backagain/2 & JFS - OS2

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Thread: backagain/2 & JFS

  1. backagain/2 & JFS

    question.

    can you back up files from a HPFS drive to a JFS drive using backagain/2?


  2. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    On 09/25/07 05:27 am dilbert firestorm wrote:

    > can you back up files from a HPFS drive to a JFS drive using backagain/2?



    I don't know about BA/2, but BA/2000 can -- but still with the 2GB
    file-size limit.

    Demo versions (50MB limit) of BA/2K were on Bob Eager's Web site the
    last time I looked, and a bunch of activation keys were posted in one of
    the eCS newsgroups -- including the Autoloader Support Module key.

    Perce

  3. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:10:38 UTC, "Percival P. Cassidy"
    wrote:

    > On 09/25/07 05:27 am dilbert firestorm wrote:
    >
    > > can you back up files from a HPFS drive to a JFS drive using backagain/2?

    >
    >
    > I don't know about BA/2, but BA/2000 can -- but still with the 2GB
    > file-size limit.
    >
    > Demo versions (50MB limit) of BA/2K were on Bob Eager's Web site the
    > last time I looked, and a bunch of activation keys were posted in one of
    > the eCS newsgroups -- including the Autoloader Support Module key.


    http://www.tavi.co.uk/os2pages/oldsoft.html#CD

    --
    Bob Eager



  4. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
    >
    >> can you back up files from a HPFS drive to a JFS drive using backagain/2?

    >
    > I don't know about BA/2, but BA/2000 can -- but still with the 2GB
    > file-size limit.
    >

    Same for BA/2.
    Both exhibit a serious defect when the file size reaches 2GB: They go
    into an infinite loop that is very hard to break since it consumes almost
    all CPU time.

    --
    jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
    (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

  5. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    Jim Moe wrote:
    > Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
    >
    >>> can you back up files from a HPFS drive to a JFS drive using backagain/2?
    >>>

    >> I don't know about BA/2, but BA/2000 can -- but still with the 2GB
    >> file-size limit.
    >>
    >>

    > Same for BA/2.
    > Both exhibit a serious defect when the file size reaches 2GB: They go
    > into an infinite loop that is very hard to break since it consumes almost
    > all CPU time.
    >

    I take it that this causes OS/2 to lock up since all the cycles sucked
    up when back again is run.

    I have Backagain/2000, I have the 2.x version so, I never upgraded to
    the 3.x versions.

    If I backed up the drive, it would have to be in 2 gb increments?

  6. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    On 09/28/07 04:58 am dilbert firestorm wrote:

    > Jim Moe wrote:
    >> Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
    >>
    >>>> can you back up files from a HPFS drive to a JFS drive using
    >>>> backagain/2?
    >>>>
    >>> I don't know about BA/2, but BA/2000 can -- but still with the 2GB
    >>> file-size limit.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Same for BA/2.
    >> Both exhibit a serious defect when the file size reaches 2GB: They go
    >> into an infinite loop that is very hard to break since it consumes almost
    >> all CPU time.
    >>

    > I take it that this causes OS/2 to lock up since all the cycles sucked
    > up when back again is run.
    >
    > I have Backagain/2000, I have the 2.x version so, I never upgraded to
    > the 3.x versions.
    >
    > If I backed up the drive, it would have to be in 2 gb increments?


    Correct. But do consider getting a decent tape drive. Even Sony (or ones
    rebranded as Compaq or Dell) DDS4 autoloaders can be bought on eBay for
    less than $100, and the last lot of DDS4 tapes (20GB without
    compression, and no file-size limit with BA/2K) I bought (not on eBay)
    cost me $3.50 each (in quantity). You can go away and leave it running,
    and you can keep duplicate sets of tapes off-site, mail them, or even
    drop them. I do a full backup of all the machines on our home network in
    the early hours of every Sunday morning and differential backups every
    night.

    Perce



  7. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    dilbert firestorm wrote:
    >>>

    >> Same for BA/2.
    >> Both exhibit a serious defect when the file size reaches 2GB: They go
    >> into an infinite loop that is very hard to break since it consumes almost
    >> all CPU time.
    >>

    > I take it that this causes OS/2 to lock up since all the cycles sucked
    > up when back again is run.
    >

    Essentially. It is possible to kill BA/2[000] but it has to be done with
    something like procman or Watchcat.
    >
    > If I backed up the drive, it would have to be in 2 gb increments?


    Yes.

    --
    jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
    (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

  8. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:58:12 UTC, dilbert firestorm
    wrote:

    ....snip...
    > I take it that this causes OS/2 to lock up since all the cycles sucked
    > up when back again is run.


    It can be killed, with something like WatchCat, or CADH (I use the
    later, since it is part of eCS).

    > I have Backagain/2000, I have the 2.x version so, I never upgraded to
    > the 3.x versions.


    I recommend version 4.10, which is the latest available (that I know
    about). You can download it at:

    > http://www.tavi.co.uk/os2pages/oldsoft.html


    I think there are keys included. If not, they are posted somewhere
    (Sorry, I can't find that information, at the moment).

    > If I backed up the drive, it would have to be in 2 gb increments?


    Actually, you can back up more than that, as long as the output file
    remains less than 2 GiB. I find that, most of the time, about 2.5 GiB
    of data, will compress into something less than 2 GiB. Of course that
    depends on what the data is. Windows programs tend to be very wasteful
    of space, and something a little over 3 GiB will compress into
    something less than 2 GiB, while 2 GiB of ZIP files will output to a 2
    GiB backup file. Some experimenting may be required. I would suggest
    starting with about 2 GiB of input data, and see how big the backup
    file is. Then, you can add more input files, until you approach the 2
    GiB size for the output file, although I would also suggest that you
    leave plenty of room for expansion.

    I suggest thinking about, exactly, what it is that you are backing up.
    There are likely a lot of files that you don't really need to back up,
    while other files tend to naturally group themselves into groups
    (photos, music, movies etc.), and it may actually make more sense to
    simply write them to CD, or DVD, rather than using a backup program.
    That way, you can use the files on any operating system that has a
    CD/DVD reader, and a program to handle the data format.

    Hope this helps...
    --
    From the eComStation 2.0 RC2 of Doug Bissett
    dougb007 at telus dot net
    (Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)


  9. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    Doug Bissett wrote:
    > On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:58:12 UTC, dilbert firestorm
    > wrote:
    >
    > ...snip...
    >
    >> I take it that this causes OS/2 to lock up since all the cycles sucked
    >> up when back again is run.
    >>

    >
    > It can be killed, with something like WatchCat, or CADH (I use the
    > later, since it is part of eCS).
    >
    >
    >> I have Backagain/2000, I have the 2.x version so, I never upgraded to
    >> the 3.x versions.
    >>

    >
    > I recommend version 4.10, which is the latest available (that I know
    > about). You can download it at:
    >
    >
    >> http://www.tavi.co.uk/os2pages/oldsoft.html
    >>

    >
    > I think there are keys included. If not, they are posted somewhere
    > (Sorry, I can't find that information, at the moment).
    >
    >
    >> If I backed up the drive, it would have to be in 2 gb increments?
    >>

    >
    > Actually, you can back up more than that, as long as the output file
    > remains less than 2 GiB. I find that, most of the time, about 2.5 GiB
    > of data, will compress into something less than 2 GiB. Of course that
    > depends on what the data is. Windows programs tend to be very wasteful
    > of space, and something a little over 3 GiB will compress into
    > something less than 2 GiB, while 2 GiB of ZIP files will output to a 2
    > GiB backup file. Some experimenting may be required. I would suggest
    > starting with about 2 GiB of input data, and see how big the backup
    > file is. Then, you can add more input files, until you approach the 2
    > GiB size for the output file, although I would also suggest that you
    > leave plenty of room for expansion.
    >
    > I suggest thinking about, exactly, what it is that you are backing up.
    > There are likely a lot of files that you don't really need to back up,
    > while other files tend to naturally group themselves into groups
    > (photos, music, movies etc.), and it may actually make more sense to
    > simply write them to CD, or DVD, rather than using a backup program.
    > That way, you can use the files on any operating system that has a
    > CD/DVD reader, and a program to handle the data format.
    >
    > Hope this helps...
    >



    I generally do a full back up with uncompression for speed.

    I did have a bunch of pics on the L: drive, but I moved them to the X:
    drive before I started having problems with the L: drive.

    btw, I hope this was the understanding that my query is for hard drive
    backup to hard drive, not to tape drive .



  10. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
    > On 09/28/07 04:58 am dilbert firestorm wrote:
    >
    >> Jim Moe wrote:
    >>> Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> can you back up files from a HPFS drive to a JFS drive using
    >>>>> backagain/2?
    >>>>>
    >>>> I don't know about BA/2, but BA/2000 can -- but still with the 2GB
    >>>> file-size limit.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> Same for BA/2.
    >>> Both exhibit a serious defect when the file size reaches 2GB: They go
    >>> into an infinite loop that is very hard to break since it consumes
    >>> almost
    >>> all CPU time.
    >>>

    >> I take it that this causes OS/2 to lock up since all the cycles
    >> sucked up when back again is run.
    >>
    >> I have Backagain/2000, I have the 2.x version so, I never upgraded to
    >> the 3.x versions.
    >>
    >> If I backed up the drive, it would have to be in 2 gb increments?

    >
    > Correct. But do consider getting a decent tape drive. Even Sony (or
    > ones rebranded as Compaq or Dell) DDS4 autoloaders can be bought on
    > eBay for less than $100, and the last lot of DDS4 tapes (20GB without
    > compression, and no file-size limit with BA/2K) I bought (not on eBay)
    > cost me $3.50 each (in quantity). You can go away and leave it
    > running, and you can keep duplicate sets of tapes off-site, mail them,
    > or even drop them. I do a full backup of all the machines on our home
    > network in the early hours of every Sunday morning and differential
    > backups every night.
    >
    > Perce


    Tape drive? I dunno. I had a 2gb tape drive, but it died quite some
    time ago which is why my last tape back up is about 3 years old.

    Does it really make sense to buy a tape drive when a hard drive addition
    is a better alternative and is faster?

    so, its look like BA is a poor program in terms up backing things up to
    another hard drive, and possibly to the dvd drive.


  11. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:59:49 -0500, dilbert firestorm wrote:

    >>>> Same for BA/2.
    >>>> Both exhibit a serious defect when the file size reaches 2GB: They go
    >>>> into an infinite loop that is very hard to break since it consumes

    >>
    >> Correct. But do consider getting a decent tape drive. Even Sony (or
    >> ones rebranded as Compaq or Dell) DDS4 autoloaders can be bought on
    >> eBay for less than $100, and the last lot of DDS4 tapes (20GB without
    >> compression, and no file-size limit with BA/2K) I bought (not on eBay)
    >> cost me $3.50 each (in quantity). You can go away and leave it
    >> running, and you can keep duplicate sets of tapes off-site, mail them,
    >> or even drop them. I do a full backup of all the machines on our home
    >> network in the early hours of every Sunday morning and differential
    >> backups every night.
    >>
    >> Perce

    >
    > Tape drive? I dunno. I had a 2gb tape drive, but it died quite some
    > time ago which is why my last tape back up is about 3 years old.
    >
    > Does it really make sense to buy a tape drive when a hard drive addition
    > is a better alternative and is faster?


    DDS4 is quite fast, ~200MByte/Min with BA/2000

    > so, its look like BA is a poor program in terms up backing things up to
    > another hard drive, and possibly to the dvd drive.


    Yes, but high capacity Tape drives like DDS4 or DLT are fine.

    I gave up backing up to DDS2 or DAT 8 tapes some time ago.
    I saved to USB hard disk or DVD-Ram. But recently I got a used DDS
    4 drive with changer and also a DLT4000 IBM drive for free.

    These tape drives match the size of my current hard disks and
    backing up to tapes is my prefered backup method again.



    Ciao, Hannes


    --
    >>> Rust never sleeps (borrowed from Neil YOUNG) <<<


  12. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 15:53:00 UTC, dilbert firestorm
    wrote:

    ....snip...
    > I generally do a full back up with uncompression for speed.


    Sometimes, depending on the backup media, compressing the data, before
    writing, is faster. Remember, that compression is done in memory, and
    that is relatively fast, with a modern computer, while some devices
    (pretty well everything, except a local hard drive), are so much
    slower, that writing less data (compressed), is actually faster.

    > I did have a bunch of pics on the L: drive, but I moved them to the X:
    > drive before I started having problems with the L: drive.
    >
    > btw, I hope this was the understanding that my query is for hard drive
    > backup to hard drive, not to tape drive .


    Personally, I wouldn't even consider tape for a backup media. Too many
    years of fixing tape drives, I guess.

    My prefered media, today, happens to be DVD+RW, simply because I have
    a DVD writer, and DVD+RW media. If I were to get something with a bit
    more capacity, it would be a USB connected hard disk. I doubt if that
    would be faster (even USB 2 is pretty slow), but I don't have one to
    do the comparison.

    I have also been experimenting with ARJ for doing backups. That
    program appears to have been designed with backups in mind, and it
    does a great job, although it does need a front end, and back end,
    program to make it easier to use (the command line is the ultimate
    *NIX mess, which is almost unintelligable for anyone who isn't a
    complete computer nerd).

    > http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/pub/os2/util/...r/arj2_310.exe


    RAR also seems to be similar, but I haven't really done much with it.

    > http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/pub/os2/util/...er/rar250p.exe


    Hope this helps...
    --
    From the eComStation 2.0 RC2 of Doug Bissett
    dougb007 at telus dot net
    (Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)


  13. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    On Sep 30, 3:22 pm, "Doug Bissett" wrote:
    > --
    > From the eComStation 2.0 RC2 of Doug Bissett


    Eight long years and Serenity still can't produce a GA of
    eComStation.

    Note here: There are two kinds of stupid people in this world: those
    that are born with half a brain and those who can't seem to use
    anything more than half a brain.

    I refuse to believe that Doogie was born that way.

    Dr. Tim Martin, The OS/2 Guy
    Warp City Web Site - http://www.warpcity.com


  14. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    dilbert firestorm wrote:
    >
    > I generally do a full back up with uncompression for speed.
    >

    To get the best speed out of a backup, you must have the target device
    on its own i/o channel.
    For instance, if you are backing up up a hard drive on IDE0, put the
    receiving drive on IDE1. This way it is only reading from one channel and
    writing to the other, minimal channel contention.

    --
    jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
    (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

  15. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    The OS/2 Guy wrote:
    > Eight long years and Serenity still can't produce a GA of
    > eComStation.


    Yes, unfortunately... Solution: Ubuntu 7.04? ... :-( or :-)

    warp


  16. eCS 2.00


    Apropos...
    August 31. it eComStation his website is not refreshed...
    Why?...

    warp

  17. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 22:16:43 UTC, "Percival P. Cassidy"
    wrote:

    > OK, the BA/2(K) people treated OS/2 users shabbily -- the people for
    > whom their program was created originally and who provided their
    > original income and profits -- but they did set out to write software
    > for serious computer users, who did *not* see hard disks as a suitable
    > backup medium. An internal hard disk cannot be stored off site
    > conveniently (unless in a removable carrier), and an external hard disk
    > is subject to being knocked and bumped while spinning, with possibly
    > disastrous results (been there, done that). An internal hard disk used
    > for backup probably is running off the same controller as the main
    > drive(s), so a controller fault that garbles the data on the main
    > drive(s) may do the same to the backup. I'd be prepared to bet money
    > that commercial enterprises that use RAID arrays and all kinds of
    > fault-tolerant equipment still perform regular backups to tape, with
    > copies stored in different locations.


    More or less. That was my job until June, working on the admin team
    for an enterprise storage & backup network. Even the ones which had
    the full RAID-managed storage (actually, _especially_ the ones that
    did) had multi-generational backups, with tapes sent to offsite storage
    every night.

    Mind you, virtual tape solutions are becoming the big thing nowadays.
    It's supposed to provide all the benefits of tape without the problems
    inherent in managing the actual tape media.


    > If you're prepared to use a backup medium as fragile as that on which
    > the original data is stored, you might as well use the RAR archive
    > program (on Hobbes, I think), which allows you to specify the size of
    > the "chunks" into which the archive is divided, so you can easily ensure
    > that they are smaller than 2GB (that's even assuming that RAR suffers
    > from the 2GB limit; I forget).


    It does. (Meaning you can't back up single files larger than 2GB at
    all -- Virtual PC users beware -- but AFAIK there's actually NO backup
    program for OS/2 that can do this.)

    I wrote a backup script to help do this with RAR, and I used it for
    a year or two before changing to DDS4 tape. (It's on Hobbes somewhere)

    --
    Alex Taylor
    http://www.cs-club.org/~alex

    Please take off hat when replying.

  18. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    On 2 Oct 2007 03:51:03 -0500, Alex Taylor wrote:

    > Mind you, virtual tape solutions are becoming the big thing nowadays.
    > It's supposed to provide all the benefits of tape without the problems
    > inherent in managing the actual tape media.


    How does this all work? What is the storage medium?

  19. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:51:03 UTC in comp.os.os2.misc, "Alex Taylor"
    wrote:

    >
    > > If you're prepared to use a backup medium as fragile as that on which
    > > the original data is stored, you might as well use the RAR archive
    > > program (on Hobbes, I think), which allows you to specify the size of
    > > the "chunks" into which the archive is divided, so you can easily ensure
    > > that they are smaller than 2GB (that's even assuming that RAR suffers
    > > from the 2GB limit; I forget).

    >
    > It does. (Meaning you can't back up single files larger than 2GB at
    > all -- Virtual PC users beware -- but AFAIK there's actually NO backup
    > program for OS/2 that can do this.)


    rar itself does not have a 2GB restriction, not on the files it backs up nor on
    the file(s) it backs up to. The OS/2 port may not be large file enabled though
    but there was at least one version that was - possibly compiled from source by
    an end user rather than provided by rar themselves. It needed a patched EMX
    runtime.

    --
    Trevor Hemsley, Brighton, UK
    Trevor dot Hemsley at ntlworld dot com

  20. Re: backagain/2 & JFS

    In article
    mail.me@reply.to.address "Alex Taylor" writes:

    > [...] (Meaning you can't back up single files larger than 2GB
    > at all -- Virtual PC users beware -- but AFAIK there's actually
    > NO backup program for OS/2 that can do this.)


    Does that even apply to ZIP in "save to multiple disk" mode? (I
    haven't used it that way in yonks, so don't know if it will save
    to multiple things other than floppies.)
    --
    Andrew Stephenson


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