm PST)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  15. Re: More stuff gone!

    On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 00:31:21 UTC, Paul Ratcliffe
    wrote:

    > On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:33:42 GMT, Doug Bissett wrote:
    >
    > >> Really, what a load of unsubstantiated old waffle. Just shut up will you.

    > >
    > > Paul, if YOU want to run without some sort of virus protection, be my
    > > guest. I will continue to advocate that ALL users, of EVERY OS, should
    > > use virus protection, whether it would seem to be necessary, or not.
    > > To do otherwise, is foolhardy, at best, and has the potential to be
    > > absolutely disasterous, if you don't.

    >
    > No it isn't. I note that you have sidestepped my questions and have been
    > unable to substantiate any of your wild claims with any hard evidence.
    > You have provided not one shred of anything. I think that speaks volumes,
    > but you've just got your head stuck up where the sun don't shine.


    That sounds, exactly, like what IBM said, years ago, when the first
    virus wave hit DOS. It took IBM management about 3 months to
    acknowledge that viruses existed, meanwhile, those who actually knew
    something about PC software, jumped in, and built the first IBM
    antivirus program, which solved the problem, at that time (and it
    wasn't Microsoft who did it either, they were on IBM managements side,
    and claimed viruses were impossible). I don't have the time, or the
    interest, to quote specific examples of what viruses can, and will, do
    to OS/2. Others are adding to this thread, describing a few things
    that have happened to them. If YOU don't believe it, then YOU have
    been VERY lucky that you haven't had a problem.

    I have been using AV software, since the first IBM AV program became
    available, and, even recently, I get the odd virus sent to me in
    (usually, SPAM) e-mail. Without ClamAV (and NVC before that), I
    probably wouldn't even realize that I got them. True, they never would
    have done anything to an OS/2 program (other than, perhaps, cause an
    abend, or a system crash), and it is very unlikely, that I would use
    the files, in any way, but who knows what they could do to the windows
    support (Innotek runtime, ODIN, WinOS2 etc.), if they ever got into
    that stuff. I, for one, would much rather know that I have a bad file,
    and immediately dispose of it, rather than depend on the OS/2
    operating system to protect me from damage.

    > If you continue to spout this crap, I will continue to debunk your
    > valueless claims.


    Say what you feel you must. It is YOU who have your head where the sun
    don't shine, just like IBM management did, 20 odd years ago. It may
    never actually happen, that a virus will actually operate in OS/2, but
    it is all too easy to inadvertently pass one of those things to a
    windows user, and I don't plan on doing that, if there is anything I
    can do to reduce the possibility.

    You do as you like. I look at virus protection, as cheap insurance.
    You hope you never need it, but there will come a day, when you may be
    thankful that you have it.

    --
    From the eComStation 2.0 RC2 of Doug Bissett
    dougb007 at telus dot net
    (Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)


  16. Re: More stuff gone!

    On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 17:13:41 UTC in comp.os.os2.misc, "Doug Bissett"
    wrote:

    > On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 00:31:21 UTC, Paul Ratcliffe
    > wrote:
    >
    > > On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:33:42 GMT, Doug Bissett wrote:
    > >
    > > >> Really, what a load of unsubstantiated old waffle. Just shut up will you.
    > > >
    > > > Paul, if YOU want to run without some sort of virus protection, be my
    > > > guest. I will continue to advocate that ALL users, of EVERY OS, should
    > > > use virus protection, whether it would seem to be necessary, or not.
    > > > To do otherwise, is foolhardy, at best, and has the potential to be
    > > > absolutely disasterous, if you don't.

    > >
    > > No it isn't. I note that you have sidestepped my questions and have been
    > > unable to substantiate any of your wild claims with any hard evidence.
    > > You have provided not one shred of anything. I think that speaks volumes,
    > > but you've just got your head stuck up where the sun don't shine.

    >
    > That sounds, exactly, like what IBM said, years ago, when the first
    > virus wave hit DOS.


    The difference is that there are about 6 people in the world now with the
    capability of writing such a thing for OS/2 and 5 and half of them are reading
    this group and wouldn't do it anyway. The chances that any of the skript
    kiddies is going to write a virus for OS/2 is slim - why would they bother with
    such a thing when the total number of users they can expect to infect is
    probably a number under 4 digits in length.

    --
    Trevor Hemsley, Brighton, UK
    Trevor dot Hemsley at ntlworld dot com

  17. Re: More stuff gone!

    Hi Dave

    Dave Yeo wrote:
    > On 09/30/08 04:34 am, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
    >> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:26:50 GMT, Doug
    >> Bissett wrote:
    >>
    >>> To assume that an eCS, or OS/2, user doesn't need some sort of virus
    >>> protection, is very dangerous. True, there are no known viruses that
    >>> affect eCS

    >
    > Back in Warp 3 days I had a boot sector virus that showed up in DOS
    > sessions.
    >
    >>
    >> Kinda pointless running a virus checker then.
    >>
    >>> unless you run ODIN, or use the innotek runtime, or use
    >>> WinOS2, or use e-mail, or use a web browser (or, who knows what else).

    >>
    >> So, you'll be able to give us at least 1 example of a virus that fits
    >> each of these categories then?

    >
    > Right now if I go to http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/welcome/ something
    > starts up winos2 (win32s installed) which is identified as VDM\Proxy
    > Browser. I haven't been able to trace it down yet.



    My best guess: You have flash files (maybe *.flv) associated with
    MPlayer but your system has got confused and thinks you mean mplayer.exe
    included with winos2.


    Clamav doesn't find
    > anything.



    Makes my guess a possibility :-)


    This makes my browser nonresponsive until I kill the VDM
    > session twice.
    > A while back there also was an exploit that
    > a) due to a bug did not work on OS/2
    > b) the author hard coded cmd.exe as C:\windows\cmd.exe
    > Exploits like this are a real possibility now that we are using main
    > stream browsers.
    > Dave
    >
    >



    Silly me, I used to think Netscape was sort of mainstream... ;-)

    I do agree there seem to more chances of getting win32 executables
    downloaded onto your system that could be spyware/malware/whateverware.

    Every now and again I have a cleanup of all the odd files that end up in
    my %temp% directory. Occasionally I find a couple of unknown executable
    files; clicking on them usually produces a DOS 23 error which is a good
    clue that they are win32 executables. I think a recent file had a name
    something like divx_update_codec.exe and another often spotted filename
    is simply setup.exe

    As I very rarely download anything "windows" I am guessing that these
    odd files have arrived courtesy of my browser at some point without my
    knowledge.

    Regards

    Pete

  18. Re: More stuff gone!



    There is no OS/2 virus anywhere. Windows virus do not do anything to
    OS/2. Why do you keep believing there is something to worry about?





    In , on 10/03/2008
    at 05:13 PM, "Doug Bissett" said:



    >On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 00:31:21 UTC, Paul Ratcliffe
    > wrote:


    >> On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:33:42 GMT, Doug Bissett wrote:
    >>
    >> >> Really, what a load of unsubstantiated old waffle. Just shut up will you.
    >> >
    >> > Paul, if YOU want to run without some sort of virus protection, be my
    >> > guest. I will continue to advocate that ALL users, of EVERY OS, should
    >> > use virus protection, whether it would seem to be necessary, or not.
    >> > To do otherwise, is foolhardy, at best, and has the potential to be
    >> > absolutely disasterous, if you don't.

    >>
    >> No it isn't. I note that you have sidestepped my questions and have been
    >> unable to substantiate any of your wild claims with any hard evidence.
    >> You have provided not one shred of anything. I think that speaks volumes,
    >> but you've just got your head stuck up where the sun don't shine.


    >That sounds, exactly, like what IBM said, years ago, when the first
    >virus wave hit DOS. It took IBM management about 3 months to acknowledge
    >that viruses existed, meanwhile, those who actually knew something about
    >PC software, jumped in, and built the first IBM antivirus program, which
    >solved the problem, at that time (and it wasn't Microsoft who did it
    >either, they were on IBM managements side, and claimed viruses were
    >impossible). I don't have the time, or the interest, to quote specific
    >examples of what viruses can, and will, do to OS/2. Others are adding to
    >this thread, describing a few things that have happened to them. If YOU
    >don't believe it, then YOU have been VERY lucky that you haven't had a
    >problem.


    >I have been using AV software, since the first IBM AV program became
    >available, and, even recently, I get the odd virus sent to me in
    >(usually, SPAM) e-mail. Without ClamAV (and NVC before that), I probably
    >wouldn't even realize that I got them. True, they never would have done
    >anything to an OS/2 program (other than, perhaps, cause an abend, or a
    >system crash), and it is very unlikely, that I would use the files, in
    >any way, but who knows what they could do to the windows support (Innotek
    >runtime, ODIN, WinOS2 etc.), if they ever got into that stuff. I, for
    >one, would much rather know that I have a bad file, and immediately
    >dispose of it, rather than depend on the OS/2 operating system to
    >protect me from damage.


    >> If you continue to spout this crap, I will continue to debunk your
    >> valueless claims.


    >Say what you feel you must. It is YOU who have your head where the sun
    >don't shine, just like IBM management did, 20 odd years ago. It may
    >never actually happen, that a virus will actually operate in OS/2, but it
    >is all too easy to inadvertently pass one of those things to a windows
    >user, and I don't plan on doing that, if there is anything I can do to
    >reduce the possibility.


    >You do as you like. I look at virus protection, as cheap insurance. You
    >hope you never need it, but there will come a day, when you may be
    >thankful that you have it.





  19. Re: More stuff gone!

    On 10/03/08 04:27 pm, Peter Brown wrote:
    > Hi Dave
    >
    > Dave Yeo wrote:

    [...]
    >> Right now if I go to http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/welcome/ something
    >> starts up winos2 (win32s installed) which is identified as VDM\Proxy
    >> Browser. I haven't been able to trace it down yet.

    >
    >
    > My best guess: You have flash files (maybe *.flv) associated with
    > MPlayer but your system has got confused and thinks you mean mplayer.exe
    > included with winos2.


    Don't remember associating flash with MPlayer but I will check it out.
    The thing is the adobe site is pretty well the only one that triggers
    this activity. Other Flash sites work as expected though I don't use
    Flash much due to bandwidth limits.

    >
    >
    > Clamav doesn't find
    >> anything.

    >
    >
    > Makes my guess a possibility :-)


    I'm pretty sure I've still got some examples of viruses in my mail
    folder that Clamav also never found and IIRC I have a test virus (right
    signature, not an executable) still. Unluckily with todays huge drives
    an amazing amount of cruft builds up and I've been slack in my house
    cleaning.

    >
    >
    > This makes my browser nonresponsive until I kill the VDM
    >> session twice.
    >> A while back there also was an exploit that
    >> a) due to a bug did not work on OS/2
    >> b) the author hard coded cmd.exe as C:\windows\cmd.exe
    >> Exploits like this are a real possibility now that we are using main
    >> stream browsers.
    >> Dave
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > Silly me, I used to think Netscape was sort of mainstream... ;-)


    Yes I guess I should of worded that better. Mainstream browsers that
    crackers are bothering to write exploits for
    While I remember a couple of security updates for Netscape I don't
    remember ever hearing of an exploit. Also our Netscape's were different
    enough (old versions with newer fixes) that general exploits were less
    likely to work.

    >
    > I do agree there seem to more chances of getting win32 executables
    > downloaded onto your system that could be spyware/malware/whateverware.
    >
    > Every now and again I have a cleanup of all the odd files that end up in
    > my %temp% directory. Occasionally I find a couple of unknown executable
    > files; clicking on them usually produces a DOS 23 error which is a good
    > clue that they are win32 executables. I think a recent file had a name
    > something like divx_update_codec.exe and another often spotted filename
    > is simply setup.exe


    Yes I've had a couple of offers for codecs I have my %TEMP% on a ram
    disk so a reboot always cleans it up.
    I also notice that clamav didn't clean up after itself.
    >
    > As I very rarely download anything "windows" I am guessing that these
    > odd files have arrived courtesy of my browser at some point without my
    > knowledge.
    >


    Yes we are like everyone else now, having to do frequent updates for
    security reasons.

    > Regards
    >
    > Pete


    Dave

  20. Re: More stuff gone!

    On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 02:09:59 UTC, TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:

    > There is no OS/2 virus anywhere. Windows virus do not do anything to
    > OS/2. Why do you keep believing there is something to worry about?


    The question is, is there some (theoretical) possibility that some
    Windows / Mac / Linux virus might damage some OS/2 components?
    Especially now that we rely so much on components like LIBC/kLIBC,
    Mozilla and Odin/Innotek Runtime?

    Some say yes, some say not. It's user's freedom and responsability to
    choose if to use an antivirus program (and OS/2 has got at least two
    of them native) or not, and take some risk.

    It's such a simple question I can't understand why this is causing
    these flames.

    Btw, could you reply in a not-Outlook way? Thanks in advance :-)

    Mentore

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