bitsy.mit.edu retired? - NTP

This is a discussion on bitsy.mit.edu retired? - NTP ; Hey all, I've frequently used the venerable old standby "bitsy.mit.edu" as an NTP server -- it had an easy to remember name, and was more "neutral" than time.windows.com or something similar. I also recall that it had a fairly open ...

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  1. bitsy.mit.edu retired?

    Hey all,

    I've frequently used the venerable old standby "bitsy.mit.edu" as an
    NTP server -- it had an easy to remember name, and was more "neutral"
    than time.windows.com or something similar. I also recall that it had
    a fairly open access policy, and over time I had committed the IP
    address (18.72.0.3) to memory.

    At the current time (no pun intended) I'm unable to get any NTP data
    from it, and it's not on any of the lists -- has it been retired or
    shuffled off? Or am I just crazy?

    -Dan Mahoney

  2. Re: bitsy.mit.edu retired?

    Gushi wrote:
    > Hey all,
    >
    > I've frequently used the venerable old standby "bitsy.mit.edu" as an
    > NTP server -- it had an easy to remember name, and was more "neutral"
    > than time.windows.com or something similar. I also recall that it had
    > a fairly open access policy, and over time I had committed the IP
    > address (18.72.0.3) to memory.
    >
    > At the current time (no pun intended) I'm unable to get any NTP data
    > from it, and it's not on any of the lists -- has it been retired or
    > shuffled off? Or am I just crazy?
    >
    > -Dan Mahoney


    The fact that it's not on any of the lists suggests that it's not a
    public server! The fact that you can't get any response to an NTP query
    suggests that it's not running ntpd.

    Can you ping it? It might not be running at all!

  3. Re: bitsy.mit.edu retired?

    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

    > Can you ping it? It might not be running at all!


    Sadly, the inability to ping (or traceroute) to a host is no longer a
    reliable indicator of whether or not the host is up or even if it exists.
    Tools like nmap will tell you, but who knows what
    paranoid-security-theater-homeland-security laws you'll run afoul of if you
    scan strangers?

    Sad, really, and much less useful than it use to be.

    --
    Peter Laws / N5UWY
    National Weather Center / Network Operations Center
    University of Oklahoma Information Technology
    plaws@ou.edu
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Feedback? Contact my director, Craig Cochell, craigc@ou.edu. Thank you!

  4. Re: bitsy.mit.edu retired?

    On Aug 14, 7:29*pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    wrote:
    > Gushi wrote:
    > > Hey all,

    >
    > > I've frequently used the venerable old standby "bitsy.mit.edu" as an
    > > NTP server -- it had an easy to remember name, and was more "neutral"
    > > than time.windows.com or something similar. *I also recall that it had
    > > a fairly open access policy, and over time I had committed the IP
    > > address (18.72.0.3) to memory.

    >
    > > At the current time (no pun intended) I'm unable to get any NTP data
    > > from it, and it's not on any of the lists -- has it been retired or
    > > shuffled off? *Or am I just crazy?

    >
    > > -Dan Mahoney

    >
    > The fact that it's not on any of the lists suggests that it's not a
    > public server! *The fact that you can't get any response to an NTP query
    > suggests that it's not running ntpd.


    Thanks for the tier-one diagnostic there.

    My hope was more to hear from people who had "gotten a memo" that I
    had missed about its retirement, or possibly even hear from an MIT
    admin who might have been able to answer. I had previously (for about
    ten years) gotten valid ntp responses from that server. I can do a
    google search and find dozens of references to it, being used publicly
    and in many sample ntp.conf files. On top of that, I recall in the
    past looking it up and finding it on an "official" servers list.

    http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-...sy.mit.edu+ntp

    > Can you ping it? *It might not be running at all!


    It's pingable.

    -Dan

  5. Re: bitsy.mit.edu retired?

    On 2008-08-15, Gushi wrote:

    > On Aug 14, 7:29*pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:
    >
    >> Gushi wrote:
    >>
    >> > I've frequently used the venerable old standby "bitsy.mit.edu" as
    >> > an NTP server -- it had an easy to remember name, and was more
    >> > "neutral"


    [snip]

    >> The fact that it's not on any of the lists suggests that it's not a
    >> public server! *The fact that you can't get any response to an NTP query
    >> suggests that it's not running ntpd.


    Or it may mean that ntpd is not configured to allow you access.

    > My hope was more to hear from people who had "gotten a memo" that I
    > had missed about its retirement, or possibly even hear from an MIT
    > admin who might have been able to answer. I had previously (for about
    > ten years) gotten valid ntp responses from that server.


    I searched http://support.ntp.org/servers (the location of the Public
    Time Server Lists formerly maintained by Dr. David Mills) and did not
    find any reference to bitsy on either the primary, sercondary, or
    inactive server lists. Nor have I received any e-mail concerning bitsy
    in my e-mail archives.

    --
    Steve Kostecke
    NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

  6. Re: bitsy.mit.edu retired?

    Gushi,

    Bitsy.mit.edu is alive, but not running NTP for whatever reason.

    Bitsy.udel.edu was among the first public timetellers in the world,
    including clepsydra.decwrl.com and fuzzball dcn1.arpa (128.4.1.1). They
    first chimed circa 1984. Of the three, only 128.4.1.1 has public chime,
    but now a Pentium called rackety.udel.edu.

    Dave

    Gushi wrote:

    > On Aug 14, 7:29 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Gushi wrote:
    >>
    >>>Hey all,

    >>
    >>>I've frequently used the venerable old standby "bitsy.mit.edu" as an
    >>>NTP server -- it had an easy to remember name, and was more "neutral"
    >>>than time.windows.com or something similar. I also recall that it had
    >>>a fairly open access policy, and over time I had committed the IP
    >>>address (18.72.0.3) to memory.

    >>
    >>>At the current time (no pun intended) I'm unable to get any NTP data
    >>>from it, and it's not on any of the lists -- has it been retired or
    >>>shuffled off? Or am I just crazy?

    >>
    >>>-Dan Mahoney

    >>
    >>The fact that it's not on any of the lists suggests that it's not a
    >>public server! The fact that you can't get any response to an NTP query
    >>suggests that it's not running ntpd.

    >
    >
    > Thanks for the tier-one diagnostic there.
    >
    > My hope was more to hear from people who had "gotten a memo" that I
    > had missed about its retirement, or possibly even hear from an MIT
    > admin who might have been able to answer. I had previously (for about
    > ten years) gotten valid ntp responses from that server. I can do a
    > google search and find dozens of references to it, being used publicly
    > and in many sample ntp.conf files. On top of that, I recall in the
    > past looking it up and finding it on an "official" servers list.
    >
    > http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-...sy.mit.edu+ntp
    >
    >
    >>Can you ping it? It might not be running at all!

    >
    >
    > It's pingable.
    >
    > -Dan


  7. Re: bitsy.mit.edu retired?

    David L. Mills wrote:
    > Gushi,
    >
    > Bitsy.mit.edu is alive, but not running NTP for whatever reason.
    >
    > Bitsy.udel.edu was among the first public timetellers in the world,
    > including clepsydra.decwrl.com and fuzzball dcn1.arpa (128.4.1.1). They
    > first chimed circa 1984. Of the three, only 128.4.1.1 has public chime,
    > but now a Pentium called rackety.udel.edu.
    >
    > Dave
    >
    > Gushi wrote:
    >
    >> On Aug 14, 7:29 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Gushi wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Hey all,
    >>>
    >>>> I've frequently used the venerable old standby "bitsy.mit.edu" as an
    >>>> NTP server -- it had an easy to remember name, and was more "neutral"
    >>>> than time.windows.com or something similar. I also recall that it had
    >>>> a fairly open access policy, and over time I had committed the IP
    >>>> address (18.72.0.3) to memory.
    >>>
    >>>> At the current time (no pun intended) I'm unable to get any NTP data
    >>>> from it, and it's not on any of the lists -- has it been retired or
    >>>> shuffled off? Or am I just crazy?
    >>>
    >>>> -Dan Mahoney
    >>>
    >>> The fact that it's not on any of the lists suggests that it's not a
    >>> public server! The fact that you can't get any response to an NTP query
    >>> suggests that it's not running ntpd.

    >>
    >>
    >> Thanks for the tier-one diagnostic there.
    >>
    >> My hope was more to hear from people who had "gotten a memo" that I
    >> had missed about its retirement, or possibly even hear from an MIT
    >> admin who might have been able to answer. I had previously (for about
    >> ten years) gotten valid ntp responses from that server.


    Ten years is about three lifetimes in computer years. You can keep an
    old box running for longer but many people don't run them even that long!

    Sooner or later you get to the point where the poor old thing can't run
    something you want to run; the applications you need, need more RAM than
    the box will hold or need more CPU cycles than the box can do. Then
    it's a paper weight or a door stop!

    Bitsy may have found a place in the Computer History Museum. Or maybe a
    place in a dumpster.

  8. Re: bitsy.mit.edu retired?

    In article ,
    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

    >Bitsy may have found a place in the Computer History Museum. Or maybe a
    >place in a dumpster.


    In point of fact, bitsy is still alive and well; it's one of the
    authoritative name servers for MIT.EDU. I'm sure its administrators
    have followed the common practice of not running disparate services on
    a single machine. (There are probably more people in the world who
    know that the three campus name servers are bitsy, strawb, and w20ns,
    than know that bitsy was once an NTP server.)

    There are numerous public and semi-public NTP servers at MIT. Bitsy
    is no longer one of them.

    I would not be shocked to be told that bitsy was once Jeff Schiller's
    personal workstation (presumably back in the RT/VAXstation era).

    -GAWollman
    --
    Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
    wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
    Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
    of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness

  9. Re: bitsy.mit.edu retired?

    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    > David L. Mills wrote:
    > > Bitsy.mit.edu is alive, but not running NTP for whatever reason.
    > >
    > > Bitsy.udel.edu was among the first public timetellers in the
    > > world, including clepsydra.decwrl.com and fuzzball dcn1.arpa
    > > (128.4.1.1). They first chimed circa 1984. Of the three, only
    > > 128.4.1.1 has public chime, but now a Pentium called
    > > rackety.udel.edu.


    > Ten years is about three lifetimes in computer years. You can keep
    > an old box running for longer but many people don't run them even
    > that long!


    > Sooner or later you get to the point where the poor old thing can't
    > run something you want to run; the applications you need, need more
    > RAM than the box will hold or need more CPU cycles than the box can
    > do. Then it's a paper weight or a door stop!


    > Bitsy may have found a place in the Computer History Museum. Or
    > maybe a place in a dumpster.


    Specifics of systems named bitsy or with an IP of 128.4.1.1 asside,
    since a system's hostname and IP can be passed-on from one generation
    of hardware to another, that a name/IP has been active for N units of
    time cannot really be used as an accurate estimate of the age of the
    hardware behind it

    I've had several systems over a number of years called
    tardy.cup.hp.com...

    rick jones
    --
    portable adj, code that compiles under more than one compiler
    these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
    feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

  10. Re: bitsy.mit.edu retired?

    Richard,

    Yes, the iron russ and dies, but the server name lives forever. The
    rackety.udel.edu server here has outlived the LSI-11 and generations of
    SPARC and Intel processors.

    Dave

    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    > David L. Mills wrote:
    >
    >> Gushi,
    >>
    >> Bitsy.mit.edu is alive, but not running NTP for whatever reason.
    >>
    >> Bitsy.udel.edu was among the first public timetellers in the world,
    >> including clepsydra.decwrl.com and fuzzball dcn1.arpa (128.4.1.1).
    >> They first chimed circa 1984. Of the three, only 128.4.1.1 has public
    >> chime, but now a Pentium called rackety.udel.edu.
    >>
    >> Dave
    >>
    >> Gushi wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Aug 14, 7:29 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Gushi wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Hey all,
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> I've frequently used the venerable old standby "bitsy.mit.edu" as an
    >>>>> NTP server -- it had an easy to remember name, and was more "neutral"
    >>>>> than time.windows.com or something similar. I also recall that it had
    >>>>> a fairly open access policy, and over time I had committed the IP
    >>>>> address (18.72.0.3) to memory.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> At the current time (no pun intended) I'm unable to get any NTP data
    >>>>> from it, and it's not on any of the lists -- has it been retired or
    >>>>> shuffled off? Or am I just crazy?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> -Dan Mahoney
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> The fact that it's not on any of the lists suggests that it's not a
    >>>> public server! The fact that you can't get any response to an NTP
    >>>> query
    >>>> suggests that it's not running ntpd.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Thanks for the tier-one diagnostic there.
    >>>
    >>> My hope was more to hear from people who had "gotten a memo" that I
    >>> had missed about its retirement, or possibly even hear from an MIT
    >>> admin who might have been able to answer. I had previously (for about
    >>> ten years) gotten valid ntp responses from that server.

    >
    >
    > Ten years is about three lifetimes in computer years. You can keep an
    > old box running for longer but many people don't run them even that long!
    >
    > Sooner or later you get to the point where the poor old thing can't run
    > something you want to run; the applications you need, need more RAM than
    > the box will hold or need more CPU cycles than the box can do. Then
    > it's a paper weight or a door stop!
    >
    > Bitsy may have found a place in the Computer History Museum. Or maybe a
    > place in a dumpster.


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