IPF tables misaligned - OS2

This is a discussion on IPF tables misaligned - OS2 ; When I use newview to display tables containing HPn/EHPn highlighting inside cells, the vertical bars don't align. I'm using eCS 1.1, which is Warp 4.52; I haven't tried other releases. Has anybody else seen this, and is there a bypass? ...

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Thread: IPF tables misaligned

  1. IPF tables misaligned

    When I use newview to display tables containing HPn/EHPn highlighting
    inside cells, the vertical bars don't align. I'm using eCS 1.1, which is
    Warp 4.52; I haven't tried other releases.

    Has anybody else seen this, and is there a bypass?

    --
    Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT

    Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
    right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
    domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
    reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org


  2. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
    > When I use newview to display tables containing HPn/EHPn highlighting
    > inside cells, the vertical bars don't align. I'm using eCS 1.1, which is
    > Warp 4.52; I haven't tried other releases.
    >
    > Has anybody else seen this, and is there a bypass?


    Are you using a proportionally spaced font or monospaced?

    --
    [Reverse the parts of the e-mail address to reply.]

  3. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
    > When I use newview to display tables containing HPn/EHPn highlighting
    > inside cells, the vertical bars don't align. I'm using eCS 1.1, which is
    > Warp 4.52; I haven't tried other releases.
    >
    > Has anybody else seen this, and is there a bypass?


    Are you using a proportionally spaced font or monospaced?

    --
    [Reverse the parts of the e-mail address to reply.]

  4. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:29:45 UTC, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
    wrote:

    > When I use newview to display tables containing HPn/EHPn highlighting
    > inside cells, the vertical bars don't align. I'm using eCS 1.1, which is
    > Warp 4.52; I haven't tried other releases.
    >
    > Has anybody else seen this, and is there a bypass?


    Yes and no. Even the standard view.exe works this way.
    --
    "I smell blood and an era of prominent madmen." - W.H. Auden

  5. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:29:45 UTC, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
    wrote:

    > When I use newview to display tables containing HPn/EHPn highlighting
    > inside cells, the vertical bars don't align. I'm using eCS 1.1, which is
    > Warp 4.52; I haven't tried other releases.
    >
    > Has anybody else seen this, and is there a bypass?


    Yes and no. Even the standard view.exe works this way.
    --
    "I smell blood and an era of prominent madmen." - W.H. Auden

  6. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    In , on 06/16/2008
    at 04:56 PM, Marty said:

    >Are you using a proportionally spaced font or monospaced?


    Probably proportional, but doesn't newview use PM facilities to position
    the text?

    --
    Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT

    Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
    right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
    domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
    reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org


  7. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    In , on 06/16/2008
    at 04:56 PM, Marty said:

    >Are you using a proportionally spaced font or monospaced?


    Probably proportional, but doesn't newview use PM facilities to position
    the text?

    --
    Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT

    Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
    right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
    domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
    reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org


  8. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
    > In , on 06/16/2008
    > at 04:56 PM, Marty said:
    >
    >>Are you using a proportionally spaced font or monospaced?

    >
    > Probably proportional, but doesn't newview use PM facilities to position
    > the text?


    Not sure what it uses internally, but I don't think IPF allows for any
    positional anchors to line up the edges for tables. I think it just
    relies on the character cells being the same width.

    The problem exists in IBM's VIEW and I'm sure it would have been
    prevented if possible in NewView, but it still exists there. Switching
    to a monospaced font should work around the problem I believe (and the
    IBM reference books I've seen do precisely this).

    --
    [Reverse the parts of the e-mail address to reply.]

  9. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
    > In , on 06/16/2008
    > at 04:56 PM, Marty said:
    >
    >>Are you using a proportionally spaced font or monospaced?

    >
    > Probably proportional, but doesn't newview use PM facilities to position
    > the text?


    Not sure what it uses internally, but I don't think IPF allows for any
    positional anchors to line up the edges for tables. I think it just
    relies on the character cells being the same width.

    The problem exists in IBM's VIEW and I'm sure it would have been
    prevented if possible in NewView, but it still exists there. Switching
    to a monospaced font should work around the problem I believe (and the
    IBM reference books I've seen do precisely this).

    --
    [Reverse the parts of the e-mail address to reply.]

  10. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:53:33 UTC, Marty wrote:

    > >>Are you using a proportionally spaced font or monospaced?

    > >
    > > Probably proportional, but doesn't newview use PM facilities to position
    > > the text?

    >
    > Not sure what it uses internally, but I don't think IPF allows for any
    > positional anchors to line up the edges for tables. I think it just
    > relies on the character cells being the same width.
    >
    > The problem exists in IBM's VIEW and I'm sure it would have been
    > prevented if possible in NewView, but it still exists there. Switching
    > to a monospaced font should work around the problem I believe (and the
    > IBM reference books I've seen do precisely this).


    The problem is when you include bold text, which actually changes the font
    to use characters of greater width. Hence the alignment problem. No way
    around it that I know of... just avoid using bold in tables.

    --
    Alex Taylor
    Fukushima, Japan
    http://www.socis.ca/~ataylo00

    Please take off hat when replying.

  11. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:53:33 UTC, Marty wrote:

    > >>Are you using a proportionally spaced font or monospaced?

    > >
    > > Probably proportional, but doesn't newview use PM facilities to position
    > > the text?

    >
    > Not sure what it uses internally, but I don't think IPF allows for any
    > positional anchors to line up the edges for tables. I think it just
    > relies on the character cells being the same width.
    >
    > The problem exists in IBM's VIEW and I'm sure it would have been
    > prevented if possible in NewView, but it still exists there. Switching
    > to a monospaced font should work around the problem I believe (and the
    > IBM reference books I've seen do precisely this).


    The problem is when you include bold text, which actually changes the font
    to use characters of greater width. Hence the alignment problem. No way
    around it that I know of... just avoid using bold in tables.

    --
    Alex Taylor
    Fukushima, Japan
    http://www.socis.ca/~ataylo00

    Please take off hat when replying.

  12. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    In article <99SdnWA8q8SZr8XVnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
    net@comcast.martyamodeo says...
    > Not sure what it uses internally, but I don't think IPF allows for any
    > positional anchors to line up the edges for tables. I think it just
    > relies on the character cells being the same width.


    This is correct. IPF file format has no table or vector/line support;
    aside from images, everything is built with plain old text characters.
    It is *much* more primitive than HTML, for example. I can't really think
    of any benefit to it these days. It's only still useful for the many old
    documents in it (and apps linking to them for help).


    --
    aaronl at consultant dot com
    For every expert, there is an equal and
    opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke

  13. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    In article <99SdnWA8q8SZr8XVnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
    net@comcast.martyamodeo says...
    > Not sure what it uses internally, but I don't think IPF allows for any
    > positional anchors to line up the edges for tables. I think it just
    > relies on the character cells being the same width.


    This is correct. IPF file format has no table or vector/line support;
    aside from images, everything is built with plain old text characters.
    It is *much* more primitive than HTML, for example. I can't really think
    of any benefit to it these days. It's only still useful for the many old
    documents in it (and apps linking to them for help).


    --
    aaronl at consultant dot com
    For every expert, there is an equal and
    opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke

  14. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:51:27 UTC, Aaron Lawrence wrote:

    > > Not sure what it uses internally, but I don't think IPF allows for any
    > > positional anchors to line up the edges for tables. I think it just
    > > relies on the character cells being the same width.

    >
    > This is correct. IPF file format has no table or vector/line support;
    > aside from images, everything is built with plain old text characters.
    > It is *much* more primitive than HTML, for example. I can't really think
    > of any benefit to it these days. It's only still useful for the many old
    > documents in it (and apps linking to them for help).


    It's still the best thing available for online help files and books. HTML
    is vastly less convenient; PDF even less so.

    --
    Alex Taylor
    Fukushima, Japan
    http://www.socis.ca/~ataylo00

    Please take off hat when replying.

  15. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:51:27 UTC, Aaron Lawrence wrote:

    > > Not sure what it uses internally, but I don't think IPF allows for any
    > > positional anchors to line up the edges for tables. I think it just
    > > relies on the character cells being the same width.

    >
    > This is correct. IPF file format has no table or vector/line support;
    > aside from images, everything is built with plain old text characters.
    > It is *much* more primitive than HTML, for example. I can't really think
    > of any benefit to it these days. It's only still useful for the many old
    > documents in it (and apps linking to them for help).


    It's still the best thing available for online help files and books. HTML
    is vastly less convenient; PDF even less so.

    --
    Alex Taylor
    Fukushima, Japan
    http://www.socis.ca/~ataylo00

    Please take off hat when replying.

  16. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    In , on 06/26/2008
    at 12:51 AM, Aaron Lawrence said:

    >It is *much* more primitive than HTML, for example.


    FSVO primitive. It's certainly more primitive than, e.g., BookMaster,
    DocBook, but it has facilities that HTML lacks.

    --
    Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT

    Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
    right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
    domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
    reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org


  17. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    In , on 06/26/2008
    at 12:51 AM, Aaron Lawrence said:

    >It is *much* more primitive than HTML, for example.


    FSVO primitive. It's certainly more primitive than, e.g., BookMaster,
    DocBook, but it has facilities that HTML lacks.

    --
    Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT

    Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
    right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
    domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
    reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org


  18. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    On 25.06.08 15:46, Alex Taylor wrote:

    > On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:51:27 UTC, Aaron Lawrence
    > wrote:
    >
    >> It is *much* more primitive than HTML, for example. I can't really
    >> think of any benefit to it these days. It's only still useful for
    >> the many old documents in it (and apps linking to them for help).

    >
    > It's still the best thing available for online help files and books.
    > HTML is vastly less convenient; PDF even less so.


    Most likely you're talking about speed. IPF comes with an index that
    makes searching fast and that's also browsable. (Searching in HTML or
    even in PDF is a PITA.) Additionally, it automatically creates the TOC.

    OTOH, its formatting facilities are poor and even too simple to
    provide a homogenous appearance, especially for technical texts that
    include source code and examples. IMO, that weakness of IPF is also
    its strength: You can't format the text until it gets unreadable, as
    possible for HTML texts. That means: HTML is not generally unsuitable
    for program docs, but it's quite easy to format the text badly, that
    it would be harder to read it than an IPF-based text.

    That means: The problem is not the variety of facilities HTML
    provides, but has to do with how they were applied by the authors.

    --
    Andreas Schnellbacher

  19. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    On 25.06.08 15:46, Alex Taylor wrote:

    > On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:51:27 UTC, Aaron Lawrence
    > wrote:
    >
    >> It is *much* more primitive than HTML, for example. I can't really
    >> think of any benefit to it these days. It's only still useful for
    >> the many old documents in it (and apps linking to them for help).

    >
    > It's still the best thing available for online help files and books.
    > HTML is vastly less convenient; PDF even less so.


    Most likely you're talking about speed. IPF comes with an index that
    makes searching fast and that's also browsable. (Searching in HTML or
    even in PDF is a PITA.) Additionally, it automatically creates the TOC.

    OTOH, its formatting facilities are poor and even too simple to
    provide a homogenous appearance, especially for technical texts that
    include source code and examples. IMO, that weakness of IPF is also
    its strength: You can't format the text until it gets unreadable, as
    possible for HTML texts. That means: HTML is not generally unsuitable
    for program docs, but it's quite easy to format the text badly, that
    it would be harder to read it than an IPF-based text.

    That means: The problem is not the variety of facilities HTML
    provides, but has to do with how they were applied by the authors.

    --
    Andreas Schnellbacher

  20. Re: IPF tables misaligned

    [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
    Alex Taylor
    ], who wrote in article :

    > It's still the best thing available for online help files and books.


    It would be the best *if* there were a decent viewer for it... And,
    IMO, INFO format comes very close in usability (and features).

    > HTML is vastly less convenient; PDF even less so.


    These two are abominations (at least in context of software
    documentation) indeed...

    Yours,
    Ilya

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