Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages - OS2

This is a discussion on Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages - OS2 ; On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:21:15 UTC, ariek@attglobal3.14159265358979323846.net (Arie Kazachin) opined: > Hello, > > I have two versions of Mozilla installed on my old WARP3 (FP-40) > system with Hebrew NLV: pre-release build 2002121033 and version 1.4. > > ...

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Thread: Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

  1. Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

    On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:21:15 UTC,
    ariek@attglobal3.14159265358979323846.net (Arie Kazachin) opined:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I have two versions of Mozilla installed on my old WARP3 (FP-40)
    > system with Hebrew NLV: pre-release build 2002121033 and version 1.4.
    >
    > When visiting web pages in Hebrew, the pre-release version shows Hebrew
    > letters but in the wrong order - from left to right while the 1.4
    > version doesn't show any Hebrew letters - they're shown all as underscore
    > "_" characters line. I think I made the language/characters encoding
    > settings identical in both versions so I can't understand - what else
    > can affect this browser to show or not Hebrew letters of a web page?
    >
    > Did I forgot any setting?
    >
    > Should I download and install other fonts?
    >
    > Should I hack some file? Maybe to copy some file from
    > the pre-release installation directories tree to the 1.4 tree?
    >
    > Any other ideas?


    I used to see this (correct characters, wrong order) in Warp3, but
    that was with the current Netscape of the time. Then there was a fix
    for this, published as a file called BIDI.DLL (I think/suppose it was
    a DLL), that made a pull-down-menu item that would switch the order.

    I have not seen the same behavior with any release of Mozilla or
    Firefox, but that may be because I am not visiting the same sites as
    you. Please tell me what site acts this way, so we can compare how it
    acts here.

    I am using a plain-vanilla version of eCS (no specific Hebrew
    support); I have always used plain US versions, and have been
    surprised, certainly since Warp v4, at what one can do in Hebrew. The
    point is that anything that my US versions can do with Hebrew ought to
    be doable for a Hebrew-specific version. But of course you are using
    Warp3, which probably can't do its part in supporting right-to-left
    languages. Spring for eCS v1.2.

    --
    Stan Goodman
    Qiryat Tiv'on
    Israel


  2. Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

    In message - "Stan Goodman"
    writes:

    Hi Stan, thanks for the response.

    >I used to see this (correct characters, wrong order) in Warp3, but
    >that was with the current Netscape of the time. Then there was a fix
    >for this, published as a file called BIDI.DLL (I think/suppose it was
    >a DLL), that made a pull-down-menu item that would switch the order.


    OK, now I have something to start "googling" for...

    To save me time, any pointers to this fix?

    >
    >I have not seen the same behavior with any release of Mozilla or
    >Firefox, but that may be because I am not visiting the same sites as
    >you. Please tell me what site acts this way, so we can compare how it
    >acts here.


    The page is an Israeli SCUBA diving forum:

    http://www.tapuz.co.il/tapuzforum/ma....asp?forum=216

    As usual, "best viewed with MS IE ...".


    >
    >I am using a plain-vanilla version of eCS (no specific Hebrew
    >support); I have always used plain US versions, and have been
    >surprised, certainly since Warp v4, at what one can do in Hebrew. The
    >point is that anything that my US versions can do with Hebrew ought to
    >be doable for a Hebrew-specific version. But of course you are using
    >Warp3, which probably can't do its part in supporting right-to-left
    >languages. Spring for eCS v1.2.
    >


    Yes, I'm planning this when I'll find time for a new PC research (my current
    one is 11 years old, still mostly operationsl except few "sclerotic" RAM
    addresses which cause "trap E" once in a long while). Between work, diving
    and underwater photography it's difficult to find time defining a new PC.
    So far I settled on AMD 64 X2 with eCS and LINUX but there are lots
    of "devil in the details" considerations about which I haven't even started
    asking questions. Hope to start this research in few weeks time when
    some current urgent issues will be settled.

    Thanks,
    ************************************************** ****************************
    * Arie Kazachin, Israel, e-mail: ariek@attglobal3.14159265358979323846.net *
    ************************************************** ****************************
    NOTE: before replying, leave only letters in my domain-name. Sorry, SPAM trap.


  3. Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

    On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 14:00:52 UTC,
    ariek@attglobal3.14159265358979323846.net (Arie Kazachin) opined:
    > In message - "Stan Goodman"
    > writes:
    >
    > Hi Stan, thanks for the response.
    >
    > >I used to see this (correct characters, wrong order) in Warp3, but
    > >that was with the current Netscape of the time. Then there was a fix
    > >for this, published as a file called BIDI.DLL (I think/suppose it was
    > >a DLL), that made a pull-down-menu item that would switch the order.

    >
    > OK, now I have something to start "googling" for...
    >
    > To save me time, any pointers to this fix?


    No. Sorry. It's a long time ago, and much has happened in the
    meantime.

    > >I have not seen the same behavior with any release of Mozilla or
    > >Firefox, but that may be because I am not visiting the same sites as
    > >you. Please tell me what site acts this way, so we can compare how it
    > >acts here.

    >
    > The page is an Israeli SCUBA diving forum:
    >
    > http://www.tapuz.co.il/tapuzforum/ma....asp?forum=216
    >
    > As usual, "best viewed with MS IE ...".


    ....and as usual, it is "quite well viewed with Mozilla Firefox" (I
    sometimes wonder if web designers have any idea what those little
    "Best viewed..." GIFs are for). The order of the characters is exactly
    what it should be. I suspect that the operating system is responsible
    for this, not the browser, but I don't know that. The BIDI file was
    just a patch for compensating for an OS that hadn't learned to do that
    yet.

    While writing this, I remembered that not long ago I had seen in the
    list of Firefox extensions one that is meant to solve your problem. I
    didn't download it, because for quite a while Hebrew has been coming
    up properly in FF. I just looked for it now, and see that its name is
    "BIDI Browser UI". Try it. But when you move up to Warp4 or eCS, you
    won't need it.

    > >I am using a plain-vanilla version of eCS (no specific Hebrew
    > >support); I have always used plain US versions, and have been
    > >surprised, certainly since Warp v4, at what one can do in Hebrew. The
    > >point is that anything that my US versions can do with Hebrew ought to
    > >be doable for a Hebrew-specific version. But of course you are using
    > >Warp3, which probably can't do its part in supporting right-to-left
    > >languages. Spring for eCS v1.2.
    > >

    >
    > Yes, I'm planning this when I'll find time for a new PC research (my current
    > one is 11 years old, still mostly operationsl except few "sclerotic" RAM
    > addresses which cause "trap E" once in a long while). Between work, diving
    > and underwater photography it's difficult to find time defining a new PC.
    > So far I settled on AMD 64 X2 with eCS and LINUX but there are lots
    > of "devil in the details" considerations about which I haven't even started
    > asking questions. Hope to start this research in few weeks time when
    > some current urgent issues will be settled.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > ************************************************** ****************************
    > * Arie Kazachin, Israel, e-mail: ariek@attglobal3.14159265358979323846.net *
    > ************************************************** ****************************
    > NOTE: before replying, leave only letters in my domain-name. Sorry, SPAM trap.
    >


    --
    Stan Goodman
    Qiryat Tiv'on
    Israel


  4. Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

    In message - "Stan Goodman"
    writes:
    >




    >While writing this, I remembered that not long ago I had seen in the
    >list of Firefox extensions one that is meant to solve your problem. I
    >didn't download it, because for quite a while Hebrew has been coming
    >up properly in FF. I just looked for it now, and see that its name is
    >"BIDI Browser UI". Try it. But when you move up to Warp4 or eCS, you
    >won't need it.
    >


    Thanks Stan, that's probably what I need. I downloaded the 8K file

    bidi_ui-0.3.7-fx+mz.xpi

    and now I have a procedural question: what is the "offline installation"
    procedure for *.xpi types of files? Reading the instruction at the site
    I understand clicking on this files link should start an installation
    process but I guess it requires something I don't have in my old system.

    TIA,
    ************************************************** ****************************
    * Arie Kazachin, Israel, e-mail: ariek@attglobal3.14159265358979323846.net *
    ************************************************** ****************************
    NOTE: before replying, leave only letters in my domain-name. Sorry, SPAM trap.



  5. Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

    On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 22:14:14 UTC,
    ariek@attglobal3.14159265358979323846.net (Arie Kazachin) opined:
    > In message - "Stan Goodman"
    > writes:
    > >

    >
    >
    >
    > >While writing this, I remembered that not long ago I had seen in the
    > >list of Firefox extensions one that is meant to solve your problem. I
    > >didn't download it, because for quite a while Hebrew has been coming
    > >up properly in FF. I just looked for it now, and see that its name is
    > >"BIDI Browser UI". Try it. But when you move up to Warp4 or eCS, you
    > >won't need it.
    > >

    >
    > Thanks Stan, that's probably what I need. I downloaded the 8K file
    >
    > bidi_ui-0.3.7-fx+mz.xpi
    >
    > and now I have a procedural question: what is the "offline installation"
    > procedure for *.xpi types of files? Reading the instruction at the site
    > I understand clicking on this files link should start an installation
    > process but I guess it requires something I don't have in my old system.
    >
    > TIA,


    Why are you installing offline? Isn't there a button for installing it
    directly instead of downloading?

    If you want to install a downloaded xpi file, you only have to drag it
    to the main Firefox window and drop it.

    --
    Stan Goodman
    Qiryat Tiv'on
    Israel
    "The intifada did not start because of Sharon's visit, [but] to put an
    end to occupation and because the Palestinians did not approve of the
    peace process in its previous form." -- Marwan Bargouti,
    Secretary-General of Fatah in Judea and Samaria (now serving five life
    terms for murdering Israelis), June 2001

  6. Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

    In message - "Stan Goodman"
    06 Jan 2006 21:09:09 GMT writes:



    >
    >Why are you installing offline? Isn't there a button for installing it
    >directly instead of downloading?
    >
    >If you want to install a downloaded xpi file, you only have to drag it
    >to the main Firefox window and drop it.
    >
    >--


    With Mozilla it doesn't work: while online clicking on the link
    of that file didn't open the download dialog (I understand from the help
    that what should've happen, right?) and offline dragging it onto the
    Mozilla didn't do anything. Also this file extension has no
    associations. While writing this post it occured to me to peek inside
    the file with binary viewer. The first two bytes were the "PK" signature
    so as experiment I copied the file with a ZIP extention and it appears to be
    of a legal ZIP format with contents:

    chrome/bidiext.jar
    suite/bidiext.jar
    install.rdf
    install.js

    I guess I just need to run the "install.js", right?

    TIA,
    ************************************************** ****************************
    * Arie Kazachin, Israel, e-mail: ariek@attglobal3.14159265358979323846.net *
    ************************************************** ****************************
    NOTE: before replying, leave only letters in my domain-name. Sorry, SPAM trap.


  7. Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

    On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 21:29:53 UTC,
    ariek@attglobal3.14159265358979323846.net (Arie Kazachin) opined:
    > In message - "Stan Goodman"
    > 06 Jan 2006 21:09:09 GMT writes:
    > >
    > >Why are you installing offline? Isn't there a button for installing it
    > >directly instead of downloading?
    > >
    > >If you want to install a downloaded xpi file, you only have to drag it
    > >to the main Firefox window and drop it.
    > >
    > >--

    >
    > With Mozilla it doesn't work: while online clicking on the link
    > of that file didn't open the download dialog (I understand from the help
    > that what should've happen, right?) and offline dragging it onto the
    > Mozilla didn't do anything. Also this file extension has no
    > associations. While writing this post it occured to me to peek inside
    > the file with binary viewer. The first two bytes were the "PK" signature
    > so as experiment I copied the file with a ZIP extention and it appears to be
    > of a legal ZIP format with contents:
    >
    > chrome/bidiext.jar
    > suite/bidiext.jar
    > install.rdf
    > install.js
    >
    > I guess I just need to run the "install.js", right?


    Probably not; install.js doesn't sound like an executable. I just
    looked at the thing's blurb in the Extensions list, and see that
    people say it is quirky with FF v1.5. It is advertised for v1.x, so
    that isn't a surprise, although some of them say that there is a
    questionable workaround for v1.5. I don't remember what FF you're
    using; if it's v1.5, perhaps that's the reason.

    I have never used this extension, because I haven't needed it, so I
    know nothing at all about it. As I've said, eCS seems to know by
    itself what to do with a font in a right-to-left language, and that
    means that probably Warp v4.52 does too. You would save yourself some
    grief if you would exploit the abilities that a later OS has, instead
    of trying to coerce an older one to do something it doesn't know how
    to do. That would be good advice for the guys who wrote to the
    extension's author, complaining that it won't work with FF v1.5. Warp3
    is really very old now and should be put out to stud (or pasture,
    anyway), since you, like me, need to read right-to-left pages.

    --
    Stan Goodman
    Qiryat Tiv'on
    Israel

    "The intifada did not start because of Sharon's visit, [but] to put an
    end to occupation and because the Palestinians did not approve of the
    peace process in its previous form." -- Marwan Barghouti,
    Secretary-General of Fatah in Judea and Samaria (now serving five life
    terms for murdering Israelis), June 2001

  8. Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

    In message - "Stan Goodman"
    writes:



    >xtension's author, complaining that it won't work with FF v1.5. Warp3
    >anyway), since you, like me, need to read right-to-left pages.
    >


    Thanks for advices Stan. I'm thinking about installing eCS when I'll
    build a new PC.

    Slightly off-topic: I currently have VAC++ 3.0 installed and few simple
    programs are written or in the process of writing. How painful (or not)
    would it be moving VAC++ with few projects from WARP3 to eCS?

    TIA,
    ************************************************** ****************************
    * Arie Kazachin, Israel, e-mail: ariek@attglobal3.14159265358979323846.net *
    ************************************************** ****************************
    NOTE: before replying, leave only letters in my domain-name. Sorry, SPAM trap.


  9. Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

    Sir:

    Arie Kazachin wrote:
    > In message - "Stan Goodman"
    > writes:
    >
    >
    >
    >> xtension's author, complaining that it won't work with FF v1.5. Warp3
    >> anyway), since you, like me, need to read right-to-left pages.
    >>

    >
    > Thanks for advices Stan. I'm thinking about installing eCS when I'll
    > build a new PC.
    >
    > Slightly off-topic: I currently have VAC++ 3.0 installed and few simple
    > programs are written or in the process of writing. How painful (or not)
    > would it be moving VAC++ with few projects from WARP3 to eCS?
    >
    >

    This should be little to no problem. Link with the headers and libs of
    eCS (tk provided) and fix a few minor incompatibilities, and go.

    PS. Buy Warp 4 (just need the proof of purchase page from the 'Up and
    Running' book, the one that looks like a 3.5" floppy) from eBay as eCS
    requires a previous license (as an upgrade) or much higher fee for a
    legal license (no checks preformed).
    --
    Bill
    Thanks a Million!

  10. Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

    On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:54:33 UTC,
    ariek@attglobal3.14159265358979323846.net (Arie Kazachin) wrote:

    > Slightly off-topic: I currently have VAC++ 3.0 installed and few simple
    > programs are written or in the process of writing. How painful (or not)
    > would it be moving VAC++ with few projects from WARP3 to eCS?


    You'll do the same I've done as I changed from WARP3 to WARP4 and then
    again to eCS:

    1. Install the system
    2. install VAC++
    and edit config.sys in a way that any entry the VAC installer
    had put in front of libpath, path, help.....
    gents changed to be at the tail of them.
    The SOM that gets installed with VAC3++ was at
    the time VAC3 was new more current than WARP
    but not it is really outdated. So it is important
    to check the whole config.sys and change the order
    of each entry in each statement that accesses VAC
    to be in the tail of it.
    3. install the last fixes for VAC++

    --
    Tschau/Bye
    Herbert

    Visit http://www.ecomstation.de the home of german eComStation
    eComStation 1.2 Deutsch ist da!

  11. Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

    >>Slightly off-topic: I currently have VAC++ 3.0 installed and few simple
    >>programs are written or in the process of writing. How painful (or not)
    >>would it be moving VAC++ with few projects from WARP3 to eCS?

    >
    > You'll do the same I've done as I changed from WARP3 to WARP4 and then
    > again to eCS:
    >
    > 1. Install the system
    > 2. install VAC++
    > and edit config.sys in a way that any entry the VAC installer
    > had put in front of libpath, path, help.....
    > gents changed to be at the tail of them.
    > The SOM that gets installed with VAC3++ was at
    > the time VAC3 was new more current than WARP
    > but not it is really outdated. So it is important
    > to check the whole config.sys and change the order
    > of each entry in each statement that accesses VAC
    > to be in the tail of it.
    > 3. install the last fixes for VAC++


    Yes, this works.

    I have two additional points:

    1. Don't install the OS/2 toolkit 3 that ships with the VAC++ 3.0.
    Just install the core development system. On the eCS CD (2 I guess)
    you will find the new, much more recent OS/2 toolkit 4.52.
    There is also somewhere a readme that tells you how to use
    it with VAC++ 3.0. Don't remember where it exactly it is but
    I guess it's in the toolkit setup directory.
    The new toolkit works fine here and you're then able to
    easily use also the new Warp 4.5 APIs (like DosOpenL, ...).

    2. Before installing the fixes, you should move all VAC++ project
    folders (the WPS class instances!!) into an other folder that
    does not open on startup. Otherwise the installer of the fixes
    will complain about locked files (the WPS class for the project
    folder) and does not finish.
    Then reboot.

    When all fixes are installed, you can move the project folders back.

  12. Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

    In message <43c2de13$0$20789$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net> - Heiko
    Nitzsche writes:
    >


    Thanks for all the tips, I saved them and hope to use them when the "new PC"
    project will find its time slot (with work, diving, photographing).

    ************************************************** ****************************
    * Arie Kazachin, Israel, e-mail: ariek@attglobal3.14159265358979323846.net *
    ************************************************** ****************************
    NOTE: before replying, leave only letters in my domain-name. Sorry, SPAM trap.


  13. Re: Mozilla versions and Hebrew pages

    On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:09:15 UTC,
    ariek@attglobal3.14159265358979323846.net (Arie Kazachin) opined:
    > In message <43c2de13$0$20789$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net> - Heiko
    > Nitzsche writes:
    > >

    >
    > Thanks for all the tips, I saved them and hope to use them when the "new PC"
    > project will find its time slot (with work, diving, photographing).


    Arieh...

    This page may be of help to you:


    It's about using Netscape, under Windows of course, but since your
    problem is related to an aged OS, perhaps it isn't too far off.

    --
    Stan Goodman
    Qiryat Tiv'on
    Israel

    "The intifada did not start because of Sharon's visit, [but] to put an
    end to occupation and because the Palestinians did not approve of the
    peace process in its previous form." -- Marwan Barghouti,
    Secretary-General of Fatah in Judea and Samaria (now serving five life
    terms for murdering Israelis), June 2001

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