Oddities with CD-RWs - OS2

This is a discussion on Oddities with CD-RWs - OS2 ; I almost exclusively use CD-RWs and every once in a while I run into some oddities, when I want to overwrite the content of a disk with usually an updated image. Frequently Fast Blanking in the CD-R/W-Tools from Chris W's ...

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Thread: Oddities with CD-RWs

  1. Oddities with CD-RWs

    I almost exclusively use CD-RWs and every once in a while I run into some
    oddities, when I want to overwrite the content of a disk with usually an
    updated image.

    Frequently Fast Blanking in the CD-R/W-Tools from Chris W's great front end
    A/D-CD Creator works just fine, but every so often when it comes to burning
    the new image on such a prepared disk, the burn process aborts with an error
    after, frequently within the first few minutes.
    The CD in such a case then only can be rewritten successfully, after
    performing a blank 'All'.

    The other day I had even a new one. After Fast Blanking the CD got burned
    successful, according to the log, but there then was nothing on it but the new
    volume name.
    In a subsequent burn trial w/o previous re-blanking, it even showed still more
    free space available than the 733MB (decimal) required for the image. However,
    after indicating that close to some 20% were written, burning eventually
    aborted with an error message as well.

    A repeated Fast Blank wasn't able to resolve the problem and after playing
    this game 3 times, finally I had here as well to perform a blank All' in order
    to successfully burn the updated image on that disk.

    So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
    CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
    and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
    these cases?

  2. Re: Oddities with CD-RWs

    On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:54:06 UTC, Wolfi
    wrote:

    > I almost exclusively use CD-RWs and every once in a while I run into some
    > oddities, when I want to overwrite the content of a disk with usually an
    > updated image.
    >
    > Frequently Fast Blanking in the CD-R/W-Tools from Chris W's great front end
    > A/D-CD Creator works just fine, but every so often when it comes to burning
    > the new image on such a prepared disk, the burn process aborts with an error
    > after, frequently within the first few minutes.
    > The CD in such a case then only can be rewritten successfully, after
    > performing a blank 'All'.
    >
    > The other day I had even a new one. After Fast Blanking the CD got burned
    > successful, according to the log, but there then was nothing on it but the new
    > volume name.
    > In a subsequent burn trial w/o previous re-blanking, it even showed still more
    > free space available than the 733MB (decimal) required for the image. However,
    > after indicating that close to some 20% were written, burning eventually
    > aborted with an error message as well.
    >
    > A repeated Fast Blank wasn't able to resolve the problem and after playing
    > this game 3 times, finally I had here as well to perform a blank All' in order
    > to successfully burn the updated image on that disk.
    >
    > So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
    > CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
    > and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
    > these cases?


    Try going to:

    > http://www.howstuffworks.com/


    and search on CD-RW. You should get a number of articles that explain
    how they work. After wading through that stuff, you will wonder why
    you don't need to do an erase all, every time, but one in ten seems to
    be adequate.

    Hope this helps...
    --
    From the eComStation 1.2 of Doug Bissett
    dougb007 at telus dot net
    (Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)


  3. Re: Oddities with CD-RWs

    Am 23.07.07 18.28 schrieb Doug Bissett:
    > On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:54:06 UTC, Wolfi
    > wrote:


    >> So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
    >> CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
    >> and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
    >> these cases?

    >
    > Try going to:
    >
    >> http://www.howstuffworks.com/

    >
    > and search on CD-RW. You should get a number of articles that explain
    > how they work. After wading through that stuff, you will wonder why
    > you don't need to do an erase all, every time, but one in ten seems to
    > be adequate.
    >

    Thanks for that pointer.
    Even though there was some quite interesting reading, I didn't actually find
    there an article specifically dealing with fast and all/full blanking of a
    re-writable meadium.

  4. Re: Oddities with CD-RWs

    On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:51:44 UTC, Wolfi wrote:

    > Am 23.07.07 18.28 schrieb Doug Bissett:
    > > On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:54:06 UTC, Wolfi
    > > wrote:

    >
    > >> So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
    > >> CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
    > >> and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
    > >> these cases?

    > >
    > > Try going to:
    > >
    > >> http://www.howstuffworks.com/

    > >
    > > and search on CD-RW. You should get a number of articles that explain
    > > how they work. After wading through that stuff, you will wonder why
    > > you don't need to do an erase all, every time, but one in ten seems to
    > > be adequate.
    > >

    > Thanks for that pointer.
    > Even though there was some quite interesting reading, I didn't actually find
    > there an article specifically dealing with fast and all/full blanking of a
    > re-writable meadium.


    I think it is actually there, but may be called something else, and
    you need to read between the lines to figure it out. Effectively, full
    blanking clears the bits on all tracks, while fast blanking only
    clears the bits on tracks where the disk information is stored
    (effectively, it blanks the directory area only), leaving it up to the
    next write to flip the bits for the rest of it. After a number of
    writes, some of those bits may not get completely flipped, so a full
    erase is needed to get them reset. Eventually, even a full erase will
    fail to get the bits reset, and then you need to replace the CD.

    Hope this helps...
    --
    From the eComStation 1.2 of Doug Bissett
    dougb007 at telus dot net
    (Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)


  5. Re: Oddities with CD-RWs

    Am 06.08.07 18.26 schrieb Doug Bissett:
    > On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:51:44 UTC, Wolfi wrote:
    >
    >> Am 23.07.07 18.28 schrieb Doug Bissett:
    >>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:54:06 UTC, Wolfi
    >>> wrote:
    >>>> So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
    >>>> CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
    >>>> and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
    >>>> these cases?
    >>> Try going to:
    >>>
    >>>> http://www.howstuffworks.com/
    >>> and search on CD-RW. You should get a number of articles that explain
    >>> how they work. After wading through that stuff, you will wonder why
    >>> you don't need to do an erase all, every time, but one in ten seems to
    >>> be adequate.
    >>>

    >> Thanks for that pointer.
    >> Even though there was some quite interesting reading, I didn't actually find
    >> there an article specifically dealing with fast and all/full blanking of a
    >> re-writeable medium.

    >
    > I think it is actually there, but may be called something else, and
    > you need to read between the lines to figure it out. Effectively, full
    > blanking clears the bits on all tracks, while fast blanking only
    > clears the bits on tracks where the disk information is stored
    > (effectively, it blanks the directory area only), leaving it up to the
    > next write to flip the bits for the rest of it. After a number of
    > writes, some of those bits may not get completely flipped, so a full
    > erase is needed to get them reset. Eventually, even a full erase will
    > fail to get the bits reset, and then you need to replace the CD.
    >

    Thank you. What you just summed up so nicely, is pretty much what in the
    meantime I also found on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-RW.

    It also was quite surprising for me to learn, that the phase changes of CD-RWs
    are supposed to be less long term stable than the life expectancy of the
    organic dye of regular CD-Rs. I alsways believed it to be the other way around.

  6. Re: Oddities with CD-RWs

    On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:47:33 UTC, Wolfi wrote:

    > Am 06.08.07 18.26 schrieb Doug Bissett:
    > > On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:51:44 UTC, Wolfi wrote:
    > >
    > >> Am 23.07.07 18.28 schrieb Doug Bissett:
    > >>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:54:06 UTC, Wolfi
    > >>> wrote:
    > >>>> So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
    > >>>> CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
    > >>>> and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
    > >>>> these cases?
    > >>> Try going to:
    > >>>
    > >>>> http://www.howstuffworks.com/
    > >>> and search on CD-RW. You should get a number of articles that explain
    > >>> how they work. After wading through that stuff, you will wonder why
    > >>> you don't need to do an erase all, every time, but one in ten seems to
    > >>> be adequate.
    > >>>
    > >> Thanks for that pointer.
    > >> Even though there was some quite interesting reading, I didn't actually find
    > >> there an article specifically dealing with fast and all/full blanking of a
    > >> re-writeable medium.

    > >
    > > I think it is actually there, but may be called something else, and
    > > you need to read between the lines to figure it out. Effectively, full
    > > blanking clears the bits on all tracks, while fast blanking only
    > > clears the bits on tracks where the disk information is stored
    > > (effectively, it blanks the directory area only), leaving it up to the
    > > next write to flip the bits for the rest of it. After a number of
    > > writes, some of those bits may not get completely flipped, so a full
    > > erase is needed to get them reset. Eventually, even a full erase will
    > > fail to get the bits reset, and then you need to replace the CD.
    > >

    > Thank you. What you just summed up so nicely, is pretty much what in the
    > meantime I also found on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-RW.
    >
    > It also was quite surprising for me to learn, that the phase changes of CD-RWs
    > are supposed to be less long term stable than the life expectancy of the
    > organic dye of regular CD-Rs. I alsways believed it to be the other way around.


    It is also possible (quite likely) that exposing a CD-RW to the sun,
    will flip bits on you. After all, the sun is really very much like a
    laser. RW media is designed to allow changes, due to light (laser)
    activity, so, of course, they are more prone to changing, even with
    relatively low levels of light. CD-R is meant to be permanent, and
    they are, relatively, permanent, but sunlight can also damage them.
    The commercial (pressed) CDs are less likely to be damaged by light,
    but direct sunlight causes heat, and that can damage them.

    --
    From the eComStation 1.2 of Doug Bissett
    dougb007 at telus dot net
    (Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)


  7. Re: Oddities with CD-RWs

    Am 07.08.07 15.12 schrieb Doug Bissett:
    > On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:47:33 UTC, Wolfi wrote:
    >
    >> Am 06.08.07 18.26 schrieb Doug Bissett:
    >>> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:51:44 UTC, Wolfi wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Am 23.07.07 18.28 schrieb Doug Bissett:
    >>>>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:54:06 UTC, Wolfi
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>> So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
    >>>>>> CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
    >>>>>> and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
    >>>>>> these cases?
    >>>>> Try going to:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> http://www.howstuffworks.com/
    >>>>> and search on CD-RW. You should get a number of articles that explain
    >>>>> how they work. After wading through that stuff, you will wonder why
    >>>>> you don't need to do an erase all, every time, but one in ten seems to
    >>>>> be adequate.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Thanks for that pointer.
    >>>> Even though there was some quite interesting reading, I didn't actually find
    >>>> there an article specifically dealing with fast and all/full blanking of a
    >>>> re-writeable medium.
    >>> I think it is actually there, but may be called something else, and
    >>> you need to read between the lines to figure it out. Effectively, full
    >>> blanking clears the bits on all tracks, while fast blanking only
    >>> clears the bits on tracks where the disk information is stored
    >>> (effectively, it blanks the directory area only), leaving it up to the
    >>> next write to flip the bits for the rest of it. After a number of
    >>> writes, some of those bits may not get completely flipped, so a full
    >>> erase is needed to get them reset. Eventually, even a full erase will
    >>> fail to get the bits reset, and then you need to replace the CD.
    >>>

    >> Thank you. What you just summed up so nicely, is pretty much what in the
    >> meantime I also found on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-RW.
    >>
    >> It also was quite surprising for me to learn, that the phase changes of CD-RWs
    >> are supposed to be less long term stable than the life expectancy of the
    >> organic dye of regular CD-Rs. I always believed it to be the other way around.

    >
    > It is also possible (quite likely) that exposing a CD-RW to the sun,
    > will flip bits on you. After all, the sun is really very much like a
    > laser. RW media is designed to allow changes, due to light (laser)
    > activity, so, of course, they are more prone to changing, even with
    > relatively low levels of light.


    But judging from those articles, the temperature range needed to change
    between crystalline and amorphous is some 200-600C.

    > CD-R is meant to be permanent, and
    > they are, relatively, permanent, but sunlight can also damage them.
    > The commercial (pressed) CDs are less likely to be damaged by light,
    > but direct sunlight causes heat, and that can damage them.


    I always considered the organic dye to be much more sensitive to be altered
    by unwanted heat (car) and (UV-)sunlight exposure than the metal layer of
    re-writeables.

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