In article <9mNmi.42$jU2.34@newsfe12.lga>
nobody@notmyISP.net "Percival P. Cassidy" writes:

> I've had an opportunity to play with our son's 2.2GHz MacBook Pro for a
> few days now -- and to read a little more about Macs -- and thought I
> would write a brief report here as a "counterbalance" to TM's pro-Mac
> euphoria.
>
> [...]

The general flavour of what you say matches my observations: on
the Mac NG which I follow, there are frequent discussions about
backup software, where Super Duper gets mentioned favourably.

The final conclusion, about it being cheaper to use a PCmachine
for running OS/2, is probably true. My own inclination, to set
up an Intel-Mac, stems from a growing need for Maccish software
-- mostly artwork-related. Continuing with OS/2 as eComStation
under Parallels has long been my plan: mainstays of my activity
are DOS or OS/2 flavoured; and OS/2's manners are vastly better
than those of OS-X, though we can hope OS-X will improve (maybe
with "Leonard" ).
--
Andrew Stephenson

I like OS X better than previous incarnations of the Mac OS, but I
still don't find it as user friendly as OS/2. I would rather use a
UNIX variant with X.

Apple still rates third for OS choices in my book.

[Followups set to comp.os.os2.advocacy]

(Don't berate me for the followup, because if we can no longer post to
the proper news group, then we are saying that the idiots have won.
This thread has nothing to do with OS/2 in the misc sense.)

--
Lee W. Riemenschneider
GO BOILERS!
Running eComStation (eCS)(the latest incarnation of OS/2)
Buy eCS everyone! Buy it now! http://www.ecomstation.com

On Jul 16, 9:50 am, "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
> I've had an opportunity to play with our son's 2.2GHz MacBook Pro for a
> few days now -- and to read a little more about Macs -- and thought I
> would write a brief report here as a "counterbalance" to TM's pro-Mac
> euphoria.
>
> The machine certainly is "cool"! So slim and eye-catching. The
> magnetically attached power cord is a great idea: tripping over the cord
> shouldn't bring the machine crashing to the ground. The (optionally)
> back-lit keyboard could be advantageous, although I found that it turns
> on too soon -- when the ambient light level is such that the
> illumination interferes with the legibility of the keycap labels rather
> than enhancing it.
>
> It's expensive compared to a similarly equipped PC-compatible notebook.
>
> What about usability?
>
> I haven't managed to crash it yet -- not that I was trying -- if by
> "crash" one means BSODs or trap screens. I have, however, managed to
> hang it completely a couple of times: I left it doing an overnight
> backup (using Clone Copy) to an external FireWire-connected drive. At
> some point it popped up a Software Update utility and offered to
> download a few updates, to which I responded "OK". Hours later both the
> backup and the software update were stuck and going nowhere. I managed
> to Force Quit both but still was unable to get the machine to do
> anything else. Time to hit the Power Switch.
>
> When I restarted and did the Software Update again, everything did seem
> to go OK, except that there was no flashing of the power indicator light
> (as described in the on-screen instructions) when I held down the power
> button to start the EFI Firmware Update. The update did seem to complete
> successfully, however.
>
> In the meantime I had been reading up about backup software for the Mac,
> only to find that most of it was judged (even by Mac fans) to be pretty
> hopeless -- partly, perhaps, because Apple keeps tampering with the OS
> and adding new "features" with which the backup software authors are not
> keeping up. Symlinks, ACLs, and file ownership attributes all may fall
> victim to these defects, as may file creation dates. The only program
> that received an unqualified approval was Super Duper, a $30 shareware
> program. I downloaded a copy and started the backup again. This time it
> stopped after about 45 minutes displaying a red bar with an "X", some
> black marks, and a red "B". Clicking "View Log" did nothing, and I
> noticed that some of the folder labels on the Dock were missing letters.
> I could not get the machine to respond by any normal method, so I
> powered down again.
>
> I had an opportunity to test the machine's security features. At first I
> thought that Apple had accomplished something truly great: the machine
> can be set so that it cannot be shut down completely without an
> Administrator-level password but can only be put in Sleep mode. So if it
> can't be forced to boot up from scratch there is no opportunity to boot
> from a CD that will allow one to change the passwords or to interrupt
> the boot sequence (Apple-S) and get to a Unix-like prompt where one can
> perform all kinds of Administrator tricks. I thought that Apple had even
> covered the disconnect-and-reconnect-power trick too: I had removed the
> battery from the notebook (the power cord being unplugged already), left
> it out for a while, then reinserted the battery, and back it came to the
> previous no-administrator-privileges account. What I had overlooked,
> however, was that by closing the notebook to turn it over and get at the
> battery I had put it into sleep mode first, so it simply resumed when it
> was powered up again. When I removed and replaced the battery without
> closing the notebook first, it did indeed reboot, and I was able to get
> to that Unix-like prompt.
>
> The machine has no BIOS password feature (it has EFI rather than BIOS
> anyway) such as is found on most PC compatibles, so there is no way
> AFAICS of preventing access to the machine with full Administrator
> (root) privileges. The Open Firmware Password feature is alleged to
> accomplish the same end, but it appears to be unreliable and is not
> officially supported.
>
> I haven't yet tried installing OS/2 or eCS with Parallels Desktop. If I
> did want a current-model notebook to run OS/2 or eCS and couldn't find
> one that would run one of those OSes directly, a Linux-friendly machine
> running Parallels for Linux would be cheaper and much more cost effective.
>
> Perce

On 07/16/07 12:50 pm Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

> I've had an opportunity to play with our son's 2.2GHz MacBook Pro for a
> few days now -- and to read a little more about Macs -- and thought I
> would write a brief report here as a "counterbalance" to TM's pro-Mac
> euphoria.
>
> The machine certainly is "cool"! So slim and eye-catching. The
> magnetically attached power cord is a great idea: tripping over the cord
> shouldn't bring the machine crashing to the ground. The (optionally)
> back-lit keyboard could be advantageous, although I found that it turns
> on too soon -- when the ambient light level is such that the
> illumination interferes with the legibility of the keycap labels rather
> than enhancing it.

I just discovered that it's possible to adjust the intensity of the
backlighting, which makes it a lot more useful.

> It's expensive compared to a similarly equipped PC-compatible notebook.
>
> What about usability?
>
> I haven't managed to crash it yet -- not that I was trying -- if by
> "crash" one means BSODs or trap screens. I have, however, managed to
> hang it completely a couple of times: I left it doing an overnight
> backup (using Clone Copy) to an external FireWire-connected drive. At
> some point it popped up a Software Update utility and offered to
> download a few updates, to which I responded "OK". Hours later both the
> backup and the software update were stuck and going nowhere. I managed
> to Force Quit both but still was unable to get the machine to do
> anything else. Time to hit the Power Switch.

Got the program name wrong. It's "Carbon Copy Clone."

> When I restarted and did the Software Update again, everything did seem
> to go OK, except that there was no flashing of the power indicator light
> (as described in the on-screen instructions) when I held down the power
> button to start the EFI Firmware Update. The update did seem to complete
> successfully, however.
>
> In the meantime I had been reading up about backup software for the Mac,
> only to find that most of it was judged (even by Mac fans) to be pretty
> hopeless -- partly, perhaps, because Apple keeps tampering with the OS
> and adding new "features" with which the backup software authors are not
> keeping up. Symlinks, ACLs, and file ownership attributes all may fall
> victim to these defects, as may file creation dates. The only program
> that received an unqualified approval was Super Duper, a $30 shareware
> program. I downloaded a copy and started the backup again. This time it
> stopped after about 45 minutes displaying a red bar with an "X", some
> black marks, and a red "B". Clicking "View Log" did nothing, and I
> noticed that some of the folder labels on the Dock were missing letters.
> I could not get the machine to respond by any normal method, so I
> powered down again.

I left the backup running again, then found a black screen with a mouse
pointer and a screen saver graphic -- but no desktop. There was no way I
could find of waking it up.



Perce

Andrew Stephenson wrote:

> In article <9mNmi.42$jU2.34@newsfe12.lga>
> nobody@notmyISP.net "Percival P. Cassidy" writes:
>
> > I've had an opportunity to play with our son's 2.2GHz MacBook Pro for a
> > few days now -- and to read a little more about Macs -- and thought I
> > would write a brief report here as a "counterbalance" to TM's pro-Mac
> > euphoria.
> >
> > [...]
>
> The general flavour of what you say matches my observations: on
> the Mac NG which I follow, there are frequent discussions about
> backup software, where Super Duper gets mentioned favourably.
>
> The final conclusion, about it being cheaper to use a PCmachine
> for running OS/2, is probably true. My own inclination, to set
> up an Intel-Mac, stems from a growing need for Maccish software
> -- mostly artwork-related. Continuing with OS/2 as eComStation
> under Parallels has long been my plan: mainstays of my activity
> are DOS or OS/2 flavoured; and OS/2's manners are vastly better
> than those of OS-X, though we can hope OS-X will improve (maybe
> with "Leonard" ).

I've had a Mac Pro for some months now, and agree entirely with the
assessment that OS X has a long way to go to be as friendly as OS/2.
Several features that I don't like stand out in my mind:

- It's not made easy to learn where in the directory structure you are.
This frustrating for someone with my mental organization.

- It's difficult, and sometimes impossible, to work largely with just
the keyboard - the pointer is essential.

- The degree of customizability is much lower than with OS/2.

- Many of the utility apps are much less well developed. For example
something as basic as setting up a print page is primitive - almost
useless; the file manager Midnight Commander, which is very capable
in Linux, is very limited in the OS X version.

- OS X has a disturbing similarity to Windows in how it thinks it
knows better than you do what you want to do.

- Windows are very inefficient in use of screen area: they take up a
lot more room and convey much less information.

- Almost everything is color-anemic.

I'll give it the rest of this year to get more accustomed to OS X, but
am seriously considering ditching that OS and installing a competent
Linux on the Mac Pro, or possibly FreeBSD. At least with command
lines one can make things happen.

- Dushan Mitrovich

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 03:05:46 UTC, "Lee Riemenschneider"
wrote:

>...
> [Followups set to comp.os.os2.advocacy]
>
> (Don't berate me for the followup, because if we can no longer post to
> the proper news group, then we are saying that the idiots have won.
> This thread has nothing to do with OS/2 in the misc sense.)


Mmm, having just enabled that NG for the first time in a dozen years, I am
reminded that the idiots won there a long time ago. However, you're right,
of course, and I won't post more to this thread on c.o.o.misc .



--
Dan Drake
dd@dandrake.com
http://www.dandrake.com/
porlockjr.blogspot.com

Dan Drake writes:

> Lee Riemenschneider wrote:

>>...
>> [Followups set to comp.os.os2.advocacy]
>>
>> (Don't berate me for the followup, because if we can no longer post to
>> the proper news group, then we are saying that the idiots have won.
>> This thread has nothing to do with OS/2 in the misc sense.)

> Mmm, having just enabled that NG for the first time in a dozen years, I am
> reminded that the idiots won there a long time ago.

Classic erroneous presupposition.

> However, you're right,of course, and I won't post more to this thread
> on c.o.o.misc .

Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim.

On 07/19/07 02:40 pm Dan Drake wrote:

>> (Don't berate me for the followup, because if we can no longer post to
>> the proper news group, then we are saying that the idiots have won.
>> This thread has nothing to do with OS/2 in the misc sense.)

> Mmm, having just enabled that NG for the first time in a dozen years, I am
> reminded that the idiots won there a long time ago. However, you're right,
> of course, and I won't post more to this thread on c.o.o.misc .


I posted in c.o.o.misc because (a) I don't do c.o.o.advocacy and (b)
this is the ng in which TM posted his euphoric effluent about the Mac
and all things Apple.

Perce

Percival P. Cassidy said on July 16, 2007 in comp.os.os2.misc...

"I've had an opportunity to play with our son's 2.2GHz MacBook Pro for
afew days now -- and to read a little more about Macs -- and thought I
would write a brief report here as a counterbalance" to TM's pro-Mac
euphoria ... "

I started to respond to this then realized once started, I’d need ample
time to write a comprehensive and passionate response – so here it is.
As a former OS/2 diehard I can remember believing no one could convince
me that OS/2 was dead or no longer worthy. OS/2 remains worthy but it
is no longer a viable platform and that’s reality. The only viable
option former OS/2 users have today that comes close to what they know
and love in OS/2 is Apple's OSX.

OSX is easier to learn for OS/2 users then any other OS because it is so
like OS/2 - object oriented unlike Microsoft. No OS will ever have the
WPS that OS/2 had but OSX is pretty darn close and it has features and
functions that are not found in OS/2. And many of those features are
“wow” features. It's a powerhouse of an operating system that doesn't
require backup or reinstallation. It doesn't freeze when sufficient
resources are present (I'll explain this a little further down) and the
darn thing "just works" all the time.

I remember holding off for months connecting up my HP Color LaserJet
printer when I bought my first Intel iMac. I held off because I dreaded
how I'd feel if it didn't work and like most printers under OS/2, my
chances of it working under OSX were probably not that good. After all,
I bought the HP on Timothy Sipples recommendation and with his discount
tips was able to get a $499 Color LaserJet for less than $100 bucks and
I had his word that it would work under OS/2. And it did but not
entirely. I couldn't get all the features to work like the ink monitors
and the duplex printing feature but under OS/2 that HP was an advantage
because it actually printed in beautiful color.

It finally came down to needing to produce some hard print work. I went
online and read the instructions from HP on how to connect it to the
iMac and thought it quite strange that no printer driver was required.
The basic instruction said to connect one end of a USB cable to the
printer and the other end of the USB cable to the computer. So I
plugged it in and watched the iMac screen for some sign that the printer
was detected but there was nothing. In Windows you get that silly "new
hardware detected" alert but nothing like that on the iMac. All I could
do was test it by sending something to the printer - and so I did - and
I got a print menu that said an HP Color LaserJet was attached. I
pushed print and to my amazement the page printed within seconds. I
tried printing from several other programs - FireFox, Word, TextEdit,
etc. and in each case the printer printed. When I went into the Mac
forums to ask why the system didn't give me some kind of alert the
answer was the same: no alert is needed. With OSX you can count on the
peripheral working once connected. I found, on a Mac, that it just works.

Same thing happened with my external LaCie Slim DVDRW/CDRW. Under OS/2
it worked ok although I couldn't use the disk etching labeler because I
was using OS/2 and I remember trying a bevy of USB files to get the
thing to be recognized by the system. And it was a hit and miss kind of
thing: if I rebooted the external drive may or may not work, I'd have to
fiddle around a bit.

And with my iMac I found I was pumping out CDs and DVDs like a banshee
and worried that I'd wear the SuperDrive out and because it was an
internal ROM I'd have to return the entire machine to Apple for
replacement should it break (or to any authorized dealer). Once I have
a machine I'm one of those people who do not like to let it go for
anything. I'll hire the Geek Squad to make an office call before I'll
load it up my machine and drop it off for repair or upgrade.

But just like the HP printer - when I plugged it in using either the
FireWire or USB connection, the darn thing "just worked". There was no
big announcement other then the little amber light lit up and the eject
key spit out the tray when pushed. Same for an external LaCie 600Gig
hard drive. Plugged it in and the first time I tried to file off to it,
the system recognized it was a new unformatted external hard drive and
said it would format and then save the file. And it did it all in just
a matter of minutes. Go ahead, format an external hard drive under OS/2
or WindowsXP and you'll be waiting for quite sometime. And when it is
finally formatted you then have to copy the file you originally intended
to file on the external in the first place. Neither OS/2 nor Windows
remembers the original file, it just knows that the hard drive has to be
formatted.

Do I miss the WPS GUI? Yes and no. The OSX GUI or desktop has features
that are not found in OS/2. I loved and depended upon the Object
Desktop floating tab bar where you could add a tab for different types
of apps then add the app icon to the tab - jam your mouse in the upper
right hand corner and the whole tab bar would appear.

You've got a better feature with the built-in OSX animated dock at the
bottom of your screen. You can move it to either side of the screen or
to the top but I like it at the bottom. You can make it as large or
small as you want and limit the number of items on it. You can make it
transparent or give it any color background. You can turn on the
magnification feature so when you draw your mouse over the icon it
magnifies. When ever a program is launched from the dock or needs
attention the program icon bounces up and down. Reminds me of a little
kid seeking a moment of attention. When a program in the dock is
running there is a little red arrow beneath it to let you know it is
active. And running programs don’t have to appear in the dock because
you can easily hide them. If you are downloading items the little icon
sitting in the dock not only tells you when it has completed the
download but also displays the speeds for up and downloads in realtime.
You don't get those kinds of thought-out convenient features in OS/2.
And OSX has a million of those types of “oh gee, aint’ that kewl…”
kind of stuff throughout the entire system. And you just keep
discovering them!

For instance, WiFi. I’m in a neighborhood where free WiFi is
everywhere. Quite seriously, I don’t need to subscribe to any broadband
service because free and fast WiFi is all around me. When I click on
the Airport icon in the top menu bar a drop down listing of all WiFi
availability is presented. The first second shows me all free available
WiFi connections. I can select any one and am instantly connected. No
password required. In the next section I see the private WiFi
connections – those of my neighbors and businesses around me. In the
third section I see my own in-house WiFi connection. I run Airport
Extreme that pumps WiFi throughout my home for all of my Mac networked
machines.

OSX, being object oriented like OS/2, allows you to open any folder on
your desktop and get to any other area of your system. It is so cool
that way. In Windows you have to use the iron-clad, never gonna leave
your desktop "My Computer" icon and it leaves much to be desired when it
comes to getting around your Windows system. But if you don't
understand an object oriented operating system, Apple provides you with
an icon in the Dock called "Finder" and it too will allow you to move
and manipulate around the OSX system very easily.

The pluses of OSX today outweigh the pluses of OS/2 of yesterday, for
me. Graphics, movies, applications a plenty, ease of use, reliability,
power, beauty, simplicity, cleverness of OSX are just not there in the
OS/2 of today. When OS/2 was at its prime it was "the" OS but today,
whether you want to face it or not, OS/2 has passed its prime and will
never return to anything of serious contention again (no matter what Bob
St. Johns tells you).

Let me tell you how easy it is to install a new program. We'll start
from the moment a new program is available. You download the program
file which is archived in disk image identified as .dmg. The OSX system
opens it up automatically and presents you with a folder. In that
folder is the program itself. Now you can run that program immediately
right from there, if you want, just to see how it works and whether you
want to keep it or not, or, you can drag it to your Applications folder.
(Where's the Application folder? Open any folder on your desktop and
it will be listed on the left hand side or open the "Finder" icon and
again, you'll see it on the left hand side.)

Now that's it. The program is installed. Click on the Program's icon
in the Applications folder and the program starts up and a copy of the
icon is placed on your Dock. If you are going to be using this program
often then with your right mouse button (yes, Mac's have a right mouse
button despite all the claims that it does not) and click on the option
that says "keep in dock".

Ok. Now let's say you don't like the program and you don't want it.
You open the Applications folder, locate the icon, right mouse on it and
"move it to Trash". That's it. The whole program is removed.

The spinning beach ball. When you don't have enough resources in
Windows you get the turning sand dial. You've seen it often on a
Windows system whenever you overtax the Windows system. The equivalent
in OSX is the spinning beach ball and you only get it when you don't
have sufficient system resources to complete the needed task. I learned
this right away when I had my first iMac. I'd have ten programs
running, I'd be downloading and uploading at the same time and I'd hit
the print key for a document only to see the spinning beach ball appear.
When I complained to other more experienced Mac users their response
was "more RAM". So I bought another 1 Gig stick of RAM and as promised,
the spinning beach ball stopped spinning.

Printing. I'm a pretty paperless guy. I'll do anything to avoid having
to print out a paper. You end up with stacks of papers that have to be
sorted and filed and placed somewhere in a file drawer. And whenever
you purchase something online they offer you that last screen that
documents your purchase and offers a print button for your files. So,
of course, you print it out for your records. Ahhh.... OSX offers a
very clever option - print to PDF. Press the print button and you'll
see the "Print to PDF" button. Push it and it will ask where you want
to file your PDF. It defaults to your Documents folder but you can put
it anywhere. In that documents folder I have other folders, one
entitled "Receipts" and I file it there. So there you have it. No need
to print because you can print to PDF.

Backing up. I back up to Google. There are a couple of backup programs
available for OSX and the reason there are so few of them is because it
is generally only the paranoid computer user who doesn't understand the
power and stability of OSX who believes he must backup his OS. Most
paranoid computer users come from the world of Microsoft, and rightly
so, but many OS/2 users relied upon and needed backups for their own
OS/2 systems because of corruption or other problematic problems. I can
still recall many who said they had to "reinstall OS/2 today from my
backup ...".

OSX is so solid that it is rare that you would ever find yourself in a
position have having to run a backup of your system. Ahh... but what
about the upcoming Time Machine in Leopard? Isn't that a backup
solution? Yes, yes it is and it is going to put the folks at SuperDuper
(the only viable backup software for OSX) out of business. But Time
Machine backs up each and every file so seamlessly and quietly in the
background to an external hard drive that primarily it will never be
used to reinstall a backup of the entire system. Instead, it will be
used to find a copy of that file you had ten months ago, that you
deleted and said you would never need again. Oops! Ten months later
you need that file. Open Time Machine and jump back ten months and with
CoverFlow you can peruse each of your documents or icons directly, not
just their names in a file listing, but an icon of the exact program or
file and any files associated with the program or file.

I know, I know - but what if my hard drive goes belly up and I need a
backup of my system? Well, Google gives you 2GIG plus storage space for
every Google email account so instead of filing off your backups to a
hard drive, just point it to your Google disk space and there it is,
ready for download and install when needed. Don't like Google? Ok.
Subscribe to Apple's Mac accounts and get your own email address with a
mac.com address. Along with that account you get a free website as well
as a gig of hard disk space and by the time Leopard is released, Apple
will most likely up that amount of space to 2 or even 3 Gig or hard disk
space. You can backup your OSX via iDisk. Very easy.

Mail. I *love* the mail program in OSX, especially when used with a
Mac.com account. Now you all know that I have a variety of email
accounts from OS2Guy at Gmail to OS2Guy at WarpCity.com and OS2Guy at
OS2Guy.com - ok, and probably a few more ;-)

Rather then log in to collect all of that mail in each account, I
configure each account to redirect that mail to my mac.com account. Now
here's one of the wonderful features of OSX mail and the mac.com
account. I get a TON of spam at my Yahoo and Gmail accounts and before
redirecting that mail to my mac.com account I would have to go in and
delete all that spam. Not with OSX's Mail program and my mac.com
account. For you see, Mac.com deletes it for me automatically. In fact
I rarely, if ever, see any spam through my mac.com account. Apple's
mail filters are so good they can detect a spam from a mile away and
they simply remove it making sure you never see it. You want to see
spam? Don't open a mac.com account, open a Gmail account. You'll see
lotsa spam there.

I can go on and on about OSX and the Mac machine but I think you
understand my love and enthusiasm for the OSX operating system. I wish
OS/2 were this hearty, robust and feature laden but it isn't. OS/2 is
dead. It really is. IBM sent me an email letter the other day to say
that my Passport Express contract was officially completed and dead as a
doornail and I'm sure several others have received one too.

Bottom line here guys - you're going to have to make a move. You can go
to Vista, Linux or OSX if you want to stay current and enjoy today's
world of computing. "Macs are too expensive..." is the cry of the
Microsoft fool who will give anything of you just move to Microsoft and
buy a new Dell PC. And whether you believe it or not, that's where it
is too expensive. If you feel you can't afford a brand new Mac off the
shelf at Apple or through the online store then for God's sake buy a
REFURBISHED Mac.

The word "Refurbished" received its bad name from people who tried to
fix Windows machines and lied to their customers about fixing previously
broken computers so they were new again. Now that is hogwash. If a Mac
user buys a Mac machine and finds it has a faulty drive and returns it
for a new machine then Apple removes that faulty drive and replaces it
with a brand new drive but they can't put it back on the shelf as a
brand new machine. In all intents and purposes it is a brand new
machine but legally they have to sell it as "refurbished". Apple makes
their own machines so you're not getting parts from a third party vendor
who got the part off another third party vendor who went out of business
two years ago. You are getting genuine Apple computers with parts that
have been replaced by other Apple parts.

What about warranties? Apple offers AppleCare. AppleCare extends the
life of your Apple computer for two full years - all labor and parts.
Wait. The first full year of your Apple computer is covered entirely
for all labor and parts. So when you buy your Apple computer don't add
on the additional price for AppleCare. Wait until you near the end of
the year and ask yourself then, do I need AppleCare? 90% of all Mac
users don't buy AppleCare and the reason is - Apple's hardware is so
well tested and made it isn't apt to go bad on you. Still, if you're an
guy who just has to have some fail safe backup insurance plan then buy
AppleCare but please, wait until the end of the year so you get a full
three year's worth of parts and labor Apple warranties.

I used to go on and on about OS/2 to anyone who would listen and more
often then not, those listeners would look at me like I was a nutcase.
So I'm sure you're looking at me today thinking "he's still a nutcase"
and I am - I'm a nutcase about my love for OSX and Macs and I know you
will be too if you decide to swing that way. And you're going to have
to swing one way or another. The sooner you accept that the happier
your life will be - again!

Take care,

Dr. Tim Martin, "The OS/2 Guy"
Warp City and OS/2 Guy web sites
http://www.WarpCity.com and http://www.os2guy.com

P.S. Don’t buy a MacBook Pro. Buy a MacBook. They are better.

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:50:01 UTC, tholen@antispam.ham wrote:

> Dan Drake writes:
>
> > Lee Riemenschneider wrote:
>
> >>...
> >> [Followups set to comp.os.os2.advocacy]
> >>
> >> (Don't berate me for the followup, because if we can no longer post to
> >> the proper news group, then we are saying that the idiots have won.
> >> This thread has nothing to do with OS/2 in the misc sense.)
>
> > Mmm, having just enabled that NG for the first time in a dozen years, I am
> > reminded that the idiots won there a long time ago.
>
> Classic erroneous presupposition.
>
> > However, you're right,of course, and I won't post more to this thread
> > on c.o.o.misc .
>
> Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim.

What a classic troll.

Talk about proving my point for me.

--
Dan Drake
dd@dandrake.com
http://www.dandrake.com/
porlockjr.blogspot.com

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:45:55 UTC, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

> On 07/19/07 02:40 pm Dan Drake wrote:
>... I am
> > reminded that the idiots won there a long time ago. However, you're right,
> > of course, and I won't post more to this thread on c.o.o.misc .
>
>
> I posted in c.o.o.misc because (a) I don't do c.o.o.advocacy and (b)
> this is the ng in which TM posted his euphoric effluent about the Mac
> and all things Apple.

[Promptly breaking one's own resolution:]
That's true, too. Why would anyone sign up to c.o.o.adv? Dumb thing to do.
Voice of experience speaking.


--
Dan Drake
dd@dandrake.com
http://www.dandrake.com/
porlockjr.blogspot.com

Dan Drake writes:

>>> Lee Riemenschneider wrote:

>>>> ...
>>>> [Followups set to comp.os.os2.advocacy]
>>>>
>>>> (Don't berate me for the followup, because if we can no longer post to
>>>> the proper news group, then we are saying that the idiots have won.
>>>> This thread has nothing to do with OS/2 in the misc sense.)

>>> Mmm, having just enabled that NG for the first time in a dozen years, I am
>>> reminded that the idiots won there a long time ago.

>> Classic erroneous presupposition.

>>> However, you're right,of course, and I won't post more to this thread
>>> on c.o.o.misc .

>> Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim.

> What a classic troll.

I'm well aware that your claim is a classic troll, Drake. You did, after
all, post more to the thread on c.o.o.misc in the act of saying that you
would not post more to the thread on c.o.o.misc.

> Talk about proving my point for me.

You did a very good job of contradicting yourself, Drake. And now for
the second time.

Dan Drake writes:

> Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

>> Dan Drake wrote:

>> ...

>>> I am
>>> reminded that the idiots won there a long time ago. However, you're right,
>>> of course, and I won't post more to this thread on c.o.o.misc .

>> I posted in c.o.o.misc because (a) I don't do c.o.o.advocacy and (b)
>> this is the ng in which TM posted his euphoric effluent about the Mac
>> and all things Apple.

> [Promptly breaking one's own resolution:]

Hence the classic troll.

> That's true, too. Why would anyone sign up to c.o.o.adv?

Perhaps to advocate OS/2?

> Dumb thing to do.

Speak for yourself, Drake.

> Voice of experience speaking.

So you admit to being dumb?

On 07/19/07 07:36 pm © The OS/2 Guy © wrote:

> Backing up. I back up to Google. There are a couple of backup programs
> available for OSX and the reason there are so few of them is because it
> is generally only the paranoid computer user who doesn't understand the
> power and stability of OSX who believes he must backup his OS. Most
> paranoid computer users come from the world of Microsoft, and rightly
> so, but many OS/2 users relied upon and needed backups for their own
> OS/2 systems because of corruption or other problematic problems. I can
> still recall many who said they had to "reinstall OS/2 today from my
> backup ...".
>
> OSX is so solid that it is rare that you would ever find yourself in a
> position have having to run a backup of your system. Ahh... but what
> about the upcoming Time Machine in Leopard? Isn't that a backup
> solution? Yes, yes it is and it is going to put the folks at SuperDuper
> (the only viable backup software for OSX) out of business. But Time
> Machine backs up each and every file so seamlessly and quietly in the
> background to an external hard drive that primarily it will never be
> used to reinstall a backup of the entire system. Instead, it will be
> used to find a copy of that file you had ten months ago, that you
> deleted and said you would never need again. Oops! Ten months later
> you need that file. Open Time Machine and jump back ten months and with
> CoverFlow you can peruse each of your documents or icons directly, not
> just their names in a file listing, but an icon of the exact program or
> file and any files associated with the program or file.
>
> I know, I know - but what if my hard drive goes belly up and I need a
> backup of my system? Well, Google gives you 2GIG plus storage space for
> every Google email account so instead of filing off your backups to a
> hard drive, just point it to your Google disk space and there it is,
> ready for download and install when needed. Don't like Google? Ok.
> Subscribe to Apple's Mac accounts and get your own email address with a
> mac.com address. Along with that account you get a free website as well
> as a gig of hard disk space and by the time Leopard is released, Apple
> will most likely up that amount of space to 2 or even 3 Gig or hard disk
> space. You can backup your OSX via iDisk. Very easy.


I'm not going to respond to the rest, but I will respond to this. IMO, a
business user is not going to want to depend on Google or any other
service run by somebody else for backups: s/he wants backups on tape or
other reliable medium locked in the safe and perhaps with additional
copies in the safe at another company location as well. The fact that
the Mac is (allegedly) more stable is irrelevant, especially in view of
the abysmal lack of security: the machine can be padlocked to a desk,
but if someone has access to it for just a few minutes, s/he can
interrupt that boot sequence, get to the command-line prompt with
root/administrator privileges and change passwords or delete accounts
and create major havoc.

Perce

Lee Riemenschneider wrote:
> I like OS X better than previous incarnations of the Mac OS, but I
> still don't find it as user friendly as OS/2.

You're joking right? 0S/2 is a heap of ****e.

> I would rather use a UNIX variant with X.

OS X is a UNIX variant. 0S/2 is't.

> Apple still rates third for OS choices in my book.

Which places it far above 0S/2.

> [Followups set to comp.os.os2.advocacy]
>
> (Don't berate me for the followup, because if we can no longer post to
> the proper news group, then we are saying that the idiots have won.
> This thread has nothing to do with OS/2 in the misc sense.)

What is the misc sense?

Who tholed?

>Dan Drake writes:
>
>>>> Lee Riemenschneider wrote:
>
>>>>> ...
>>>>> [Followups set to comp.os.os2.advocacy]
>>>>>
>>>>> (Don't berate me for the followup, because if we can no longer post to
>>>>> the proper news group, then we are saying that the idiots have won.
>>>>> This thread has nothing to do with OS/2 in the misc sense.)
>
>>>> Mmm, having just enabled that NG for the first time in a dozen years, I am
>>>> reminded that the idiots won there a long time ago.
>
>>> Classic erroneous presupposition.
>
>>>> However, you're right,of course, and I won't post more to this thread
>>>> on c.o.o.misc .
>
>>> Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim.
>
>> What a classic troll.
>
>I'm well aware that your claim is a classic troll, Drake. You did, after
>all, post more to the thread on c.o.o.misc in the act of saying that you
>would not post more to the thread on c.o.o.misc.
>
>> Talk about proving my point for me.
>
>You did a very good job of contradicting yourself, Drake. And now for
>the second time.

Make sure you lits him as an antagonist now, Davie.

--
Official Overseer of Kooks and Saucerheads for alt.astronomy
Trainer and leash holder of:
Honest "Clockbrain" John
nightbat "fro0tbat" of alt.astronomy
Tom "TommY Crackpotter" Potter


"You really are one of the litsiest people I know, Mr. Deco."
--Kali, quoted endlessly by David Tholen as evidence of "something"

On 07/22/07 03:04 pm I wrote:

>> Backing up. I back up to Google. There are a couple of backup
>> programs available for OSX and the reason there are so few of them is
>> because it is generally only the paranoid computer user who doesn't
>> understand the power and stability of OSX who believes he must backup
>> his OS. Most paranoid computer users come from the world of
>> Microsoft, and rightly so, but many OS/2 users relied upon and needed
>> backups for their own OS/2 systems because of corruption or other
>> problematic problems. I can still recall many who said they had to
>> "reinstall OS/2 today from my backup ...".
>>
>> OSX is so solid that it is rare that you would ever find yourself in a
>> position have having to run a backup of your system. Ahh... but what
>> about the upcoming Time Machine in Leopard? Isn't that a backup
>> solution? Yes, yes it is and it is going to put the folks at
>> SuperDuper (the only viable backup software for OSX) out of business.
>> But Time Machine backs up each and every file so seamlessly and
>> quietly in the background to an external hard drive that primarily it
>> will never be used to reinstall a backup of the entire system.
>> Instead, it will be used to find a copy of that file you had ten
>> months ago, that you deleted and said you would never need again.
>> Oops! Ten months later you need that file. Open Time Machine and
>> jump back ten months and with CoverFlow you can peruse each of your
>> documents or icons directly, not just their names in a file listing,
>> but an icon of the exact program or file and any files associated with
>> the program or file.
>>
>> I know, I know - but what if my hard drive goes belly up and I need a
>> backup of my system? Well, Google gives you 2GIG plus storage space
>> for every Google email account so instead of filing off your backups
>> to a hard drive, just point it to your Google disk space and there it
>> is, ready for download and install when needed. Don't like Google?
>> Ok. Subscribe to Apple's Mac accounts and get your own email address
>> with a mac.com address. Along with that account you get a free
>> website as well as a gig of hard disk space and by the time Leopard is
>> released, Apple will most likely up that amount of space to 2 or even
>> 3 Gig or hard disk space. You can backup your OSX via iDisk. Very easy.

> I'm not going to respond to the rest, but I will respond to this. IMO, a
> business user is not going to want to depend on Google or any other
> service run by somebody else for backups: s/he wants backups on tape or
> other reliable medium locked in the safe and perhaps with additional
> copies in the safe at another company location as well. The fact that
> the Mac is (allegedly) more stable is irrelevant, especially in view of
> the abysmal lack of security: the machine can be padlocked to a desk,
> but if someone has access to it for just a few minutes, s/he can
> interrupt that boot sequence, get to the command-line prompt with
> root/administrator privileges and change passwords or delete accounts
> and create major havoc.


And then, as my son has pointed out, even apart from the sabotage
situation there is the possibility of user error, e.g., "Oops! That
wasn't the file I meant to delete" or "Quick! Somebody get me a roll of
paper towels; I spilled my coffee on my notebook."

Perce

Lee Riemenschneider wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 02:56:35 UTC, "Michael Baldwin, Bruce"
> wrote:
> > Lee Riemenschneider wrote:
> > > I like OS X better than previous incarnations of the Mac OS, but I
> > > still don't find it as user friendly as OS/2.
> >
> > You're joking right? 0S/2 is a heap of ****e.
> >
> You must be one of the idiots.

Nope. I don't use 0S/2.

> > > I would rather use a UNIX variant with X.
> >
> > OS X is a UNIX variant. 0S/2 is't.
> >
> Proof number one is a lack of reading comprehension.

On your part.

> > > Apple still rates third for OS choices in my book.
> >
> > Which places it far above 0S/2.
> >
> Proof number two might be an inability to read.

Might be?

> > > [Followups set to comp.os.os2.advocacy]
> > >
> > > (Don't berate me for the followup, because if we can no longer post to
> > > the proper news group, then we are saying that the idiots have won.
> > > This thread has nothing to do with OS/2 in the misc sense.)
> >
> > What is the misc sense?
> >
> Hmmm. Inability to read or an inability to understand how newsgroups
> work?

Is that right?