Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution - NTP

This is a discussion on Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution - NTP ; Hello, I'm new to this list. Thanks for reading this. I hope, with your help, I'll be able to make SNTP available to all Runtime Revolution developers ( http://www.runrev.com ). Obviously, I would like to open a connection to an ...

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Thread: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

  1. Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    Hello,

    I'm new to this list. Thanks for reading this. I hope, with your help,
    I'll be able to make SNTP available to all Runtime Revolution developers
    (http://www.runrev.com).

    Obviously, I would like to open a connection to an SNTP server and get
    the time. I could use a command line tool, but I don't want to use any
    existing tools for this. I want to read the time from a server, directly
    from inside Revolution.

    I've had a quick look at
    but I don't know
    where to start. I believe, I should first try to get some kind of a
    reply from a server, just to see that I can connect. Once I can do that,
    I believe want to implement section 5 of the protocol, "SNTP Client
    Operations".

    In pseudocode, I am doing someting like this:

    open a udp connection to
    check for error
    send some data to
    check for error
    read some data from
    check for error and check data
    close connection to

    I also tried:

    open a udp connection to
    check for error
    send some data to
    check for error
    close connection to
    open port 123 for incoming connections
    check for errors
    wait for a connection from the server at port 123
    # the remainder never executes
    # because the server doesn't reply
    read some data from port 123
    check for error and check data
    close port 123

    There are no errors and no data are received from the server. How do I
    get the server to respond, so I know that I'm ready to implement the
    remainder of the protocol?

    Can you recommend any public time servers, or refer me to a list of
    servers, with reliably connections that are good to experiment with?

    Any help to get me started is highly appreciated (yes, really).

    --
    Mark

    Economy-x-Talk
    Have your own custom software created
    http://economy-x-talk.com

  2. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    Mark wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I'm new to this list. Thanks for reading this. I hope, with your help,
    > I'll be able to make SNTP available to all Runtime Revolution developers
    > (http://www.runrev.com).
    >
    > Obviously, I would like to open a connection to an SNTP server and get


    SNTP is NOT supposed to serve time unless the system has a hardware
    reference clock!!

    Normally you would use the full NTP implementation for a server.


    > Can you recommend any public time servers, or refer me to a list of
    > servers, with reliably connections that are good to experiment with?
    >


    See the lists of stratum 1 and stratum 2 public servers at http://ntp.org

  3. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    Set up your own computer running with ntp. YOu can now use that to
    experiment with to your heart's content. Filling the net with your
    experiments espcially while you do not know what you are doing is not very
    polite.

    There is no need to "test the connection". Sending and receiving an ntp
    packet "tests the connection" in the only way it needs to be tested and
    gives you the time as well.
    On the other hand, do you really want all of the bells and whistles of
    SNTP? -- Ie do you really want to be disciplining your local clock? That is
    far far better left to a separate program ( ntp or chrony or...)
    You have not told us WHY you want to do this. That reason could suggest
    much better solutions to us.


    Mark writes:

    >Hello,


    >I'm new to this list. Thanks for reading this. I hope, with your help,
    >I'll be able to make SNTP available to all Runtime Revolution developers
    >(http://www.runrev.com).


    >Obviously, I would like to open a connection to an SNTP server and get
    >the time. I could use a command line tool, but I don't want to use any
    >existing tools for this. I want to read the time from a server, directly
    >from inside Revolution.


    >I've had a quick look at
    > but I don't know
    >where to start. I believe, I should first try to get some kind of a
    >reply from a server, just to see that I can connect. Once I can do that,
    >I believe want to implement section 5 of the protocol, "SNTP Client
    >Operations".


    >In pseudocode, I am doing someting like this:


    >open a udp connection to
    >check for error
    >send some data to
    >check for error
    >read some data from
    >check for error and check data
    >close connection to


    >I also tried:


    >open a udp connection to
    >check for error
    >send some data to
    >check for error
    >close connection to
    >open port 123 for incoming connections
    >check for errors
    >wait for a connection from the server at port 123
    ># the remainder never executes
    ># because the server doesn't reply
    >read some data from port 123
    >check for error and check data
    >close port 123


    >There are no errors and no data are received from the server. How do I
    >get the server to respond, so I know that I'm ready to implement the
    >remainder of the protocol?


    >Can you recommend any public time servers, or refer me to a list of
    >servers, with reliably connections that are good to experiment with?


    >Any help to get me started is highly appreciated (yes, really).


    >--
    >Mark


    >Economy-x-Talk
    >Have your own custom software created
    >http://economy-x-talk.com


  4. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    Mark wrote:> Hello,
    >
    > I'm new to this list. Thanks for reading this. I hope, with your help,


    Actually its a newsgroup.

    > I'll be able to make SNTP available to all Runtime Revolution developers
    > (http://www.runrev.com).
    >
    > Obviously, I would like to open a connection to an SNTP server and get


    UDP is connectionless, so you cannot open a connection.

    > reply from a server, just to see that I can connect. Once I can do that,
    > I believe want to implement section 5 of the protocol, "SNTP Client
    > Operations".


    Unless you act as a valid client, you may well not get any reply.

    >
    > In pseudocode, I am doing someting like this:
    >
    > open a udp connection to


    Physically impossible.

    > check for error
    > send some data to


    Data needs to be a valid SNTP request.

    > check for error
    > read some data from
    > check for error and check data
    > close connection to
    >
    > I also tried:
    >
    > open a udp connection to
    > check for error
    > send some data to
    > check for error
    > close connection to
    > open port 123 for incoming connections


    The response will be to the source port you used in the request.
    Note previous comment about there being no connections.
    >
    >
    > Can you recommend any public time servers, or refer me to a list of
    > servers, with reliably connections that are good to experiment with?


    Install ntpd on a local machine.

    >


  5. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    On 2008-07-27, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

    > See the lists of stratum 1 and stratum 2 public servers at http://ntp.org


    Public Time Server Lists shortcuts:

    Stratum 2 - http://support.ntp.org/s2
    Stratum 1 - http://support.ntp.org/s1
    Homepage - http://support.ntp.org/servers

    --
    Steve Kostecke
    NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

  6. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    On 2008-07-27, Steve Kostecke wrote:

    > On 2008-07-27, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    >
    >> See the lists of stratum 1 and stratum 2 public servers at
    >> http://ntp.org

    >
    > Public Time Server Lists shortcuts:


    These shortcuts work for http://ntp.org/, http://www.ntp.org/ and
    http://support.ntp.org/:

    Stratum 2 - /s2 (http://www.ntp.org/s2)
    Stratum 1 - /s1 (http://www.ntp.org/s1)
    Homepage - /servers (http://www.ntp.org/servers)

    HTH

    --
    Steve Kostecke
    NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

  7. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    David Woolley wrote:
    > Mark wrote:> Hello,
    >>
    >> I'm new to this list. Thanks for reading this. I hope, with your help,

    >
    > Actually its a newsgroup.


    It's also a mailing list!

    You and I get it via "net news" or whatever you'd like to call it. He,
    evidently, receives it as e-mail. That works too.

  8. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    > David Woolley wrote:
    >> Mark wrote:> Hello,
    >>>
    >>> I'm new to this list. Thanks for reading this. I hope, with your help,

    >>
    >> Actually its a newsgroup.

    >
    > It's also a mailing list!


    It is gatewayed to a mailing list.

    >
    > You and I get it via "net news" or whatever you'd like to call it. He,
    > evidently, receives it as e-mail. That works too.


  9. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    On 2008-07-27, David Woolley wrote:
    > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    >> David Woolley wrote:
    >>> Mark wrote:> Hello,
    >>>>
    >>>> I'm new to this list. Thanks for reading this. I hope, with your help,
    >>>
    >>> Actually its a newsgroup.

    >>
    >> It's also a mailing list!

    >
    > It is gatewayed to a mailing list.


    What, exactly, does this have to do with the OP's question?

    --
    Steve Kostecke
    NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

  10. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    Steve Kostecke wrote:
    > On 2008-07-27, David Woolley wrote:
    >> Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    >>> David Woolley wrote:
    >>>> Mark wrote:> Hello,
    >>>>> I'm new to this list. Thanks for reading this. I hope, with your help,
    >>>> Actually its a newsgroup.
    >>> It's also a mailing list!

    >> It is gatewayed to a mailing list.

    >
    > What, exactly, does this have to do with the OP's question?
    >


    He had a question? It seems to have been trimmed somewhere along the way!

  11. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

    >> What, exactly, does this have to do with the OP's question?
    >>

    >
    > He had a question? It seems to have been trimmed somewhere along the way!


    The OP would like to write (S)NTP Software in a
    "natural language" style programming environment.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolut...mming_language)

    Some hairy probs get solved via razor ;-)
    uwe

  12. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    Mark wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I'm new to this list. Thanks for reading this. I hope, with your help,
    > I'll be able to make SNTP available to all Runtime Revolution developers
    > (http://www.runrev.com).
    >
    > Obviously, I would like to open a connection to an SNTP server and get
    > the time. I could use a command line tool, but I don't want to use any
    > existing tools for this. I want to read the time from a server, directly
    > from inside Revolution.
    >
    > I've had a quick look at
    > but I don't know
    > where to start. I believe, I should first try to get some kind of a
    > reply from a server, just to see that I can connect. Once I can do that,
    > I believe want to implement section 5 of the protocol, "SNTP Client
    > Operations".
    >
    > In pseudocode, I am doing someting like this:
    >
    > open a udp connection to
    > check for error


    Since UDP is a connectionless protocol, could you explain how you do that?

    > send some data to
    > check for error


    Rather than sending random data, don't you think it might work better if
    you sent a properly formatted NTP request packet?

    > read some data from
    > check for error and check data
    > close connection to

    UDP is a connectionless protocol!
    >



  13. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    In article
    ,
    Mark wrote:

    > Hello,
    >
    > I'm new to this list. Thanks for reading this. I hope, with your help,
    > I'll be able to make SNTP available to all Runtime Revolution developers
    > (http://www.runrev.com).
    >
    > Obviously, I would like to open a connection to an SNTP server and get
    > the time. I could use a command line tool, but I don't want to use any
    > existing tools for this. I want to read the time from a server, directly
    > from inside Revolution.
    >



    Hi people,

    Thanks for your replies, even if not too helpful. Especially the
    discussion about whether this is a list or not is quite fascinating.

    Some of the links you provided are useful. I'll check them out.

    Somewhere else, I have found a good perl script, which I'll port to
    Revolution.

    --
    Mark

    Economy-x-Talk
    Have your own custom software created
    http://economy-x-talk.com

  14. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    Mark writes:

    >In article
    >,
    > Mark wrote:


    >> Hello,
    >>
    >> I'm new to this list. Thanks for reading this. I hope, with your help,
    >> I'll be able to make SNTP available to all Runtime Revolution developers
    >> (http://www.runrev.com).
    >>
    >> Obviously, I would like to open a connection to an SNTP server and get
    >> the time. I could use a command line tool, but I don't want to use any
    >> existing tools for this. I want to read the time from a server, directly
    >> from inside Revolution.
    >>

    >


    >Hi people,


    >Thanks for your replies, even if not too helpful. Especially the
    >discussion about whether this is a list or not is quite fascinating.


    >Some of the links you provided are useful. I'll check them out.


    >Somewhere else, I have found a good perl script, which I'll port to
    >Revolution.



    You still have not told us what you are trying to do, and why.
    Sending out an ntp packet to a remote host and receiving back a reply to
    determine the time is easy. What do you want to do with that time? If you
    want to discipline your computer's clock there a loads of issues that need
    to be thought through and have been thought through in say ntpd. If you
    just want the remote time for some reason, then it is trivial.


  15. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    In article ,
    Unruh wrote:

    >
    >
    > You still have not told us what you are trying to do, and why.
    > Sending out an ntp packet to a remote host and receiving back a reply to
    > determine the time is easy. What do you want to do with that time? If you
    > want to discipline your computer's clock there a loads of issues that need
    > to be thought through and have been thought through in say ntpd. If you
    > just want the remote time for some reason, then it is trivial.



    Dear Unruh,

    I just needed something to get started with SNTP. Probably, sending a
    header and getting any kind of reply is sufficient. I have found
    something and now I'll see how far I can stretch it. Thanks for your
    reply.

    --
    Mark

    Economy-x-Talk
    Have your own custom software created
    http://economy-x-talk.com

  16. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    Mark writes:

    >In article ,
    > Unruh wrote:


    >>
    >>
    >> You still have not told us what you are trying to do, and why.
    >> Sending out an ntp packet to a remote host and receiving back a reply to
    >> determine the time is easy. What do you want to do with that time? If you
    >> want to discipline your computer's clock there a loads of issues that need
    >> to be thought through and have been thought through in say ntpd. If you
    >> just want the remote time for some reason, then it is trivial.



    >Dear Unruh,


    >I just needed something to get started with SNTP. Probably, sending a
    >header and getting any kind of reply is sufficient. I have found
    >something and now I'll see how far I can stretch it. Thanks for your
    >reply.


    SNTP includes the whole protocol of disciplining the local clock as well as
    geting the information from the remote server. I have no idea why you want
    a clock discipline routine in Revolution. It does not belong there.
    But you might want to get the remote time for some reason.


  17. Re: Writing an SNTP script for RuntimeRevolution

    Steve Kostecke wrote:
    > On 2008-07-27, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    >
    >> See the lists of stratum 1 and stratum 2 public servers at http://ntp.org

    >
    > Public Time Server Lists shortcuts:
    >
    > Stratum 2 - http://support.ntp.org/s2
    > Stratum 1 - http://support.ntp.org/s1
    > Homepage - http://support.ntp.org/servers


    For something like this you should not be recommending the stratum 1 or
    2 servers. There are two many restrictions on stratum 1 and 2 servers
    for general use. See the rules of engagement. You should be pointing to
    the pool servers at pool.ntp.org or their country specific domains.

    Danny

  18. Re: Writing an SNTP script for Runtime Revolution

    On 2008-08-10, Danny Mayer wrote:

    > Steve Kostecke wrote:
    >
    >> On 2008-07-27, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    >>
    >>> See the lists of stratum 1 and stratum 2 public servers at
    >>> http://ntp.org

    >>
    >> Public Time Server Lists shortcuts:

    >
    > For something like this you


    you == ?

    > should not be recommending the stratum 1 or 2 servers. There are two
    > many restrictions on stratum 1 and 2 servers for general use. See the
    > rules of engagement. You should be pointing to the pool servers at
    > pool.ntp.org or their country specific domains.


    http://support.ntp.org/pool
    http://www.pool.ntp.org/

    --
    Steve Kostecke
    NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

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