list posts in UTF-8 - NTP

This is a discussion on list posts in UTF-8 - NTP ; David J Taylor wrote: > Rob van der Putten wrote: > [] > >>Does it just convert mail to news? On news to mail as well? >>So what does this look like? >>Euro: ? >>mu: >>z-caron: z > > ...

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Thread: list posts in UTF-8

  1. Re: list posts in UTF-8

    David J Taylor wrote:
    > Rob van der Putten wrote:
    > []
    >
    >>Does it just convert mail to news? On news to mail as well?
    >>So what does this look like?
    >>Euro: ?
    >>mu:
    >>z-caron: z

    >
    > []
    >
    >>Regards,
    >>Rob

    >
    >
    > Rob,
    >
    > Those characters display correctly on my NNTP feed from my ISP, using
    > Microsoft Outlook Express for news-reading.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > David
    >
    >

    they are botched in the cite from your reply. ( my mozillas guess is ISO8859-1 )

    uwe


  2. Re: list posts in UTF-8

    David J Taylor wrote:
    > Rob van der Putten wrote:
    >
    >>Hi there
    >>
    >>
    >>David J Taylor wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Those characters display correctly on my NNTP feed from my ISP, using
    >>>Microsoft Outlook Express for news-reading.

    >>
    >>You convert the text without stating the charset used, which makes non
    >>ascii unreadable.
    >>This is probably an Outlook bug.
    >>
    >>
    >>Regards,
    >>Rob

    >
    >
    > Rob,
    >
    > I'm using Microsoft Outlook Express, not Outlook. They are different
    > products.
    >
    > I didn't knowingly "convert" the text, and my own reply to you appeared
    > with the correct characters displaying. At least, it did on my own ISP's
    > news server! Whether it got corrupted on its way to you I don't know.
    > Let me see what Google Groups shows. Can't find your or my post there
    > right now.
    >
    > Your message shows:
    > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
    > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
    >
    > My message shows:
    > X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
    >
    > Whether that's my newsreader or my ISP I don't know. My program's Send
    > settings include an option for UUencode or MIME, and it's currently set yo
    > UUencode, if that helps.


    my guess is OE converted to ISO8859-1 but did not tell anyone
    ( no encoding info in your post here. )

    uwe

  3. Re: list posts in UTF-8

    Uwe Klein wrote:
    > David J Taylor wrote:
    >> Rob van der Putten wrote:
    >> []
    >>
    >>> Does it just convert mail to news? On news to mail as well?
    >>> So what does this look like?
    >>> Euro: ?
    >>> mu:
    >>> z-caron: z

    >>
    >> []
    >>
    >>> Regards,
    >>> Rob

    >>
    >>
    >> Rob,
    >>
    >> Those characters display correctly on my NNTP feed from my ISP, using
    >> Microsoft Outlook Express for news-reading.
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >> David
    >>
    >>

    > they are botched in the cite from your reply. ( my mozillas guess is
    > ISO8859-1 )
    > uwe


    Not here, they're not. Enough off-topic from me, though, for now.

    Cheers,
    David



  4. Re: list posts in UTF-8

    Uwe Klein wrote:
    []
    > my guess is OE converted to ISO8859-1 but did not tell anyone
    > ( no encoding info in your post here. )
    >
    > uwe


    Thanks, Uwe. If there's a setting I have wrong, I'll gladly alter it.

    Cheers,
    David



  5. Re: list posts in UTF-8

    Hi there


    David J Taylor wrote:

    > Thanks, Uwe. If there's a setting I have wrong, I'll gladly alter it.


    Google;
    Outlook Express, missing "charset=";
    http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00167.html


    Your posting uses local language characters like u+umlaut, but
    it does not contain the required MIME headers which specify the correct
    character set (probably ISO-8859/1). You can fix this as follows:

    Tools -> Options... -> Send -> News Sending Format -> Plain Text
    Settings... You probably have "Message format" set to "Uuencode" (which
    is some stupid OE default). If so, set it to "MIME", set "Encode text
    using:" to "None" and do *not* set (i.e. no tic-mark) "Allow 8-bit
    characters in headers".

    You may want to set the "Mail Sending Format" the same.



    Regards,
    Rob

  6. Re: list posts in UTF-8

    Rob van der Putten wrote:
    []
    > Does it just convert mail to news? On news to mail as well?
    > So what does this look like?
    > Euro: €
    > mu: µ
    > z-caron: ž

    []
    > Regards,
    > Rob


    Rob,

    This is a second reply to your post, with Outlook Express set to MIME
    encoding as you suggested. My e-mail settings were already set that way.

    Thanks for your time in sorting this out, and my apologies to others who
    are probably bored silly!

    David


  7. Re: list posts in UTF-8

    On 2008-10-27, Rob van der Putten wrote:

    > Ryan Malayter wrote:
    >
    >> So is it the pipermail gateway that is not Unicode compliant,

    >
    > Does it just convert mail to news? On news to mail as well?


    Pipermail is just Mailman's archive mechanism. It has _nothing_ to do
    with the gateway.

    > So what does this look like?


    FWIW I received this article from my ISP's upstream news-server. Here
    are the relevant headers:

    | Path: kostecke.net!s02-b32!num01.iad!npeer02.iad.highwinds-media.com! \
    | news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com! \
    | cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!nx02.iad.newshost ing.com! \
    | newshosting.com!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl !xs4all! \
    | transit4.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
    | User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.8.1.17) \
    | Gecko/20080829 Iceape/1.1.12 (Debian-1.1.12-1)
    | MIME-Version: 1.0
    | Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
    | Subject: Re: list posts in UTF-8
    | References: <5d7f07420810261914i4e6ebe47l61937e523065d3bc@mail. gmail.com>
    | In-Reply-To: <5d7f07420810261914i4e6ebe47l61937e523065d3bc@mail. gmail.com>
    | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
    | Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
    | Lines: 47
    | Message-ID: <4905bcfb$0$184$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
    | X-Trace: 1225112827 news.xs4all.nl 184 [::ffff:aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd]:4480

    I am using slrn packaged for Debian Stable (version 0.9.8.1pl1-28) in
    both a 'screen in ssh in an xterm' session and at an 80 column x 60 line
    console (using using a font chosen for readability) and on the standard
    80x25 Linux console.

    > Euro: ?


    This is a hex 3F and renders as a question-mark everywhere.

    > mu:


    This is a hex B5 and renders properly in the xterm and the 25 line
    console. It looks like a squashed upper-case A with an acute accent on
    the 60 line console.

    > z-caron: ?


    This is a hex 3F and renders as a question-mark everywhere.

    --
    Steve Kostecke
    NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

  8. Re: list posts in UTF-8

    On 2008-10-27, Ryan Malayter wrote:

    > Is this just a setting that could to be changed on the email-to-NNTP
    > gateway?


    It is not that simple.

    --
    Steve Kostecke
    NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

  9. Re: list posts in UTF-8

    Hi there


    Steve Kostecke wrote:

    > Pipermail is just Mailman's archive mechanism. It has _nothing_ to do
    > with the gateway.


    Anyone using the gateway?



    > | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
    > | Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


    I don't think news servers do charset conversions.



    > I am using slrn packaged for Debian Stable (version 0.9.8.1pl1-28) in
    > both a 'screen in ssh in an xterm' session and at an 80 column x 60 line
    > console (using using a font chosen for readability) and on the standard
    > 80x25 Linux console.


    My 80x25 Linux console is UTF-8.

    > This is a hex 3F and renders as a question-mark everywhere.


    Euro should be hex E2 82 AC

    > This is a hex B5


    Greek mu should be hex C2 B5

    > and renders properly in the xterm and the 25 line
    > console. It looks like a squashed upper-case A with an acute accent on
    > the 60 line console.


    > This is a hex 3F and renders as a question-mark everywhere.


    z-caron should be hex C5 BE

    I assume you are using ISO-8859-1 as your default locale. ISO-8859-1
    does not contain a Euro or z-caron.


    Regards,
    Rob
    --
    Anglo-Saxon management is a memetic virus

  10. Re: list posts in UTF-8

    On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Rob van der Putten wrote:

    > But your post doesn't;
    > The Content-type is text/plain; charset="windows-1252". The content
    > encoding is 7bit.
    > Something is seriously broken.


    It certainly is, considering my message was a reply to your UTF-8
    message. Gmail apparently sends *new* messages as UTF-8, but replied
    to your UTF-8 with charset="windows-1252". That is seriously broken
    behavior on Gmail's part.

    However, replies to other UTF-8 messages in Gmail (email not
    NNTP-to-email such as yours) seem to use UTF-8 just fine. Maybe the
    huge stream of headers confused Gmail... the content-type header was
    on line #61 in your post!

    I'll have to check to see if I get the same behavior from Thunderbird.

    On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Steve Kostecke wrote:
    >> Is this just a setting that could to be changed on the email-to-NNTP
    >> gateway?

    >
    > It is not that simple.


    Apparently not, based on the variety of behaviors people have
    reported. I'm sorry I brought it up, and will try to restrict myself
    to the US-ASCII character set.
    --
    RPM

  11. Re: list posts in UTF-8

    On 2008-10-27, Ryan Malayter wrote:

    > On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Steve Kostecke
    > wrote:
    >
    >> ATTRIBUTION MISSING wrote:
    >>
    >>> Is this just a setting that could to be changed on the email-to-NNTP
    >>> gateway?

    >>
    >> It is not that simple.

    >
    > Apparently not, based on the variety of behaviors people have
    > reported.


    There is a 7-bit / 8-bit setting in the MIME processing portion of the
    gateway (demime 1.1d). Although I have changed this to 8-bit there is
    no guarantee that everything will work properly.

    > I'm sorry I brought it up, and will try to restrict myself to the
    > US-ASCII character set.


    You are likely not aware of the historical back ground of the
    comp.protocols.time.ntp newsgroup and the questions@ntp.org mailing
    list.

    The comp.protocols.time.ntp newsgroup was created on June 27th, 1990,
    (see http://groups.google.com/group/comp....ols.time.ntp/\
    browse_thread/thread/606893475b5fc71d#).

    The questions@ntp.org mailing list was created on July 18th, 2003 to
    provide an e-mail interface to the newsgroup and initially used the
    Mailman nntp gateway.

    In mid 2005, following some heated discussion about broken article
    threading (more contentious than the the coments in this thread), we
    switched to my gateway implementation. Since then the current gateway
    has handled over 16,500 articles. Although it thas been quite reliable,
    the occasional issues which arise tend to be discussed in traditional
    Usenet manner.

    The gateway includes a MIME processor to prevent mailing list
    subscribers from sending HTML, and other undesireable MIME entities, to
    the newsgroup. We are currently using a customized version of demime
    1.1d but an equivalent filter (or a suitably modified version of demime)
    could be easily substituted if someone were willing to provide it.

    --
    Steve Kostecke
    NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

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