On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:14:50 UTC, "Stan Goodman"
wrote:

> There is an OS/2 group in the UK? Lucky Albion!

Mainly a mailing list. I run it. For anyone interested:

os2-uk-request (at) os2 (dot) org (dot) uk

Send a message with 'subscribe' in the subject line.
--
Bob Eager

Hi Stan

Stan Goodman wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:46:22 UTC, Peter Brown
> opined:
>> Hi Stan
>>
>> Stan Goodman wrote:
>>> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:11:56 UTC, Paul Ratcliffe
>>> opined:
>>>> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 08:22:51 -0800, David T. Johnson
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> All that would be needed would be simple video capture and
>>>>> digitilization. EmperoarTV will do that on OS/2. The bigger problem
>>>>> might be finding equipment to play the tape and output the video to the
>>>>> computer so that it can be captured, especially if it is in a
>>>>> little-used format like 8mm, Beta, or VHS-C.
>>>> I believe the OP said it was VHS. I can't really believe it would be anything
>>>> else.
>>>>
>>>> Much more to the point is what format the recording is in. Is it so called
>>>> PAL (625/50) or so called NTSC (525/60)?
>>>
>>> The TV standard in Israel is PAL, and that is what the tape is.
>>>
>>> Sorry I neglected to say that. When I posted, I first looked at the
>>> box and the cassette to see what standards are called out, but there
>>> is no mention of any at all. Never having had any contact at all with
>>> tapes, I assumed it must be self-evident. Now a Google search assures
>>> me that the tape standard here is PAL.
>>>
>>> Do I understand correctly that there is a move to multiplicate the
>>> tape on DVD? I'm all for that. I would want a copy for myself.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I don't mind having a go at putting this tape onto dvd and possibly
>> using FFmpeg or similar to convert into mpg/avi/wmv
>>
>> However, you are in Israel and I'm in the UK; might be worth me checking
>> for a local copy with the OS2-UK group before discussing postage etc.
>
> There is an OS/2 group in the UK? Lucky Albion! Here OS/2 faded into
> the mists of history years ago. When I tell my ISP "OS/2", the two
> possible replies are: 1) "What's that?", and 2) "You mean Mac?". The
> telephone company, on the other hand, has only one answer: "Which
> Windows is that?"
>


I think the responses are about the same worldwide regarding mention of
OS/2...


> The postage for a single disk from here to Hingland can not be an
> impressive sum. If it comes to that, It's rather more efficient for me
> to pay it myself rather than waste time looking for the UK group and
> negotiating a postage deal. I've already said that I would like a copy
> of the resulting movie; I'd feel adequately rewarded.
>


Feel free to send me an email - remove the "SPAM-ME-NOT" bit though.

Regards

Pete

On Dec 5, 3:14 pm, "Stan Goodman" wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:46:22 UTC, Peter Brown
> opined:
>
>
>
> > Hi Stan
>
> > Stan Goodman wrote:
> > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:11:56 UTC, Paul Ratcliffe
> > > opined:
> > >> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 08:22:51 -0800, David T. Johnson
> > >> wrote:
>
> > >>> All that would be needed would be simple video capture and
> > >>> digitilization. EmperoarTV will do that on OS/2. The bigger problem
> > >>> might be finding equipment to play the tape and output the video to the
> > >>> computer so that it can be captured, especially if it is in a
> > >>> little-used format like 8mm, Beta, or VHS-C.
> > >> I believe the OP said it was VHS. I can't really believe it would be anything
> > >> else.
>
> > >> Much more to the point is what format the recording is in. Is it so called
> > >> PAL (625/50) or so called NTSC (525/60)?
>
> > > The TV standard in Israel is PAL, and that is what the tape is.
>
> > > Sorry I neglected to say that. When I posted, I first looked at the
> > > box and the cassette to see what standards are called out, but there
> > > is no mention of any at all. Never having had any contact at all with
> > > tapes, I assumed it must be self-evident. Now a Google search assures
> > > me that the tape standard here is PAL.
>
> > > Do I understand correctly that there is a move to multiplicate the
> > > tape on DVD? I'm all for that. I would want a copy for myself.
>
> > I don't mind having a go at putting this tape onto dvd and possibly
> > using FFmpeg or similar to convert into mpg/avi/wmv
>
> > However, you are in Israel and I'm in the UK; might be worth me checking
> > for a local copy with the OS2-UK group before discussing postage etc.
>
> There is an OS/2 group in the UK? Lucky Albion! Here OS/2 faded into
> the mists of history years ago. When I tell my ISP "OS/2", the two
> possible replies are: 1) "What's that?", and 2) "You mean Mac?". The
> telephone company, on the other hand, has only one answer: "Which
> Windows is that?"
>
> The postage for a single disk from here to Hingland can not be an
> impressive sum. If it comes to that, It's rather more efficient for me
> to pay it myself rather than waste time looking for the UK group and
> negotiating a postage deal. I've already said that I would like a copy
> of the resulting movie; I'd feel adequately rewarded.
>
> --
> Stan Goodman
> Qiryat Tiv'on
> Israel

LOL! I am so sorry.

Tim...

Sir:

Dave Yeo wrote:
> On 12/04/07 09:19 pm, William L. Hartzell wrote:
>> Sir:
>>
>> Peter Brown wrote:
>>> Hi Rich
>>>
>>> Rich Wonneberger wrote:
>>>> What we need is someone to make a movie video out of this.
>>>>
>>>> Rich W.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not that up on making a "movie video" myself...
>>>
>>> I do have a bit of hardware that I suspect would be potentially useful:
>>> a dvd/vcr combo recorder. It is very capable of turning vhs tapes into
>>> dvd recordings.
>>>
>>> Having created a "dvd version" I guess I then need some software to
>>> convert dvd into mpg/avi/wmv or similar formats?
>>>
>>
>> Nah, just copy the DVD as an ISO image. CD Audio Data Creator can do
>> this, along about half dozen other tools.
>
> Hmm, the message you're replying to never showed up here.
> Anyways FFmpeg and/or mencoder are quite capable of converting a dvd
> into most any other format. Worth considering to bring the file size
> down for those of us with low bandwidth
> Dave
>
Especially, since we are now discussing a TV video format other than US
standard, ...
--
Bill
Thanks a Million!

On 12/05/07 06:05 pm, William L. Hartzell wrote:
> Sir:
>
> Dave Yeo wrote:
>> On 12/04/07 09:19 pm, William L. Hartzell wrote:
>>> Sir:
>>>
>>> Peter Brown wrote:
>>>> Hi Rich
>>>>
>>>> Rich Wonneberger wrote:
>>>>> What we need is someone to make a movie video out of this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rich W.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm not that up on making a "movie video" myself...
>>>>
>>>> I do have a bit of hardware that I suspect would be potentially useful:
>>>> a dvd/vcr combo recorder. It is very capable of turning vhs tapes into
>>>> dvd recordings.
>>>>
>>>> Having created a "dvd version" I guess I then need some software to
>>>> convert dvd into mpg/avi/wmv or similar formats?
>>>>
>>> Nah, just copy the DVD as an ISO image. CD Audio Data Creator can do
>>> this, along about half dozen other tools.
>> Hmm, the message you're replying to never showed up here.
>> Anyways FFmpeg and/or mencoder are quite capable of converting a dvd
>> into most any other format. Worth considering to bring the file size
>> down for those of us with low bandwidth
>> Dave
>>
> Especially, since we are now discussing a TV video format other than US
> standard, ...

I think once it is converted to dvd format that it will play anywhere in
the world unless who ever transcodes it puts region coding on it
Dave

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:19:10 UTC, Peter Brown
opined:
> Hi Stan

> > There is an OS/2 group in the UK? Lucky Albion! Here OS/2 faded into
> > the mists of history years ago. When I tell my ISP "OS/2", the two
> > possible replies are: 1) "What's that?", and 2) "You mean Mac?". The
> > telephone company, on the other hand, has only one answer: "Which
> > Windows is that?"
>
> I think the responses are about the same worldwide regarding mention of
> OS/2...

Dunno. The mere fact that you have some kind of OS/2 group in the UK
means to me that the degree of awareness can't be quite the same as it
is here. I am reasonable sure that I am the entire Israel OS/2 User
Group, all the non-Windows folk having migrated to Linux long ago.

> > The postage for a single disk from here to Hingland can not be an
> > impressive sum. If it comes to that, It's rather more efficient for me
> > to pay it myself rather than waste time looking for the UK group and
> > negotiating a postage deal. I've already said that I would like a copy
> > of the resulting movie; I'd feel adequately rewarded.

> Feel free to send me an email - remove the "SPAM-ME-NOT" bit though.

Look in your mailbox.

--
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

Stan Goodman wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:46:22 UTC, Peter Brown
> opined:
>> Hi Stan
>>
>> Stan Goodman wrote:
>>> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:11:56 UTC, Paul Ratcliffe
>>> opined:
>>>> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 08:22:51 -0800, David T. Johnson
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> All that would be needed would be simple video capture and
>>>>> digitilization. EmperoarTV will do that on OS/2. The bigger problem
>>>>> might be finding equipment to play the tape and output the video to the
>>>>> computer so that it can be captured, especially if it is in a
>>>>> little-used format like 8mm, Beta, or VHS-C.
>>>> I believe the OP said it was VHS. I can't really believe it would be anything
>>>> else.
>>>>
>>>> Much more to the point is what format the recording is in. Is it so called
>>>> PAL (625/50) or so called NTSC (525/60)?
>>>
>>> The TV standard in Israel is PAL, and that is what the tape is.
>>>
>>> Sorry I neglected to say that. When I posted, I first looked at the
>>> box and the cassette to see what standards are called out, but there
>>> is no mention of any at all. Never having had any contact at all with
>>> tapes, I assumed it must be self-evident. Now a Google search assures
>>> me that the tape standard here is PAL.
>>>
>>> Do I understand correctly that there is a move to multiplicate the
>>> tape on DVD? I'm all for that. I would want a copy for myself.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I don't mind having a go at putting this tape onto dvd and possibly
>> using FFmpeg or similar to convert into mpg/avi/wmv
>>
>> However, you are in Israel and I'm in the UK; might be worth me checking
>> for a local copy with the OS2-UK group before discussing postage etc.
>
> There is an OS/2 group in the UK? Lucky Albion! Here OS/2 faded into
> the mists of history years ago. When I tell my ISP "OS/2", the two
> possible replies are: 1) "What's that?", and 2) "You mean Mac?". The
> telephone company, on the other hand, has only one answer: "Which
> Windows is that?"

If I have any conversation with my ISP, I first enjoy the shocked
silence on the other side, after I reply to their "What operating
system?" question, and then I tell them "Just talk with me as if I were
a Linux user." This usually works. :-)



--
Cheers,
Martin

UNDERSCOREmmiATcentrumDOTcz to email me

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 23:51:27 UTC, MMI opined:

> If I have any conversation with my ISP, I first enjoy the shocked
> silence on the other side, after I reply to their "What operating
> system?" question, and then I tell them "Just talk with me as if I were
> a Linux user." This usually works. :-)

Yes, that is the tactic I have adopted too. It's the only way to get
him to speak to me about function, rather than mouse clicks.

The only difference is that the ISP _never_ asks me "What operating
system"; he asks "What Windows are you using". The subsequent question
is "Then which Mac version".

It's all very sad.

--
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:40:07 UTC, "Stan Goodman"
wrote:

> On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 23:51:27 UTC, MMI opined:
>
> > If I have any conversation with my ISP, I first enjoy the shocked
> > silence on the other side, after I reply to their "What operating
> > system?" question, and then I tell them "Just talk with me as if I were
> > a Linux user." This usually works. :-)
>
> Yes, that is the tactic I have adopted too. It's the only way to get
> him to speak to me about function, rather than mouse clicks.
>
> The only difference is that the ISP _never_ asks me "What operating
> system"; he asks "What Windows are you using". The subsequent question
> is "Then which Mac version".
>
> It's all very sad.

I had a funny one the other day while discussing connectivity issues
with tech. support for my city municipal wifi internet. The guy was
prepping himself to explain the mysteries of "ping" to a windows user.
I told him I wasn't using windows, so I had no problem finding the
command line.

"Linux?" he asked. "No... (silent sigh from me) ... OS/2", I
confessed.

He said "Oh wow! You already know more than I do!".

--
Barbara

Hi

MMI wrote:
> Stan Goodman wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:46:22 UTC, Peter Brown
>> opined:
>>> Hi Stan
>>>
>>> Stan Goodman wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:11:56 UTC, Paul Ratcliffe
>>>> opined:
>>>>> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 08:22:51 -0800, David T. Johnson
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> All that would be needed would be simple video capture and
>>>>>> digitilization. EmperoarTV will do that on OS/2. The bigger
>>>>>> problem might be finding equipment to play the tape and output the
>>>>>> video to the computer so that it can be captured, especially if it
>>>>>> is in a little-used format like 8mm, Beta, or VHS-C.
>>>>> I believe the OP said it was VHS. I can't really believe it would
>>>>> be anything
>>>>> else.
>>>>>
>>>>> Much more to the point is what format the recording is in. Is it so
>>>>> called
>>>>> PAL (625/50) or so called NTSC (525/60)?
>>>>
>>>> The TV standard in Israel is PAL, and that is what the tape is.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry I neglected to say that. When I posted, I first looked at the
>>>> box and the cassette to see what standards are called out, but there
>>>> is no mention of any at all. Never having had any contact at all
>>>> with tapes, I assumed it must be self-evident. Now a Google search
>>>> assures me that the tape standard here is PAL.
>>>>
>>>> Do I understand correctly that there is a move to multiplicate the
>>>> tape on DVD? I'm all for that. I would want a copy for myself.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't mind having a go at putting this tape onto dvd and possibly
>>> using FFmpeg or similar to convert into mpg/avi/wmv
>>>
>>> However, you are in Israel and I'm in the UK; might be worth me
>>> checking for a local copy with the OS2-UK group before discussing
>>> postage etc.
>>
>> There is an OS/2 group in the UK? Lucky Albion! Here OS/2 faded into
>> the mists of history years ago. When I tell my ISP "OS/2", the two
>> possible replies are: 1) "What's that?", and 2) "You mean Mac?". The
>> telephone company, on the other hand, has only one answer: "Which
>> Windows is that?"
>
> If I have any conversation with my ISP, I first enjoy the shocked
> silence on the other side, after I reply to their "What operating
> system?" question, and then I tell them "Just talk with me as if I were
> a Linux user." This usually works. :-)
>
>
>



That may not work with Virgin Media (ex NTL) Tech Support: They will
calmly tell you that they "cannot and will not help if you are not
running a fairly current Windows or Mac system".

However, when this happened to me I contacted VM Customer Service and
gave them 24 hours to remove all their bits and bobs from my property
including their cable. I also mentioned some useful words: "Solicitor"
and "Breach of Contract".

They asked why; I told them about the Tech Support response and the fact
that regardless of OS in use this was a tcpip problem at their end. Then
I was told that I should put the phone down and wait for a call back in
a few minutes.

About 10 mins later VM Tech Support phoned and asked what the problem
was and it was resolved very quickly - the cable modem was failing and
needed replacing which happened within a couple of hours.

Simply a case of being prepared to put the (legal) boot in :-)

Regards

Pete

Stan Goodman wrote:

> On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 23:51:27 UTC, MMI opined:
>
>> If I have any conversation with my ISP, I first enjoy the shocked
>> silence on the other side, after I reply to their "What operating
>> system?" question, and then I tell them "Just talk with me as if I were
>> a Linux user." This usually works. :-)
>
> Yes, that is the tactic I have adopted too. It's the only way to get
> him to speak to me about function, rather than mouse clicks.
>
> The only difference is that the ISP _never_ asks me "What operating
> system"; he asks "What Windows are you using". The subsequent question
> is "Then which Mac version".
>
> It's all very sad.

The best one I've seen lately was calling tech support for a web hosting
site. The site itself makes a big deal about running under Debian Linux
but their tech support (Level 1, at least) starting escalating the call the
minute I said that I wanted to set some configurations not cover by their
Win oriented web management interface. No clue about directory structure,
permissions, aliases, nada! Finally got one tech on the line and despite
an accent that was barely intelligible we communicated quite easily once
explained what I was running and what I wanted to do.

--
Will Honea

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On 07 Dec 2007 11:40:07 GMT, Stan Goodman wrote:

> The only difference is that the ISP _never_ asks me "What operating
> system"; he asks "What Windows are you using". The subsequent question
> is "Then which Mac version".

Why the f* does it matter what damned OS anyone is running? The TCP/IP packets
don't care. I often wonder what people talk to their ISPs about that is so
relevant to Windoze.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:39:32 UTC, Paul Ratcliffe
opined:
> On 07 Dec 2007 11:40:07 GMT, Stan Goodman wrote:
>
> > The only difference is that the ISP _never_ asks me "What operating
> > system"; he asks "What Windows are you using". The subsequent question
> > is "Then which Mac version".
>
> Why the f* does it matter what damned OS anyone is running? The TCP/IP packets
> don't care. I often wonder what people talk to their ISPs about that is so
> relevant to Windoze.

There is nothing that they talk about that is relevant to Windows. The
proof of that is that the experience of any of us in speaking with the
ISP support staff invariably centers on getting the tech to speak in
general terms, rather than drawing a picture of which button is where
on a Windows desktop. The point is that the great marketting success
of Windows has lead to a situation in which the great majority of
Windows users regard the computer and its software as a black box with
only one control (the On/Off switch) and all the complexity of a
toaster. For this reason, Windows users _prefer_ and _require_ that
support personnel guide them in this way. If you are using OS/2 or
Linux, you learn to deal with it.

--
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

On 07 Dec 2007 23:47:05 GMT, Stan Goodman wrote:

>> > The only difference is that the ISP _never_ asks me "What operating
>> > system"; he asks "What Windows are you using". The subsequent question
>> > is "Then which Mac version".
>>
>> Why the f* does it matter what damned OS anyone is running? The TCP/IP packets
>> don't care. I often wonder what people talk to their ISPs about that is so
>> relevant to Windoze.
>
> There is nothing that they talk about that is relevant to Windows.

Exactly, so why not just tell them what they want to hear, by lieing, and move
on?

Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
> On 07 Dec 2007 11:40:07 GMT, Stan Goodman wrote:
>
>> The only difference is that the ISP _never_ asks me "What operating
>> system"; he asks "What Windows are you using". The subsequent question
>> is "Then which Mac version".
>
> Why the f* does it matter what damned OS anyone is running? The TCP/IP packets
> don't care. I often wonder what people talk to their ISPs about that is so
> relevant to Windoze.

Good point. Why even talk to the phone rep. " >ipconfig -all" is going
to tell you everything you need to know.

Paul Ratcliffe wrote:

> On 07 Dec 2007 11:40:07 GMT, Stan Goodman wrote:
>
>> The only difference is that the ISP _never_ asks me "What operating
>> system"; he asks "What Windows are you using". The subsequent question
>> is "Then which Mac version".
>
> Why the f* does it matter what damned OS anyone is running? The TCP/IP
> packets don't care. I often wonder what people talk to their ISPs about
> that is so relevant to Windoze.

Paul, the problem is more one of the support people. They can take a burger
flipper and train him to follow the script for using Windows tools - but he
still doesn't know what all his prattle means. I've spent too many hours
on hold trying to get even the simplest information from those "level 1"
techs already. My son took a job with one of the fairly large NE US
providers (territory covers Chicago to upstate NY and New England, call
center is in Colorado - go figure). He had spent some time with me
figuring out networking from OS/2 and that taught him enough that they
bumped him to level 2 then level three within a month. You don't get
competent network techs for minimum wage but the vast majority of problems
can be handled from a canned script - IF the caller uses the most common
operating system so that you can step him through the mouse clicks as
written in his script. Scott's outfit actually rewards the low level types
who are smart enough to forward issues beyond their competence as soon as
they recognize a problem - cuts average support call time by a huge amount
and keeps customers happy at the same time. It's that low level tech that
needs you to be running the OS he expects. Where nearly all the outfits
fall down is not training their people to quickly pass the unusual calls on
up ASAP.

--
Will Honea

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 02:12:47 UTC, Paul Ratcliffe
opined:
> On 07 Dec 2007 23:47:05 GMT, Stan Goodman wrote:
>
> >> > The only difference is that the ISP _never_ asks me "What operating
> >> > system"; he asks "What Windows are you using". The subsequent question
> >> > is "Then which Mac version".
> >>
> >> Why the f* does it matter what damned OS anyone is running? The TCP/IP packets
> >> don't care. I often wonder what people talk to their ISPs about that is so
> >> relevant to Windoze.
> >
> > There is nothing that they talk about that is relevant to Windows.
>
> Exactly, so why not just tell them what they want to hear, by lieing, and move
> on?

Because if I tell them I am using XP, they will tell me what to click
on, using names that are specific to XP (or to Windows) and
meaningless to me.

--
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 01:43:16 -0700, Will Honea wrote:

> Where nearly all the outfits fall down is not training their people to
> quickly pass the unusual calls on up ASAP.

Your explanation makes perfect sense and the above is really crucial - those
customers who do know what they are talking about should bypass all the
level 1 crap automatically, but they do not. It is very difficult to get
beyond it without an argument.