Xen : Virtual Machine Manager - OS2

This is a discussion on Xen : Virtual Machine Manager - OS2 ; Sir: I saw a reference to Xen and VM. So I went looking for it and found a Cambridge University site devoted to it. It suggest that one download an ISO image file and burn it to test it working ...

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  1. Xen : Virtual Machine Manager

    Sir:

    I saw a reference to Xen and VM. So I went looking for it and found a
    Cambridge University site devoted to it. It suggest that one download
    an ISO image file and burn it to test it working with Linux. Having
    broadband, I said why not. The link gave to me a Sourceforge site for
    downloading and I did. What can I say, it works.


    This is different than the virtual machine hosting tool that Serenity
    System has developed - SVISTA or VMware for that matter. This works by
    booting itself into ring zero and hosting guest operating systems at
    ring one. The current version requires the guest operating system to be
    modified. Future versions will not (version 3 will be out next month).

    The authors of Xen consider this to be more robust solution that other
    VM solutions that run in an operating system. What are the chances that
    this can be done with eCS?
    --
    Bill
    Thanks a Million!

  2. Re: Xen : Virtual Machine Manager

    On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:36:01 UTC, "William L. Hartzell"
    wrote:

    > I saw a reference to Xen and VM. So I went looking for it and found a
    > Cambridge University site devoted to it. It suggest that one download
    > an ISO image file and burn it to test it working with Linux. Having
    > broadband, I said why not. The link gave to me a Sourceforge site for
    > downloading and I did. What can I say, it works.
    >
    >
    > This is different than the virtual machine hosting tool that Serenity
    > System has developed - SVISTA or VMware for that matter. This works by
    > booting itself into ring zero and hosting guest operating systems at
    > ring one.


    Which exposes the basic design flaws in the x86 architecture (failure to
    trap essential instructions in rings 1-3, so that they can be properly
    virtualised).

    > The current version requires the guest operating system to be
    > modified.


    Due to the aforesaid flaws.

    > Future versions will not (version 3 will be out next month).


    I see nothing in the roadmap that says that. And I can't see how it is
    possible given the current x86 architectural flaws. I worked on this
    kind of stuff years ago, and there is no clean solution on the x86.

    > The authors of Xen consider this to be more robust solution that other
    > VM solutions that run in an operating system. What are the chances that
    > this can be done with eCS?


    Ask IBM to modify the kernel...
    --
    Bob Eager
    begin a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

  3. Re: Xen : Virtual Machine Manager

    William L. Hartzell wrote:

    > Sir:
    >
    > I saw a reference to Xen and VM. So I went looking for it and found a
    > Cambridge University site devoted to it. It suggest that one download
    > an ISO image file and burn it to test it working with Linux. Having
    > broadband, I said why not. The link gave to me a Sourceforge site for
    > downloading and I did. What can I say, it works.
    >
    >
    > This is different than the virtual machine hosting tool that Serenity
    > System has developed - SVISTA or VMware for that matter. This works
    > by booting itself into ring zero and hosting guest operating systems
    > at ring one. The current version requires the guest operating system
    > to be modified. Future versions will not (version 3 will be out next
    > month).
    >
    > The authors of Xen consider this to be more robust solution that other
    > VM solutions that run in an operating system. What are the chances
    > that this can be done with eCS?


    This kind of stuff will only get easier with Intel's Virtualization
    Technology, formerly code-named Vanderpool. This puts virtualization
    into the hardware (CPU and chipset).

    The fun is about to begin!

    The eCS Guy





  4. Re: Xen : Virtual Machine Manager

    Sir:

    Bob Eager wrote:
    > On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:36:01 UTC, "William L. Hartzell"
    > wrote:
    >
    >> I saw a reference to Xen and VM. So I went looking for it and
    >> found a Cambridge University site devoted to it. It suggest that
    >> one download an ISO image file and burn it to test it working with
    >> Linux. Having broadband, I said why not. The link gave to me a
    >> Sourceforge site for downloading and I did. What can I say, it
    >> works.
    >>
    >> This is different than the virtual machine hosting tool that
    >> Serenity System has developed - SVISTA or VMware for that matter.
    >> This works by booting itself into ring zero and hosting guest
    >> operating systems at ring one.

    >
    > Which exposes the basic design flaws in the x86 architecture (failure
    > to trap essential instructions in rings 1-3, so that they can be
    > properly virtualised).
    >
    >> The current version requires the guest operating system to be
    >> modified.

    >
    > Due to the aforesaid flaws.

    Both AMD and Intel are working on this. Have you check this out on
    their 64-bit processors? Is it still a problem?
    >> Future versions will not (version 3 will be out next month).

    >
    > I see nothing in the roadmap that says that. And I can't see how it
    > is possible given the current x86 architectural flaws. I worked on
    > this kind of stuff years ago, and there is no clean solution on the
    > x86.

    I downloaded several presentations and believe that was in one of them.
    >> The authors of Xen consider this to be more robust solution that
    >> other VM solutions that run in an operating system. What are the
    >> chances that this can be done with eCS?

    >
    > Ask IBM to modify the kernel...

    That is what I am here doing.... This is the eCS forum.
    --
    Bill
    Thanks a Million!

  5. Re: Xen : Virtual Machine Manager

    Sir:

    The eCS Guy wrote:
    > William L. Hartzell wrote:
    >
    >> Sir:
    >>
    >> I saw a reference to Xen and VM. So I went looking for it and found a
    >> Cambridge University site devoted to it. It suggest that one download
    >> an ISO image file and burn it to test it working with Linux. Having
    >> broadband, I said why not. The link gave to me a Sourceforge site for
    >> downloading and I did. What can I say, it works.
    >>
    >>
    >> This is different than the virtual machine hosting tool that Serenity
    >> System has developed - SVISTA or VMware for that matter. This works
    >> by booting itself into ring zero and hosting guest operating systems
    >> at ring one. The current version requires the guest operating system
    >> to be modified. Future versions will not (version 3 will be out next
    >> month).
    >>
    >> The authors of Xen consider this to be more robust solution that other
    >> VM solutions that run in an operating system. What are the chances
    >> that this can be done with eCS?

    >
    > This kind of stuff will only get easier with Intel's Virtualization
    > Technology, formerly code-named Vanderpool. This puts virtualization
    > into the hardware (CPU and chipset).
    >
    > The fun is about to begin!
    >
    > The eCS Guy
    >
    >
    >
    >

    Yes. The current generation of chips don't trap all instructions like
    Bob says. But there are ways to work around those problems, mentioned
    in the presentation 2004 that is in staroffice presentation format. The
    neat thing about this technology is the fact that it scales well into
    cluster configurations and handles load balancing at the operating
    system granular level.
    --
    Bill
    Thanks a Million!

  6. Re: Xen : Virtual Machine Manager

    Bob Eager wrote:
    > On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:36:01 UTC, "William L. Hartzell"
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I saw a reference to Xen and VM. So I went looking for it and found a
    >>Cambridge University site devoted to it. It suggest that one download
    >>an ISO image file and burn it to test it working with Linux. Having
    >>broadband, I said why not. The link gave to me a Sourceforge site for
    >>downloading and I did. What can I say, it works.
    >>
    >>
    >>This is different than the virtual machine hosting tool that Serenity
    >>System has developed - SVISTA or VMware for that matter. This works by
    >>booting itself into ring zero and hosting guest operating systems at
    >>ring one.

    >
    >
    > Which exposes the basic design flaws in the x86 architecture (failure to
    > trap essential instructions in rings 1-3, so that they can be properly
    > virtualised).


    I can imagine it perfectly, the future Intel processor tech ref: "You
    can use V86 mode, or the new, V386 mode..." ;-)

    Cheers,
    Martin


    >
    >
    >>The current version requires the guest operating system to be
    >>modified.

    >
    >
    > Due to the aforesaid flaws.
    >
    >
    >> Future versions will not (version 3 will be out next month).

    >
    >
    > I see nothing in the roadmap that says that. And I can't see how it is
    > possible given the current x86 architectural flaws. I worked on this
    > kind of stuff years ago, and there is no clean solution on the x86.
    >
    >
    >>The authors of Xen consider this to be more robust solution that other
    >>VM solutions that run in an operating system. What are the chances that
    >>this can be done with eCS?

    >
    >
    > Ask IBM to modify the kernel...


  7. Re: Xen : Virtual Machine Manager

    On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:38:03 UTC, MMI wrote:

    > I can imagine it perfectly, the future Intel processor tech ref: "You
    > can use V86 mode, or the new, V386 mode..." ;-)


    Exactly! It's needed that for a LONG time..
    --
    Bob Eager
    begin a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

  8. Re: Xen : Virtual Machine Manager

    Sir:

    MMI wrote:
    > Bob Eager wrote:
    >> On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:36:01 UTC, "William L. Hartzell"
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> I saw a reference to Xen and VM. So I went looking for it and found
    >>> a Cambridge University site devoted to it. It suggest that one
    >>> download an ISO image file and burn it to test it working with
    >>> Linux. Having broadband, I said why not. The link gave to me a
    >>> Sourceforge site for downloading and I did. What can I say, it works.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> This is different than the virtual machine hosting tool that Serenity
    >>> System has developed - SVISTA or VMware for that matter. This works
    >>> by booting itself into ring zero and hosting guest operating systems
    >>> at ring one.

    >>
    >>
    >> Which exposes the basic design flaws in the x86 architecture (failure to
    >> trap essential instructions in rings 1-3, so that they can be properly
    >> virtualised).

    >
    > I can imagine it perfectly, the future Intel processor tech ref: "You
    > can use V86 mode, or the new, V386 mode..." ;-)
    >

    From what I read, there is only one instruction that need guess
    operating system modification and they had the work-around patch
    available. It would be a simple search and replace for Scott.
    --
    Bill
    Thanks a Million!

  9. Re: Xen : Virtual Machine Manager

    On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:38:06 UTC, "William L. Hartzell"
    wrote:

    > From what I read, there is only one instruction that need guess
    > operating system modification and they had the work-around patch
    > available. It would be a simple search and replace for Scott.


    That would depend on what the guest operating system used. I can think
    of three instructions that don't work properly, even without going to
    look...VERR, VERW, MOV to CR0, ...

    --
    Bob Eager
    begin a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

  10. Re: Xen : Virtual Machine Manager

    Sir:

    William L. Hartzell wrote:
    > Sir:
    >
    > I saw a reference to Xen and VM. So I went looking for it and found a
    > Cambridge University site devoted to it. It suggest that one download
    > an ISO image file and burn it to test it working with Linux. Having
    > broadband, I said why not. The link gave to me a Sourceforge site for
    > downloading and I did. What can I say, it works.
    >
    >
    > This is different than the virtual machine hosting tool that Serenity
    > System has developed - SVISTA or VMware for that matter. This works by
    > booting itself into ring zero and hosting guest operating systems at
    > ring one. The current version requires the guest operating system to be
    > modified. Future versions will not (version 3 will be out next month).
    >
    > The authors of Xen consider this to be more robust solution that other
    > VM solutions that run in an operating system. What are the chances that
    > this can be done with eCS?

    An interesting article on this subject as appeared
    .
    --
    Bill
    Thanks a Million!

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